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  1. #1
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    Keystone... What happened to you..

    Is there a trail crew up there? Have you given up on mtn bikes?

    Was there yesterday and wow is it in bad shape and nothing new..

    Not too long ago Keystone was the place to go, but that is changing fast, or maybe it has already changed seeing as there were very few riders there on a Saturday.

    Sad..
    BBZ

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  2. #2
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    I still dig the tech. But yeah, the flowy stuff is lagging when compared to WP/SV

    I like it there, though. I'm a rock hoar.

  3. #3
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    Family is going to Keystone again this summer after vacationing in WP the last two years.

    I had tons of fun in WP last summer, was getting the feel for the (relatively) easy jumps. Not all the jumps, just the easier ones.

    My son is pretty good and enjoys the challenge of the tech trails. He also goes big when he wants to - he did the biggest jaws drop five times last time we were there. But at WP the only trail that really challenged him was the Crankworx (pro?) downhill. He took me down it once, but I had to walk too many sections - you know, kinda roll or toss the bike down the section and then scramble down, get the bike and go to the next tough section.

    As I recall Keystone has lots of techy trails, but we have not been there for while.

    Here's hoping Keystone is good starting today!

    Happy trails,
    TR

  4. #4
    Oh, So Interesting!
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    I really like Keystone but it needs some work on the chatter in a few places. It's no worse than the rivers of rock and dust that can be found at Sol. It's the mountains, they are rocky and bumpy. I like the tech on Milky>H S Dirt>Jam Rock and the long runs.

  5. #5
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    IMO -- the chatter and bumps are awesome-- the trail crew keeps taking out rocks and roots on certain trails its DH-- lets leave it DH-- -- but they NEED new trails-- they need to build 1 full green, blue, and black from top to bottom-- when I go w/ my girlfriend it is more obvious that they need a good smooth flowy trail

  6. #6
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    I couldn't disagree more. Rode there all day yesterday and loved every minute of it. I will admit that WP is stepping up and getting better and better (after being totally stagnant for the last 6 years) However, I can't scare myself at WP like I can at Keystone. The trail crew at Keystone are friends of mine and in their entirity, they are only a couple dudes. This isn't their fault, blame Vail resorts.

    Things are on their way to being more buffed out and there are several new trails in the works. My only complaint from the whole resort was the brake bumps going in to Mom's berms on $.
    "Put the Fun Between Your Legs."

  7. #7
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    Did they resume the free water at the summit? Lack of free water really showed me what Keystone thinks of their customers. Lack of trail maintenance was a bummer, but I agree with the comments about rough riding being part of the sport. Heck, I was spoiled back east by places like Diablo, Highland, and even Sunday River. I rarely find myself doing any DH out here anymore because the CO resorts are so far behind everyone else with trail design, maintenance, and progression-oriented jump design. Hopefully WP will come around with the Whistler guys up there.

  8. #8
    Shinobi-Wan Kenobi Moderator
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    It seems to me like the sport of DH is splitting into two camps. One group of people seem to like what I think of as classic DH--steep, rocky and rooty trails and a few drops or jumps thrown in. The second group seems to favor smoother "flow" trails like Silky Johnson at Sol Vista or ShyAnn/Rainmaker at Winter Park--trails that are mostly berms and jumps.

    I definitely prefer the classic DH, and I'm looking forward to riding Keystone on Saturday (for the first time this season) because I feel like they have better "DH". Sol Vista caters well to both groups with great DH trails and great flow trails. Winter Park seems more on the flow side of the equation with Trestle being their only "DH" trail.

    After reading your post, I'm curious what I think about Keystone's conditions being in bad shape. I've been riding there for 12 seasons now and I've seen the trails evolve (and devolve) quite a bit during that time. Hopefully things haven't devolved too much this year!

  9. #9
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    Interesting.

    This is pretty much an exact repeat of the skiing debates: Groomers vs. Moguls.

    Or, Moguls vs. Park skiing


    The answer is yes...

    I've been to all three CO areas this year, and IMHO, all are great in their own ways.

    Keystone has more ladders and more sick terrain.

    Winter Park has cool flow and some nice stunts, but the top of Trestle DH is basically a long exercise in sliding your rear wheel, for me anyway.

    SolVista has the rocky downhills with jumps and berms along the way, AND the infamous Silky Johnson, but not as much terrain or vertical.

    99% of the country would love to have any of the three.

    Keystone was weirdly empty when I was there, too. One thing I have noticed is that a lot more people are hitting SV and Trestle and renting, and I don't know if the Keystone rental situation is as together as SV or WP. Holy crap do they have nice bikes and gear at SV. I can't believe they rent stuff that good. And holy crap to they have a LOT of bikes and gear at WP....hundreds....what is the rental situation at Keystone? I know most of the people on MTBR probably don't rent, but if it takes more business to justify more trails/maintenance at Keystone, maybe the rentals are the issue? Cost/availability/quality? I don't know, so I'm just asking.

    Oddly enough, lift-served mountain biking seems to have a lot of the same issues/factors as lift-served skiing. Who would have thought?

  10. #10
    Shinobi-Wan Kenobi Moderator
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    I like your Moguls vs. Park analogy--that seems to sum it up pretty well.

    What I don't totally get is the reputation of Trestle DH--it seems like solid riders are shying away from that trail. It was by far my favorite trail of the day on Saturday, but I only got in one run because no one else wanted to hit it. It seems to have that reputation online too. I think all three of the DH courses at Anglefire are more gnarly than Trestle, and there are several non-resort DH trails that give me pucker factor way higher than Tdh. If Winter Park had a few more Trestle DHs, I would be there every weekend! (but then again, I'm not a park skier )

  11. #11
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    Yes - stick to moguls or park or groomers.

    Leave the really good stuff to the professionals.


  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles
    Yes - stick to moguls or park or groomers.

    Leave the really good stuff to the technicians.

    fixed that for you

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by kristian
    I like your Moguls vs. Park analogy--that seems to sum it up pretty well.

    What I don't totally get is the reputation of Trestle DH--it seems like solid riders are shying away from that trail. It was by far my favorite trail of the day on Saturday, but I only got in one run because no one else wanted to hit it. It seems to have that reputation online too. I think all three of the DH courses at Anglefire are more gnarly than Trestle, and there are several non-resort DH trails that give me pucker factor way higher than Tdh. If Winter Park had a few more Trestle DHs, I would be there every weekend! (but then again, I'm not a park skier )

    I love Cougar, Cheezeit, Buc Nasty at SV, I love Cowboy Up/Motorhead/Paid In Full at Keystone and Milky Way down. I rode some great stuff at Whistler last Summer that I don't remember the names of. I like that stuff.

