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  1. #1
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    LANDIS and LANCE DOPING? GTFO

    Not that anybody here really cares about road racing..............but Armstrong is a full blown American ICON.
    What would be the fallout if Lance is proven to be a 'rulebreaker'?
    My opinion is that even though Landis is a lying sack of SH!& he probably speaks truth about Armstrong (and most of the competitive Pro field) and their doping habits.

    I think it is naive to believe that most, if not all pro level sports DO NOT use PED of some sort.
    I guess I just find it laughable that most people really believe otherwise.

    What say you?


    http://news.google.com/news/more?pz=...EsnbxM&topic=s
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  2. #2
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    Like snow boarders, they all dope.
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  3. #3
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    BTW, doping in Denver is legal! --newsflash, right?
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndecentExposure
    BTW, doping in Denver is legal! --newsflash, right?
    I mean YEAH, but that's medicine right?!
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  5. #5
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    Viva Sports Science

  6. #6
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    Let everyone dope, no matter the sport. If people feel winning is worth the risk of a heart attack at 20 something, that's their decision.
    Down is the new up.

  7. #7
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    Hell I'm high right now.

  8. #8
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    Armstrong has been tested literally thousands of times. A lot of people don't know that cycling also has strict "out of competition" tests, where someone can show up at your door unannounced, at anytime, anywhere, and you have 20 minutes to give them pee and blood.

    Another factor now is that samples are stored, and are subject to testing years later. So, if someone finds a new drug that current tests cannot detect, odds are eventually they will still be caught.

    Given that, I find it very difficult to believe Armstrong wouldn't have been caught somewhere along the line.

    Consider this: If athletes in ANY other professional sport faced the doping scrutiny of cycling, many sports would be completely different today. Do you really think NFL teams could field an offensive line with five 300+ plus guys if they weren't dosing? They are only tested six times a year, and the very strong whisper is that they KNOW when the hit is coming. Masking agents are the norm., And, if they take off to Mexico for a month in April for some "training", they don't have WADA banging on their doors and asking for a sample. Then, if they are caught, they get a whole big four game suspension. Cyclists? Two years. It is a joke. Baseball is even more of a joke.

    Either Armstrong dopes or he doesn't, but until he is caught, he is clean, and that is all there is to it.

  10. #10
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    Or it hints at the fact that cycling is corrupt from the top down which, IMO, seems a bit more plausible than LA was clean and smoked a bunch of doped up pros or that his USPS teammates only doped (got caught) after they left Bruyneel and LA.

  11. #11
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    Last time I checked Lance never tested positive.

    If you're basing your allegations on what the f*cking liar Landis said, you should reconsider where you get your information. That guy's a douchebag and a f*cking liar to all extremes of the word.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit
    Armstrong has been tested literally thousands of times. A lot of people don't know that cycling also has strict "out of competition" tests, where someone can show up at your door unannounced, at anytime, anywhere, and you have 20 minutes to give them pee and blood.

    Another factor now is that samples are stored, and are subject to testing years later. So, if someone finds a new drug that current tests cannot detect, odds are eventually they will still be caught.

    Given that, I find it very difficult to believe Armstrong wouldn't have been caught somewhere along the line.

    Consider this: If athletes in ANY other professional sport faced the doping scrutiny of cycling, many sports would be completely different today. Do you really think NFL teams could field an offensive line with five 300+ plus guys if they weren't dosing? They are only tested six times a year, and the very strong whisper is that they KNOW when the hit is coming. Masking agents are the norm., And, if they take off to Mexico for a month in April for some "training", they don't have WADA banging on their doors and asking for a sample. Then, if they are caught, they get a whole big four game suspension. Cyclists? Two years. It is a joke. Baseball is even more of a joke.

    Either Armstrong dopes or he doesn't, but until he is caught, he is clean, and that is all there is to it.
    I agree with your points about cycling vs other sports, but the contention "never been caught means CLEAN" seems specious at best.

    http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/...172709693.html

    Oh, and the WADA official EPO page http://http://www.wada-ama.org/en/Re...EPO-Detection/

    The conservative approach used in the initial phase of implementation of the method allowed a large number of EPO abusers to escape detection.

    Consistent with the advancing science in anti-doping, work is done on an ongoing basis on all detection methods to refine their sensitivity and the interpretation of results. In the case of EPO, based on expert consensus, new interpretation criteria are introduced as science advances for a more discriminant reading of EPO results.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by smmokan
    Last time I checked Lance never tested positive.

