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  1. #1
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    Lyons heil connector poll

    so as you may or not know, the town of Lyons is in a heated debate on where to put the trailhead. Its the classic "not in my backyard" situation. So my question to you is if the trail proper comes right into bohn park, would you park there or in another parking that is not in close proximity? Most of the other options would be located a couple blocks away from the park. For example one of the options is to put the trailhead right off the highway by valley bank across from the outlaw saloon which would require you to ride on pavement a couple of blocks through a neighborhood.
    Rub n Tiz'zug

  2. #2
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    Those whiners in Lyons should just be glad they don't live in Gunbarrel next to the new FasTracks commuter rail terminal that Boulder is lovingly shoving down our throats. Plus like all public works Boulder, they are purposely building it with inadequate parking as if all the Denver bound workers from Lyons, Longmont and Boulder are going to add even more time to their commute by riding the bus or their bikes to the train.

    But, uh, yeah, put the trailhead wherever it needs to go in order to have the funnest trail. Hopefully it will have enough parking that people aren't fighting over spots (ala Marshall Mesa).

    Hmm... I'm not bitter, no, I'm really not.
    Last edited by Tony; 05-08-2008 at 08:29 AM.
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  3. #3
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    I was just talking about this over a beer last night at OB. Personally I couldn't care less where they put the TH, so what if you have to cruise a couple o' miles to get to the dirt, just happy to have more dirt! Again, my 2 cents.

    Also, I'd probably be pissed also if I were a resident near BP. Honestly.
    Last edited by jugdish; 05-08-2008 at 09:12 AM.
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  4. #4
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    I would park at heil, parking between heil and hall in lyons doesn't really serve any purpose for me unless you do two out and backs.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by nOOby
    I would park at heil, parking between heil and hall in lyons doesn't really serve any purpose for me unless you do two out and backs.
    Well... it's either one long out and back or two shorter ones, eh? Again, I can appreciate from a non-riding, BP neighbors stand point not wanting parking/TH there. As much as I love to ride I don't think I'd want to live next door to Halls TH.

    Bottom line, where ever they put the TH riders will come, park there and deal with getting to the trail one way or another.
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  6. #6
    giddy up
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    Excellent point nOOby. That is very good information that our town needs to understand. They have this thought that the entire population of riders from Boulder county are going to swarm Lyons because we have a new connector trail. I think you make a great point as I mentioned because that would be an awesome out and back and I see a lot of riders using that option. Most of the users in lyons will most likely hail from Lyons itself or North Longmont. It might get high volume in the beginning but it will definitely taper off. It just drives me bat sh!t that our town has to make this process so damn difficult. They are talking about spending 375K to move a ballfield to put in parking. WTF?????
    Rub n Tiz'zug

  7. #7
    bbc
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    No one uses the existing parking lot in Bohn. I see maybe 2 cars in that big a** parking lot. Use that! We should also encourage people to park in town and have signage telling people where the trail heads are.

  8. #8
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    How about no parking lot.

    If you're going to ride this as a connector.. then you'll already be riding Heil and Hall. There are already parking lots there. Why can't we just use those? In this situation another parking lot makes no sense. Maybe the time would be better spent enlarging the one at the Antelope trailhead..

    That being said, lets say you'd like to ride out and back to Heil from the connector? Then just ride from town or again from the Hall parking lot. If you're riding the connector, obviously you're not opposed to another mile or so... Also, if you ride from town, that would most possibly bring more business to shop owners and food establishments.

    my $.02

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by nOOby
    I would park at heil, parking between heil and hall in lyons doesn't really serve any purpose for me unless you do two out and backs.
    +1 on that in case Lyons residents are reading this.

    I'm really looking forward to this because it allow a nice long out and back. I'm for more mileage on the dirt not a closer park spot to the dirt.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by grega
    If you're going to ride this as a connector.. then you'll already be riding Heil and Hall. There are already parking lots there. Why can't we just use those? In this situation another parking lot makes no sense. Maybe the time would be better spent enlarging the one at the Antelope trailhead..
    Bikers don't care where the trailhead is, it's probably mostly hikers that we're worrying about anyway. Green as they are, they want to get out of their cars and be "right there."

    The Anteope TH won't ever get enlarged. That was the compromise BoCo made with the area residents - limited parking, no bathrooms, and no horses. I don't see why we can't make the existing parking lot a TH under similar restrictions. I'm all for a new bathroom, though. The one in Bohn Park isn't great.

    bbc also makes an excellent point. The existing skatepark will eventually get moved to Bohn Park, and that'll free up (hopefully) more parking downtown. We/Lyons need to make that super obvious with good signage for folks that want to park in town in general.

