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  1. #1
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    New question here. Maverick ML8 vs Santa Cruz Nomad

    Ok, so i am ready to get a freeride/am bike. Want a build up under or as close to 30lbs as possible. I have narrowed it down to an ML8 and a Nomad. I like the build options better that come with the ML8. If i got a nomad i would probably build it frame up with a fox dhx air and a 36 talas 1.5 steerer. along with xo grupo and hadley hubs/ 823 rims.

    Help me decide please. I am leaning more towards the Nomad, but everyone seems to have pretty big boners over their ML8's. A plus is that I live in boulder and could get shock service pretty easily but fox stuff is pretty easy to service on my own i suppose. Thanks

  2. #2
    Your retarded
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    Personally, I'd say it's up to you.
    A trail thatís too difficult wouldnít exist because itíd never be used. But, trails can exist thatíre too difficult for you.

  3. #3
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    See if there is anywhere you can testride each one before you buy it.
    Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder

  4. #4
    Goofing off?
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    Test drive them both. Here is a link to Mav (which you probably already saw) with a video about the monolink system they have.

    http://www.maverickbike.com/main/do/Monolink_Technology

  5. #5
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    Mav might be ok, but I wouldn't buy a Taiwanese made frame at that price.
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  6. #6
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    gonna demo for sure. in mexico till may so i wanted some opinions first cause i cant stop thinking about what im going to get

  7. #7
    holding back the darkness
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    Don't discount those little tai kids... They can weld pretty good for only being 10 yrs old and paid a buck a day.
    **** censorship

  8. #8
    Your retarded
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    You may have purchased an American made frame, but every other component on the bike is foreign.
    A trail thatís too difficult wouldnít exist because itíd never be used. But, trails can exist thatíre too difficult for you.

  9. #9
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    April foolz was yesterday!!!

    The mavericks are maintinence nightmares. They can't even touch the Nomad on the DH. Mavericks suspension was designed to be a good uphiller NOT and DH/FR bike.

    If I were you and wanted a true DH/FR trail worthy bike I wouldn't even look at the maverick.

    NOMAD all the way.

    my .02

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickle
    You may have purchased an American made frame, but every other component on the bike is foreign.

    I don't have anything against products made in Taiwan, my issue is with companies who charge a premium for them... especially companies who started in the USA (Maverick AMERICAN), and then don't reduce their prices when they outsource. Apparently they dropped the "American" from their name, but they didn't drop their prices.
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  11. #11
    Inflexable...
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    If we are going to buy American aren't we pretty much limited to beer and prostitutes?


    Not knowing anything about the ML8 I guess the correct choice would be Nomad. Of course, riding one does make me biased...
    Tact is for people not witty enough to be sarcastic...

  12. #12
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    Nomad!!!

  13. #13
    percocet pioneer.
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    shouldn't be any question in your mind, go for the nomad..

  14. #14
    DWF
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    Where's the Nonad made again?
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    Where's the Nonad made again?
    I think its made by a Swedish company in Portland... SAPA?
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  16. #16
    formerly shabadu
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    My reco for what you're looking for would be the Nomad.
    That said, Mike West was crushing Semi Pro DH last year on a ML8 with a Boxxer then a 40 up front. So those bikes do seem to go downhill just fine, under a very accomplished Pro XC rider.
    Ariel Lindsley was doing it the year before.
    Both guys worked/raced for Maverick and probably had some special sauce in the r. suspension, but the bikes seemed to work well for them at speed.
    The Nomad is going to be better for a bit of hucking, and a 36 pwns DUC32.

  17. #17
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    I'd get the Nomad. I'm sure Mavericks are a lot of fun to ride, but I find the company's willful snubbing of industry standards annoying rather than charming.

  18. #18
    DWF
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    Quote Originally Posted by davec113
    I think its made by a Swedish company in Portland... SAPA?
    Are you surRrrrre?.....
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  19. #19
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    Regardless of where they're made, and I believe both the Nomad and the ML8 get here on the same boat, there is something to be said about supporting local business. Ultimately, you'll see at least some of those greenbacks spent back in Colorado (you don't hate Yeti, do you?).

