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  1. #1
    Yappy little dog!
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    JCOS Share the Trail and Bike Rights Info


  2. #2
    rubber side down
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    So I read the .pdf, but maybe I'm missing the point. What exactly are they going to do at these things? Is it a seminar? Are they going to tell you how to pass a pedestrian in artful terms that don't contain the words "on", "your", and "left"? Maybe I'm dumb, but I don't see the point.

  3. #3
    Yappy little dog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by russman
    So I read the .pdf, but maybe I'm missing the point. What exactly are they going to do at these things? Is it a seminar? Are they going to tell you how to pass a pedestrian in artful terms that don't contain the words "on", "your", and "left"? Maybe I'm dumb, but I don't see the point.
    It is a communication and outreach initiative. I think there will be brochures, swag, userg groups, and some bike shops (if I am not mistaken). You can ask questions and voice concerns. From a bike side of things, it is important that we keep in front of them. If you want change, improvements, or more trails then show up and let them know.

  4. #4
    rubber side down
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    Quote Originally Posted by schnauzers
    It is a communication and outreach initiative. I think there will be brochures, swag, userg groups, and some bike shops (if I am not mistaken). You can ask questions and voice concerns. From a bike side of things, it is important that we keep in front of them. If you want change, improvements, or more trails then show up and let them know.
    I hope it's worth your time. From that description, I'd say from my perspective, it's not. I already show up to JCOS meetings, COMBA events, write JCOS, etc. to stay "in front of them". Now I have to show up to this? No thanks. Sounds like a good day to ride White Ranch.

  5. #5
    Your bike is incorrigible
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    Ok, this sounds like a good idea, but just how many other user groups are going to see this? Can't have an outreach when there is only one user group.

  6. #6
    Almost Human
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    This is cool and everything, but I'm confused about how they are going to get hikers and equestrian users to show up? especially the people walking their dogs off leash?

    It seems to me most of us are fairly educated regarding rules of the trail, as many of the conflicts I've seen have arisen from people walking on the wrong side of the trail, wearing headphones, or not knowing what "on your left" means? i.e. perhaps you're sending the rules to the wrong people?

    UT

  7. #7
    Yappy little dog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleTrail
    This is cool and everything, but I'm confused about how they are going to get hikers and equestrian users to show up? especially the people walking their dogs off leash?

    It seems to me most of us are fairly educated regarding rules of the trail, as many of the conflicts I've seen have arisen from people walking on the wrong side of the trail, wearing headphones, or not knowing what "on your left" means? i.e. perhaps you're sending the rules to the wrong people?

    UT
    The do two a week at different parks. The idea is to hit up the random users on that evening. Tuesdays are Share the Trail. They are targeted to all user groups to educate them on yielding, communicating, etc and that there are other users out there besides themselves. Thursdays are Bike Rights nights. They are targeted at riders to inform them that they have a right to use the trails and also to educate on yielding, etc.

    Both events are held in cooperation with user groups, retailers, and others. These are not "JeffCo is out to get you" events. Remember that we live in a community and we are all part of it. Community outreach is also very important to JeffCo and other organizations like COMBA, BMA, etc.

    BTW, I noticed one of those railroad bridges at the end of the Bailey Hundo crossing the South Platte. They are pretty damn strong.

  8. #8
    Your bike is incorrigible
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    Quote Originally Posted by schnauzers
    The do two a week at different parks. The idea is to hit up the random users on that evening. Tuesdays are Share the Trail. They are targeted to all user groups to educate them on yielding, communicating, etc and that there are other users out there besides themselves. Thursdays are Bike Rights nights. They are targeted at riders to inform them that they have a right to use the trails and also to educate on yielding, etc.
    Again, I just don't know that you're covering all the bases. What I see is a notice that only the bike contingent will read. If I were out for a hike and some weird person accosted me and tried to tell how wonderful it would be if bikes and hikers got along, I would be tempted to run.

    In other words, I would like to come up with a way of informing the hiker/equestrian groups beforehand, especially since that might just get more of them to join in. I know that you're trying this grassroots style. If it were ongoing, it might work. Since it is for a limited time, I would want more people to know about.

    Newspaper story? TV news blurb? I would just see who would be willing to go for it.