    If you're basing your allegations on what the f*cking liar Landis said, you should reconsider where you get your information. That guy's a douchebag and a f*cking liar to all extremes of the word.
    I agree that Landis is a sh!tbag, but there is much more evidence to point that there is likely rampant DOPING.
    which I personally think athletes should be able to use/do PED LEGALLY.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by smmokan
    Last time I checked Lance never tested positive.
    Neither did Ivan Basso or Jan Ullrich or any # of pro athletes in any # of sports. Lance also never denies using PED's, just that he hasn't tested positive. That's about as big of a non-denial as there is.

    I hope work picks up on Monday cause the LA fanboys are about to implode and it's just too easy.

    Edit for linky: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycli...-details_x.htm
    Last edited by concretejungle; 05-21-2010 at 02:14 PM.

  15. #15
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    Whether LA is a doper or not, Landis is a sniveling b*tch for making the accusations he is. The whole thing reminds me of being 5 and trying to divert attention away from my stealing cookies by ratting out everyone else around me (not that I did steal those cookies).

    Now history will remember him as not only a doper, but a whining, backstabbing doper.
    Now with more vitriol!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla
    Whether LA is a doper or not, Landis is a sniveling b*tch for making the accusations he is. The whole thing reminds me of being 5 and trying to divert attention away from my stealing cookies by ratting out everyone else around me (not that I did steal those cookies).

    Now history will remember him as not only a doper, but a whining, backstabbing doper.
    Or someone who has realized the error of his ways and is trying to clean up the sport of cycling. Your version history will differ from some.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by concretejungle
    Or someone who has realized the error of his ways and is trying to clean up the sport of cycling. Your version history will differ from some.
    Nah, you're right. It's not like it's been widely known that professional cycling is rife with PED use for years now.

    They should give him a medal, for acting in such altruistic fashion during this - his time of suffering.
    Now with more vitriol!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla
    Nah, you're right. It's not like it's been widely known that professional cycling is rife with PED use for years now.

    They should give him a medal, for acting in such altruistic fashion during this - his time of suffering.
    And they say you can't change minds arguing on the internetz.

    In other news T-minus an hour until I never have to work in Aurora again. Not really sure why they had me come in today. Thank god for the intrawebz and this Landis/LA mess or I would have been really bored.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by concretejungle
    Neither did Ivan Basso or Jan Ullrich or any # of pro athletes in any # of sports. Lance also never denies using PED's, just that he hasn't tested positive. That's about as big of a non-denial as there is.
    yeah, the whole Lance 'nuthugger' groupie thing boggles my mind.
    Yes, he is a tremendous athlete, who has done (7 tour victories), and overcome (testicular cancer) HUGE things in his life.

    That being said, I think it's pretty much a forgone conclusion that he is doing something shady.

    I have nothing to hide, Armstrong during a news conference with the press out at the Tour of California.

    I think history speaks for itself here, Armstrong continued.

    We have nothing to hide. We have nothing to run from.


    Its our word against his word, Armstrong remarked. I like our word. We like our credibility. Floyd lost his credibility a long time ago.
    why not just deny the allegations...........that response sounds like an attorney speaking.
    or Bill Clinton.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by concretejungle
    Neither did Ivan Basso or Jan Ullrich or any # of pro athletes in any # of sports. Lance also never denies using PED's, just that he hasn't tested positive. That's about as big of a non-denial as there is.

    I hope work picks up on Monday cause the LA fanboys are about to implode and it's just too easy.

    Edit for linky: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycli...-details_x.htm
    Pro road cycling is a joke. There are 2 kinds of professional cyclist: those who dope, and those who get caught doping. Yes, Landis has no credibility, but he's got absolutely nothing left to lose. Just with the Lance accusers of the past (Frankie Andreu), the Armstrong character assassination team has cranked up to tear down and discredit Landis as much as possible. How many ex-USPS riders got nabbed! They learned the system somewhere. I wonder if Tyler Hamilton will come clean too. So from the late 90's, early 2000's posties, you have Heras, Hamilton, Landis, Pena, Beltran, Salvoldelli, O'Bee...on and on.

  21. #21
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    People said that Jose Canseco was a lying sack of sh&* that was full of sour grapes when he wrote his tell all. He had no credibility and was a full scale chump. Afterwards all of his allegations were proven true as one by one, the sports icons confessed. That means he is still a sack of sh&* - just not a lying sack of sh&*.

    I'm still on the fence but my weight is shifting more and more to the side of "everyone dopes"...

    This is one more weight in that side of the scale.

  22. #22
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    I'm here to post in this very important and enlightening thread.

  23. #23
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    Texas trailer trash usually doesn't dope, just drink a lot. Let's talk about how team Trek ruined the Leadville 100 by turning it into a road race. Now there's something to whine about.