    But the decision ought to ultimately be based on how the bike rides. Geometry wise, they ought to produce about the same numbers given same forks. The ML8 will have a slightly shorter chainstay and will produce less pedal kickback on the bumps. On the flip side, your whole BB moves on the bumps and that may take some getting used to. Certainly you should demo both.

    _MK

    P.S. hairylegs' comment about their willful snubbing of the industry standards is funny and pretty much spot on.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    Are you surRrrrre?.....
    Turners and SC VPP bikes are made there:

    http://www.sapagroup.com/us/Company-...a-Bike-Frames/

    MK, you are wrong, they don't come over "on the same boat".

    Edit: the Nomad, V10 and Stigmata are made @ sapa. I heard Turners are made there directly from DT himself...
    Last edited by davec113; 04-02-2008 at 04:00 PM.
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  21. #21
    Your retarded
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    Something tells me that going head to head with DWF regarding the bicycle industry might be poorly executed move.
    A trail thatís too difficult wouldnít exist because itíd never be used. But, trails can exist thatíre too difficult for you.

  22. #22
    DWF
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickle
    Something tells me that going head to head with DWF regarding the bicycle industry might be poorly executed move.
    I honestly don't know. I've heard that they shifted them overseas, but I don't know if for fact. I would "like" to know, however.
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  23. #23
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    gonna demo for sure but almost positive that i will get a nomad. want to come in under 30 lbs on a large frame. is this possible. put a post up in the santa cruz section with this same question and my parts list so far

  24. #24
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    That might be possible, but it's awfully aggressive. If you are looking for a "freeride/am bike," why are you trying to get sub 30 lbs? Do you want to replace components often? I'd consider sacrificing some weight for more performance.
    A trail thatís too difficult wouldnít exist because itíd never be used. But, trails can exist thatíre too difficult for you.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by davec113
    Turners and SC VPP bikes are made there:

    http://www.sapagroup.com/us/Company-...a-Bike-Frames/

    MK, you are wrong, they don't come over "on the same boat".
    Where does it say that on their site? I can't find it.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    I honestly don't know. I've heard that they shifted them overseas, but I don't know if for fact. I would "like" to know, however.
    I would too if that is the case. This is info I researched last year.

    The Bullit and Heckler are def. made in Taiwan.

    Edit: they did shift some production of VPP bikes overseas. SAPA currently makes the Nomad, V-10 and Stigmata (a road bike). 2 minutes on the phone with SC tech cleared it up. I didn't ask which overseas company makes the rest...
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by davec113
    <snip> I didn't ask which overseas company makes the rest...
    Giant?

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by davec113
    I would too if that is the case. This is info I researched last year.

    The Bullit and Heckler are def. made in Taiwan.

    Edit: they did shift some production of VPP bikes overseas. SAPA currently makes the Nomad, V-10 and Stigmata (a road bike). 2 minutes on the phone with SC tech cleared it up. I didn't ask which overseas company makes the rest...
    Make sense that their higher production stuff is farmed out overseas and their lower production stuff is made by SAPA.

    Based on this new information, I recommend getting the Delirium.
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  29. #29
    Shoulda went faster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickle
    That might be possible, but it's awfully aggressive. If you are looking for a "freeride/am bike," why are you trying to get sub 30 lbs? Do you want to replace components often? I'd consider sacrificing some weight for more performance.
    Hey mine is around 31. It's been pretty sturdy so far... other than that pedal thing!

    As far as where they are made......Here is a snippet from a thread in the Santa Cruz forum:

    below is an email from Santa Cruz that was posted in the thread.

    Email received from Santa Cruz this morning:

    Hi Ryan,
    All of the design work and prototyping of all Santa Cruz frames is done here in Santa Cruz, for tubing fabrication and welding production we use vendors, then back to Santa Cruz for inspection, finishing, and assembly before shipping out to dealers and distributors.

