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  1. #1
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    Let's talk about a group order for some cheap Light-Bicycle carbon rims

    So, per the 130pg megathread on the 29er Component forum, LB is now producing the 650b and 29er Wider rims w/ their new layup process. But the price break for volume order isn't good. From Nancy:
    For rims more than 10pcs, we do will offer a discount. Please check as below. 10pcs rims to 20pcs: USD8 (I think she means $8 USD) cheaper for each rim, 20pcs to 30pcs: USD12 cheaper for each rim, for more than 30pcs: USD15 cheaper for each rim.

    I also asked if the price break will only be for an order for rims with all the same spec...no mixing 26er and 29er. Reply from Nancy:
    The discount is the same, it depends on the total quantity.

    I see the deal being had in shipping. The shipping for my last pair I ordered was $50. And, I did price out shipping for 4 rims...same, $50. Obviously that'll go up w/ quantities in the 10's. But if by group ordering we can half the shipping per rim...all the better.

    Per MK_, if LB does change their layup process for the 26er, it'll be after the Chinese New Year at the earliest (Feb. 10th).

    So, who's interested?
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  2. #2
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    Nancy's email on shipping breakdown...

    The shipping cost breakdown is as below.
    2pcs rims: USD50 to USA
    4pcs rims: USD71
    10pcs rims: USD127
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  3. #3
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    Let's talk about a group order for some cheap Light-Bicycle carbon rims

    I haven't read the mega forum. Can you give us a synopsis?
    "There are two kinds of mountain bikers in the world: those who are faster than me, and me."

  4. #4
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    Technology Improve Of Light-Bicycle Carbon MTB 650B Rims Light-Bicycle

    They've improved the layup apparently, or are about to. I've been eyeing them myself, especially after this latest post. I'm in.
    The correct number of bikes one should own is N+1, where N is the number of bikes currently owned.

  5. #5
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    Let's talk about a group order for some cheap Light-Bicycle carbon rims

    Just read a little on the other hijacked thread . Count me in when you get more on pricing, etc.

    On spoke tension, I wonder if this is more common on 29ers (lower tension). I've built Stan's arch and flow rims and both have pretty low tension numbers (100 if I remember correctly). If you over-tighten, they actually get weaker...
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  6. #6
    MK_
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    I'm in for after the Chinese New Year. My personal theory is that the cracks happen on the weaker side of the rim (when you look at the cross sections of the old vs new rim, the old rim has less reinforcement on one side). I do dent rim beads so I'm a prime candidate for cracking one of these spendy things.

    I'll be in for 2pcs of Wide 26er once the improvement trickles down.

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  7. #7
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    Yeah, I was eyeballing that cross section pic... I think they posted that to show the extreme case of potential inconsistencies in the old method.
    I'm personally looking at about mid-March to early April before I can throw down... I'm a Fed and they don't pay me much, so I'll need the tax return
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  8. #8
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    That's a characteristic of Stan's rims, they're not rated for as high a tension as other rims. These carbon ones are rated for higher than I think it's really feasible to build (180kgs).

    I'd be a pair of wide strong 29er rims if we pull this together.

    Quote Originally Posted by alshead View Post
    Just read a little on the other hijacked thread . Count me in when you get more on pricing, etc.

    On spoke tension, I wonder if this is more common on 29ers (lower tension). I've built Stan's arch and flow rims and both have pretty low tension numbers (100 if I remember correctly). If you over-tighten, they actually get weaker...
    The correct number of bikes one should own is N+1, where N is the number of bikes currently owned.

  9. #9
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    If you dig thru that megathread a bit, I had up'd a batch of pics on the build and another on the (cosmetic) repair of these rims.

    While there, dig for "galvanic corrosion", or just "corrosion". In the spirit of full disclosure, there is at least 1 suspecious (alloy) nipple failure w/ these rims. Mr. Magura also up'd a table showing where materials sit as anode/cathode, and carbon/graphite to aluminum is pretty bad. So, I'm rebuilding my wheels w/ brass nipples this wknd.
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  10. #10
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    I am in for 2 - 26ers..

