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  1. #1
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    No good I-70 toll passes

    http://www.9news.com/news/top-articl...?storyid=88868

    As a Colorado native, I am truly disgusted.
    $5 each way.
    No definition of what the 'peak' hours are, but I'm assuming this will be in the summertime, too.
    No statement of what the solution is, just collecting money.

    Whatcha all think?
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  2. #2
    skillz to pay billz
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    hopefully the toll gate is east of idaho springs central city parkway

    Just going to cause congestion more than likely,

  3. #3
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    I've been watching this on the news for a while. As if I didn't have enough of a reason not to fight the traffic to go snowboarding, now they're going to charge me $5 as well?

    What a load

  4. #4
    skillz to pay billz
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    eldora just got a lot more crowded

  5. #5
    enlightened.
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    What does being native have to do with being peeved over a toll proposal?

  6. #6
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    The thread title is certainly misleading. It passed a single committee and still needs to survive the appropriations committee before it goes to the House.

    It sucks, but I'm not sure it is certain that its passage is a sure thing.

  7. #7
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    Bring it on! You see SO many people driving by themselves up to the ski resorts (I am guilty of this too), and having to pay $5 will increase car pooling and hopefully decrease traffic. That being said, they had better be doing something with my $5 that invests in a true solution to the I-70 traffic problem rather just a band-aid like a toll...

  8. #8
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    Lets see, skiing is one of the primary economic engines of the state, creating jobs and increasing the tax base. Shouldn't our "enlightened" government develop plans to increase the frequency of visits rather than decrease the frequency of visits?

    Maybe I'm over-thinking the subject.

  9. #9
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    What a complete load of crap. Notice how open ended it is, they are going to charge money to fund a solution, but they dont even know what the solution is yet. I garuntee that it will start out at $5 then work its way higher as people get used to paying this bull$hit fee. When i lived near SanFrancisco, the Golden Gate Bridge toll was $2 to pass, supposedly untill the bridge was paid for, then it was going to be free. It is now up to $6 or $7 and has been paid for many many times over. I smell money grubbing politians all over this!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by athalliah
    What does being native have to do with being peeved over a toll proposal?
    Cuz I've been payin (a lot) in taxes for this road my whole life.

    Flame away!
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by kristian
    Bring it on! You see SO many people driving by themselves up to the ski resorts (I am guilty of this too), and having to pay $5 will increase car pooling and hopefully decrease traffic. That being said, they had better be doing something with my $5 that invests in a true solution to the I-70 traffic problem rather just a band-aid like a toll...
    Good luck people will pay and still only have one person in the car. I was up in Jackson this winter and they do a free parking lot for carpools. If they want to cut down on single drivers maybe the stat should buy a lot in ski towns and open that to free carpool parking? or even the resorts who tend to think they are sooooo green now could do it.

  12. #12
    Living the High Life
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    Time for some fun...how about a guess how many posts this takes to get totally off topic (more than 1 guy talking about his dog or something).

    And, how many total posts?

    I'm going with around 40 posts until its pointless, but guessing this one will hit 200.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithnu
    And, how many total posts?

    I'm going with around 40 posts until its pointless, but guessing this one will hit 200.


    Proud to be the author!

    Wait, did they say no iPods allowed in your car while on I-70?
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  14. #14
    skillz to pay billz
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    would my dogs count as carpoolers

    where my dogs at?

  15. #15
    Living the High Life
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    The dogs might work if you get them to sit up with a mask on the whole way, then just put a few extra skis/boards on the car and the charade is all set

  16. #16
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    My dog...

    Just licked my face, and took a serious toll on my mustache 'doo'.

    The funds from the toll would used to widen I-70 for the new wider SUVs now popular with Texans...
    MY dog can lick YOUR dog!

  17. #17
    That's what she said
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithnu
    Time for some fun...how about a guess how many posts this takes to get totally off topic (more than 1 guy talking about his dog or something).