  24. #24
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    If Landis was doping for years and only got caught once (and even now he says he was using hgh, not the steriod he tested positive for), it shows how bad/behind the times the testing is. If he can be tested for years on end and only tests positive once, WADA and other drug testers should hang their heads and work on improving their testing.

    Pro riders apparently know how to scam the system and really limit their chance of getting caught.

    What Landis is mad about is the system. Most top riders dope but when one gets caught, they are expected to go quietly (like Tyler Hamilton), i.e. get thrown to the wolves while staying quiet and protecting the rest of the peloton.

    FYI, the funny thing about the Amgen Tour of California is that Amgen, the main sponsor, is the drug company that makes EPO. Nice to those ads splashed everywhere on a pro event.

  25. #25
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    they sponsored it to help clean up...i mean literally or uh figuratively

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by russman
    Pro road cycling is a joke. There are 2 kinds of professional cyclist: those who dope, and those who get caught doping.
    That pretty much nails it.

    EPO is said to boost aerobic performance by 10-20%. It is a given that professional cyclists are the elite of the elite, genetically gifted and trained to the optimum possible in human performance. It's also a FACT that PED's such as EPO are rampant in the pro cycling peloton, and the busts and admissions just keep on coming.

    To believe that there are clean pro cyclists who can successfully compete against doped pro cyclists is to believe in super-humans who naturally are 10-20% more gifted than the elites who are doped up. Sorry, even Eddy Merckx wasn't that guy. Nor was Lance Armstrong.

    The existence of Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairly and Big Foot are more plausible beliefs.
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  27. #27
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    When I saw the DP news story titled, 'Landis Fingers Armstrong', I thought something kinky was going on........



    Athletes aren't the only folks who need dope.
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    Player Hater #1

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  29. #29
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    Soooo what will the Leadville 100 do to Lance if/when he fesses up?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ignazjr
    Soooo what will the Leadville 100 do to Lance if/when he fesses up?
    Either nothing or charge him with felony. No middle ground.

  31. #31
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    You forgot the most important part !

    What would Floyd or Lance do on the Front Range

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by onbelaydave
    What would Floyd or Lance do on the Front Range
    Which brings up the important question, "what is the best doping method for the FR?"
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by lubes17319
    Which brings up the important question, "what is the best doping method for the FR?"
    .... it was only a matter of time
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  34. #34
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    If they really want to clean up cycling, they should just allow all the pro teams to dope as much they want. It will take about 10 years or so, but when the youth sees what happens to all of the pros that dope when they go Lyle Alzedo at 45 then maybe there won't be the desire to dope.

    The fact that Armstrong has been sponsored by Bristol-Meyers Squibb since his cancer days should cause suspicion. One of the most powerful drug companies in the world is probably more than 1 step ahead of WADA testing, more like 12 steps (pun intended).

    The thing I find amusing is how Lemond has thrown accusations towards a lot of racers, but mostly Armstrong. Lemond had the fastest TT speed in the TdF up until a few years ago, meaning he held a record for 16 years or so, over the so-called doping years racers. Does he expect me to believe that he did nothing and held a record for a LONG time over racers with better equipment, training techniques AND drugs? Give me a break. If Lemond wants to clean up the sport, he needs to come clean too.

    They're all dopers. Give me back the days when the only doping in cycling was a little reefer on a mountain top.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt
    To believe that there are clean pro cyclists who can successfully compete against doped pro cyclists is to believe in super-humans who naturally are 10-20% more gifted than the elites who are doped up. Sorry, even Eddy Merckx wasn't that guy. Nor was Lance Armstrong.
    What you're leaving out is that there's only one guy who not through any choice of his own, chemically destroyed every muscle in his body, and then built back only those that would specifically help him to compete in cycling. It's kind of hard to compare him to anyone else, as no one else has tried the same thing.
    That being said, he could've also built it back through EPD, but that's yet to be proven...
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    I think I was one of the last hold-outs, one of those who wanted to believe the Landis's and Hamiltons of the world were too honest to lie to us, their gullible fans. When Landis was charged with doping and freakin' spent $2 million on his defense, surely he'd been wronged.

    And now he admits it. I give up. I join the ranks of those who all along have said they all dope, it's just who gets caught. I guess it doesn't matter the consequences of if you do get caught, it's the immediate results. Which is why I believed those who most vehemently denied their drug test results.

    Who's next, Contador? When will he get caught? Is it even possible, in these days of modern times, to compete in the highest tier of cycling without doping? How about testing everyone every stage of every race, thereby throwing everyone out the first day of competition. That will fix it, right? Hah!

