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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomP View Post
    As Robert said,

    "Intemann Trail. Goes all the way to Manitou and pops out on Ruxton right behind one of the famous springs. Runs right into a fence about 2/3 of the way there."

    Right. And the land owner ended up in jail after getting into a fist fight
    with a City Councilman who was trespassing.

    And there is a way to address this. When property is subdivided the
    landowner is required to either dedicate a percentage of land to parks or
    pay parks development fees to the gov.

    So the trail was put into a master plan and when the landowner came in to
    subdivide the land, parks asked for the trail easement in exchange for
    reduced parks development fees.

    I believe that section is open now or will be soon? I think they close in 2013 on the remaining land purchases.


    Quote Originally Posted by TomP View Post
    There's a cool March-November route up through BLM into USFS land west of 285 here in Chaffeeville, Droney Gulch. Used to be you could do a nice big dirt road loop up Droney and down 250/252. Now the private land owner up at the top of Droney has locked a gate. Tyranny.
    Tyranny? lol

    Yeah that happens. Ignorance. Don't know what to tell you. Maybe give the
    landowner a call and see what he says? Pointing guns at people is
    pretty dumb IHMO. Like I said he'll end up dead or in jail.

    Has anyone ever explained the Colorado Recreational Use Statute to him?
    It protects him from some liability.

    Maybe he's just pissed that someone left the gate open and his cows got out?

    What about all that land around Cascade/Gr Mtn Falls and Chipita Park?
    I know one landowner who owns a lot of land on both sides of Hwy 24,
    with lots and lots of trails that people have used for years. Yet he goes in
    and rebuilds the trails on his own dime and allows the public to use them.

    Heiser, I believe a portion of Severy Creek, Pyramid Mtn, Ute Indian Trail, all
    partially on private property, yet no one is standing there with a gun.

    One property owner on the east side of the Ute Indian Trail didn't
    want to grant an easement, but said it was ok for people to use the trail.
    Just didn't want the formality of it all. I guess the liability didn't concern
    him. But the trail was there, and people use it.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleTrail View Post
    ...


    Code of the West[/FONT]
    The Code of the West


    ...
    Man that is such crzp.

    The cowmen didn't "make a new frontier." The govt. had already been through, killed all the previous occupants at great moral and material cost, before the cowmen could use the entire middle of the country for free to transport their product to northern markets.

    And when the cowmen started running herds north there were already white farmers settled along much of the route, so there was a lot of conflict and violence over land use between groups and within groups.

    Incessant complaining about the govt. out of one mouth, and sucking off the govt. teet with the other. That's the real Code of the West.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertHurst View Post
    Man that is such crzp.

    The cowmen didn't "make a new frontier." The govt. had already been through, killed all the previous occupants at great moral and material cost, before the cowmen could use the entire middle of the country for free to transport their product to northern markets.

    And when the cowmen started running herds north there were already white farmers settled along much of the route, so there was a lot of conflict and violence over land use between groups and within groups.

    Incessant complaining about the govt. out of one mouth, and sucking off the govt. teet with the other. That's the real Code of the West.
    LOL I'm sure more government will solve any problem.

    My coworker sent this to me today. Figures it's a MTb'er who pushed the button... he needed more drama...


  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleTrail View Post
    ...
    Tyranny? lol
    ...
    Listen man, I used the word Tyranny to make a point--to you anything that the government does to limit your freedom is tyranny, but a private land owner can do no wrong.

    BS. Sometimes what private land owners do is downright offensive.

    Plenty of them will be nasty to you even if you stumble onto their property by accident, and even if you were just having a good time.

    You paint a very biased idyllic picture of land owners and a very biased ugly picture of what government does.

    All I'm saying is, I see through it. It's not black and white as you would have us believe.
    Tom Purvis - Salida, CO - http://teamvelveeta.tom-purvis.com

    "I like my wimmen like I like my beer--cold and bitter!"

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleTrail View Post
    LOL I'm sure more government will solve any problem.

    ...
    "We don't need more government, we just need better government." -- Mitt Obomney

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntiPavement View Post
    I'm pretty sure in the National Forest the trail has to specifically state that motos are allowed on that trail for them to go on that specific trail. For mountain biking it has to specifically state that mountain bikes are not allowed on that trail, if it has no mention of mountain bikes then mountain biking is fair game. If someone decides to shoot up a "No Motorized Vehicle" sign and you can't read it anymore it is still off limits to motos.
    Correct. As of 2005, with USFS land anything not specifically signed as open to moto use (and marked on the MVUM) is considered closed. The inverse is true for hikers/horses/mtbs.

