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  1. #1
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    Join the Boulder Bike Patrol and ride West Mag!

    That's right! To deal with intensifying management problems in the West Mag area, the Boulder Mountain Bike Patrol has decided to sign a volunteer agreement with the forest service.

    You already know the West Mag trails are sweet.

    You already ride them.

    You already help people in need.

    So join the Boulder Mountain Bike Patrol and do the same thing but help put a responsible face on mountain biking, help other people, and leverage the Boulder Mountainbike Alliance's advocacy efforts.

    Training meeting this Wednesday, May 10 5:30pm till around 7:30pm at the Boulder Ranger District Offices at 2140 Yarmouth (half way between broadway and 28th street on the NW side of US 36). Pizza provided.

    http://www.bouldermountainbike.org/bikepatrol

    Jason Vogel
    bike patrol director

  2. #2
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    Do we get badges?
    Just what sort of "authority" does this patrol have?

    Edit: I just read the manual. The patrol has no legal authority whatsoever. As it should be: any MTB rider trying to tell some gun toting redneck that he can't 4wd would be a candidate for the darwin award.
    Actually, most of the guidlines stated in the manual are really just common sense courtesies that every biker should exercise, and many boulder mtb'ers don't.
    Last edited by Renegade; 05-08-2006 at 08:17 AM.
    ****

  3. #3
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    So what exactly does this mountain bike patrol do? Can we erect more signs, cause LORD knows there are not enough of those up there. Can we host some more BMA/BOA picnic night rides and scare away all the wildlife once and for all? Can the patrol accost motos that ride West Mag trail with firearms and 12 inch blade knives?

    I find BMA's association with West Mag curious. The Habit Trail originally a renegade mountain bike trail with some rickity old BC style bridges built in autumn 1998 has become the BMA pride-source number one. The irony and hypocrisy of BMA is staggering. Their website screams (as it should): DON'T BUILD ILLEGAL TRAILS, BE RESPONSIBLE, ETC. Now insert tongue in cheek...If you do build a renegade trail we'll be sure adopt it a number of years later, and take all the credit for it, plaster our signs on every nook and cranny of the area and exploit it as a tool to boost our membership and continue to promote our lie.

    The hypocrisy goes deeper. The guy who "found" these trails for BMA is closely aligned with Paul Turner - Maverick honcho - who as anyone with a monicrum of trail knowledge in Boulder knows, built or at least promoted the building of singletrack smack dab through Boulder Mountain Parks land on Flagstaff mountain so he'd have backdoor access to his palatial estate overlooking the peasants in the city. That's a fairly responsible move, don't you think? Actually, I don't think it sent mountain bikers in this area back years. But BMA never an organization to cast an evil eye towards a multi-millionaire illegal trailbuilder continued to accept his money, ride his bikes and promote his political agenda (and heck, if were nice to him maybe we'll get pro-deal on an ML-7 too!).

    Basically, BMA/BOA, whatever you want to call them tells folks to be responsible, etc. Unfortunately, the noxious odor coming out of their ass as a result of their past actions is a dead give away as to the true agenda access at all costs, even if it means building trails illegally of this organization.

    Let the games/flames begin.
    Last edited by Trail Saw 666; 05-08-2006 at 11:06 PM.

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    Wow, so much anger. Do you only ride in Ned? Or have you ventured out to other areas to ride where you are not a local? It's nice to be able to explore new areas and ride different trails, not just the ones where you are from.

    The bike patrol is not to police what people are doing and bust them for misconduct. It is there to assist riders that are lost, broken down, or injured, and the spreading of good will between bikers and the hiking community. It also gives us a larger voice when it comes time to build new trails, which is always good. You shouldn't view the patrol as a negative thing, you probably won't even need any assistance from them, but there are many people in the community that do appreciate the work that they do.
    Last edited by skogorbet; 05-08-2006 at 11:26 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trail Saw 666
    I find BMA's association with West Mag curious....If you do build a renegade trail we'll be sure adopt it a number of years later, and take all the credit for it, plaster our signs on every nook and cranny of the area and exploit it as a tool to boost our membership and continue to promote our lie.

    .
    actually, quite a few of the trails mtb riders enjoy were made by moto riders. I occasionally joined them on their trail cutting rides years back. Ironic that now those same trails are off limits to them, courtesy of the influence of the mtb organizations and the forest service. Now we can flex our muscles and take over this multi-use area. Ain't it great?
    ****

  6. #6
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    Any interest in trying to be a constructive force for mountian bike access in Boulder County? No? Then I didn't start this thread for you.

    Keep the flaming somewhere else. The Boulder Moutnain Bike Patrol is looking for fun-loving and helpful people to partner with the forest service to help people out and develop a good relationship between our user group and the USFS.

    Trail Saw, please vent your anger on another thread where it is more appropriate. I'd be happy to discuss other issues with you there.