    Lots of issues here, but the NIMBYs are ruling the roost. What'll likely end up happening is a trailhead next to the high school with bathrooms and horse trailer parking. Boulder County will give big $$ to the high school to rearrange existing ball fields. Next, we've got F250s with horse trailers hauling thru residential neighborhoods to get to a trailhead that's basically on existing school property. wtf? Also meanwhile, hikers and bikers learn that the trail comes into Bohn Park, too. In an effort to avoide immediate equine traffic, folks start parking in the park anyway. Might as well put the trailhead there now because it's going to get used.

    My $.02. I'm done now.
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  11. #11
    Kaj
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    This could be a contentious issue. Overall we as bikers likely should just stay united and say we just want the trail, the trail head you can put where you want.

    For me, I just can't wait to ride the full out and back from Heil to Hall, with a beer at OB half way through! Maybe a burger too, this will be a nice long fun ride.

  12. #12
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    agreed, longmonsters and other northern area based users will def. use this proposed TH to access heil ranch. I personally wouldn't, coming from the south.

    That said,I wouldn't want it next to my house either, but I wouldn't mind it down and around the corner if people weren't parading past my place to get there. I guess my living on a private road is pretty cool.

    when I first heard of the connector I imagined it going down by the quarry and ending right by Hall. Was this ever considered? Probably private property though.


    Quote Originally Posted by jugdish
    Well... it's either one long out and back or two shorter ones, eh? Again, I can appreciate from a non-riding, BP neighbors stand point not wanting parking/TH there. As much as I love to ride I don't think I'd want to live next door to Halls TH.

    Bottom line, where ever they put the TH riders will come, park there and deal with getting to the trail one way or another.

  13. #13
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    I think I speak for all boulder count taxpayers that the cost of moving a ball field for a parking lot could better utilized by using for current trailhead upkeep and future trail work. I would just hate to waste that kind of money on something that may get very little use by all types trail users. This is why I think it very important for people outside of Lyons to weigh in. I live right next to bp and I think the trailhead should be right there. As you said ignazr, people are going to park there no matter what and that would be agreat reason to upgrade the bathrooms. I don't see any other modifications necessary.
    Rub n Tiz'zug

  14. #14
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    I'm ambivalent.

    I usually park at Sandstone park when I do Hall from town so that won't change no matter what is chosen.
    Last edited by lidarman; 05-08-2008 at 01:36 PM.

  15. #15
    mtbmike
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    We need a trailhead that works for everyone

    That includes horses. As much as some of them annoy the hell out of me, their need for adequate facilities should not be ignored. The Hall parking lot is a non-starter for them, because they would have to navigate CO 7. The parking lot by the bank falls apart when you consider that need.

    BMA saw this brain damage coming on day 1 and pushed BCPOS to create a no parking access point along Red Gulch Rd, which we were successful in acquiring. As mountain bikers, we can tolerate some asphalt riding if we can get to the dirt in short order.

    It is disappointing to see the NIMBYism in Lyons, especially when they are on a collision course for running out of money and have to figure out how they are going to pay for town services after they are built out... less than 150 building permits remain.

    Instead of welcoming their neighbors from the region and encouraging them to come and play and spend their money there, they are hiding the women and children and preparing for us to have keggers in their parking lot and defacate anywhere we want. Oh yeah, we'll be drag racing on their streets as well.

    It's the end of the world as they know it, and I feel fine.
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  16. #16
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    keggers and drag racing? now we're talkin'!


    mike, you guys got a map handy for those of us not familiar w/ the local parlance? (i.e bohn, antelope, etc.)

    i've still never been able to visualize where this mythical connector trail will be, let alone the THs...

    grazi.


    dave, congrats on the new shop! i need to get up there and take a looksee.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbmike1

    It is disappointing to see the NIMBYism in Lyons, especially when they are on a collision course for running out of money and have to figure out how they are going to pay for town services after they are built out... less than 150 building permits remain.

    Instead of welcoming their neighbors from the region and encouraging them to come and play and spend their money there, they are hiding the women and children and preparing for us to have keggers in their parking lot and defacate anywhere we want.

    Agreed.
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  18. #18
    mtbmike
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    All of the gory details are here....

    Quote Originally Posted by gotdirt
    keggers and drag racing? now we're talkin'!


    mike, you guys got a map handy for those of us not familiar w/ the local parlance? (i.e bohn, antelope, etc.)

    i've still never been able to visualize where this mythical connector trail will be, let alone the THs...

    grazi.
    http://www.bouldercounty.org/openspa...heilvalley.htm

    good maps there as well.
    mtbmike
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  19. #19
    ewl
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbmike1
    It is disappointing to see the NIMBYism in Lyons, especially when they are on a collision course for running out of money and have to figure out how they are going to pay for town services after they are built out... less than 150 building permits remain.
    Whoa now, I don't think we're talking the whole town here. Seems to me that we're talking a small portion of residents who think that tax payer purchased open space should remain their own personal backyard playgrounds.