    Quote Originally Posted by unc-76 View Post
    I'm not inherently anti-moto either...the reason I started the thread is that I had heard the trail I was riding was somewhat sensitive but that the forest service was not inclined to make a fuss about it if it didn't become a big thing. Some of the trails actually appear on maps but definitely got their start as "social trails" and certainly aren't designated. I put the question (about calling the Forest Service) out to the community because the trail really isn't in my back yard (don't really know the history/situation) and I didn't feel right stepping in with out consultation. My understanding is that the FS has been notified(by someone else) and that they(the FS) passed enforcement off to the local PD.
    I think the goal for the MTB community is that someday this trail system will be officially designated as open to bicycles but that there is basically no chance that motos will be allowed due to some issues with the neighboring land owners(other gov't agencies). Pretty sure that motos using the trail won't help the cause as the FS is pretty strapped for the resources necessary to manage the area for recreation as it is.
    One thing to consider.. The chances of a ranger or PD actually catching even a semi-skilled enduro rider in the woods is nearly zero unless they stop voluntarily. You ever notice how a perfectly clean enduro bike still has a muddy license plate?

    The only effective (and cost effective) way to stop them is typically to bed down a significant amount of the trail (or at least the access points). So, if the trail is not a fully legitimate route and it actually sits in an area where the USFS may care about enforcement (either because it's sensitive or because of constant complaints) there's a good chance they'll close it in typical fashion by dozering the access points and dropping trees across the rest. The irony being that now you'll have the trail closed for everyone with 10x more land damage from USFS operations than a decade of moto poaching would have done.

    Food for thought.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomP View Post
    You paint a very biased idyllic picture of land owners and a very biased ugly picture of what government does.

    All I'm saying is, I see through it. It's not black and white as you would have us believe.

    I'm sorry but IMHO that's not tyranny, it's ignorance. I find it amusing that
    someone would do that. He's being dumb and he'll pay for it.

    You're free to think of me as you wish, I disagree with your assessment of
    my beliefs about land ownership and government, but I don't think any less
    of you for it or your own beliefs. We all have our opinions.

    Hell, I've got Doug Bruce calling me a Socialist and you guys calling me a
    ultra-Libertarian. Reality is I'm somewhere in between. I'm good with that.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntiPavement View Post
    I'm pretty sure in the National Forest the trail has to specifically state that motos are allowed on that trail for them to go on that specific trail. For mountain biking it has to specifically state that mountain bikes are not allowed on that trail, if it has no mention of mountain bikes then mountain biking is fair game. If someone decides to shoot up a "No Motorized Vehicle" sign and you can't read it anymore it is still off limits to motos.
    For all trails it's "closed unless designated open".

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertHurst View Post
    I don't know about the camping ban but maybe it has something to do with transient squatters getting murdered with baseball bats a few steps from the Burro Trail.

    If everybody used the land any way they wanted, without restriction, there would be no trees, the barren land would be covered with squatter camps,
    You are showing your complete ignorance and stupidity.

    I spent a few years as you like to call it "squatting" Greatest years of my life, living in tents on the edge of town, living in broken down trailers I just moved into, and cabins that used to be around town. (ie bulldozed by the town of breck recently)

    I had the greatest time in my life riding my bike day in and out and skiing the other half of the year.

    I suppose I'm less than you for being a "homeless" at one point in my life.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by zrm View Post

    Blair Witch was never a moto trial. Blair Witch is no more than 10 years old. The whole Horseshoe gulch/Soda Creek area has been closed to motor vehicle use for more than 20 years.

    Sorry, but I'm pretty sure blair witch is more than ten years old.

    It sucked back then and it sucks now one of the lamest trails around.

    I know plenty of people who rode motos and snowmobiles out there up until 2000-2002. If your head is in your azz then you might not know what is going on around you sometimes.

    BY THE WAY? It's ok to build huge hotels "or huts" out in the middle of nowhere, it's ok to build trails to access them with off road vehicals, do you know how many ribbons I took down on the north side of baldy? It's ok to fly helicopter load after load to supply these hotels way out in the middle of no where.

    Yet motos are evil?

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripper roo View Post
    You are showing your complete ignorance and stupidity.

    I spent a few years as you like to call it "squatting" Greatest years of my life, living in tents on the edge of town, living in broken down trailers I just moved into, and cabins that used to be around town. (ie bulldozed by the town of breck recently)

    I had the greatest time in my life riding my bike day in and out and skiing the other half of the year.