    Everyone else - you do get a badge! Well, actually it's a placard to put on your handlebars to let everyone know you are a bike patroller. And as Renegade poitned out, we have no enforcement authority at all, nor is that our purpose. Our purpose is to have fun on the trails and help other people have fun. Sound like a good purpose to me. If it does to you too, come out to the training session Wed May 10 5:30 pm at the USFS Ranger station at 2140 Yarmouth, Boulder.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vogelman!
    Any interest in trying to be a constructive force for mountian bike access in Boulder County? No? Then I didn't start this thread for you.

    Keep the flaming somewhere else.

    Trail Saw, please vent your anger on another thread where it is more appropriate. I'd be happy to discuss other issues with you there.
    In no ones defense Vogelman, this thread, this website is not your private domain. Once you started this thread, it was turned over to the world to take whatever shape the discussion gives it. What it has shown is that there are more sides to this issue than you have brought out. Why ask Trail saw to take it elsewhere? It's here, deal with it now.

    So you don't think I'm a total dick; I understand the west mag issue from a few angles, over a ten year period of time. This multi-use area that ten years ago hardly saw any mtb use, but lots of other use, has slowly grown in popularity to the point that it is now the playground for the resource starved mtb community, and is on the verge of becoming somewhat elitist by forcefully excluding or severely restricting other trail users. I read that the goal of this patrol is to put a friendly face out there for riders, but what are the long range goals of BMA and BOA in regards to west mag? I feel that hanging in the air. And why does west mag need this patrol anyway? The friendly face, the courtesy, the trailside help, etc.; those are things that every rider should share with every other rider [a disappearing trait]. Are you looking to turn west mag into a tourist friendly theme park with hosts at every trail junction to give directions to first time riders? Where is the adventure in that?
    For all those folks that have no intention of becoming patrol members or attending your training meeting, but want to know what it is that you're up to, this is your opportunity to explain it in detail. Unless you have a hidden agenda.
    ****

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    I guess there was some anger in TS post but he also brings up some points that I've heard over and over again throughout the years. It's interesting that you considered it a "flame". Perhaps not as PC as we've all become accustomed to in BoCo but valid points nonetheless. It's difficult for people who don't live in the mountains to understand the reality of living up there. Everybody needs to share but it's hard to explain the honest sense of loss locals feel when they see their hardwork and "neighborhood" trails exploited. I've got no problems with said "patrols" and every time I'm on a bike I'm a steward for our sport so yeah, I am interested in being a constructive force. Just not an organized one. Good luck and fight the good fight, eh?
    Gone are the days we stopped to decide,
    Where we should go,
    We just ride...

  9. #9
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    Renegade,

    There is a distinct, and important difference between your tone and that of Trail Saw (noxious fumes?!?). I'm not interested in having an argument just for the sake of argument (what I felt Trail Saw was starting), but I'm happy to answer valid question and concerns (which you brought up in a constrictive way). Call me silly, but that's the way I operate. I have no intention of controlling this discussion, I'd just like to keep it civil in the spirit of what the patrol is all about.

    Answers to your questions below, but just the view of one man:

    Why do we need the patrol?

    Overcrowding, population growth, and trail limitations are driving mt bikers into forest service lands. As a consequence USFS is redoing management plans for all its forest areas in Boulder County over the next several years. This will result in many trail closures and possible restrictions. Getting a good relationship with USFS and showing them we can be constructive partners positions us better to be on USFS's good side when these decision are made. Look at Buffalo Creek (in the Pike Forest). Due to a nine year patrol in that area, the forest is considering adding new trail opportunities instead of restrictions. The Boulder Moutnain Bike Patrol is modeled largely off of that one.

    Theme park?

    Of course not. I like the trails just as you do, as an adventure away from the crowds. We won't be advertising the trails because that's a waste of my time. I'll be riding the trails and helping people out like I always have. Only now, it will contribute toward building long term relationships to benefit mountain biking in Boulder County. We are patrolling only the West Mag area, and largely because private property issues are getting trails closed down right now (you know what trails I mean). This legacy of closure will continue if we cannot put a constructive force of good-willed mountain bikers on the ground.

    Relationship with BMA?

    The Boulder Mountain Bike Patrol is not a part of the Boulder Mountainbike Alliance. BMA does sponsor us by providing resources for the patrol, and membership in the two organizations overlaps heavily, but not completely. Flame BMA all you want, but it's not the same as this patrol. We are not an advocacy organization, but a bunch of folks riding to have fun and build good will. Nevertheless, I'll offer this in BMA's defense:

    They are not the U.S. Forest Service, they did not make the decision to exclude motos. They advocated for the West Mag trails to be designated instead of closed and they did not create the anti-moto sentiment that has led USFS to heavily restrict moto use. If you hate them for what they did you probably misunderstand what happened there or don't understand the looming threat of future management restrictions. Perhaps your anger is better directed at the USFS for their restrictions on motos, or maybe even the irresponsible segement of the moto community that has pissed off property owners in the area by tresspassing and damageing private land. Either way, there is clearly enough blame to go around that demonizing BMA misses seriously important parts of what is going on in the West Mag area and in all USFS lands in Boulder County.