    Honestly, I only rode it once, but the Trestle DH seemed kind of pointless. It had nothing to do with "gnarly" and everything to do with "fun". The top is just sliding back and forth on some switchbacks. Then, there are the little climbing sections? OK...then finally, near the bottom it becomes a little more "normal", but no, I saw nothing on that trail for me but an early replacement of my rear brake pads.

    I'll ride it again next time I am up there, but it just didn't seem like a lot of fun.

    It is in the same vein for me as skiing the Notches at A-Basin. You want to do them to say you did them but for repeated runs, you find something a little more fun.

    Be happy. One less rider to chew it up.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonnySpitz
    Did they resume the free water at the summit? Lack of free water really showed me what Keystone thinks of their customers. Lack of trail maintenance was a bummer, but I agree with the comments about rough riding being part of the sport. Heck, I was spoiled back east by places like Diablo, Highland, and even Sunday River. I rarely find myself doing any DH out here anymore because the CO resorts are so far behind everyone else with trail design, maintenance, and progression-oriented jump design. Hopefully WP will come around with the Whistler guys up there.
    Exactly.. I just got back from my annual Pacific NW trip and CO resorts are far behind the times..

    Keystone could be really good I think if they devoted some time to it.. new trails would be great, but honestly building tons of berms would be great to in order to create more flow.. and some progressive jump lines would be nice..

    I don't think there is anything technically challenging at Keystone but a few steep spots, but they aren't all that difficult, no real pucker factor..
    BBZ

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  15. #15
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    If I could just import a few trails.. maybe A-Line.. Reaper and the Parallel trail.. that would be nice.
    BBZ

    Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy - Benjamin Franklin

  16. #16
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    I wonder what the economics of resort DH are. It takes a fair amount of money to keep even a fairly small trail crew, lift crew and mechanics (even if it's only one lift), power to run the lifts, some kind of medical staff, etc to keep a resort open. Maybe putting a ton of work (work = $) into the trail system is a money looser for the amount of revenue ticket sales and season passes generate. I'll guess that summer lift served biking doesn't generate much in the way of real estate sales which is what corporate ski areas are about any more.

    I don't know one way or another, just musing out loud.

  17. #17
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    As for new trails, they have a master plan with many new trails awaiting final Forest Service approval. Word is it looks good and should be approved by late summer. Probably not gonna get anything new ready to ride till next summer. As for crappy jumps, yeah they need to do some work. Maintenance, I think the lips and berms are fine. The rough, loose areas are rough and loose on purpose. Don't complain if you ride anything smaller than a full-on DH bike. If you see the survey girl around the base area answer her questions and specifically ask for more/longer jumps. Keystone is very corporate and makes decisions based on "market research" rather than common sense/just looking around. You think they'd have noticed how many riders they've lost to WP/Sol Vista.

    Edit: Responding to the money question posted above. Many of these resorts (definitely Keystone) would run the lift anyway for sightseers/hikers. Compared to all the other employees they have to keep around daily a few trail builders is nothing. Biking revenue used to be questionable but the increasing number of downhillers and their increasing age and wealth mean significant condo rental, bike shop, and restaurant revenue. Just look at Whistler on a weekend. Mountain managers have caught on by now but they have to convince upper management and the Forest Service to embrace MTBing the way they have skiing.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit
    Interesting.

    This is pretty much an exact repeat of the skiing debates: Groomers vs. Moguls.

    Or, Moguls vs. Park skiing


    The answer is yes...

    I've been to all three CO areas this year, and IMHO, all are great in their own ways.

    Keystone has more ladders and more sick terrain.

    Winter Park has cool flow and some nice stunts, but the top of Trestle DH is basically a long exercise in sliding your rear wheel, for me anyway.

    SolVista has the rocky downhills with jumps and berms along the way, AND the infamous Silky Johnson, but not as much terrain or vertical.

    99% of the country would love to have any of the three.

    Keystone was weirdly empty when I was there, too. One thing I have noticed is that a lot more people are hitting SV and Trestle and renting, and I don't know if the Keystone rental situation is as together as SV or WP. Holy crap do they have nice bikes and gear at SV. I can't believe they rent stuff that good. And holy crap to they have a LOT of bikes and gear at WP....hundreds....what is the rental situation at Keystone? I know most of the people on MTBR probably don't rent, but if it takes more business to justify more trails/maintenance at Keystone, maybe the rentals are the issue? Cost/availability/quality? I don't know, so I'm just asking.

    Oddly enough, lift-served mountain biking seems to have a lot of the same issues/factors as lift-served skiing. Who would have thought?

    Good observation on equipment. we have 164 bikes actually plus a dozen on season long lease. 64 of them are demo level such as 303's, Aline, scott Voltage and demo 8 II's. Free Ride Friday saw > 120 bikes out just between 4 and 7. definatley the availablity of bikes helps drive success in the park.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by kristian
    It seems to me like the sport of DH is splitting into two camps. One group of people seem to like what I think of as classic DH--steep, rocky and rooty trails and a few drops or jumps thrown in. The second group seems to favor smoother "flow" trails like Silky Johnson at Sol Vista or ShyAnn/Rainmaker at Winter Park--trails that are mostly berms and jumps.
    That's pretty much what I see happening as well. But I ride it all. Some days I want to jump and flow and some days I want to survive the steep chunder.

    Pedal Park, er I mean Winter Park is definitely going the route of the groomed terrain park. Trestle DH is actually a fun "classic" DH trail but it's just a black IMO. I rode WP yesterday and was tired from the constant mashing to clear tables not from the beaating I take from the rocky terrain at Keystone. But I had a great time nontheless.

    I'm surprised no one ever talks about the gnarliest DH in CO. First rule about Gnar DH club... Talk about pucker factor.

  20. #20
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    They both have their pros and cons.... regardless, I see Trestle investing in the trails more recently. I've heard management at keystone just isn't what it used to be... but I know some of the builders and realize there are politics.
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  21. #21
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    I'm surprised no one ever talks about the gnarliest DH in CO. First rule about Gnar DH club... Talk about pucker factor.[/QUOTE]

    gotta be some of the body armor in the shop after a busy weekend? Thats gnarly until it goes thru laundry

  22. #22
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndecentExposure
    My sweat attracts cougars. Don't wash it.
    Don't wash it! Bottle it. . . .


    As far as forest service approval at keystone (correct me if I am wrong) but it is my understanding that they have it---- I am guessing they just don't want to invest right now (or ever). Also, I know some of the keystone guys like it smooooth too. . . . so why don't they build a 4x or dual x and jumps at the mountain base?? IMO- smoothing out brake bumps EVER YEAR is kinda pointless. Most of the DH bikes we are all riding are built for world cup courses= full sleds. And keystone is not as rough as these so a few good smashy hard sections are good. But. . . . a few good smooth flowy trails are good too and keystone needs more.