  11. #11
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    I'm in for 2 29" XC

    So, if the price break for 10+ orders is $15usd, but the shipping is $130, doesn't that almost completely negate the price break? I'd be in if there is an actual price break.

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    If you do the math, shipping for 2 is $25 per rim, shipping for 10+ works out to $13 per rim. So a good savings there, plus another $15 off per rim. So, a savings of about $27 per rim. Sounds like a good deal.

    I am interested in 2 of the wide 26ers.

  13. #13
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    The math...

    Quote Originally Posted by dickt3030 View Post
    I'm in for 2 29" XC

    So, if the price break for 10+ orders is $15usd, but the shipping is $130, doesn't that almost completely negate the price break? I'd be in if there is an actual price break.
    In my case:
    2 x $165 for wider 29er = $330
    1 x $50 for shipping
    ==> $380

    Group order for 10+ rims
    2 x $165 - 2 x $8 = $314
    2 x $127/10 = 2 x $12.7 = $25.4
    ==> $339.4

    ==> [1 - ($339.4/$380)] x 100 = 10.68%

    Questions; comments; complaints?

    Edit: FYI, when I bought my first pair about 6 months ago, the rims were $150 and waited about 2 months. Besides a 10% increase in price, from all reports, the wait time has bee up'd to about 3 months if they don't have what you want in stock. Since I already have a pair, I'm in no hurry. Keep this in mind when I get around to putting this group thing in action... Anyone needing rims earlier, please feel free to take over this group order effort.
    Last edited by Pau11y; 02-02-2013 at 10:38 AM.
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  14. #14
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    Rebuilt my LB wheels today...

    ...w/ brass niplers due to some galvanic corrosion concerns, and thought since I had them tore down, I'd throw them on a scale. Not nearly as light as I thought, but whatev... They're stiffer than a 20 y.o. on 200mg of Viagra tho!
    Frt: LB wider and heavier 29er (433g), King LD, DT Swiss Comps 292mm, DT hex brass, 3X
    RR: LB wider and heavier 29er (429g), King HD 142 (ss driveshell), DT Comps 292mm, DT hex brass, 3X
    Didn't really use my tension meter and just went by tone. If anyone's interested, I can slap the tension meter on them and get you some numbers. Used anti-seize for thread and nipler head lube...made for one quiet build session! Normally, I'd get creaking and popping when I side-load the wheel to unwind the nipler/spokes. This time, not a peep! I think I was able to get a bit higher tension w/ anti-seize also...the nipples didn't bind on the carbon/resin as much.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Let's talk about a group order for some cheap Light-Bicycle carbon rims-lb-king-comps-rr-1057g.jpg  

    Let's talk about a group order for some cheap Light-Bicycle carbon rims-lb-king-comp-frt-867g.jpg  

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  15. #15
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    1900+g for rims w/o skewers, rotors, valves. that does seem heavy.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satanic Pizza View Post
    1900+g for rims w/o skewers, rotors, valves. that does seem heavy.
    Not sure how accurate that scale is...Harbor Freight score...but yeah, does seem heavy huh?
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  17. #17
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    Brass Nipples are surprisingly heavy

    Quote Originally Posted by Satanic Pizza View Post
    1900+g for rims w/o skewers, rotors, valves. that does seem heavy.
    I think you're not far off there, I counted 32 spokes, and once you add everything up, if the scale's off by 5% that gets you to 1960:



    This is one of the builds I'm considering, it's weight weenie but should still be fairly strong. It's between this and a Hope/Sapim Force build that comes in at 1811g:

