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  1. #1
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    Mountain biker retaliates against JCOS

    So one of my neighbors' daughter is working for Jefferson County Open Space trail crew this summer. Although under the guidance of her superiors, she is well versed in what is going on with the trail maintanence and mountain biker issues. At Meyer Ranch the other day, while working on a trail, a mountain biker rolls up and starts to curse, swear and yell at the trail crew for removing rocks. Although he's entitled to free speech, what he did next was not cool for any of us!

    He proceeds down the hill and slashes all the tires of the crew bus. Wow, that's giving us a great reputation.

    I spoke with her mom for a short while, although not a mountain biker, she says "Why don't they make biking only trails? I just don't get it!?"

    Be careful out there guys, I'd like to work on the idea of biking only trails without this type of publicity. But again, perhaps they'll start to get the message.

  2. #2
    Shread Ready
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    Wow, talk about taking it to the EXTREME.. Hehe. Oh well, I haven't even had a chance to check any of the FR trails out since I've been so busy. Heading up for some real MTB'ing this weekend at WP and Sol.

    I do like the idea of Bike only trails thou.

  3. #3
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    I think the idea of slashed JCOS tires and us ending up with our own trails is a bit of a non sequiter. I'm not sure which emoticon to use here, so choose your own.

  4. #4
    Yappy little dog!
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    [QUOTE=IndecentExposure
    Be careful out there guys, I'd like to work on the idea of biking only trails without this type of publicity. But again, perhaps they'll start to get the message.[/QUOTE]

    Not a good way to do it.

    Keep in mind there plenty of bike only trails (well, no hiker in their right mind would be caught in the burn) at Buffalo Creek. Though not necessarily Front Range, there are very few issues for MTBers.

  5. #5
    skillz to pay billz
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    thats not right, what an ass.

  6. #6
    zrm
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    Not good, childish crap like that can undo years of responsible peoples hard work. I'm usually OK with letting the little stuff slide but this person should be arrested and prosecuted. If I knew this person, and knew that they had vandalized someones property, I would strongly encourage them to turn them self in and make restitution. If they didn't do the right thing I would seriously consider turning them in.

  7. #7
    Medicine Wheel Guy
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    Idiot.

  8. #8
    percocet pioneer.
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    I'm glad you brought this up, but at the same time, the people on here are not the people who would ever disrespect the trail crew (at least I would like to think).

    Also, what kind of person do you have to be to slash someone's tires in the first place?!?!

  9. #9
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    I'm curious - what kind of knife do you use to slash bus tires? And also kind of scared to think about someone with that kind of temper keeping a knife in their car/ on their person...
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  10. #10
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    while on the topic of jcos trail crews and *****ing about their work...

    is it cool if i take a truckload of rocks from sourdough and dump them on a trail somewhere in jefferson county?

    some of my fingers are still numb from riding it saturday.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by nomit
    while on the topic of jcos trail crews and *****ing about their work...

    is it cool if i take a truckload of rocks from sourdough and dump them on a trail somewhere in jefferson county?

    some of my fingers are still numb from riding it saturday.
    NO!! Leave them there I love that trail!
    Ride Fast, Take Chances!

  12. #12
    skillz to pay billz
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    that would be a big waste of some currently well placed rocks

  13. #13
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    just one truckload.

    can't i have a 20 foot long break in between the 10 straight miles of wooded scree field?

  14. #14
    enlightened.
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    Um, no.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by nomit
    just one truckload.

    can't i have a 20 foot long break in between the 10 straight miles of wooded scree field?
    It has nothing to do with too many rocks.

    Just your bike having too little travel.


  16. #16
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    Cool-blue Rhythm

    yep, hence the reason for security...

    as a sweeping generalization here, "we" haven't made the best impression i'm afraid.

  17. #17
    t.i.t.s.ceo/FR amoeba rep
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    The sad part is Meyer Ranch had just enough rocks to keep it interesting and a challenge for newer riders or my kids for example.

    To that guy: one word karma
    I'm a cowboy on a steel horse i ride!

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  18. #18
    percocet pioneer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBR me!
    The sad part is Meyer Ranch had just enough rocks to keep it interesting and a challenge for newer riders or my kids for example.

    To that guy: one word karma
    hallelujah.

    next time he rides he's goin OTB, that is if he didn't get a couple flats on the way home from meyer ranch..

  19. #19
    post-ride specialist
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikergal
    NO!! Leave them there I love that trail!

    Since when did Need have anything to do with this?