    The park right now is being run by the same women who shut down DH biking at Beaver Creek (which I can understand as a marketing niche concern)-- but I guess we will see how this goes

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmrider
    The park right now is being run by the same woman who shut down DH biking at Beaver Creek.
    With the amount of talent in Summit County (and the Denver area) I'm amazed at the idiots Vail Corp has in high positions. It's like the larger the business the worse it can be run and still get away with it.
    Keep the Country country.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutchie
    Good observation on equipment. we have 164 bikes actually plus a dozen on season long lease. 64 of them are demo level such as 303's, Aline, scott Voltage and demo 8 II's. Free Ride Friday saw > 120 bikes out just between 4 and 7. definatley the availablity of bikes helps drive success in the park.

    I was blown away by the sheer number of bikes you guys have. I would have taken a photo if I had my camera. That must be a lot of wrenching, and the knowledge you guys gain about what holds up and what doesn't must be priceless to the bike industry. It is like a giant durability laboratory.

  26. #26
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    This is the longest thread I have seen debating bike parks without degenerating into fanboys trading smears.
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  27. #27
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    I like riding my bike, so I enjoy all the resorts. Variety is great. I mostly agree with the comments about Keystone, it's lost a bit of it's luster. It's still worthy of a couple trips a year though...

    This is the third year I've bought a season pass at Winter Park. I'm very pleased with the improvements this year. All the trails serve as great practice, either for fitness (Long), cornering (Cheyanne), flat out speed (Boulevard), or technical (Trestle). Double Jeopardy rocks too, and when combined with some others makes for a long ride down.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lelandjt
    As for new trails, they have a master plan with many new trails awaiting final Forest Service approval. Word is it looks good and should be approved by late summer. Probably not gonna get anything new ready to ride till next summer. As for crappy jumps, yeah they need to do some work. Maintenance, I think the lips and berms are fine. The rough, loose areas are rough and loose on purpose. Don't complain if you ride anything smaller than a full-on DH bike. If you see the survey girl around the base area answer her questions and specifically ask for more/longer jumps. Keystone is very corporate and makes decisions based on "market research" rather than common sense/just looking around. You think they'd have noticed how many riders they've lost to WP/Sol Vista.

    Edit: Responding to the money question posted above. Many of these resorts (definitely Keystone) would run the lift anyway for sightseers/hikers. Compared to all the other employees they have to keep around daily a few trail builders is nothing. Biking revenue used to be questionable but the increasing number of downhillers and their increasing age and wealth mean significant condo rental, bike shop, and restaurant revenue. Just look at Whistler on a weekend. Mountain managers have caught on by now but they have to convince upper management and the Forest Service to embrace MTBing the way they have skiing.
    well said.. seems like they are losing lots of riders, which is costing them money in the long run.. Whistler is a zoo on a weekend, can't believe how many people they have riding up there.. but I guess that is what happens when you make it really good..
    BBZ

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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by billybobzia
    I don't think there is anything technically challenging at Keystone but a few steep spots, but they aren't all that difficult, no real pucker factor..
    Have you rode this line? This line scares me. Roll, then X marks the spot to huck. Maybe if I rode it every day I'd be used to it.





    You know what's scary is if you take a random XC or Trail bike down, then you should feel some fear if pucker is what you want.

    I've never rode WP or Sol Vista. Keystone has the Paid in Full skinnies to drop which I really like along with that new skinny going to East Forest. They don't really scare me but I like old school Freeride rather than just smooth balls out speed all the time.

    Jaws scared the heck out of me. Too bad it's out of commish.

    Hey Noah!

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mouse jockey
    Have you rode this line? This line scares me. Roll, then X marks the spot to huck. Maybe if I rode it every day I'd be used to it.





    You know what's scary is if you take a random XC or Trail bike down, then you should feel some fear if pucker is what you want.

    I've never rode WP or Sol Vista. Keystone has the Paid in Full skinnies to drop which I really like along with that new skinny going to East Forest. They don't really scare me but I like old school Freeride rather than just smooth balls out speed all the time.

    Jaws scared the heck out of me. Too bad it's out of commish.

    Hey Noah!

    Yup, those are fun lines for sure.. but really the only steep on the mountain... I like the skinnies too, but far too few of them... I like the combo of old school and fast with jumps..

    check out some vids of Cypress mtn in Vancouver (or Seymour, or the Woodlot).. thats some fun, steep stuff.. and then a bunch of jumps.. wish I could deal with the NW weather, I am amazed by that section of the country (yes, Washington and Oregon too).. Jackson has some nice trails too, heading there in a couple weeks..
    BBZ

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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by billybobzia
    check out some vids of Cypress mtn in Vancouver (or Seymour, or the Woodlot).. thats some fun, steep stuff.. and then a bunch of jumps.. wish I could deal with the NW weather, I am amazed by that section of the country (yes, Washington and Oregon too).. Jackson has some nice trails too, heading there in a couple weeks..
    Yea! I am part of a small email group and we are always forwarding videos to eachother of Cypress mtn , Seymour, Woodlot, Bellingham, etc. I know what you are talking about. The weather, yea, that's my consolation of not having perfect dirt 3 months out of the year and then not riding the remainder.

    What about the secret stuff in the springs area?!? shh, shh...

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by mouse jockey
    Yea! I am part of a small email group and we are always forwarding videos to eachother of Cypress mtn , Seymour, Woodlot, Bellingham, etc. I know what you are talking about. The weather, yea, that's my consolation of not having perfect dirt 3 months out of the year and then not riding the remainder.

    What about the secret stuff in the springs area?!? shh, shh...

    shh, shh.. yup, i know..

    We got to the NW this year just after something crazy like 66 days of rain and were blessed with the most amazing dirt ever.. except the woodlot which was a little muddy..
    BBZ

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    how do you upload a video?
    BBZ

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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by billybobzia
    how do you upload a video?
    Upload it to vimeo or youtube. Either site will give you the html to embed it here.

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    video

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R72xuZzDbjQ

    first try, not sure if it will work
    BBZ

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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by billybobzia
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R72xuZzDbjQ

    first try, not sure if it will work

    OK. We'll take 3 or 4 trails just like that. My season pass $$ goes wherever they do!!
    Quote Originally Posted by thump View Post
    How about we take the "let it burn approach" with the rotting cesspool of the Denver metro?

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    black rock, Oregon

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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by zrm
    I wonder what the economics of resort DH are. It takes a fair amount of money to keep even a fairly small trail crew, lift crew and mechanics (even if it's only one lift), power to run the lifts, some kind of medical staff, etc to keep a resort open. Maybe putting a ton of work (work = $) into the trail system is a money looser for the amount of revenue ticket sales and season passes generate. I'll guess that summer lift served biking doesn't generate much in the way of real estate sales which is what corporate ski areas are about any more.

