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  1. #1
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    LBS Question - situation...

    Okay, I'm just looking for thoughts and opinions...

    I ride a 29'r. Kinda a newbie, but I can go down most stuff on the front range. I go slow and have no need for speed on the trails, and I prefer super fat tread for extra grip. The past week I had a couple flats, so I decided it was the time to go tubeless.

    I take my bike to the LBS, Littleton Cyclery (which I love btw, they are always helpful and make me feel like #1 priority), and they say if I want to go tubeless, I should get new tires because it makes the process better. The tires I had on were in good shape, but whatever...I don't know about bikes, I just ride them, so I figured ok. I thought I could make my own tires tubeless, but they say it'll be better with new ones.

    We go to the tire section, and none of the tires are like the ones I have, so the guy shows me 1 that looks close. It's a tubeless tire so it'll make the sealant stay in better. When he tries to find another tubeless one, he can't...so after some back and forth, he picks out one with small tread. I tell him and another employee that I REALLY don't want something made for speed, I want grippy, and that I can wait if they want to order bigger tread tires. Both him and the employee tell me that this small tread for the back tire will be great - and that one uses it to race (on his 26'r). It's not tubeless tire, but they say it won't matter.

    So okay...it costs about $260 or so for them to make the switch. I don't know a lot about tires, so I would just rather pay to have them do a good job.

    Get the bike back.

    In 2 rides, my back tire (the non-tubeless one) has popped three times...letting out air and sealant. So I have to stop and pump up my back tire in the middle of the ride. Anytime I go over anything remotely rocky, I was just waiting for it to pop again.

    On top of that, I can't stand the tires. They are not grippy at ALL, and slide all over the place compared with what I was running. My buddy says they are thinner in general (don't remember the measurements), in addition to the back one having small tread.

    So my question is this...

    I'm kinda pissed off. I dropped $260 to go tubeless, and not only am I not getting the benefit of it (because the back tire keeps popping out air)...the treads are horrible and I can't ride like this.

    What is reasonable for me to request from the LBS?

    I think they should order me tires that fit what I wanted, and make those tubeless. I went in there pretty clear about what I needed, and they talked me into buying new tires that don't feel good at all. I'm new when it comes to the mechanical feel of the bike....so I am just claiming being stupid. lol....normally I am fine with paying a stupid tax, but ugh...$200+ for tires I can't use is pushing it...especially because they sold me on it.

    Thoughts? I just want to know what is reasonable before I go in there annoyed.

  2. #2
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    if it ain't broken, don't fix it


  3. #3
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    That would be cool of them to make it right, but it wasn't cool to push you into getting the wrong stuff in the first place. I would expect more not-cool.

  4. #4
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    What caused your flats? Pinch? Rocks?

  5. #5
    3 Legged Big Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by FooserX View Post
    It's not tubeless tire, but they say it won't matter.
    Guess they were wrong. Since you payed for professional service and this is the result I would expect them to fix the tire going flat. Ask them to buy the non tubeless tire back sell you a tubeless tire of your liking and they absorb the cost to set it up correctly. As professionals they should not advise customers along the route of using non tubeless tires as tubeless unless they are willing to absorb some of the cost of "trying" it. Don't get me wrong it works most times but not always. If you ask them to "try it" its on your back if they suggested it, its on theirs.

    As long as the front tire holds air I say you own it like it or not. Finding a tire you like takes time and sometimes you buy a tire you don't like. I'd say that's the case here.

    You probably should have insisted on getting a tubeless version of the tire you had, if available. I have setup used UST tires as tubeless without any problem directly related to the tire being used. Were your old tires UST? If so clean it up and ask them to use it.


    You kinda hung them out by posting the LBS name, so make sure you come back here and let us know when they treat you right on this.

    C

  6. #6
    Kaj
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    It's easy for them to make it right, with only 3 rides on the tires they can still sell them as used tires and not loose much if anything. Just ask, I bet they will continue to help you out. Occasionally a salesperson can make a mistake, even a good one. The key is do they make it right. Just ask, or even easier copy and paste your post into an email and ask for help.
    Helping folks shred in Boulder & Colorado since 1982 www.fullcyclebikes.com

  7. #7
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    What kind of rims are you using? Is this UST, Stan's, or ghetto?

    Asking for the manager while holding a six-pack should help your cause.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuglio View Post
    You guys suck im all bummed now

  8. #8
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    $260 to go tubeless? Ouch!! Sorry to say but they took advantage of you being ignorant and ripped you off big time. Those guys have no shame. I hope they treat you right when you go back.

  9. #9
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    there is always the BBB if all else fails.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaj View Post
    ... they can still sell them as used tires and not loose(sic) much if anything. ....
    They would lose my business for good.

    I would learn to do the work myself....