    Last edited by hirschmj; 02-04-2013 at 07:19 AM. Reason: wrong second picture
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by hirschmj View Post
    I think you're not far off there, I counted 32 spokes, and once you add everything up, if the scale's off by 5% that gets you to 1960
    Wow, where are you finding 12 x 142 Kings w/ stainless driveshell for $388? That's a SMOKIN' deal!
    Considering you've got: the hub
    ...and you've got: the drive shell

    Say, how much do you weigh and what are you putting the AC/LB wheels on? I'm kinda curious if I went a bit overboard w/ my build

    Edit: better bang for the buck, I'd direct ppl to Erik at balleracing.com for some Hadleys...a few grams heavier, just as many PoE, and ~1/2 the price w/ Ti driveshell. Only down part, you may need to make (or buy) some tools to service these hubs.
    Last edited by Pau11y; 02-04-2013 at 02:53 PM.
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  19. #19
    MK_
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    You can save some money on the American Classic hubs and buy the WTB Laser Disc hubs since they're the same thing.

    The CK HD rear hub is pretty heavy. That 1900g+ wheelset would have been about 150g less with Aerolites or Revolutions and Aluminum nipples. Granted, building up a 29er with Revolutions is a huge pain.

    The galvanic corrosion is a bigger issue in wet climates according to a mechanical engineering buddy I spoke with yesterday. It's even worse in marine environment (what he designs for).

    _MK
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK_ View Post
    The CK HD rear hub is pretty heavy. That 1900g+ wheelset would have been about 150g less with Aerolites or Revolutions and Aluminum nipples. Granted, building up a 29er with Revolutions is a huge pain.

    The galvanic corrosion is a bigger issue in wet climates according to a mechanical engineering buddy I spoke with yesterday. It's even worse in marine environment (what he designs for).

    _MK
    I looked at the Revos and Aerolites... too expensive and flexy for me. I have a set of Reynolds MTNs (26er - Chainlove score) that came w/ those Revos...28h 2x w/ 38mm(?) tall rims. I seem to be able to "feel" the wheel give in turns. A bit unnerving when I've been using Comps and Champs to build wheels that don't give much. Plus, I seem to flip a lot of rock into the spokes, and the Revos are mighty thin where rocks typically hit my spokes. Aerolites are even thinner and more expensive! They do build amazingly nice road wheels tho!
    That table Mr Magura up'd for galvanic corrosion did mention it was for marine environs...for bits exposed to salty water. But whatev... At 190 kitted up and the speeds a long travel 29er can get up to plowing into rocks (I have big fat/heavy tires to help w/ this too), I'll live w/ the brass if for no other reason than a placebo peace of mind.
    Oh, when I ordered up my wheel bits, I also got some Fulcrum nipple washers... They won't fit thru the LB rims inner wall drilling...FYI.

    If I were building a set of race day wheels for an XCer less than 150 lbs, I'd go w/ Revo/Aerolites and alloy niplers... But for my slacker (I hate doing wheel repairs) and fat ass, I'll stick w/ the Comps w/ brass and maybe get more than a couple of seasons out of these wheels...maybe
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  21. #21
    MK_
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    If I were building a set of race day wheels for an XCer less than 150 lbs, I'd go w/ Revo/Aerolites and alloy niplers... But for my slacker (I hate doing wheel repairs) and fat ass, I'll stick w/ the Comps w/ brass and maybe get more than a couple of seasons out of these wheels...maybe
    I've been building my wheelsets with Aerolites and CX-Rays for years. These get treated pretty harshly on a 6in do it all bike (can't afford a DH rig anymore nor a XC bike). The spokes have had a lifespan and durability of any other spoke I've run. They build a much lighter wheelset. Sapim claims that the bladed nature of a CX-Ray gives it the longest fatigue life of any spoke they make. In essence the Aerolite is a Revolution stamped flat. The largest benefit to me is during the wheel build; I can hold the spoke and prevent it from winding when tensioning up the wheels.