    And, how many total posts?

    I'm going with around 40 posts until its pointless, but guessing this one will hit 200.
    he he, I think your post just started to get it off track. Speaking of dogs, do you think a dog could count as a person in the carpool?

  18. #18
    Your retarded
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithnu
    I'm going with around 40 posts until its pointless, but guessing this one will hit 200.
    200 total posts is excessive. I bet it gets derailed within 28 and only goes to 58 total posts.
    A trail thatís too difficult wouldnít exist because itíd never be used. But, trails can exist thatíre too difficult for you.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBOASIS
    he he, I think your post just started to get it off track. Speaking of dogs, do you think a dog could count as a person in the carpool?
    Not entirely, you're still talking about the carpool aspect of the original title

  20. #20
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    "McElhany said the goal was to raise money for a solution to the I-70 congestion, not to designate what that solution would be."

    This is funny and ironic.

    BTW, if $4/gallon gas is not going to detour people for driving in droves, $5 tolls won't either.

    Time to build the Nixon tunnel I guess.

  21. #21
    That's what she said
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    What about the guy that was using an inflatable doll to use the HOV on 36.

  22. #22
    Rolling
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    Quote Originally Posted by nOOby
    would my dogs count as carpoolers

    where my dogs at?

    Remember the guy busted for having the dummy in the Denver HOV lane? He had to do community service by standing for 4 hours by the highway with a sign that said "carpool lanes are not for dummies."

    here is the dummy

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBOASIS
    What about the guy that was using an inflatable doll to use the HOV on 36.
    That would help if the doll payed her portion, but it's $5 per car.
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  24. #24
    Living the High Life
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    What sucks is I usually go up there with 1 person. So we're still a person short.

  25. #25
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    thats not all he was using it for.

  26. #26
    enlightened.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WKD-RDR
    Cuz I've been payin (a lot) in taxes for this road my whole life.

    Flame away!
    Um...it's an interstate. Funded by the federal government. I-70 is not the exclusive property of natives of Colorado.

    http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/programadmin/interstate.cfm

    Don't mind me, I'm just an invasive species.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by athalliah
    Um...it's an interstate. Funded by the federal government. I-70 is not the exclusive property of natives of Colorado.

    http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/programadmin/interstate.cfm

    Don't mind me, I'm just an invasive species.
    I pay federal taxes, too!

    (the sarcasm was not caught by the following flamer....)
    Last edited by WKD-RDR; 03-27-2008 at 03:40 PM.
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  28. #28
    enlightened.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WKD-RDR
    I pay federal taxes, too!
    Um...we all do. That's my point.

  29. #29
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    I'm guessing the state shortfall is what the state can't afford after it gets the federal funds

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by athalliah
    Um...we all do. That's my point.
    So you should be digusted, too

    If you had used this highway long before it became the CF that it is, you might follow me.
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by WKD-RDR
    As a Colorado native, I am truly disgusted.
    Bummer you couldn't close the gate behind you, eh?

    The one semi-reasonable proposal I heard was to strike an agreement with the truckers to avoid I-70 during peak hours on weekends, etc. Not sure how easy that would be or even how effective but I imagine the truckers get just as frustrated with sitting in traffic and they do cause some problems on the long uphill sections.

    I've given up and help out by not skiing as much as I used to. I just don't go anymore, you can have my spot in traffic

    Ed

  32. #32
    enlightened.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WKD-RDR
    So you should be digusted, too
    Nah...I just get disgusted with arrogant natives of any state or nation

  33. #33
    Rolling
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    To add a nice twist to this whole issue is the ozone in Colorado.

    1. Ozone levels have exceeded the 8 hour .080 ppm standard for the past couple years--and it's getting worse.
    2. The standard was lowered tp .070 ppm recently which means we will be out of attainment more often this summer.
    3. The EPA can execute a regulatory action by removing highway funds if the problem doesn't get corrected. This can create a vicious circle where traffic gets worse, which means pollution gets worse. Atlanta, GA faced this problem in 1999.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by WKD-RDR
    So you should be digusted, too
    You are hilarious.