    I don't know one way or another, just musing out loud.
    see rental posting

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado
    I like riding my bike, so I enjoy all the resorts. Variety is great. I mostly agree with the comments about Keystone, it's lost a bit of it's luster. It's still worthy of a couple trips a year though...

    This is the third year I've bought a season pass at Winter Park. I'm very pleased with the improvements this year. All the trails serve as great practice, either for fitness (Long), cornering (Cheyanne), flat out speed (Boulevard), or technical (Trestle). Double Jeopardy rocks too, and when combined with some others makes for a long ride down.

    Where is the [x] Like button for this post!

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by backcountryislife
    OK. We'll take 3 or 4 trails just like that. My season pass $$ goes wherever they do!!
    think we might have to build them ourselves..
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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by billybobzia
    For future references there's a button called "Embed" at the bottom you can use to get the embed code. Just copy what it pops up and paste it here.

    <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/R72xuZzDbjQ&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/R72xuZzDbjQ&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

    <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8tG_t2eFhI8&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8tG_t2eFhI8&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit
    Interesting.

    This is pretty much an exact repeat of the skiing debates: Groomers vs. Moguls.

    Or, Moguls vs. Park skiing


    The answer is yes...

    I've been to all three CO areas this year, and IMHO, all are great in their own ways.

    Keystone has more ladders and more sick terrain.

    Winter Park has cool flow and some nice stunts, but the top of Trestle DH is basically a long exercise in sliding your rear wheel, for me anyway.

    SolVista has the rocky downhills with jumps and berms along the way, AND the infamous Silky Johnson, but not as much terrain or vertical.

    99% of the country would love to have any of the three.

    Keystone was weirdly empty when I was there, too. One thing I have noticed is that a lot more people are hitting SV and Trestle and renting, and I don't know if the Keystone rental situation is as together as SV or WP. Holy crap do they have nice bikes and gear at SV. I can't believe they rent stuff that good. And holy crap to they have a LOT of bikes and gear at WP....hundreds....what is the rental situation at Keystone? I know most of the people on MTBR probably don't rent, but if it takes more business to justify more trails/maintenance at Keystone, maybe the rentals are the issue? Cost/availability/quality? I don't know, so I'm just asking.

    Oddly enough, lift-served mountain biking seems to have a lot of the same issues/factors as lift-served skiing. Who would have thought?
    How about blower vs cement? None of this groomer BS.
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by karpiel666
    How about blower vs cement? None of this groomer BS.
    You leave that to the professionals, son.

  44. #44
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    is the embed button on youtube or mtbr.. not seeing it..
    BBZ

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  45. #45
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    Yeah, buddy!
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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by billybobzia
    is the embed button on youtube or mtbr.. not seeing it..
    youtube, I'm seeing it under the vid screen on the right. It says '&lt;Embed&gt;' on the button.

    Edit: PM me if you want more info so we aren't hijacking (anymore than we have )

  47. #47
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    So there's no steep, rocky, gnarly DH in CO? Really gnarly?

  48. #48
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    Anything steep gets destroyed quickly because the dirt and rocks don't hold together. It's also hard to ride because your tires don't grip like on Pac NW soil. We had some really steep sections on French Creek (gone due to development) and I know of some other secret shuttle trails that are steep but the resorts need their trails to be sustainable and steep+loose is not sustainable.
    Keep the Country country.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by wormvine
    So there's no steep, rocky, gnarly DH in CO? Really gnarly?
    Yeah there is. But it sucks so no one rides it
    You have just been mentally Rick Roll'd. Yup you're thinking about it right now aren't you? Don't fight it.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lelandjt
    the resorts need their trails to be sustainable and steep+loose is not sustainable.
    No doubt. The waterfall section at Snowmass this year was smooth and worry free on day one. By race day, there was a narrow line through the rocks and dust. Speaking as someone who has a experience with a rake, I would hate to maintain that kind of line.
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    Interesting Thread

    I'd have to agree with the General Statement that Keystone isn't focusing as much on DH as they were quite a few years back. Keystone was pretty much the place a few years back when DH started to take off. The thing that kind of sucked last season was the detour you had to take to get back to the lift. Kind of a hassle and it seemed like they didn't cater to the MTB'ers as much as the other resorts. I noticed WP had what appeared to be a little bike maintenance shop setup right by the Winter Ticket office which was cool. They also provide water Jugs should you need to hydrate.

    However, I did remember hitting some new stuff that cropped up at Key towards the end of the season last year that was quite cool! For instance, on East Forest after you do the Rock Filter feature they had a cool wooden stunt that was like a 2X4 or something that was about 5-6' high that you dropped onto the transition and then you hit that Jump on the upslope! I did that last season and was stoked! However, I did crash the 2nd time but somehow managed not to hurt myself. They also added that mini drop after the drop zone to allow for a much easier hit that the bigger drop off right next to it. I have yet to make it to Key this season but it's definitely in it's own little league. Also, I ride my XM and AM bike since I don't have a dedicated DH bike. If I did I probably like Key even more. As long as the prices stay down I'll be happy. Sol still wins for Bang for the Buck!

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by billybobzia
    I don't think there is anything technically challenging at Keystone but a few steep spots, but they aren't all that difficult, no real pucker factor..
    Clearly, you are not going fast enough.

    I guess I'll stick up for Keystone. It's a man's mountain. The bit of trail that needs to be smooth is smooth, and that's all you get. It's big mountain riding. Not a moto track with a lift, nor buffed out deer trails that have been there since before mtn bikes were invented. Keystone FTMFW!

    Actually, speaking of smooth and A-line-ish have you seen the new section on Loggers? Never mind, by the sound of this forum, I guess I'll have the whole mtn to myself!
    Biker? I don't even know her.

  53. #53
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    [QUOTE=SylentK]Clearly, you are not going fast enough.

    I will race you.. even though I don't race..

    I don't want a bunch of smooth stuff, but it would be nice to have a little variety.. I am just saying that Keystone has not evolved and has not put effort into their trails.. clearly it was the place to go for many years but it has been pretty stagnant..
    BBZ

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  54. #54
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    "I choose not to race." ....altho I will be at sol vista this weekend, and so should everyone else!

    Yeah, I see your point. I suppose the new gondola and bridge construction are to blame, mosty.
    Biker? I don't even know her.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by SylentK
    "I choose not to race." ....altho I will be at sol vista this weekend, and so should everyone else!

    Yeah, I see your point. I suppose the new gondola and bridge construction are to blame, mosty.
    so, you are chickening out.. figures..
    BBZ

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  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by SylentK
    Clearly, you are not going fast enough.

    I guess I'll stick up for Keystone. It's a man's mountain. The bit of trail that needs to be smooth is smooth, and that's all you get. It's big mountain riding. Not a moto track with a lift, nor buffed out deer trails that have been there since before mtn bikes were invented. Keystone FTMFW!