    The current Nomad, Blur-4X, VP-Free, Stigmata, and V10 frames are made in the USA.
    *Labeled - Made in the USA

    The current Juliana SL, Superlight, Heckler, Bullit, Blur-LT, Blur-XC, Jackal and Chameleon frames are for the most part made in Taiwan with the QC/final inspection, powdercoating, assembly, etc. done here in Santa Cruz, California.
    *Labeled * Made in Taiwan

    Thanks for your interest in Santa Cruz, and let me know if you have any other questions.

    Scott Turner - Santa Cruz Bicycles
    Santa Cruz, California
    scott@santacruzbicycles.com
    www.santacruzbicycles.com

  30. #30
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    sweet thats cool to know

  31. #31
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    Bummer about your choices....

    .....was the handle 'Hucknorris' already taken?

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickle
    That might be possible, but it's awfully aggressive. If you are looking for a "freeride/am bike," why are you trying to get sub 30 lbs? Do you want to replace components often? I'd consider sacrificing some weight for more performance.
    Some of us are "normal" size and a 31# Nomad feels and performs right.
    Tact is for people not witty enough to be sarcastic...

  33. #33
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    awww wish i had thought of that. I wouldn't want to upset Mr. Norris by Euphamizing his name in such a manner. No one can ride faster than Chuck Norris can walk!

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by chucknorris
    awww wish i had thought of that. I wouldn't want to upset Mr. Norris by Euphamizing his name in such a manner. No one can ride faster than Chuck Norris can walk!
    I don't idolize Chuck Norris, so I wouldn't know.

    I bet that name is available.

  35. #35
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    Real riders ride a Karate Monkey 29er.


  36. #36
    skillz to pay billz
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    +1.....for registering the user name
    Last edited by nOOby; 04-02-2008 at 07:18 PM.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huck Norris
    Real riders ride a Karate Monkey 29er.


    Nice Cross bike. Let us know when you actually ride something technical with those silly road bars.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by TIMBERRR
    Nice Cross bike. Let us know when you actually ride something technical with those silly road bars.

    +2. The tool who equates 29" wheels with any kind of suspension has either:

    A. Never ridden any type of FS, or

    B. Never actually ridden on dirt.
    Now with more vitriol!

  39. #39
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    Are you guys are totally missing the martial arts ref?

  40. #40
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    I get the Karate=Chuck norris stuff. I just think those road bars are goofy.

    Also 29ers should have only one speed. Then it would be worthy of Chuck Norris.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by nOOby
    Are you guys are totally missing the martial arts ref?
    No way - I wish I would have thought of "Huck Norris" - I was just seizing the opportunity to flush the kool aide drinkers from among our ranks. I feel like I've earned the right, having put a few miles on my own (non - "kiddie wheeled" bike) recently.


    I think I prefer my kiddie wheels, thank you. I can't shake the feeling that I'm way the hell up in the air every time I dive into a corner.
    Now with more vitriol!

  42. #42
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    copied this from the santa cruz website. does anyone else find this funny?
    "Make sure you always have it inserted a minimum of 4Ē (100mm)."

  43. #43
    formerly shabadu
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    I'll admit, I did a double take in the parking lot when the Thunder Lizard rolled up on a SS 29er. Shorts were getting disturbingly close to knickers.

  44. #44
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    I think the roadie bars are on par since Chuck Norris is such a ghey Macho Dude.

  45. #45
    do-a-wheelie
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    ML8 has been scientifically proven to be be a faster bike than all others in the category. It's cool to chose another bike like a Nomad, as long as you know you'll be slower.

  46. #46
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    seems like if you're riding a 29er, the only way to look normal would be to wear long shorts


    kidding, sort of


    Quote Originally Posted by flowtron
    I'll admit, I did a double take in the parking lot when the Thunder Lizard rolled up on a SS 29er. Shorts were getting disturbingly close to knickers.
    Last edited by nOOby; 04-02-2008 at 09:03 PM.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by do-a-wheelie
    ML8 has been scientifically proven to be be a faster bike than all others in the category. It's cool to chose another bike like a Nomad, as long as you know you'll be slower.

    April foolz!!!! Day late.