    _MK
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK_ View Post
    I've been building my wheelsets with Aerolites and CX-Rays for years. These get treated pretty harshly on a 6in do it all bike (can't afford a DH rig anymore nor a XC bike). The spokes have had a lifespan and durability of any other spoke I've run. They build a much lighter wheelset. Sapim claims that the bladed nature of a CX-Ray gives it the longest fatigue life of any spoke they make. In essence the Aerolite is a Revolution stamped flat. The largest benefit to me is during the wheel build; I can hold the spoke and prevent it from winding when tensioning up the wheels.

    _MK
    Good to know on the lifespan!
    The blades are holding up well to rock hits? What do you weigh in at, kitted up?

    I made my own little tool to help w/ (round) spoke wind up. A pair of medium sized NAPA or Ace Hardware bargain bin needle nose plier w/ its nose Dremel'd off...you want only that smooth gripping surface. Then, Dremel in a "V" shaped channel into the flat surface at ~ 30 degree to the flat axis of the pliers that's almost as deep as 3/4 of a spoke diameter (so you can use it on 14 and 15g spokes). This way, you can grip the spoke during those high tension fine tuning sessions that you'd typically get wind up, at an angle where you won't feel like your wrist is going to snap
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  23. #23
    MK_
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    They must as I've never had an issue of a rock doing damage. I'm ~200lbs in full kit with 100oz of water.

    BTW, I've got an interested friend in one set of wide 29er rims. So jot me down for a set of wide 26er and 29er hoops.

    _MK
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK_ View Post
    They must as I've never had an issue of a rock doing damage. I'm ~200lbs in full kit with 100oz of water.

    BTW, I've got an interested friend in one set of wide 29er rims. So jot me down for a set of wide 26er and 29er hoops.

    _MK
    I'm going to pole this thread again when I'm closer to order time. I'll email Nancy about the possibility of setting up a group order number or something so those involved can just reference that thing from a list I'll get her...
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  25. #25
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    Revos are the same price as Comps, give or take $0.10.

    I go 210 without gear, give or take. The price for the King was the hub with the stock aluminum drive shell, not the stainless steel one. These wheels are currently for a Niner JET9, though they're intended to graduate to a Yeti SB-95c once that becomes a real thing. I do think the brass nipples are overkill, I don't anticipate noticeable corrosion on the aluminum nipples.

    I've been looking at the data here every now and then, but there's a ton of it. I'm trying to isolate wheels by spoke count (32 is most common) and spoke type (2-1.8-2, 1.8-1.6-1.8, straight 1.8, etc) and the spoke gauge correlates very poorly with deflection, or stiffness. What does seem to correlate with deflection is the rim strength - the Mavic GEL280's (a weight weenie road rim) are universally less stiff than Mavic X222's (a cross country mountain rim), regardless of spoke.

    That plus the fatigue life claimed by the thin CX-Ray's makes me think spoke gauge isn't as important to wheel stiffness as the rim stiffness is. I may still go with Sapim Force spokes (2.18-1.8-2.0) for a little peace of mind, but I do think D-Lights would work just fine. I've heard from a wheelbuilding guy I trust that while Brass nipples definitely don't corrode and in the past they were definitely stronger, Aluminum nipples have pretty much caught up in terms of strength and are fine for building with. Note from Sheldon's site that, contrary to what people jabber about on the internet, wheel stiffness has little to do with spoke tension, once they're tensioned properly. Screwing the nipples down as hard as you can only gets you a couple percent.

    I have broken two spokes on my rear Stan's Arch EX rear, but none on the front yet, this is a bit over one season, give or take. They use 2-1.7-2 spokes, and I do think they were related to being hit on rocks or something. I also feel like I can sometimes feel the Arch wheels squirm under hard cornering, but I'm right up against the weight limit of 230lbs with gear on.

    Thanks for the tip on the Laser Discs, I'll look into that further.
    The correct number of bikes one should own is N+1, where N is the number of bikes currently owned.

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