    Actually, speaking of smooth and A-line-ish have you seen the new section on Loggers? Never mind, by the sound of this forum, I guess I'll have the whole mtn to myself!
    Whats loggers??
    BBZ

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  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by billybobzia
    Whats loggers??
    Loggers Way.

    I was up at keystone on july 4th weekend and it was the first time I had been there in 2 seasons. I had a great time and thought the trails were in excellent condition. You could see sections on TNT and Loggers way that had received maintenance and other sections that were still rough and loose. I thought the variety was excellent as a result. Keystone has legit steep terrain with fun rocks to drop or roll.

    My only issue with Keystone is that it just doesn't seem like they embrace the summer traffic with no water to be had anywhere obvious and a snooty individual working the lifts. (the rest of the crew were awesome).

    Pedaling across suzies cruise to Eye of the Tiger and Helter Skelter was as bad as I remember but the trails were more fun than I remember. (the fact that I have 2 more years of riding DH under my belt probably had something to do with it as well).

    If we only had Keystone as a mountain I would get a season ticket, but with Sol Vista and Winter Park right next to each other keystone still gets relegated down the list for me. I will ride quite a few more days there this year before the Mountain States Cup race there and then likely it will go on hold again for me. (spoiled with choices we are)

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by billybobzia
    I will race you.. even though I don't race..
    Good luck! SylentK isn't exactly slow. I agree, Keystone is a man's mountain. The only serious crash I've had this year was there. Its long, rough and steep in spots. Wild Thing may not be that hard on its own, but try it after racing Milky Way, Jam Rock, etc non stop. You're breathing hard, arms are tired and sweating like crazy (if you're not then you are not racing).

    And it is too bad the unsustainable trails are the fun ones. But 4 lift resorts in a 1.5 hour drive from Denver is awesome and if they have to build sustainable trails to stay in business so be it.
    You have just been mentally Rick Roll'd. Yup you're thinking about it right now aren't you? Don't fight it.

  59. #59
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    [QUOTE=Ithnu]Good luck! SylentK isn't exactly slow. I agree, Keystone is a man's mountain. The only serious crash I've had this year was there. Its long, rough and steep in spots. Wild Thing may not be that hard on its own, but try it after racing Milky Way, Jam Rock, etc non stop. You're breathing hard, arms are tired and sweating like crazy (if you're not then you are not racing).

    SylentK already chickened out.. but I don't race, although no one has accused me of being slow either...
    BBZ

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  60. #60
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    personally I just think more of you need to get out more and see what the rest of the country is doing in terms of mtn bike trails..
    BBZ

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  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by zzsean

    If we only had Keystone as a mountain I would get a season ticket, but with Sol Vista and Winter Park right next to each other keystone still gets relegated down the list for me. I will ride quite a few more days there this year before the Mountain States Cup race there and then likely it will go on hold again for me. (spoiled with choices we are)
    This is a good problem to have
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  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by billybobzia
    but I don't race, although no one has accused me of being slow either...
    I'm not meaning to call either of you out, but that's kinda what racing solves here. Can't argue with the clock.
    You have just been mentally Rick Roll'd. Yup you're thinking about it right now aren't you? Don't fight it.

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    I used to go keystone, now I snowboard and bike at winter park. Plus WP is cheaper.

  64. #64
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    My money is on BBZ!

    You know what would help.
    Turning the snow guns on the sandy trails, or making some sort of automated watering system for the trails. (kinna like SV and the water truck)


  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by WKD-RDR
    You know what would help.
    Turning the snow guns on the sandy trails, or making some sort of automated watering system for the trails.
    <like>

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by ontherun
    I used to go keystone, now I snowboard and bike at winter park. Plus WP is cheaper.
    It also seems to me that there's much less ****** traffic going to WP. I know for Denver folks you've got to deal with 70 anyhow, but it seems like not being on it for 1/2 the drive is worth something? I won't ride skeystoned at all cause scummit sucks on the weekends. Hell, I've got to leave work early on fridays just to get out of here before the ****** wave breaks on the county! (Yeah.. that's the only reason I leave early... )
    Quote Originally Posted by thump View Post
    How about we take the "let it burn approach" with the rotting cesspool of the Denver metro?

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by backcountryislife
    I know for Denver folks you've got to deal with 70 anyhow

    Nope. Ride over Rollins pass!


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    :bluefrown:

    It's called a bike PARK, just like a snowboard PARK. It should be manicured tables, big berms, wallrides, everything that comes with PARK. Who's got the most publicity in terms of parks....it's the one's that do just that. Build stuff that the 4-6" travel bikes can hit and do bar spins, back flips, and huge moto whips on. There's a reason why Keystone DOESN'T make a mainstream video or get a big slopestyle comp...because it's the OLD model.

    Frankly, because Keystone hasn't built anything new nor done a lick of trail maintenance, I'm throwing in the towel on them. I Bought a 5 pack and will use it, but the rest of my money's going to WP and Solvista. AND I LIVE IN SUMMIT COUNTY!

    For those that want to scare themselves at WP, start doing some no-footers, can-cans, bar spins, etc on the jump lines...it'll give you a charge.

    It's exactly like snowboard parks vs. the rest of the mountain. Park should be man made features, not just trails cut through the woods

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by WKD-RDR
    Nope. Ride over Rollins pass!

    Do ya think I could get my Jetta through needle's eye right now? Anybody got a snow report???
    Quote Originally Posted by thump View Post
    How about we take the "let it burn approach" with the rotting cesspool of the Denver metro?

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by backcountryislife
    Do ya think I could get my Jetta through needle's eye right now? Anybody got a snow report???
    I went through it in a '77 Monte Carlo when I was 8...



    It may be a bit tougher these days....

    Last edited by WKD-RDR; 07-15-2010 at 02:46 PM.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by billybobzia
    I will race you.. even though I don't race..
    Just don't race him at Sol Vista, clearly he knows that place...
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  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by MqtRider
    It's called a bike PARK, just like a snowboard PARK. It should be manicured tables, big berms, wallrides, everything that comes with PARK. Who's got the most publicity in terms of parks....it's the one's that do just that. Build stuff that the 4-6" travel bikes can hit and do bar spins, back flips, and huge moto whips on. There's a reason why Keystone DOESN'T make a mainstream video or get a big slopestyle comp...because it's the OLD model.

    Frankly, because Keystone hasn't built anything new nor done a lick of trail maintenance, I'm throwing in the towel on them. I

    It's exactly like snowboard parks vs. the rest of the mountain. Park should be man made features, not just trails cut through the woods
    Dude-- what about riding DH bikes then? I mean I agree the park aspect is important but keeping we have differnent soil out here then in BC. . . kinda hard to keep manicured. Have you ever seen 2000 vert of "slopestyle course"? The only old model keystone still is on is their little wooden stunts that have no real flow.