    It was nice while it lasted, but perhaps it's time to take the glass half full perspective and realize the benefits of having this great resource out your backdoor rather than ringing your hands about what will happen when the trailhead shows up.

    I suspect if the trailhead existed prior to the neighborhood around the park, that the houses would have been built just as densely around the trailhead and the neighbors would be psyched to have the trail out their door - but maybe that's just me.

    I think it's time to move on and start planning the best possible solution for Bohn park. My fear is all this bickering is going to lead to a rash decision and there will end up being little thought put into the actual solution for the final location and we'll end up with a big gravel lot that falls out of the sky. The power of good planning and landscape architecture shouldn't be underestimated in making a Bohn park trailhead work.

  20. #20
    giddy up
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    ewl, I agree completely which is why I created this post. My hopes are to get some good feedback from people outside of Lyons and get a better understanding of what we need rather than what we think we need. Nothing more and nothing less. The more I read the more I think our town leadership and residents are going off half cocked. The more informed we are might make it easier to convince people on a final decision. Again I am all for a th in bohn for Many reasons and that also includes the value of my home hopefully increasing. at the endof the day we need to maintain good relationship with the county and meet the needs of the trail users. The NIMBYism has to give at some point.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ignazjr

    The Anteope TH won't ever get enlarged. That was the compromise BoCo made with the area residents - limited parking, no bathrooms, and no horses.
    Interesting. I wonder what the neighbors think of all the peeps parking on Apple Valley road and riding up antelope road when they find the lot full. Last I rode there, I saw a slew of cars with bike racks apparently doing just that.

  22. #22
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    I and all the people I have talked to about this new connector have no intention of driving from Boulder to Lyons to ride Heil...we are all stoked for the epic loop we can ride from Boulder without having to drive...I can't see why anyone would waste the gas to drive to Lyons and ride Heil, it makes no sense to me. I could see a possible drop in biking traffic in Lyons as a whole as us annoying Boulderites can park at Heil TH, ride to Hall and do a loop or just get a beer and food at OB and ride back to Heil TH

  23. #23
    Rolling
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    Quote Originally Posted by longman
    I and all the people I have talked to about this new connector have no intention of driving from Boulder to Lyons to ride Heil...we are all stoked for the epic loop we can ride from Boulder without having to drive...I can't see why anyone would waste the gas to drive to Lyons and ride Heil, it makes no sense to me. I could see a possible drop in biking traffic in Lyons as a whole as us annoying Boulderites can park at Heil TH, ride to Hall and do a loop or just get a beer and food at OB and ride back to Heil TH
    I agree for us in Boulder.

    But you have all the people in Longmont and the area north who might want to ride Heil from that way.

    Despite what we might believe, Boulder is not the center of the universe.

  24. #24
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    As a Longmonster.....

    .... I can say this:

    1. I'm totally excited to have 10 MORE miles of trail to ride that will involve driving 0 more miles than I might to go to either traditional Heil or Hall.

    2. I would drive to Lyons to ride South to Heil or North to Hall. In fact, my vision would be for the trail head of the new Heil connector to be as close to the Hall main lot as possible.

    3. I already park in Downtown Lyons and ride pavement to HALL and think it's actually GOOD as a warm up. In case no one realizes, Climbing Hall right out of the car with no warm up is, to say the least, a lung-buster. The Heil connector isn't going to be exactly flat. Look at the terrain! A couple of miles of pavement would be OK

    4. Lyons residents are probably right to be concerned about voicing their opinions about where it is. In general, the trail head probably shouldn't have more cars driving through residential areas. However, isn't there already a healthy consumption of out of town turist dollars supporting Lyons? If you fly into DIA to go to RMNP, you go through lyons to get to Estes. People say, "oh, look, a cute little western town. Lets stop and have lunch."

    hmmm... will have to finish this rambling post later... gotta go...

  25. #25
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    I think average folks will drive the extra 5 miles to avoid the Geer Cyn trailhead and use a Lyons TH. To the average biker that Geer cyn climb is steep and punishing with square edged rocks. The Picture rock trail is going to be pretty damn smooth probably steep through one section and allow a nice link to the smoother wild turkey. Smoothness wins in my book but I ride a rigid SS most of the time so what do I know.

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