  20. #20
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    i am having a hard time believing this story - not saying it didn't happen - how old is this girl? so -some dude is biking, yells at a trail crew, and then slashes their tires.....
    after i typed that i doubt this story even more.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by hungryhead
    i am having a hard time believing this story - not saying it didn't happen - how old is this girl? so -some dude is biking, yells at a trail crew, and then slashes their tires..... after i typed that i doubt this story even more.
    Glad I'm not the only one. Realizing there are a-hole bikers out there, and that it's certainly possible one of them did something this weird, stupid, and out of the blue, something doesn't ring entirely true to me either. Unless somebody saw this guy slashing the tires, it's a pretty huge leap to just automatically charge him as the criminal and look for no further information or answers.

    Then again, this is Jeffco, and this was a mountain biker, so at least we can take comfort in their consistency.

  22. #22
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    How can anyone believe that behaving like this...

    helps the mtbikers in the front range? if anything, this lives up to the negative stereotype that some already have about our user group.

    Whoever this was, (hoping he reads this forum!), was a complete jerk, his behavior was completely unacceptable. I am also concerned/disappointed about the work done on the trails, but yelling, especially swearing at, a high school/college age female worker is way out of line, add the destruction of property, this guy is a complete jerk.

    Thank you for putting a positive face on mtbikers on my local trial.
    If you are reading, and wish to discuss further, please IM me, I believe that you are in need of some trailside coaching.
    Last edited by btadlock; 07-31-2008 at 09:46 AM.
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  23. #23
    MK_
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbabuser
    I'm curious - what kind of knife do you use to slash bus tires? And also kind of scared to think about someone with that kind of temper keeping a knife in their car/ on their person...
    Good thing it wasn't that guy who packs heat in the camelbak. There could have been homicides.

    _MK

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by hungryhead
    i am having a hard time believing this story - not saying it didn't happen - how old is this girl? so -some dude is biking, yells at a trail crew, and then slashes their tires.....
    after i typed that i doubt this story even more.

    The story is true. This happened a couple weeks back (unless this is a second incident). Kim Frederick mentioned this to us before we did the mini-crew on Apex. It happened the same day. It was my understanding that the valve stems were pulled, I don't think the tires were slashed. Either way, the kids got overtime sitting around waiting for the second bus. So for those of you who were worried about taxpayer's dollars..........

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverstreak
    The story is true.
    So if the story is true someone must have actually SEEN the biker remove the stem valves? Why wasn't the person stopped?

    Not defending anyone or any action but it sounds circumstantial at best.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverstreak
    The story is true. This happened a couple weeks back (unless this is a second incident). Kim Frederick mentioned this to us before we did the mini-crew on Apex. It happened the same day. It was my understanding that the valve stems were pulled, I don't think the tires were slashed. Either way, the kids got overtime sitting around waiting for the second bus. So for those of you who were worried about taxpayer's dollars..........
    Well it's not true if valve stems were pulled and tires weren't slashed. Kinda paints a different picture, in my mind at least. Wrong undoubtedly, but nonetheless a different picture. And again one where no one saw who did it. I imagine the parking lot had quite a few visitors that day, and any person who was there could have pulled the stems. Including highschool kids who were there apparently in droves and not exactly heavily supervised.

    Overtime? I thought Jeffco said these were volunteers who weren't getting paid. Again, more confusion, rumormill, and automatic "blame the bikers" mentality. Can we as a user group not add to this phenomenon and reflexively blame cyclists for everything bad that happens in a Jeffco Park absent of facts? Just saying.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TVC15
    absent of facts.
    My thoughts as well.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jugdish
    My thoughts as well.

    So let's just pretend it never happened.....mountain bikers are perfect beings.

    This is why I didn't post this information when I learned of it.

    Have fun, I'm out.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverstreak
    So let's just pretend it never happened.....mountain bikers are perfect beings.
    No, not perfect by a long shot, but considered automatically and singly guilty for anything that goes wrong in a Jeffco park.

    But let's just pretend that's not happening.

  30. #30
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    Any chance we can get a heads up to where this crew might be working in the near future? I wouldn't mind going by and providing a different picture of the mountain biker community. I mean, the guy could certainly have stated his opposition to the type of work while understanding these kids are just working a summer job or volunteering (not clear on that point). Getting them on our side might be a better tact than being a dumba$$ and making them angry with us. Now even neutral encounters with mtbrs might seem confrontational to them. Bias is hard to undo.

    If you see a trail crew, stop and talk and let them know that we aren't that ugly stereotype that the tire-deflator presented. Maybe offer them something to snack on. That goes for anyone you meet on the trail, be an ambassadore. Most of the mtbrs I see do a great job of that. Not to point fingers but some of the race teams in the area need to focus on that. I'm tired of them not yielding ROW when I am SLOWLY pedaling uphill. I don't care what your target heart rate is, you are going to be training on the roads if you keep this up and I hate riding on the roads! Please don't flame me over this, I am expressing this based soley on my personal experiences and I didn't mention your team's name...

    Yes, I am assuming the story to be at least mostly true. Even if all he did was yell at the kids working out there it was wrong and gave a very negative image of us as a group.