    Sol Vista is awesome and they have a few runs that you really can't pin on anything other then a DH bike= that is DH mountain biking= that is what world cup racers race= again. . . DH mountain biking.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by MqtRider
    It's called a bike PARK, just like a snowboard PARK. It should be manicured tables, big berms, wallrides, everything that comes with PARK. Who's got the most publicity in terms of parks....it's the one's that do just that. Build stuff that the 4-6" travel bikes can hit and do bar spins, back flips, and huge moto whips on. There's a reason why Keystone DOESN'T make a mainstream video or get a big slopestyle comp...because it's the OLD model.

    Frankly, because Keystone hasn't built anything new nor done a lick of trail maintenance, I'm throwing in the towel on them. I Bought a 5 pack and will use it, but the rest of my money's going to WP and Solvista. AND I LIVE IN SUMMIT COUNTY!

    For those that want to scare themselves at WP, start doing some no-footers, can-cans, bar spins, etc on the jump lines...it'll give you a charge.

    It's exactly like snowboard parks vs. the rest of the mountain. Park should be man made features, not just trails cut through the woods
    Holy crap. A 79 Year old doing all these stunts. This I gotta see!

  74. #74
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    Hey guys!

    Once the lifts open its non stop comparisons here on the internet. Then the lifts close...and people talk about these secret DH trails stashed around ColoRADo. Funny though no one complains about being too steep, not steep enough, no flow, jumps to big, fat ladies in bikinis, etc. We're just happy to be riding period.

    So how about more pictures and less comparison (or at least compare via pictures)? And I'll complain for my part, I'm actually getting tired of helmet cam footage. Lets see some cable action like Clay Porter. Now get out there and get to work so I can be entertained here at work.
    You have just been mentally Rick Roll'd. Yup you're thinking about it right now aren't you? Don't fight it.

  75. #75
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    I think some of the issues is in marketing.

    Keystone is trying to be a family place and is loosing it's edge that attracted certain visitors. Some of those people also have families but want something more interesting than the kiddie stuff they have been doing. They need to have better events.

    I want visitors in river run cause my job depends on it. One example of Keystone hurting us is doing away with mardi gra, that was a cash flow event for the retailers in the village.

    River Run is boring, people are going to breck over keystone.

    another thing that bothers me is the dog ban during festivals, my dog is better behaved than most children. I think being un-dog friendly in a dog lover state is bad for business. I would be more likely to show up to an event if my dog can come. They should think about the people who leave and take their dog some were else.

    I have not ridden lift serviced down hill trails much, but I know those people are not interested in the kiddie stuff they are doing in the village. There needs to be something else for people to do here.

    Atleast we still have the beer festival.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by RidersofDslum
    I think some of the issues is in marketing.

    Keystone is trying to be a family place and is loosing it's edge that attracted certain visitors. Some of those people also have families but want something more interesting than the kiddie stuff they have been doing. They need to have better events.

    I want visitors in river run cause my job depends on it. One example of Keystone hurting us is doing away with mardi gra, that was a cash flow event for the retailers in the village.

    River Run is boring, people are going to breck over keystone.

    another thing that bothers me is the dog ban during festivals, my dog is better behaved than most children. I think being un-dog friendly in a dog lover state is bad for business. I would be more likely to show up to an event if my dog can come. They should think about the people who leave and take their dog some were else.

    I have not ridden lift serviced down hill trails much, but I know those people are not interested in the kiddie stuff they are doing in the village. There needs to be something else for people to do here.

    Atleast we still have the beer festival.
    The problem with Keystone is simple, it's run by VR, which is for all intents & purposes a real estate company. Every decision no matter how large or small comes down to "is it good for real estate sales" No matter what they do, that will be the driving force.

    Good or bad, that's reality. As things tighten, budgets will be even more focused. If their research doesn't show bike traffic driving sales, they're likely to not continue investment into that arena.

    Same goes for dogs, they don't buy real estate... get rid of 'em!!
    More realistically, dogs come with the lower end customer that isn't contributing to final RE numbers, so the fact that it hurts YOUR sales at a shop is a minor issue in comparison. You're not going to stop paying rent are you? Once that happens it changes the balance & thing might go the other way, but I don't see that happening.
    Quote Originally Posted by thump View Post
    How about we take the "let it burn approach" with the rotting cesspool of the Denver metro?

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by backcountryislife
    The problem with Keystone is simple, it's run by VR, which is for all intents & purposes a real estate company. Every decision no matter how large or small comes down to "is it good for real estate sales" No matter what they do, that will be the driving force.
    While I agree that Real Estate sales is important to VR, It is not the major money driver compared to Winter Operations/ticket sales. VR does have a large property management division but that is not real estate sales.

    For 2008, Revenue in all areas has gone down since then,
    Total Revenue 1.150 billion = 1150 million
    Mountain Operations revenue = 685 million
    Lodging = 162.5 million
    Resort Ops (Mtn = Lodging) = 855 million

    Real Estate sales = 296 million. The largest on record for VR and has gone down since.

    So real Estate accounts for only 25% of VR revenue and like I said, This figure has dropped significantly.

    The cold hard reality is that Bike Park revenue is tiny compared to VR's other revenue centers and while the DH Rider demographic is growing it is miniscule compared to skiers and overall travelers.

    So VR is not essentially a "Real Estate" company. They are essentially the quintessential corporation looking to maximize profits while minimizing costs.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by wormvine
    So VR is not essentially a "Real Estate" company. They are essentially the quintessential corporation looking to maximize profits while minimizing costs.

    Sorry, over-generalization. I was referring to summertime. In the winter I feel that what you're saying is spot on, but in summer, the on mountain people & anyone not buying are second class citizens.
    Quote Originally Posted by thump View Post
    How about we take the "let it burn approach" with the rotting cesspool of the Denver metro?

  79. #79
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    Good job! WP vs Keystone

    Having just spent 4 days at Keystone at the Specialized dealer event and riding the mountain, I am in the camp that they need to put some effort into trail maintenance and building. For maintenance, do some machine dragging or filling by hand; for building, more variety and progression for newer to the sport riders. I had two new riders with me - roadies - and Suz' Cruise/Boy Scouts was too easy for them and Eye of the Tiger was too much. Lastly, no one was visible to provide stoke - rentals were sketchy since BV lost Specialized brand, and no promotion or focus on riding - as someone else said, more of a family summer destination.

    On the other hand, WP and the guys at Trestle Bike Shops are very visible, the equipment is first class, and the riding just gets better almost every week. I take new riders there all the time and the smiles I see are my best indicator of the fun factor.

    My shop (Peloton Cycles) is going to partner with WP/Trestle to provide a way to introduce new riders to gravity a safe and fun way to get a taste of the sport and we will stock the equipment for them to buy.