    Back to her original question: How does being a native make a person more entitled given everyone who pays gasoline taxes, funds the interstate system?

    People in California are paying taxes to the same pool that funds I-70 in Colorado. How is that for ironic, native?

  35. #35
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    24 to 9 FTW

  36. #36
    bacon! bacon! bacon!
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    The Feds will laugh this one right into the toilet.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by athalliah
    Nah...I just get disgusted with arrogant natives of any state or nation
    My point is that I've been using that highway my whole life, and its upsetting to me from that aspect. Maybe more so than someone who has never been able to cruise home on Sunday afternoon without traffic. Thats all.

    These growing pains are tough for me, and now a toll.

    Not tryin to be self-righteous, and I'm most certainly not arrogant. (How was I being arrogant, again?)

    So my most sincere appologies to all who were so easily offended by me admitting that I am a native.
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  38. #38
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    Actually I congratulate you...

    For choosing such a great state to be born in!
    MY dog can lick YOUR dog!

  39. #39
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    Ironic that the Rep proposing this toll is from a city that can't even build a decent east-west corridor, that the only decent north-south corridor is a federally funded interstate, or that can't even bother to plow its streets when it snows. Pot, kettle, black?
    I'm making enemies faster than I can kill them!

  40. #40
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    I miss a lot of things about the Colorado Front Range, but I-70 is not one of them.

    The big issue is that I-70 needs a solution, and any solution will need lots of money. Otherwise, the only other "solution" might come from the economic downturn and ever rising gas prices that simply keep people from driving. Find money or lose money ...

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    3. The EPA can execute a regulatory action by removing highway funds if the problem doesn't get corrected. This can create a vicious circle where traffic gets worse, which means pollution gets worse. Atlanta, GA faced this problem in 1999.
    Not sure I agree with the logic on this one...more/better roads tends to equal more cars/more pollution, not less. So with more federal funds (and the wider is better std. mantra (instead of pushing more mass transit solutions) we will have MORE pollution....my 2 cents.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Three Phase
    What a complete load of crap. Notice how open ended it is, they are going to charge money to fund a solution, but they dont even know what the solution is yet. I garuntee that it will start out at $5 then work its way higher as people get used to paying this bull$hit fee. When i lived near SanFrancisco, the Golden Gate Bridge toll was $2 to pass, supposedly untill the bridge was paid for, then it was going to be free. It is now up to $6 or $7 and has been paid for many many times over. I smell money grubbing politians all over this!
    I love driving to DIA on E-470 now that the road is paid for completly and the toll is gone like they said it would be! (oh, wait....)

    Needless to say, you have a good point with a local precident.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    How does being a native make a person more entitled given everyone who pays gasoline taxes, funds the interstate system?
    I was incorrect given the federal funding part, but I-70 does connect to many STATE hwys that I use regularly, too.

    I am not saying that I am entitled to my own little expressway to the hills. I am really not that type of person.
    I just happen to think I am entitled to be a bit more upset, Reeoch. Thats all
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  44. #44
    will hike for trail
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    Its not that bad

    Bay Area folks think they live near skiing, thats traffic!
    Back East you cant get to the market without a toll and traffic!
    At least ski passes are still cheap, and skins are real cheap.
    It all may be a ploy by vacation property owners!

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by WKD-RDR
    http://www.9news.com/news/top-articl...?storyid=88868

    As a Colorado native, I am truly disgusted.
    $5 each way.
    No definition of what the 'peak' hours are, but I'm assuming this will be in the summertime, too.
    No statement of what the solution is, just collecting money.