  48. #48
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    What's also cool is to put a DUC fork on a Nomad. It reverses some of the slowness relative to the ML8. DUC's are faster lighter better, plus they look cool.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by do-a-wheelie
    What's also cool is to put a DUC fork on a Nomad. It reverses some of the slowness relative to the ML8. DUC's are faster lighter better, plus they look cool.
    Have you been sniffin GLUE?

    I have a bud that had one on his Nomad and it was way to steep. He is much happier now that it's gone.

    Faster=NO! Lighter= sure but it doesn't make it better. Asthetics=??? I guess you pop the collar on your POLO shirt too.


  50. #50
    do-a-wheelie
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    I almost forgot. Adding a Maverick Speedball will also make the bike faster. As it does to any bike it's added too. But after adding the Duc and the Speedball you might as well have bought the ML8. hmmmm. Tough choice between 2 good bikes. In the end I would choose the bike that makes you smile the most.

  51. #51
    DWF
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    Quote Originally Posted by TIMBERRR
    Have you been sniffin GLUE?

    I have a bud that had one on his Nomad and it was way to steep. He is much happier now that it's gone.

    Faster=NO! Lighter= sure but it doesn't make it better. Asthetics=??? I guess you pop the collar on your POLO shirt too.

    He misspoke and meant the single crown, not the DUC. Putting a SC32 on any Santa Cruz has the same effect as 29" tires, it's equivalent to at least 2-4 inches of suspension travel and will increase your speed by approximately 10%. This has been scientifically demonstrated in several peer reviewed publications. You can determine this for yourself by studying these references (make sure you review the footnote links in their entirety).

    http://ruina.tam.cornell.edu/researc..._and_links.htm

    http://www.tudelft.nl/live/pagina.js...fd2c2c&lang=en
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowtron
    I'll admit, I did a double take in the parking lot when the Thunder Lizard rolled up on a SS 29er. Shorts were getting disturbingly close to knickers.
    F'n shorts - I was in a hurry and they were the last pair in the shop - bah! "I can make XL work". I now have manpris
    Now with more vitriol!

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla
    F'n shorts - I was in a hurry and they were the last pair in the shop - bah! "I can make XL work". I now have manpris
    Coincidentally enough you've now just answered the question in this thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/colorado-front-range/denver-area-needs-freeride-trails-396862-2.html#post4268037

  54. #54
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    I had to thrown in my thoughts on Godzilla's 29er. We were going to ride DK last week and he said he'd be there on his single speed rigid 29er. I thought he was kidding until I saw him in the parking lot.

    On those curved bars on that other 29 remind me of my friend's bike yesterday. His regular bike is missing a fork, so he took his commuter to GM with me. When it got even a little steep he said he got freaked out because to hold those brakes you have to lean forward and its an awkward feeling.

    I wouldn't put out the Maverick technology until I tried it on a trail. Its a curious design, I'd like to try it actually.

  55. #55
    DWF
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithnu
    I had to thrown in my thoughts on Godzilla's 29er. We were going to ride DK last week and he said he'd be there on his single speed rigid 29er. I thought he was kidding until I saw him in the parking lot.
    Yeah, I'm so ashamed.....
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    Yeah, I'm so ashamed.....

    Don't hate the player, hate the frame.
    Now with more vitriol!

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla
    Don't hate the player, hate the frame.
    Sure, blame the frame. Your dependency is just the first layer to a more complex and deeply seeded problem.

    I've seen the personality changes, the lying, sneaky behavior, broken promises, financial stress, shame, and even violence of your addiction. At first I tried to rationalize your behavior. Inventing excuses, and focusing on other issues like your manpris while disassociating the true problem. Ignoring it will not make it go away!

    You're in denial and I, for one, will no longer enable your addiction.
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by chucknorris
    Ok, so i am ready to get a freeride/am bike. Want a build up under or as close to 30lbs as possible. I have narrowed it down to an ML8 and a Nomad. I like the build options better that come with the ML8. If i got a nomad i would probably build it frame up with a fox dhx air and a 36 talas 1.5 steerer. along with xo grupo and hadley hubs/ 823 rims.