  31. #31
    post-ride specialist
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    Quote Originally Posted by TVC15
    .... Can we as a user group not add to this phenomenon and reflexively blame cyclists for everything bad that happens in a Jeffco Park absent of facts? Just saying.
    What we need is a good old-fashioned PR campaign.

    I know... how 'bout if we adopt suits and ties as riding apparel. Then we'd be all respectable like.
    Since when did Need have anything to do with this?

  32. #32
    DWF
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    New Jefferson Country Ordinance 2.71.53: If you're a mountain biker, you're guilty.
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    Jefferson Country Ordinance 2.71.53: If you're a mountain biker, you're guilty.
    Tee-shirt ideas are just crawling out of the woodwork these days ...

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by icegeek
    What we need is a good old-fashioned PR campaign.

    I know... how 'bout if we adopt suits and ties as riding apparel. Then we'd be all respectable like.
    But we wouldn't look respectable, we'd just look like some creepy religious cult.

    Although, this might be worth doing just to see some of the suits you guys have left hanging in your closet from way back when.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverstreak
    The story is true. This happened a couple weeks back (unless this is a second incident). Kim Frederick mentioned this to us before we did the mini-crew on Apex. It happened the same day. It was my understanding that the valve stems were pulled, I don't think the tires were slashed. Either way, the kids got overtime sitting around waiting for the second bus. So for those of you who were worried about taxpayer's dollars..........
    So you say the kids got paid OT...how come nobody is questioning whether or not one of them pulled the stems to do just that...get OT pay? I don't doubt that the mtn. biker went off on the trail crew, it's an emotional issue, but seems just about the same leap of logic to blame one of the crew vs the biker for pulling the valve stems. It's just the crew member has motive. Maybe one of them is saving for a new Yeti and some OT pay would certainly help. :-)

    R

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverstreak
    So let's just pretend it never happened.....mountain bikers are perfect beings.

    This is why I didn't post this information when I learned of it.

    Have fun, I'm out.

    Haha, so because I would prefer facts before I believe something I read on the "internets" your feelings get hurt and your gonna go home, I'm sorry. Simply stated, just because some d!cktard goes off on a group doing trail work, then their bus gets vandalized doesnít necessarily mean that it was the same d!cktard who removed the stems. If there is some sort of actual evidence that the rider did this please inform me otherwise itís just circumstantial.

    Also, as I stated previously, Iím not condoning either the verbal bashing the guy gave them or the fact that the bus got vandalized regardless of who did it.

    By the way, Iím about the last person you need to inform that mountain bikers ARENíT perfect beings. Sorry about your feelings, have fun.
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  37. #37
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    The girl is in high school. Her context for the conversation was 'slashed', but regardless, they were flattened.

    As for the story true? Why would I lie about this? I know the parents of the daughter very well, and the Daughter also happens to be our baby-sitter. I'm on the phone a lot with Jeffco anyway, but I know Kim to some degree, and also know that my neighbor know's him and his family well.

    Valve stem, slash... call it what you want, but it happened. Silverstreak obviously chatted with Kim.

  38. #38
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    ...and by the way, from what I understand, they watched him do it from a far.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    New Jefferson Country Ordinance 2.71.53: If you're a mountain biker, you're guilty.

    LOL, I needed a good laugh.

  40. #40
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    It'd been too perfect if the guy w/ heat in his waterpack held up Mr. Tire Slasher till cops showed up

  41. #41
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    Maybe all the COMBA and MTBR members could pitch in and offer to pay for a new set of tires for the truck as a gesture of good faith?

    Yeah, I know it was just the valve stems. But still.

    I pledge $5...

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleTrail
    Maybe all the COMBA and MTBR members could pitch in and offer to pay for a new set of tires for the truck as a gesture of good faith?

    Yeah, I know it was just the valve stems. But still.

    I pledge $5...
    the only thing I don't like about that idea is the assumption of guilt, which I'm really getting effin' sick of. That said, better yet, let's put out a pickle jar at the COMBA meeting and people can put in their donations there.


  43. #43
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    I'm naive, childish and a little stupid and even I think this action is worthless and achieves nothing. What a D bag.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by TVC15
    the only thing I don't like about that idea is the assumption of guilt, which I'm really getting effin' sick of. That said, better yet, let's put out a pickle jar at the COMBA meeting and people can put in their donations there.

    Well, if they did see him do it, they were not assuming anything. This guy's actions will cause them to assume us all guilty in the future, though ...

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by jugdish
    Haha, so because I would prefer facts before I believe something I read on the "internets" your feelings get hurt and your gonna go home, I'm sorry. Simply stated, just because some d!cktard goes off on a group doing trail work, then their bus gets vandalized doesnít necessarily mean that it was the same d!cktard who removed the stems. If there is some sort of actual evidence that the rider did this please inform me otherwise itís just circumstantial.