    Whatcha all think?
    As a invasive species this makes me smile. I would call the current situation broke and it ain't getting better. A solution of some sort is needed, any solution will need funding and what better way to pay for it than to just charge the people causing the problem. It bothers me that no solution is tied to this, but long as the bill clearly stipulates the funds gathered will be used to alleviate traffic issues I'm cool with it.

    So what's your deal?
    1. You don't think there's a problem, or don't care if there is one.
    2. You think any solution won't need funding.
    3. You thinking the funding should be gotten via different methods...what would those be?
    4. ?

    Happy arguing folks...just trying to keep it on topic...I got money on 254 posts..
    The more out of shape you are, the steeper the hill looks.

  46. #46
    will hike for trail
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    More

    Besides what is $5 buck when gas will soon be over $4.

    Act and ride locally, support your local advocates!

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibmkidIII
    Not sure I agree with the logic on this one...more/better roads tends to equal more cars/more pollution, not less. So with more federal funds (and the wider is better std. mantra (instead of pushing more mass transit solutions) we will have MORE pollution....my 2 cents.
    Some people believe that theory that more roads equal more traffic. For me the jury is still out since I think people are dependent on the car, regardless of traffic. I'm definitely for more mass transit. But you have to get people to use it.

    But, I'm not necessarily talking making more roads.

    Atlanta, GA has some really bad bottlenecks in the system and the roads are congested so people sit in traffic creating more pollution. The fed threatened to take the money needed to ease the bottle necks.

    That construction near Idaho springs is an example of CDOT trying to reduce a bottleneck to keep traffic speeds up. Not sure how well it worked though.

    And back on subject. I think they should charge a toll on I70, but use it to fund FREE shuttle buses every 15 minutes from golden to the resorts. You want to convenience of having your own car, then you pay more. You take advantage of public transit, you get there cheaper.

  48. #48
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    I propose a catapult near Golden...maybe something in Heritage Square. You just hold on tight to your gear and get launched up to the resorts.

    We could have the world's best alpine slide for the trip down.

  49. #49
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    nmnmnm

  50. #50
    Rolling
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    They should put a toll booth on lookout mountain road for the shuttles of Apex.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    And back on subject. I think they should charge a toll on I70, but use it to fund FREE shuttle buses every 15 minutes from golden to the resorts. You want to convenience of having your own car, then you pay more. You take advantage of public transit, you get there cheaper.
    A solution I could agree with for sure...

  52. #52
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    This "problem" is a problem for a few hours a couple days a week. Why it is made into such a giant deal is beyond me... there are bigger fish to fry in the transportation arena, IMO.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibmkidIII
    So what's your deal?
    1. You don't think there's a problem, or don't care if there is one.
    2. You think any solution won't need funding.
    3. You thinking the funding should be gotten via different methods...what would those be?
    4. ?
    My deal is the gubment wants to take my money for a solution to be determined, and they have yet to define the times or place of this toll. The only thing they approved it taking my money, and they dont have a solid plan. If they had a good plan, I might be on board.

    Generally, I dont have a problem with I - 70. I made it up to the slopes 40-ish times this year (ooops, pardon my arrogance) and got caught in traffic once. One just has to know how to avoid this.

    Does anyone remeber when Vail was awarded the 1976 Olympics? The plan was to build a railway from Vail to Denver. But, Gov Lamm shot the idea down because it would spur too much growth, and voters sent the Olypics to Canada.
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by WKD-RDR
    <snip>
    Generally, I dont have a problem with I - 70. I made it up to the slopes 40-ish times this year (ooops, pardon my arrogance) and got caught in traffic once. One just has to know how to avoid this.
    And avoiding it isn't rocket science nor is it a secret.

  55. #55
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    I do agree it's wrong to do this without a plan.

  56. #56
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    "And back on subject. I think they should charge a toll on I70, but use it to fund FREE shuttle buses every 15 minutes from golden to the resorts. You want to convenience of having your own car, then you pay more. You take advantage of public transit, you get there cheaper."

    This is one of the smarter things in here.