  9. #9
    lone rider
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  10. #10
    Your bike is incorrigible
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    Addendum:

    Wearing headphones while you run or walk so that no other trail user can communicate his or her intentions is strictly verboten. Fine: $50.

    Seriously, I don't even try anymore to let people wearing headphones know that I'm going to pass them. I just get as close as possible to scare the crap out of them.

  11. #11
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    The whole argument that cyclists should take responsibility for the safety of all other trail users at all times is counterintuitive. This needs to be just as much about educating other trail users as it is about bastardizing cyclists.

    Call me irresponsible, but I find it darn near impossible to always approach other trail users (hikers) without startling them, even at a very reasonable speed as outlined above. It never fails--you roll up, breaks squealing, nearly track standing 30 feet behind the hiker, a friendly greeting to alert them, and without fail they jump 20 feet off the trail into the mahogany.

    And why not just designate some bike only trails? I just generally think the discussions getting old. People need to get over their sense of entitlement.

  12. #12
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    What's lacking in the PR campaign is an effort to get the word out to the general public using PSA's on local radio stations. Send the message to them when they're in the car on the way to the trailheads. It's cheap and effective.

    I'm baffled about why their isn't an annual PR campaign on the local radio stations? or even a weekend call-in radio program to talk about trail issues? 6 a.m. Sunday morning would be a good time to catch people on the way to the trail... it's got to be better than a vitamin info-mercial.

    Come to think of it, I can't recall ever hearing a PSA from the open space community in this state other than for GOCO and the lottery??


    UT

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyechka
    Seriously, I don't even try anymore to let people wearing headphones know that I'm going to pass them. I just get as close as possible to scare the crap out of them.
    Worse yet. Someone walking 3 dogs off-leash while wearing an iPod. Can we just tape a TRAIL HAZARD sign on them and move on?

  14. #14
    Yappy little dog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleTrail
    What's lacking in the PR campaign is an effort to get the word out to the general public using PSA's on local radio stations. Send the message to them when they're in the car on the way to the trailheads. It's cheap and effective.

    I'm baffled about why their isn't an annual PR campaign on the local radio stations? or even a weekend call-in radio program to talk about trail issues? 6 a.m. Sunday morning would be a good time to catch people on the way to the trail... it's got to be better than a vitamin info-mercial.

    Come to think of it, I can't recall ever hearing a PSA from the open space community in this state other than for GOCO and the lottery??


    UT
    I am not disagreeing with you, but that is part of the reason we need more MTB volunteers for the Bike Patrol.

  15. #15
    rubber side down
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    Quote Originally Posted by schnauzers
    I am not disagreeing with you, but that is part of the reason we need more MTB volunteers for the Bike Patrol.
    Uuuhh...which bike patrol? Jeffco's, or COMBA's? or?

    Do hikers or equestrians have hiker patrol, or horse patrol? Seems mountain bikers as a group are expected to go above and beyond to protect our "rights". Now you think we should show up to these "bike right" things to help foster good will among the powers that be in Jeffco? No thanks. I've been riding Jeffco trails for 25 years and have had zero run in's with neither hikers or equestrians. I'd say I'm doing my part to foster good will 1 encounter at a time even without a "Bike Patrol" name plate on the front of my bike.

  16. #16
    Yappy little dog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by russman
    Uuuhh...which bike patrol? Jeffco's, or COMBA's? or?

    Do hikers or equestrians have hiker patrol, or horse patrol? Seems mountain bikers as a group are expected to go above and beyond to protect our "rights". Now you think we should show up to these "bike right" things to help foster good will among the powers that be in Jeffco? No thanks. I've been riding Jeffco trails for 25 years and have had zero run in's with neither hikers or equestrians. I'd say I'm doing my part to foster good will 1 encounter at a time even without a "Bike Patrol" name plate on the front of my bike.
    I am a JCOS Volunteer Patroller who happens to ride a bike. There are those who hike and ride horses. However, bikes are way in the minority and I think that is a problem. If more bikers were on patrol, educating,etc., it would send a much better message to all the users. That was my plan for the Ambassador program, but this is the start. We need to foster the relationship with JeffCo. That is what I am attempting to do by being part of their Volunteer program. But, it's lonely on the bike. There are not a lot of us.