    I hope that answers your questions and put some of your fears to rest. The Boulder Moutnain Bike Patrol is an attempt to move beyond some of these conflicts and find more cooperative solutions to many of the problems recreation faces on public lands in Boulder County.

  10. #10
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    Vogelman, thank you for your response. FWIW, I do not blame any MTB organization for the restrictions on moto use at west mag. As in many cases, a few ruin things for the many. There are/were plenty of irresponsible moto riders at west mag who created their own demise. When the restrictions first came out, I honored them [staying on the designated F.S roads only] but many did not. I sold my moto last spring; there are even less resources for good moto riding in the county than there are resources for good mtb riding.
    ****

  11. #11
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    Hey Trailsaw,
    you've taken potshots at everyone, how about telling all of us who you are? Or are you one of those pathetic creatures that can only talk big under an alias? BMA's and my work are pretty well known, why don't you give us some of your background as well so we can critique it?!

  12. #12
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    Hi Paul,

    I don't know who Trail Saw 666 is, although based on the rant here it does seem to be someone "in the know" so to speak. By the way, this is Dan Vardamis. I used to work as IMBA's advocacy manager and ITN editor. Teaching high school English in Ned now. I almost bought one of your bikes a number of years back - the Reposado. While I don't agree with TS666 in entirety, he raises some good points. And realize that I have a ton of respect for you, what you've done for IMBA, BMA and the sport in general.

    That said, the Flagstaff Trail thing has eaten at my craw for a number of years now. Of course, everything I've heard about it and your involvement or lack thereof is pure heresay. Unfortunately, there has been enough heresay that it, at the very least, raises eyebrows. In my opinion, involvement in such a trail by someone of your stature would be less than ideal for the sport. You've never been implicated with regards to this trail as far as I know, and if you say you had nothing to do with it I'll take your word for it.

    I for one would love to know what the real story is here. This is a stupid avenue for communication, but since the issue has been presented it's a good chance to let folks know what is real and what's not.

    Hang loose,

    DV

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    Just to thread jack.

    What did happen to the BC style stunts that used to be at west mag? Why did they get torn down? I ASS-ume it was due to liability reasons. Would someone care to elaborate on the issues that lead to thier demise? ( sorry for choppy sentences. Haven't had enough coffe yet)

    Sorry back to the patrol thread.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pluto Pilot
    Hi Paul,


    That said, the Flagstaff Trail thing has eaten at my craw for a number of years now. Of course, everything I've heard about it and your involvement or lack thereof is pure heresay. Unfortunately, there has been enough heresay that it, at the very least, raises eyebrows. In my opinion, involvement in such a trail by someone of your stature would be less than ideal for the sport. You've never been implicated with regards to this trail as far as I know, and if you say you had nothing to do with it I'll take your word for it.

    I for one would love to know what the real story is here. This is a stupid avenue for communication, but since the issue has been presented it's a good chance to let folks know what is real and what's not.

    Hang loose

    Just wondering about this as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by moment
    Just to thread jack.

    What did happen to the BC style stunts that used to be at west mag? Why did they get torn down? I ASS-ume it was due to liability reasons. Would someone care to elaborate on the issues that lead to thier demise? ( sorry for choppy sentences. Haven't had enough coffe yet)

    Sorry back to the patrol thread.
    While trail building by anyone but the forest service is technically illegal on national forest land, building any kind of structure, be it a stunt, a shack, etc is also quite illegal as well. The stunts mentioned in this thread were rickety pieces of sh!t that IMO, were unsafe. As they were built on a very popular trail, the F.S. found them easily, and tore them down. They would have probably fallen down under some rider eventually.
    Back to my first sentence, technically, only the forest service builds trails or approves the building of trails. Technically speaking, EVERY single track trail at west mag was illegally built, be it by MTB'ers or motos.
    ****

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    . Technically speaking, EVERY single track trail at west mag was illegally built, be it by MTB'ers or motos.
    Threadjacking again.

    I find it amusing that in the past trails were built illegally. Now they are mapped and legal.
    But if you want to build a trail now a days you have to go through a bunch of red tape. ( understandably of course).

    My how things have changed.

    Sorry. Back to our regular programming.