    Some food for thought:
    The gas tax has been flat for like 20 years. That means as a percentage of your fuel bill it's been going down. Meanwhile construction costs are going up with or faster than inflation. That's a big part of the reason that there's no money to fix it. Don't complain about the toll or "paying all those taxes" (cause you weren't, actually). Complain to the giant oil and auto industry's lobbyists who have worked so hard to reduce fuel taxes. And used your tax money to fund a war in Iraq to keep gas cost down, for that matter.

    The other big problem I see is the growth has not been charged for it's impact. (This is a beef that any long time resident or native legitimately has). Especially the resorts have been let off the hook in this regard. If Vail wants to put in a giant expansion, the cost to the infrastructure should come out of their profit, not the taxpayers at large. Sure, this makes ticket prices go up, but at least they represent their actual impacts instead of passing those off on society at large.

    The solution lies in redistributing the traffic. The "rush hour" is two periods a week. Sat morn and Sun afternoon. To spend billions widening the road or building rail is so wasteful, expensive and environmentally damaging to just alleviate traffic for 8-10 hours per week, probably 8 months of the year (Dec-March and June-Sept). Everyone hates it, but this is why congestion pricing, weekday discounts, free parking for carpoolers, etc are all on the right track. Collect money from users who will see the benefit (tolls, impact fees on the resorts, etc.) Some farmer in Haxtun shouldn't have to subsidize some weekend warrior living in the 'burbs of Denver.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by dino
    <snip>

    Some food for thought:
    The gas tax has been flat for like 20 years. That means as a percentage of your fuel bill it's been going down.
    Is this new math? Because IIRC gas taxes are a certain amount PER GALLON. Which means as a percentage of your fuel bill they are exactly the same as when they were set.... Am I missing something?

    The other big problem I see is the growth has not been charged for it's impact. (This is a beef that any long time resident or native legitimately has). Especially the resorts have been let off the hook in this regard. If Vail wants to put in a giant expansion, the cost to the infrastructure should come out of their profit, not the taxpayers at large. Sure, this makes ticket prices go up, but at least they represent their actual impacts instead of passing those off on society at large.
    I don't like the sounds of this... it would make the backcountry more crowded.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles
    Is this new math? Because IIRC gas taxes are a certain amount PER GALLON. Which means as a percentage of your fuel bill they are exactly the same as when they were set.... Am I missing something?


    I don't like the sounds of this... it would make the backcountry more crowded.
    It's a fixed amount. Some states have a fixed amount plus a variable rate (like 7%).

    But revenue has increased somewhat over the years because consumption has increased. i like Dino' points. They seem to be on target.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    It's a fixed amount. Some states have a fixed amount plus a variable rate (like 7%).
    My math ain't so gud.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles
    And avoiding it isn't rocket science nor is it a secret.
    Lucky you, not everyone has a mighty flexible schedule, can ski the back country and/or has a place to stay overnight.

    I've almost made the complete conversion; moved here for the skiing (yep, the gate was still open), and I'm staying for the mountain biking. Mountain biking is so much easier to enjoy, right from the front door even! Now that's nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by dino
    "And back on subject. I think they should charge a toll on I70, but use it to fund FREE shuttle buses every 15 minutes from golden to the resorts. You want to convenience of having your own car, then you pay more. You take advantage of public transit, you get there cheaper."

    This is one of the smarter things in here.

    Some food for thought:
    The gas tax has been flat for like 20 years....

    The other big problem I see is the growth has not been charged for it's impact....

    The solution lies in redistributing the traffic...
    Agreed, good post dino.