    My hat is off to Paul, Dan, Jake, Sarah P. and all of the trail crew at Winter Park. Keep on keepin' on!
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  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve47co1
    Having just spent 4 days at Keystone at the Specialized dealer event and riding the mountain, I am in the camp that they need to put some effort into trail maintenance and building. For maintenance, do some machine dragging or filling by hand; for building, more variety and progression for newer to the sport riders. I had two new riders with me - roadies - and Suz' Cruise/Boy Scouts was too easy for them and Eye of the Tiger was too much. Lastly, no one was visible to provide stoke - rentals were sketchy since BV lost Specialized brand, and no promotion or focus on riding - as someone else said, more of a family summer destination.

    On the other hand, WP and the guys at Trestle Bike Shops are very visible, the equipment is first class, and the riding just gets better almost every week. I take new riders there all the time and the smiles I see are my best indicator of the fun factor.

    My shop (Peloton Cycles) is going to partner with WP/Trestle to provide a way to introduce new riders to gravity a safe and fun way to get a taste of the sport and we will stock the equipment for them to buy.

    My hat is off to Paul, Dan, Jake, Sarah P. and all of the trail crew at Winter Park. Keep on keepin' on!


    How was the '11 Demo? Pretty cool looking bike...

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbabuser
    Just don't race him at Sol Vista, clearly he knows that place...
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    I don't even know what all that means..

    plus I am too old for him.. I would have to be in the 40+ category.. but racing isn't for me thats for sure..
    BBZ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithnu
    Hey guys!

    Once the lifts open its non stop comparisons here on the internet. Then the lifts close...and people talk about these secret DH trails stashed around ColoRADo. Funny though no one complains about being too steep, not steep enough, no flow, jumps to big, fat ladies in bikinis, etc. We're just happy to be riding period.

    So how about more pictures and less comparison (or at least compare via pictures)? And I'll complain for my part, I'm actually getting tired of helmet cam footage. Lets see some cable action like Clay Porter. Now get out there and get to work so I can be entertained here at work.
    we don't complain because the secret stashes have the best steeps, flow and jumps in the area.. at least in my opinion..
    BBZ

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  83. #83
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    [QUOTE=WKD-RDR]My money is on BBZ!

    thanks for the show of support..

    Lets get some odds on this.. maybe get a bookie in Vegas to run a line..
    BBZ

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    As an outta stater that only rides up there once a year, Keystone is by far my favorite to ride because steeper, more variety, and longer runs. Milkyway/motorhead/tnt/paid in full/money/sanitarium/east forest/skelter is an awesome run that has everything dh/freeride mtb can offer (jumps/rocks/steeps/wide open/wood stunts/drops/etcc). I do agree the beginer terrain is not that good but take newbs to wp.

    WP is fun for a day or so but the trails are so easy (only trestle dh is a black in my opinion) and they contour so much you are forced to pedal on all of em whether you want to or not (i am lazy). Boot Camp tables have sucked (spacing/size) since day one yet 3 years later no changes which i dont understand. The new lower section of jump trail is looking good ( steeper layout/longer gaps) though wish was open when i was there this year. Hopefully all the trails to date were built for the masses of the newbs with money that will give them the revenue they need and from now on they will build some steeper/challenging trails.

    Sol is fun because gnar, but some of the gaps are just too big for this old man and the sand gets old after awhile as do the short runs. I really liked riding there though.

    With thats said all 3 resorts have something to offer and i like all 3 and you locals are spoiled sobs to have so much good riding available.

  85. #85
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    was interesting to see this thread appear on nsmb
    http://bb.nsmb.com/showthread.php?t=134734

    makes sense that the resorts need the bermy jumpy flowy to stoke the masses and make it work, but it's funny to see the BC locs jonesing for more/new tech at Whistler.

    nice vids bbz, ever going to make it out this way again?

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by airwreck
    was interesting to see this thread appear on nsmb
    http://bb.nsmb.com/showthread.php?t=134734

    makes sense that the resorts need the bermy jumpy flowy to stoke the masses and make it work, but it's funny to see the BC locs jonesing for more/new tech at Whistler.

    nice vids bbz, ever going to make it out this way again?
    Seems like there is tons of tech at whistler if you can pull yourself away from A line.. and if not the surrounding areas have all the tech you would ever need..

    The reality is: if you build jump/flow trails, you need to maintain them and that includes smoothing out from time to time, fixing the lips as the deteriorate, fixing jumps that might be too long or too short..

    Airwreck.. might get out there during Xmas.. hows the stuff doing out there??
    BBZ

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    Quote Originally Posted by billybobzia
    Seems like there is tons of tech at whistler if you can pull yourself away from A line.. and if not the surrounding areas have all the tech you would ever need..

    The reality is: if you build jump/flow trails, you need to maintain them and that includes smoothing out from time to time, fixing the lips as the deteriorate, fixing jumps that might be too long or too short..

    Airwreck.. might get out there during Xmas.. hows the stuff doing out there??
    that's what made me laugh, I love the whistler tech and it's funny to see the locs complain! We rode RDS last year and it rules. Seems like there are trails that don't get ridden there like captain safety and D1 and even lower joyride. I don't need A-line, but I don't avoid it either! I'm starved of the techy goodness here and it's easy to satisfy my jump cravings at home .

    Things are good here, check my sig, lots of stoked groms stepping it up, but stuff is getting worked because it's been too dry, my trail work time is extremely limited now and very little maintenance participation from the other riders. They do know how to complain though .

    Hoping next summer to have enough time off to visit our well placed families in OR, BC and WP but the wife prefers they come meet us in Whistler instead

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by airwreck
    that's what made me laugh, I love the whistler tech and it's funny to see the locs complain! We rode RDS last year and it rules. Seems like there are trails that don't get ridden there like captain safety and D1 and even lower joyride. I don't need A-line, but I don't avoid it either! I'm starved of the techy goodness here and it's easy to satisfy my jump cravings at home .

    Things are good here, check my sig, lots of stoked groms stepping it up, but stuff is getting worked because it's been too dry, my trail work time is extremely limited now and very little maintenance participation from the other riders. They do know how to complain though .

    Hoping next summer to have enough time off to visit our well placed families in OR, BC and WP but the wife prefers they come meet us in Whistler instead
    nice vids, that looks fun out then.. maybe we can hook up in the NW next summer, plan on getting out there every year until my body won't let me do it..
    BBZ

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  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by billybobzia
    I don't even know what all that means..

    plus I am too old for him.. I would have to be in the 40+ category.. but racing isn't for me thats for sure..
    4th place in Cat 1, which is what expert and semi pro were combined to form. Races are also timed, so you wouldn't have to be in the same class to compare times. He's almost 40, anyway, and probably looks older than you.
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    Very Nice!