    ...But this shows the irony of the whole mountain biking thing. A rider should really know everything about their bike to be able to fix it on the trail. And when that happens, it kinda kills the need for the shop.

    I think the OP has to take some blame on this one for ignorance of his bike.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles View Post
    What caused your flats? Pinch? Rocks?

    The first 2 times - nothing caused my flats. I seriously started up Green Mountain from the parking lot and the second I hit the incline...poof!

    Today was going down one of the rock beds on Lair O Bear.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman View Post

    I think the OP has to take some blame on this one for ignorance of his bike.

    I do take on some of the blame.

    I'm new at Mtn biking and am still using the entry level 29'r I bought from the same LBS. I love it. I've only switched out tires once. When I hear people talk "bike" on here...it's like another language to me. I don't have the experience to make decisions or know what I like.

    I trusted 2 bike shop employees on the tires because they were...well...bike shop employees. lol.

    And I didn't want to invest a bunch of money going tubeless and doing it myself for the first time. I didn't want to mess it up.

    Not every biker is a die hard biker that wants to put in the time to know the bike mechanics backwards and forwards. I have other sports and hobbies...and just wanted the shop to make the bike ready to ride. I also am learning the guitar. I just want to focus on practicing, I don't want to spend weeks learning how to take it apart and stuff.

    Thanks though, I hear ya.

    X

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis C View Post
    You probably should have insisted on getting a tubeless version of the tire you had, if available. I have setup used UST tires as tubeless without any problem directly related to the tire being used. Were your old tires UST? If so clean it up and ask them to use it.

    You kinda hung them out by posting the LBS name, so make sure you come back here and let us know when they treat you right on this.

    C
    Thanks for your advice Curtis - probably the most helpful! I would answer your questions, but I don't know what UST is.

    As for throwing out the name of the LBS - I put in my post that they have always been helpful and great to me. I expect them to make it right just based off previous dealings with them. I will come back and update this though! Good thought!

    X

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosayno View Post
    $260 to go tubeless? Ouch!! Sorry to say but they took advantage of you being ignorant and ripped you off big time. Those guys have no shame. I hope they treat you right when you go back.

    lol - well that was for the new tires too...

    I don't have the receipt now, but two new tires + the tubeless kit + labor. It may have been $230 since I bought 2 extra 29'r tubes just in case.

    X

  15. #15
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    they def need to make it right. at no extra cost..imo

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by FooserX View Post
    Thanks for your advice Curtis - probably the most helpful! I would answer your questions, but I don't know what UST is.

    As for throwing out the name of the LBS - I put in my post that they have always been helpful and great to me. I expect them to make it right just based off previous dealings with them. I will come back and update this though! Good thought!

    X
    UST just means the tire was built to be used tubeless. For the most part the tire is marked UST if its a tubeless tire. You could probably find it on your front tire.

    C

  17. #17
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    UST tires are designed to be used tubeless and without sealant. These tires have a special bead and a heavy airtight casing, so that no tube and no sealant are necessary. The special bead is designed to work with a UST rim, but can also work with tubeless rim strips or stans rims. This is probably the most reliable and the heaviest tubeless option, especially with sealant.

    'Tubeless ready' tires usually have a UST bead but not an airtight casing. You have to use sealant to make them airtight. They weigh a lot less than true UST tires.

    Then there are standard tires, designed for use with tubes. Many standard tires work fine with sealant and a rim strip (or a rim like stans) instead of a tube. Some standard tires have weak beads and will blow off the rim. Check the stans website for a list of approved tire manufacturers. Because standard tires aren't designed for tubeless, you are always rolling the dice when you decide to use them that way. Most of the time it works great though.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by FooserX View Post
    The first 2 times - nothing caused my flats. I seriously started up Green Mountain from the parking lot and the second I hit the incline...poof!

    Today was going down one of the rock beds on Lair O Bear.
    No - I mean what caused your *original* flats on your tubed tires?

  19. #19
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    Best way to learn to work on bikes is by doing. Zinn's book is cheap on Amazon and a great resource. But honestly there's nothing mystical about bikes and it's a good idea to proficient in basic tuning so you don't stuck miles from the trailhead by a simple mechanical.

    But seriously, just let me know when you want to work on your bike. We can share some beers and you can get your hands dirty. After yesterdays tail tucked fleeing from the rain it might be a good time to wash the bike and give it a basic tune-up.

  20. #20
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    Did that $260 include new set of wheels too? jk
    The price seems way too high for my taste.
    Just curious, Did you ask up front how much was the estimate?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman View Post
    They would lose my business for good.

    I would learn to do the work myself....

    ...But this shows the irony of the whole mountain biking thing. A rider should really know everything about their bike to be able to fix it on the trail. And when that happens, it kinda kills the need for the shop.

    I think the OP has to take some blame on this one for ignorance of his bike.