    This is not a separate Mountain Bike Patrol, though I do feel it is needed (like Boulder). It would have a profound impact on the way other users perceive us. I am repeating myself now. Just look up my posts from last summer.

  17. #17
    rubber side down
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    Quote Originally Posted by schnauzers
    I am a JCOS Volunteer Patroller who happens to ride a bike. There are those who hike and ride horses. However, bikes are way in the minority and I think that is a problem. If more bikers were on patrol, educating,etc., it would send a much better message to all the users. That was my plan for the Ambassador program, but this is the start. We need to foster the relationship with JeffCo. That is what I am attempting to do by being part of their Volunteer program. But, it's lonely on the bike. There are not a lot of us.

    This is not a separate Mountain Bike Patrol, though I do feel it is needed (like Boulder). It would have a profound impact on the way other users perceive us. I am repeating myself now. Just look up my posts from last summer.
    My last point is to reiterate that you don't need a title, name plate, or t-shirt stating you're a mountain biking ambassador of good will to be one...you do so every time you ride. I'm tired of Jeffco moving the goalpost....first it was "support your TUTF rep,", then it was "show up at JCOS meetings and they'll take mountain bikers seriously," now it's "show up to a Bike Right night, and we'll take you seriously, and we mean it this time." I wonder what will be next.

    Hikers, equestrians, etc, will judge mountain bikers every time they encounter one. Each of us owns how that encounter goes. If your encounters haven't gone well, maybe these Jeffco gatherings are worth it to you. And you'll get a free bandana!

  18. #18
    Yappy little dog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by russman
    My last point is to reiterate that you don't need a title, name plate, or t-shirt stating you're a mountain biking ambassador of good will to be one...you do so every time you ride. I'm tired of Jeffco moving the goalpost....first it was "support your TUTF rep,", then it was "show up at JCOS meetings and they'll take mountain bikers seriously," now it's "show up to a Bike Right night, and we'll take you seriously, and we mean it this time." I wonder what will be next.

    Hikers, equestrians, etc, will judge mountain bikers every time they encounter one. Each of us owns how that encounter goes. If your encounters haven't gone well, maybe these Jeffco gatherings are worth it to you. And you'll get a free bandana!
    I am sorry you feel this way. JCOS is not asking you to go to the Share the Trail or Bike Rights event. I am asking you as a fellow mountain biker. They don't advertise it. They just show up at various trail heads.

    Personally, I find the Patrol to be a very rewarding experience and I like to think, make that know, I am making a difference. Yes, you don't have to have a name plate on the front of your bike (I don't in JeffCo, just Boulder and BC) to send a message. However, I do think that having the land owners recognize who is educating and communicating has a profound effect on how they perceive that user group. Quite frankly, many users (not just bikes) see the identification and it gives them an opportunity to make suggestions, praise others for using proper etiquette (you would be surprised how many hikers and equestrians tell me how polite the riders are), and ultimately gives our user group the opportunity to request changes and have them happen. It's a slow process, but it will work.

    I invite you to come along with me on a patrol one day. I really think you would have a different view. I have been doing this for almost ten years. If It didn't have an effect, I wouldn't be wasting my time.

  19. #19
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    I took a tour of JeffCo Open Space facilities once. There was a stack of signs that said "bikes only" with an inch of dust on it. Probably 2 inches of dust by now. JeffCo needs to pull out their heads and dust of these signs.

  20. #20
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Fly Rider
    I took a tour of JeffCo Open Space facilities once. There was a stack of signs that said "bikes only" with an inch of dust on it. Probably 2 inches of dust by now. JeffCo needs to pull out their heads and dust of these signs.
    That's funny stuff.
    ROFL

    The only thing funnier would have been if you had said that they they use the backs of the signs to make new "hiker only" signs?

    I mean. Come on, it's a joke.

  21. #21
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    No joke...myth...

    Probably painted them over. Only way to know for sure is to x-ray all the signs at Mt Galbraith, hiker only jeffco open space park.

  22. #22
    Yappy little dog!
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    Great night!

    Mountain Bikers made a great showing tonight! I got to meet some new people, including a few from my home state. Funny how small this world is, especially among trail builders. We all seem to know the same people.

    Everyone was polite and friendly and had nothing but positive vibes. Lot's of excitement around the new trails as well.

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