    Help me decide please. I am leaning more towards the Nomad, but everyone seems to have pretty big boners over their ML8's. A plus is that I live in boulder and could get shock service pretty easily but fox stuff is pretty easy to service on my own i suppose. Thanks
    Nickle is right, it is personal choice. I've seen some pretty sweet builds out there on both bikes.

    That said, I have two SC Nomads. MY beef with the maverick is the strut. I like having the ability to go between any rear shock I'd like. It gives me options beyond what the 'one' strut has. I'm now running the DHX Air 5.0, but will upgrade to a coil over later this summer. I'm not a fan of having my BB move independently of the main triangle, you do feel more bumps through your legs. Lastly, I really like the uninterupted seatpost on the Nomad. I can raise and floor my seat a lot, allowing for safe DH and happy uphills.

    One of my Nomads has the configuration you seek, with the exception of the Talas (have a Van instead). Its light, like 30.5 lbs light.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by kchri
    Some of us are "normal" size and a 31# Nomad feels and performs right.
    LOL. That point is hard to argue.
    A trail thatís too difficult wouldnít exist because itíd never be used. But, trails can exist thatíre too difficult for you.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    Yeah, I'm so ashamed.....
    Why are you ashamed, its not like he's your kid...

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by do-a-wheelie
    ML8 has been scientifically proven to be be a faster bike than all others in the category. It's cool to chose another bike like a Nomad, as long as you know you'll be slower.
    bwaaa haa haa haaa haaaa..... what the hell does that mean?

    My Specialized Demo 8 is way faster (when put onto my car and shuttled to the top)... and its fast on the DH too (I just jump over the trail from the top to the bottom).

    So much for science..

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by do-a-wheelie
    What's also cool is to put a DUC fork on a Nomad. It reverses some of the slowness relative to the ML8. DUC's are faster lighter better, plus they look cool.
    How is a DUC faster?

    I just put one on my Nomad. I stood it up, and let go. It fell to the floor. Funny, though, I did the same with a Fox and a Marzocchi, they to cause my bike to fall over.

    Don't know if this is ground breaking news, but... its all about the engine.

    Besides, I don't care about fast... I like flow and reliability.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    Make sense that their higher production stuff is farmed out overseas and their lower production stuff is made by SAPA.

    Based on this new information, I recommend getting the Delirium.
    Giant makes the Jackal. All other rigid frames and their single pivots are made in Taiwan. I read an inteview with Rob Roskopp, which was undated and as of that the VPPs were made by Kinesis. Kinesis moved their production to Taiwan, so they probably switched to VPP.

    _MK

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndecentExposure
    bwaaa haa haa haaa haaaa..... what the hell does that mean?

    My Specialized Demo 8 is way faster (when put onto my car and shuttled to the top)... and its fast on the DH too (I just jump over the trail from the top to the bottom).

    So much for science..

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    You're in denial and I, for one, will no longer enable your addiction.
    You're dead to me - at least for the next 8 hours or so.
    Now with more vitriol!

  66. #66
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    Back on point, the ML8 suffers from a couple of differnt issues - all associated with the funky link. Since the strut/shock is a structural member of the frame, it's subject to more side loading than the average rear shock. I've seen a bunch of dampers blow on ML7s from being tossed around, landing sideways, etc. The jury's still out on the ML8. Also, because of the link's placement, you either have to run an Etype front der or the Mav setup with a road der on a stick. Both work ok but neither work as good as a traditional front der setup. On another note, does the ML8 use the same der hanger as the other Mavs? It's the weakest der hanger I've seen out there. You can look at them wrong and they'll bend. Seriously.

    I love the forks, though, but I'm not a hucker dude.
    Redstone Cyclery
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  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by ignazjr
    Back on point, the ML8 suffers from a couple of differnt issues - all associated with the funky link. Since the strut/shock is a structural member of the frame, it's subject to more side loading than the average rear shock. I've seen a bunch of dampers blow on ML7s from being tossed around, landing sideways, etc. The jury's still out on the ML8. Also, because of the link's placement, you either have to run an Etype front der or the Mav setup with a road der on a stick. Both work ok but neither work as good as a traditional front der setup. On another note, does the ML8 use the same der hanger as the other Mavs? It's the weakest der hanger I've seen out there. You can look at them wrong and they'll bend. Seriously.