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    the irony of the flagstaff trail is that while it was built by xc riders, it was two dh riders that i know who were caught and busted riding it. there are many rumors around about who built that trail and others like espresso/santa cruz.

    i really doubt turner is going to discuss the flagstaff issue here. but we are all waiting paul. this issue is at the center of the boulder county trail situation. since you jumped into this discussion i feel we deserve some type of response.

    trail saw makes some intersting points. but unlike him i will be honest and open and add to my post that i have built trail in boulder county without permission. and i have ridden a lot of the illegal stuff. fortunately the stuff i worked on has never been found by the general public. yet. now i build only on private property. i built at gunbarrel for two years and now i build at wilson woods in evergreen. you guys should come check out my latest work- a dual slalom course.

    since i am being honest i think the hypocrites here need to step it up and tell the truth. dont call others out if you have skeletons in the closet.

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    Moment, when you look at the history of the local area, most trails were created outside of any forest service policy. Many existed before said policies. The mining boom is responsible for many trails. Locals are resposible for many trails. The F.S. isn't going to go through the county and shut them all down post-fact, but they can adopt them, or, if conflicts arise, shut them down. Keep them quiet, avoid the conflict, and the F.S. may not get involved. They don't have the money or the man power to get involved in low priority affairs.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Moment, when you look at the history of the local area, most trails were created outside of any forest service policy. Many existed before said policies. The mining boom is responsible for many trails. Locals are resposible for many trails. The F.S. isn't going to go through the county and shut them all down post-fact, but they can adopt them, or, if conflicts arise, shut them down. Keep them quiet, avoid the conflict, and the F.S. may not get involved. They don't have the money or the man power to get involved in low priority affairs.
    I'm finally starting to understand why all the trails are kept so hush hush. Wish some one would have told me about a lot of these issues when I moved up there. Understandibley there is no guide book to living in NED. Just gott figure things out on your own.

    Later

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    Wow!

    This thread is like its own little secret stash! So innocuous from the title, but then so scandalous on the inside!

    I won't touch the Flag/PT stuff, but I gotta say I wholeheartedly support the BOA/BMA/Patrol thing. The whole concept seems pretty simple and smart - get mtb-ers enmeshed with the USFS up at West Mag (and with Open Space elsewhere) so that it's harder for the authorities to arbitrarily shut us out at any point. That doesn't mean that they won't, but it's got to make it harder for them to make an argument against mtb-ers when they have reps up there helping keep the peace and manage trail use. Ditto with trail building and maintenance.

    As far as the motos being upset that they got shut out, I feel for them to the extent that they did the work but now lost all the benefit. But it was all illegal, so what do you expect? And yes, mtb-ers (and BOA for that matter) piggybacked on their efforts, but they're doing good work and if that helps get them some more money, members, turnout and general support that they're putting back into true local trail advocacy, then good for them. It blows me away what folks can manage to get themselves upset about. These guys are working to get more trails built for mountain bikes and some people still find a way in their hearts to get upset. Incredible!

    Anyway, back to the original subject at hand, good work on the patrol. I'd join, but I usually only make it up there pre-work super early in the AM after hopping on the 515am RTD and don't happen to bump into many other folks at that hour. S (Oh, and if anyone cares, DSR is my initials - David Scott Reardon - but I go by Scott... just to keep y'all one step behind me!)

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSR
    This thread is like its own little secret stash! So innocuous from the title, but then so scandalous on the inside!
    Totally! All it needs is a little damonnomad and it will really be a party. Do you want to pm him for me?

  22. #22
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    boulder bike patro thread

    I heard, he said, you screwed us, they screwed us, that sucks,he sucks, they ruined chance for more trails, he's aloof, I am cool.....Head starting to hurt...

    BTW Paul Turner is an individual who has done more to advance the sport of mountain biking (not only in this region but all over the world!) than all of us put together. He is not a deity, but he has pimples that have done more for the sport than I ever will.

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    Call me Deep throat

    Paul Turner,

    Why should I tell you who I am? That would be stupid. I'm not unaware as to the risks of calling out the diety of the Boulder mountain biking scene, and I thought long and hard about posting this for fear of retribution by your large band of followers. I don't look forward to having an in-box full of hate mail, or worse. I fully expect to get flamed here since you are a popular man. For what it's worth, I'm a nobody who lives up in the hills and is friends with folks who are "somebodies" in the mountain biking world. I've never built an illegal trail in my life. However, I love riding and get furious when people ruin it for others because of their own selfish agenda, and don't believe any one person is bigger than the sport.

    I posted this because this issue has been buried for too long, and, if true, it has consequences regarding the integrity of mountain biking advocacy in this county. The option is certainly open to set the story straight, as a number of folks have suggested.
    Last edited by Trail Saw 666; 05-10-2006 at 08:38 PM.

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    BTW Paul Turner is an individual who has done more to advance the sport of mountain biking (not only in this region but all over the world!) than all of us put together. He is not a deity, but he has pimples that have done more for the sport than I ever will.
    well said
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    [/SIZE]

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    No good

    No comments, eh?
    Gone are the days we stopped to decide,
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