  22. #22
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    Yikes... $260?... I hope that included 4 tires.

    You're almost half-way to a new set of Stan's Wheels w/ yellow tape and valves ($530), a pair of Maxxis Ardent 29'er 2.4 tires ($50 per) and a bottle of Stan's Sealant ($15).

    I willingly pay "reasonable retail" prices at my LBS if they have what I need, when I need it, but unless we're missing something, that price sounds rather rich... $60 per tire, $70 no-tubes conversion kit, $7.5 per spare tube and $50'ish in labor? Back in my bike shop employee days (pre-tubeless), we would have at least packaged a deal like that rather than selling it ala carte at full list.... but I always preferred repeat, loyal customers rather than going for the one-n-done home runs.
    Last edited by topmounter; 07-08-2011 at 08:24 AM.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman View Post
    They would lose my business for good.

    I would learn to do the work myself....

    ...But this shows the irony of the whole mountain biking thing. A rider should really know everything about their bike to be able to fix it on the trail. And when that happens, it kinda kills the need for the shop.

    I think the OP has to take some blame on this one for ignorance of his bike.
    This is pretty harsh. Sure he paid a service premium for them to mount the tires, but the issue is they pushed a tire that doesn't work well on his rims and doesn't hook up on local trails. They set him up with an Ignitor (yay!) front, but only a 2.1 and a Crossmark 2.1 in the rear. That Crossmark was squirrelly at LotB, with the burping issue on top it's a no-go.

    This isn't like FooserX didn't know how to adjust a derailleur on the trail, it's that he relied on the LBS to recommend a tire that would work best for him out of many options available. That's the sort of thing you should be able to rely on an LBS to do. Sounds like they didn't have the inventory so they tried to push him on another tire so they didn't lose the sale.

  24. #24
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    Hey OP...

    You will likely have troubles like this in the future.

    Best bet is to make a friend who rides. They can help you out with stuff like this. Otherwise post here for advice. You will likely get one or two posts worth of useful information, and 20 or 30 complaining that you didnt search, or saying that you are dumb, posturing, showing off, trying to be funny ( and not succeeding).etc .... Just ignore the a$$holes who like to post on these threads and you will be golden!

  25. #25
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    Unfortunate

    Quote Originally Posted by FooserX View Post
    I do take on some of the blame.

    I'm new at Mtn biking and am still using the entry level 29'r I bought from the same LBS. I love it. I've only switched out tires once. When I hear people talk "bike" on here...it's like another language to me. I don't have the experience to make decisions or know what I like.

    I trusted 2 bike shop employees on the tires because they were...well...bike shop employees. lol.

    And I didn't want to invest a bunch of money going tubeless and doing it myself for the first time. I didn't want to mess it up...
    Sorry to hear about this. I'm curious about what the 260 was for (like, an itemized list). I worked at an LBS for several years, pretty much 2004-2010. I know how things can add up, cost-wise. Hard to hand a big bill to a customer, especially when they aren't experienced and aren't the type to pay huge for stuff.

    They should have ordered you tires of the beefiness you wanted. They should have ordered something like Specialized 2Bliss or Bontrager Tubeless Ready in a 2.3 or larger with an aggressive tread. UST is a standard that's only recently gone to 29, and it implies a specific UST rim in addition to the specific tire. An entry level 29 would not come with a UST rim. There are some non-UST rims that are designed around the assumption of tubeless (either come with airtight rimstrips and valve stems or have them available, and have a bead of the right shape).

    Did that 260 include wheels/rims?

    If your rear tire is burping air they didn't do it right. They did not pick a combination of tire and rim that would work together. Since the tire isn't even designed to be tubeless, it was poor technical judgement. Sounds like the specific tire was the darling of some shoppie. That's not good representation of a customer's needs. Bad sales judgement.

    Nobody has said this yet that I've seen in this thread: I'm not somebody who thinks that tubeless is the solution to flats. These days almost everyone is gaga over tubeless. I went for it big on my 29er a couple years ago. I had some bad experiences. I still have marks on my back from a really nasty crash in my 3rd lap of the 12 hours of Mesa Verde a few years ago. Front tire burped and folded over as I cornered through some sandstone stair-steps. After that I put my tubeless tires on the shelf and started using the Ollies Yes-tubes system. I use sealent tubes (heavy as fsck, especially when mated to the beefy tires I use, and 29" ones at that) and I put in just enough pressure to avoid pinching without making the tires hard like a BB.

    That's probably not what you wanted to hear.

    Hope things work out. Take your concerns to your shop. If they want to keep your business they'll try to meet you half way to make you happy. If they don't make you happy, walk. There are lots of bike shops in Denver.
    Tom Purvis - Salida, CO - http://teamvelveeta.tom-purvis.com

    "I like my wimmen like I like my beer--cold and bitter!"

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