    I love the forks, though, but I'm not a hucker dude.
    Hater!
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  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by ignazjr
    Since the strut/shock is a structural member of the frame, it's subject to more side loading than the average rear shock. I've seen a bunch of dampers blow on ML7s from being tossed around, landing sideways, etc.
    I always thought that looked like a sketchy design.
    Now with more vitriol!

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles
    Giant?
    Get the Nomad...just sold one to try this Ibis carbon thing, which is way cool. But if it dosen't work I will buy another nomad or maybe the new Blur LT2. The Nomad is a great all around bike if you keep it light enough.
    Just ride and quit bit$hin.......Yeti SB5+..SIR9 SS...CD Synapse DA...

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla
    I always thought that looked like a sketchy design.
    You should see my sketchy landings!

  71. #71
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    Dales couldn't be wrong. Go Maverick. There is no better all mountain bike that can perform well up and down. Last year was great when these weenies on big hit bikes on Porc. rim were riding the smooth stuff and I blasted by them on my 7.5 with the ever so big $hit eating grin and i was on the rough stuff. The same story at Hall. Plus being a local company it's easy to get service if ya need something in a jiffy. Blue sky cycles in Longmont knows these bikes inside and out and can really make the shocks perform amazing.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by dash
    Last year was great when these weenies on big hit bikes on Porc. rim were riding the smooth stuff and I blasted by them on my 7.5 with the ever so big $hit eating grin and i was on the rough stuff.
    The bike is a tool of the rider. The thing that so many fail to see is the rider has to pick the right tool. Just because I own a KitchenAide tilt head stand mixer with 14 speeds, doesn't mean I can cook.
    A trail thatís too difficult wouldnít exist because itíd never be used. But, trails can exist thatíre too difficult for you.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickle
    Just because I own a KitchenAide tilt head stand mixer with 14 speeds,
    I'm going to pretend like I didn't just see you refer to a kitchen appliance as a "KitchenAide tilt head stand mixer with 14 speeds". Repeat after me - "one of those mixer things", now go drink some PBR and scratch yourself until you get the testosterone levels within the acceptable range.
    Now with more vitriol!

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla
    ....now go drink some PBR and scratch yourself until you get the testosterone levels within the acceptable range.
    I can't... work policy explicitly says no to that kind of behavior. I will at least take off the apron.
    A trail thatís too difficult wouldnít exist because itíd never be used. But, trails can exist thatíre too difficult for you.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla
    I'm going to pretend like I didn't just see you refer to a kitchen appliance as a "KitchenAide tilt head stand mixer with 14 speeds". Repeat after me - "one of those mixer things", now go drink some PBR and scratch yourself until you get the testosterone levels within the acceptable range.
    Do you know what a duvet is?

    - A comforter.

    No, it's a blanket. Just a blanket. Why do guys like you and I know what a duvet is? Is this essential to our survival in the hunter-gatherer sense?

    - No.

    What are we, then?

    - I dunno. Consumers?

    Right. We're consumers. We are by-products of a lifestyle obsession. Murder, crime, poverty. These things don't concern me. What concerns me are celebrity magazines, television with 900 channels, some guy's name on my underwear. Rogaine. Viagra. Olestra.

    - Martha Stewart.

    Phuck Martha Stewart. She's polishing the brass on the Titanic. It's all going down. So phuck off with your sofa units and Strinne green stripe patterns. I say never be complete. I say stop being perfect. I say let's evolve. Let the chips fall where they may. But that's me, and I could be wrong. Maybe it's a terrible tragedy.

    - It's just stuff. Not a tragedy...

    You did lose a lot of versatile solutions for modern living.

    - Phuck, you're right. No thanks, I don't smoke. My insurance is probably gonna cover it, so...

    - What?

    The things you own end up owning you....
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  76. #76
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    Pffftt... that's a gimme. Fight Club.
    A trail thatís too difficult wouldnít exist because itíd never be used. But, trails can exist thatíre too difficult for you.