    I suppose I'm less than you for being a "homeless" at one point in my life.
    If you camped or lived in cabins before the B&B land purchase up French Gulch or the Swan you were probably on B&B land. There are some cabins further up the forks of th Swan that are on private property other than B&B that were/are inhabitable. The people who lived in cabins on B&B property paid rent to B&B. B&B did not want people camping on their property and a lot of it was posted. Most of the inhabitable cabins on Baldy or on the south Ten Mile were/are on private property. Some people still live in the cabins on private, either they own the property, or live with permission of the property owners.

    The FS and Summit County and Town of Breckenridge for a lot of reasons, most of them very good, have always taken the position that they are not in the business of being landlords. There is talk of keeping some of the remaining cabins in good enough shape to act as day use shelters/historic interpretation sites but there are a lot of issues to be worked out for that to happen.

    Camping has never been legal on open space properties. You can camp for up to two weeks at any given place on FS land unless designated otherwise.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripper roo View Post
    You are showing your complete ignorance and stupidity.

    I spent a few years as you like to call it "squatting" Greatest years of my life, living in tents on the edge of town, living in broken down trailers I just moved into, and cabins that used to be around town. (ie bulldozed by the town of breck recently)

    I had the greatest time in my life riding my bike day in and out and skiing the other half of the year.

    I suppose I'm less than you for being a "homeless" at one point in my life.
    No you are better because you are hardcore.

    Where'd you park the 4Runner?

  13. #63
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    Jesus rode a dirt bike in breckenridge before the resort was even there. It's in the bro version of the bible.
    99% of the problems and questions posted here would be answered if people actually walked into a bicycle shop and asked

  14. #64
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    Every year they try to close down my favorite trail and every spring it gets reopened. This will continue on and on until thousands of tax dollars are spent to keep people from using public land. The town is pushing motos out of one section of land and now trails are being made further away on another parcel. It's kind of funny in a way.

    On the other hand I've seen motos on the ski hill, I've seen motos on trails marked no motorized use. Do I call someone and cry? No. Do I stop them in the middle of the trail and start telling them they are breaking the law? No. I wave and smile hoping their having as much fun as I am.

    Started thinking about how I used to ride into wilderness areas at night. Talk about fun.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripper roo View Post
    Started thinking about how I used to ride into wilderness areas at night. Talk about fun.
    Really? I'm holding out some small hope that you're joking.

    Way to represent.

  16. #66
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    He lives in a car, what do you expect.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripper roo View Post
    Started thinking about how I used to ride into wilderness areas at night. Talk about fun.
    Wow, you don't just stir the pot. You crap in it, stir it in, then kick it over.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottap2003 View Post
    Wow, you don't just stir the pot. You crap in it, stir it in, then kick it over.
    Monsier Ripperoo:

  19. #69
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    Ripperroo is just crabby because there is no snow in summit to cover his dog's poo
    99% of the problems and questions posted here would be answered if people actually walked into a bicycle shop and asked

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by thump View Post
    Really? I'm holding out some small hope that you're joking.

    Way to represent.

    Wait till the drug cartels start moving in next summer. I think he and a lot of
    other people will be thinking twice before venturing out into the wilderness
    after dark.

  21. #71
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    Most of these issues boil down to catering to the least common denominator.

    A few selfish people tear the phuk out of a hill, so we close it for all.
    Left turn arrows at every intersection.
    Need an ID and signature to buy decongestants.
    No soda refills in NY
    etc


    You dont want the nanny state, you want yur freedumz... learn how to act responsibly.

    Laws are based on what the stupidist person would do in a given situation.
    Thanks, you fvcking morans.
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripper roo View Post
    I had the greatest time in my life riding my bike day in and out and skiing the other half of the year.

    I suppose I'm less than you for being a "homeless" at one point in my life.


    I work with some homeless folks, they don't spend their day biking and skiing. You may have been squatting but you sure as hell weren't homeless the way society defines it. You are showing your complete ignorance and stupidity but do sound hard core, brah.
    Gone are the days we stopped to decide,
    Where we should go,
    We just ride...

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by WKD-RDR View Post
    You dont want the nanny state, you want yur freedumz... learn how to act responsibly.

    Laws are based on what the stupidist person would do in a given situation.
    Thanks, you fvcking morans.
    This might be the most intelligent thing I have seen on The Internet in months.

    Must spread rep...
    You have just been mentally Rick Roll'd. Yup you're thinking about it right now aren't you? Don't fight it.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithnu View Post
    Must spread rep...
    ^ That.

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    TORE IT UP BRO.

    I don't know the trail name but it's across the highway in frisco goes up into the gore range. Rode out from tarmagin out towards ute pass alot. The trail was better for riding. Being a kid was a blast. If I could just stay up past 9pm I'd still do that kind of stuff.

    If you know how to get vhs tape onto a computer I'll show you the video.

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