    The drama of the races (I love watching the TDF, dopers or not) is too compelling. Here we got the racers, here we have the dopers who just got caught...great TV for the advertisers.

    I'll still watch the TDF, it's still a spectacle of absurd demands put on one's atheleticism and endurance. And, I guess, his fine choice of drugs.
    So it seems to me to be, this thing that I think I see.

  37. #37
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    Something that seems to be lost in the mix is that EPO is used primarily to boost blood cell production in people recovering from chemotherapy. That is why it was created in the first place. It's just a side effect that it boosts performance. Lance was prescribed EPO during his recovery. The details of how much he used and when he stopped using are fuzzy, however...
    Also, one big reason EPO is frowned upon by WADA / UCI is that is carcinogenic. More specifically, it is known to cause testicular cancer.

    On a lighter note, I would love to see the All Dope Pro Tour. Sort of like top-fuel drag racing. Imagine someone's heart bursting right out of their chest cavity and blood spurting all over the crowds on Alpe de Huez!
    Is this where I write something witty?

  38. #38
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    Mascot for the 'Lance Don't Dope Club'

    But I'll still watch the tour.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails LANDIS and LANCE DOPING? GTFO-ostrich.jpg  


  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by djlee
    On a lighter note, I would love to see the All Dope Pro Tour. Sort of like top-fuel drag racing. Imagine someone's heart bursting right out of their chest cavity and blood spurting all over the crowds on Alpe de Huez!
    If you've followed professional cycling from the late 80's, then you've already been watching an All Dope Pro Tour. And there have been plenty of casualties, although not as graphic as the one you picture. But damn close.

    http://outside.away.com/outside/news...ing_epo_1.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles
    I'm here to post in this very important and enlightening thread.
    SUPER, thanks.
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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by djlee
    Also, one big reason EPO is frowned upon by WADA / UCI is that is carcinogenic. More specifically, it is known to cause testicular cancer.
    Please reference this post.
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt
    If you've followed professional cycling from the late 80's, then you've already been watching an All Dope Pro Tour. And there have been plenty of casualties, although not as graphic as the one you picture. But damn close.

    http://outside.away.com/outside/news...ing_epo_1.html

    yeah, I think that is really the point in all of this.
    what lenghts, and how far are people willing to go in order to be the 'best'.

    personally, I have spoken to a world class athlete who told me point blank, "I either had to start taking steroids to break the top twenty, or just retire, as I would not ever compete with all of the other top athletes (as they were ALL taking banned PED)"

    just like there are 'natural' body building tournaments.
    obviously, the human body can be supplemented to reach greater heights than without certain substances.

    I can even see the argument, that sports drink could be considered a PED.
    by that argument, you could ban many things in sports today.
    protein, electrolytes, liquid gels, Nitric Oxide, caffeine, etc.

    again, personally, I think athletes should be OK to use ANYTHING that they want to enhance performance.
    I would not call it cheating, as long as all had the option to do so.
    whether or not an athlete chose to do so is their own personal chioce.
    also, the notion that somehow this is unethical..............then every technological innovation we have had in the past 100 years should be banned.
    deraileurs, aluminum, carbon fiber, clipless pedals, hydration systems, breathable fabrics, etc.
    all of the above items have ENHANCED sporting performance, so why are they not considered illegal.

    should there be a weight requirement for bicycles?
    should there be weight classes for cycling?
    why do we have age groups for bike events?

    I guess the issue to me is this 'conditional morality' that the governing bodies implement on athletes in the interest of 'fairness'.
    sports by definition is NEVER FAIR.
    genetics, and money will almost always trump those of equal heart and commitment.
    so why do we (as a society) entertain the notion that 'the best man always wins', when it is patently obvious that the best athlete who is also the best at gaming the system is usually the champion?

    just some thoughts.
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by djlee
    Also, one big reason EPO is frowned upon by WADA / UCI is that is carcinogenic. More specifically, it is known to cause testicular cancer.
    Interesting article by Steven J. Milloy. According to his Wiki page Mr Milloy "...is the "junk science" commentator for FoxNews.com and runs the Web site junkscience.com, which is dedicated to debunking what Milloy labels "faulty scientific data and analysis." He is a self-described libertarian, in the American sense of the term." Mr. Milloy claims that "...no published studies link the other performance enhancing drugs mentioned by Swift – that is, testosterone, cortisone, human growth hormone, and EPO – with testicular cancer. "

    Full article here: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,213881,00.html

  44. #44
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    exactly

    Even if Sports Illustrated said so



    Please feel free to use EPO without fear of cancer

    and

    Please use anabolic steroids without fear of testicular cancer.



    Thank You
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

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