    Quote Originally Posted by davec113
    How was the '11 Demo? Pretty cool looking bike...
    Dave - sweet bike, but definitely a race only rig nowadays - Sam Hill was there as one of the Specialized team members (as was Ned, Brendan, Matt, and others) and I spent 30 minutes with him talking about the changes in the bike from 2010 to 2011 and beyond - it has been modified to suit his need for speed downhill.

    The bike to ride this coming year at the parks or for shuttle will be the 2011 SX Trail/Demo 7 - the Demo 7 has been dropped from the lineup and the SXT has been bumped to 180mm and it is the all round gravity bike. The new coil Enduro Evo at 170mm F&R is the fun bike - I rode it and liked it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Keystone... What happened to you..-100_2544.jpg  

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  91. #91
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    OK, after seven runs down Keystone on Saturday, I have to say that it's still my favorite resort in Colorado. We rode everything except for Let it Ride (the green) and the trails there rock! They have the steepest terrain of the big three, and the trails are the techiest. I enjoy the wooden stunts there too--they add an interesting dynamic that Colorado doesn't have much of.

    We saw a trail crew out there with a wheel barrel working on some of the braking bumps, but the could use a little more help--some of the trails do need a little love. That being said, it's downhill--if you have a problem with braking bumps, think about a DH bike (or tune your suspension if you've already got one).

    Like discussed elsewhere in this thread, they need more green options--trails that prepare people to ride more aggressive stuff. Sol Vista has set the bar for green DH trails in my opinion, and Keystone needs to follow their lead. Also, I didn't see droves of people renting bikes and taking lessons like at Winter Park. Keystone needs to get the beginner side figured out before WP and SV capture all of that market.

    We're lucky to live in a state with so much good DH within a 3 hour drive. I love the variety between the big three--each of them has their niche and they are all a lot of fun. However, for my type of riding Keystone is the king!

    Edit: fixed spelling on braking bumps from breaking bumps...hopefully bumps don't "break" anything!
    Last edited by kristian; 07-19-2010 at 10:38 AM.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbabuser
    4th place in Cat 1, which is what expert and semi pro were combined to form. Races are also timed, so you wouldn't have to be in the same class to compare times. He's almost 40, anyway, and probably looks older than you.
    ****, I'm pushing 50 and he looks older than me!

    But he is fast as all hell.
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  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by billybobzia
    thanks for the show of support..

    Lets get some odds on this.. maybe get a bookie in Vegas to run a line..
    Really just hopin to make some cash on a long shot.
    Last edited by WKD-RDR; 07-19-2010 at 10:35 AM.

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by kristian
    We're lucky to live in a state with so much good DH within a 3 hour drive. I love the variety between the big three--each of them has their niche and they are all a lot of fun. However, for my type of riding Keystone is the king!

    Word

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    Quote Originally Posted by airwreck
    I love the whistler tech and it's funny to see the locs complain! We rode RDS last year and it rules. Seems like there are trails that don't get ridden there like captain safety and D1 and even lower joyride. I don't need A-line, but I don't avoid it either! I'm starved of the techy goodness here and it's easy to satisfy my jump cravings at home .
    Good to know. Headin out there next week. Prob ridin solo while the fam hangs out at the village pool.
    Any other ϐeta is appreciated

  96. #96
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    Just got back from spending a loooong weekend of sun and fun at Sol Twista.

    Only to see that BBZ's head has gotten a lil' bigger since last I left this thread.

    Look, the "I choose not to race." was a quote from Seinfeld (which actually I think it's RUN not race, so my bad), it was a joke, not a response to your challenge. I tried to give you a honorable way out to what could inevitably be very embarrassing for you. I was thinking you might actually be fun to ride with, given the comment by el pollo loco, at least I know I wouldn't have to wait for you...for very long. But instead you became some kind of mountain biking Biff from Back to the Future. Wanting to race, saying chicken....What? No, "Why don't you make like a tree....and get out of here." line?

    Seriously dude, the 'clearly, you need to go faster.' remark hit a hot button of yours. I was just trying giving some light hearted jabbing to the misnomer that Keystone is easy and not tech. Did I not put enough smiley faces on that freakin post?

    I race because I like to ride bikes, and ride them fast. I know I can hit gnarly stuff at a very fast pace. I don't need to prove it to anyone. And I wanted to avoid arguing on the internet because we all know what that is like. But whatever.

    If you really want to gauge your speed...Go to Sol Vista, go time yourself on "Stranger", the amateur DH course for this year (it was the pro course last year). If you get under 3:00 you're doing pretty good. If you get under 2:53, I'll buy you a hot dog.

    I am not going to argue or talk crap with you on who is faster.

    I'm still down for riding together, I'll even let you go first, but not if you're gonna bring Biff....
    Biker? I don't even know her.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    ****, I'm pushing 50 and he looks older than me!

    But he is fast as all hell.
    You crack me up. It's called looking "distinguished"

    If you and zeeerrraa ever stop doing death trips and meet us mortals out and ride the uplifts at the local trail center, I'd be mighty obliged.
    Biker? I don't even know her.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by SylentK
    If you get under 3:00 you're doing pretty good. If you get under 2:53, I'll buy you a hot dog.
    Why must it always be hotdogs?
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  99. #99
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    Oh the joys of the internet miscommunication..

    Seriously, all was meant in fun.. I have no desire to race anyone..






    Quote Originally Posted by SylentK
    Just got back from spending a loooong weekend of sun and fun at Sol Twista.

    Only to see that BBZ's head has gotten a lil' bigger since last I left this thread.

    Look, the "I choose not to race." was a quote from Seinfeld (which actually I think it's RUN not race, so my bad), it was a joke, not a response to your challenge. I tried to give you a honorable way out to what could inevitably be very embarrassing for you. I was thinking you might actually be fun to ride with, given the comment by el pollo loco, at least I know I wouldn't have to wait for you...for very long. But instead you became some kind of mountain biking Biff from Back to the Future. Wanting to race, saying chicken....What? No, "Why don't you make like a tree....and get out of here." line?

    Seriously dude, the 'clearly, you need to go faster.' remark hit a hot button of yours. I was just trying giving some light hearted jabbing to the misnomer that Keystone is easy and not tech. Did I not put enough smiley faces on that freakin post?

    I race because I like to ride bikes, and ride them fast. I know I can hit gnarly stuff at a very fast pace. I don't need to prove it to anyone. And I wanted to avoid arguing on the internet because we all know what that is like. But whatever.

    If you really want to gauge your speed...Go to Sol Vista, go time yourself on "Stranger", the amateur DH course for this year (it was the pro course last year). If you get under 3:00 you're doing pretty good. If you get under 2:53, I'll buy you a hot dog.

    I am not going to argue or talk crap with you on who is faster.

    I'm still down for riding together, I'll even let you go first, but not if you're gonna bring Biff....
    BBZ

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  100. #100
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    did you miss the smiley face when I said you were chickening out??
    BBZ

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