  77. #77
    DWF
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickle
    Pffftt... that's a gimme. Fight Club.
    It wasn't a test, yo. It was a statement.
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by dash
    Last year was great when these weenies on big hit bikes on Porc. rim were riding the smooth stuff and I blasted by them on my 7.5 with the ever so big $hit eating grin and i was on the rough stuff. The same story at Hall.
    All that proves is that you're good at bragging.
    .




    Strava: turn off your dork logger when you're not on sanctioned trails.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by davec113
    All that proves is that you're good at bragging.
    za little bit but thee bike is making my riding ambitions come true. FC guy says you are not the bike you ride but I am 1... Either or bike is probably going to work.

  80. #80
    how heavy are you ??
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    i havent ridden any of the OP...

    bikes that he wants to add to his stable. However Ventana and Turner need to be on the list ... they are made here and CS will be better than the rest of the bikes on the planet. But the way they look might not be what you are into? They are built right from the ground up. PERIOD. With the Monolink you are locked into a shock... not a great idea no matter how great it seems now. And I have heard of pivot issues with SC quite a bit... roll your dice and take your chances. Just a truck driver here. FWIW
    Scott

  81. #81
    do-a-wheelie
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    My wife's ML8 size large is 28.5lbs. That's w/ 2.35 tires, a speedball, a DUC, and no lightweight/carbon other goodies. If that's not long travel bliss, I don't know what is. Flex free, bob free, lightweight fun. The Santa Cruz frame is a full pound heavier than the ML8, and when you add a non-DUC 6" fork that is usually 5 lbs as opposed to the 4lbs DUC. My wife's same build on a Santa Cruz would be 30.5 lbs. Not bad, but not sub 30 either. Both bikes descend and handle great, but I give the nod to the Maverick on pedaling and weight. There is such a thing as a no-compromise long travel trail bike, and it's called the ML8.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by do-a-wheelie
    There is such a thing as a no-compromise long travel trail bike, and it's called the ML8.
    You should get a job with Ib*ex
    .




    Strava: turn off your dork logger when you're not on sanctioned trails.

  83. #83
    do-a-wheelie
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    I'm thinking I need a job that let's me ride more. Perhaps I should go into bicycle marketing. I hear there's good money and loads of time to ride in it.

  84. #84
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    To continue the derailed discussion of US/Asian made:
    (an Xpost from the Turner forum)

    Here's a link to an article in the NY Times titled "Inflation in Asia Begins to Sting U.S. Consumers"

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/08/bu...&hp&oref=login

    For those unwilling to sign up for free NY Times; it essentially details how both inflation in Asia and the weakness of the dollar will create dramatic increases in Asian made goods.
    These factors are probably why Titus was able to bring the Racer-X and Moto-lite back to U.S. production with only an 11% increase on MSRP, not bad considering a +4% U.S. inflation (CPI-U all items according to www.bls.gov). As a consumer, I think a net 7% increase is worth the Made in U.S.A. sticker. Maybe more companies, who have switched to Asian production, will follow suit and bring production back to the U.S., e.g. Maverick, Yeti, S.C., etc... One can only hope. Either way, we are going to see a big increase in the cost of our Asian made bike parts.

    I should probably x-post in another forum, but considering the discussion here recently about keeping Turners made in the U.S.-- I wanted throw it out here first.

    _MK

  85. #85
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    It's late in the game here Chuck, but fwiw; they're both great bikes...I have (had) them both. I sold my Nomad, and sold my ML8, then bought a new ML8 when I realized I couldn't live without it. I ended up going 96 with it (29" front wheel) and it's pretty sweet! Under 30lbs for a Lg, w/the Speedball post. It flies, but it doesn't feel like a DH bike. There's nothing on the front range I wouldn't blast down on it, but I also probably wouldn't take it to the lifts either...I think the Nomad can have 2 different personalities; Trail w/different wheelset, and light DH/FR w/other wheelset. If you can ride a large, swing by Alpha Bicycle Co when you get back in town and you can take mine out for a day of riding. We don't sell either bike, but you can ride my ML8. Good luck! Patt
    Guerilla Gravity stable: Megatrail, Trail Pistol, Pedalhead

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