    Also, as I stated previously, Iím not condoning either the verbal bashing the guy gave them or the fact that the bus got vandalized regardless of who did it.

    By the way, Iím about the last person you need to inform that mountain bikers ARENíT perfect beings. Sorry about your feelings, have fun.
    No feelings hurt, just tired of the recent trend of crapping all over informative posts. Someone tries to relay some information, and it immediately gets slammed, poo gets flung and it turns instantly into a multi page thread (like this one ) My last statements were sarcastic (maybe I should have used the correct smiley for better understanding), but the board has become a tedious read. It used to be a good place to get information, share stories and see some cool pics. Only one of those remain, and it's hard to sort from all the BS.

    I'm sorry I couldn't supply photographic, video and lie detector evidence to satisfy your needs. I was just trying to clarify what Kim reported to us the day that it happened. There is no reason, nor any intent to post mis-information about what happened. If you believe bus incident was not related, so be it. All I know is what I was told by the people that were there. IE is reporting the same thing.

    For the record, I have never heard anything negative from any mountain biker while I've been doing trail work. Everyone has been kind and most usually say 'thank you'. Whoever this person was would probably not pull the same stunt in front of a group of adult trail workers. Just some idiot that knew he could harass the kids and get away with it. Pretty sad.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailgirl
    Well, if they did see him do it, they were not assuming anything. This guy's actions will cause them to assume us all guilty in the future, though ...
    Exactly. I listen to it all day long. Every user group is stereotyped. Doesn't matter who they are. It's just human nature. We all do it.

    And it is an admission of guilt. It's also accepting responsibility for the actions of a local MTB'r, who obviously lives in the area as indicated by his familiarity with the trail.

    To put it simply. Right now the hikers and equestrian users sit at the adult table, and the MTB's sit at the kids table. We need to learn to police our own and take care of issues like this. Someone knows who did this and they need to say something. At the very least the person who did this should anonymously pay for the vandalism damage and offer a public letter of apology for the verbal harassment.


    UT

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailgirl
    Well, if they did see him do it, they were not assuming anything. This guy's actions will cause them to assume us all guilty in the future, though ...
    Well if you haven't noticed, there's a lot of "ifs." If he did it, if they saw him do it, if the tires were slashed, if the stems were just removed, if the highschoolers were volunteers, if they were paid, and if they got overtime due to this boneheaded act.

    Uncle Trail, agreed, the phuckhead who did this, whoever he or she is, whatever his or her motives were, and whichever outdoor recreation he or she prefers to persue while enjoying Jeffco Parks should pony-up to pay and apologize for the damage done. My point is that people are just too damn comfy elaborating so far past known facts to the point of making up fricking stories in their head based mostly on their own biases, and equally comfy telling these tales as facts to everyone within earshot; and everyone, including bikers are immediately willing to damn the bikers. It's becoming really tiresome.

    If everyone on this forum and Jeffco will get a warm fuzzy that a bunch of completely unrelated mountainbikers pony up a few hundred bucks to pay for whoever's sin this was, I'm in and will happily put in more than my fair share. I'm just not so willing to assume so many details, much less re-tell them as facts. I'm sorry this kind of rumormilling gets my ire up, but it does.
    Last edited by TVC15; 07-31-2008 at 10:04 PM.

  48. #48
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    What an epic jackass.

    Is there any possible way it was an equestrian trail user in cognito trying to make mountain bikers look worse? Because I don't want to be categorized with THAT loser. Aside from everything else, I'm apalled that some loser riding Meyer's Ranch is going to be the poster boy for idiot Mountain Bike behavoir.

    I mean... Meyer's RANCH?! At least he could grow a pair and ride a real trail that's more than a 2 mile baby stroller loop before making us all look bad. Can we all just agree that this guy had toe clips and was mouth breathing before leaving the parking lot? At least pretend?

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleTrail
    Every user group is stereotyped.
    Totally. I mean we all poop on the trail but only the horses get blamed.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by TVC15
    Well if you haven't noticed, there's a lot of "ifs." If he did it, if they saw him do it, if the tires were slashed, if the stems were just removed, if the highschoolers were volunteers, if they were paid, and if they got overtime due to this boneheaded act.
    You got a guy you've probably shared a beer with saying below:

    Quote Originally Posted by IndecentExposure
    ...and by the way, from what I understand, they watched him do it from a far.
    *shrug*...that's about as close as it's going to come to an announcement of fact in an online forum. Only thing that probably has more information is the police report that I assume was taken...not that we'll ever see it.

    Next time, maybe one of those "punk" kids will have a video cell phone on them and get the evidence uploaded to utube within 15 minutes of occurrence.....

    Regardless...we got a perception problem, valid or not...I'm digging through the closet now to find that suit...hope it still fits.

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