    Ed

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    I do agree it's wrong to do this without a plan.
    Its also a great channel for the funds to become lost and used somewhere else. Separate account or not if that money just sits there long enough its going to be re-appropriated. Hopefully the feds will be able to see through the giant hole in this one.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by dino
    The other big problem I see is the growth has not been charged for it's impact. (This is a beef that any long time resident or native legitimately has).
    Can I say I agree with this without stepping on anyones toes or evoking emotion from a fragile monthly state?
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

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    Pretty much a ski traffic problem, especially on the weekends. Skiers must all be rich or they wouldn't tolerate paying the lift prices they pay, 4$ gas isn't going to stop them, not much will stop them. The answer is, if we are going to bow to what the skiers want, is to widen the road with the skiers money. 20$ tacked onto the lift ticket and room rates will raise some money pretty quick. Problem solved. (totally not serious)

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by edemtbs
    Lucky you, not everyone has a mighty flexible schedule, can ski the back country and/or has a place to stay overnight.
    Some suggestions:

    Go up early on Saturdays, do breakfast up there. Get some good runs in early.
    Leave early on Sunday, or leave late and do dinner... better yet, night ride Keystoner.
    There is much more to Colorado than Scummit county...
    Check out the Butte, Monarch, the Boat. If you compare drive time vs traffic, they're about the same.
    Call in sick on a pow-day.
    Spend the extra 10 minutes and go past Vail to BC, much less folk.
    Heck, Loveland usually has good snow, and is a bit closer, much less peeps.
    Use hwy 285 to get home (not suitable for all, I know).
    I have a friend who takes his laptop/books. If he finds himself in traffic he pulls off to get some work/studying done instead of wasting time being frustrated in stop-n-go traffic.

    Its all what you make of your time. You know when traffic will be there (most of the time), work around it.
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  65. #65
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    Loveland sucks. Pay no attention. Move along. Nothing to see here.


    Quote Originally Posted by WKD-RDR
    Some suggestions:
    Heck, Loveland usually has good snow, and is a bit closer, much less peeps.
    Never rub another man's rhubarb.

  66. #66
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    It is true that it is a ski problem.....driven by cheep season pass prices. I lived in Utah for a long time, passes there are around a $1,000 for one resort. The problem is everyone in Denver buys those cheep passes whether they ski much or not.

    I think it is a horrible idea, especially if the toll is enforced in the summer; don't even ski that much anymore, because of that road. Even without traffic it is a long drive.....and it makes for bad business. Our state representatives should focus on funding the rail projects in the metro area instead.

  67. #67
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    THis bill is not good for all us skier/bikers, but even worse for the businesses west of Denver. Many people will think twice about traveling up to the mountains with a toll, especially w/ gas prices climbing.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by edemtbs
    Lucky you, not everyone has a mighty flexible schedule, can ski the back country and/or has a place to stay overnight.
    There's no need for any of that. Heck - I have 3 kids (which cuts into the "flex" of the schedule) and have only been "caught" in traffic once this year...

  69. #69
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    first lifts = fresh tracks, no traffic

    leave mnt by 1pm = no traffic

    this has worked everytime this year.

  70. #70
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  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by nOOby
    first lifts = fresh tracks, no traffic

    leave mnt by 1pm = no traffic

    this has worked everytime this year.
    This has worked every time since at LEAST 1997.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles
    This has worked every time since at LEAST 1997.
    Yup, I used to do that all the time. I think I started getting lazy about the early wake ups.

    Come to think of it, I think I just started losing interest in skiing - that's my problem, it's not the traffic at all! There is no traffic except in my mind

    Ed

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by WKD-RDR
    Some suggestions:

    Go up early on Saturdays, do breakfast up there. Get some good runs in early.
    Leave early on Sunday, or leave late and do dinner... better yet, night ride Keystoner.
    There is much more to Colorado than Scummit county...
    Check out the Butte, Monarch, the Boat. If you compare drive time vs traffic, they're about the same.
    Call in sick on a pow-day.
    Spend the extra 10 minutes and go past Vail to BC, much less folk.
    Heck, Loveland usually has good snow, and is a bit closer, much less peeps.
    Use hwy 285 to get home (not suitable for all, I know).
    I have a friend who takes his laptop/books. If he finds himself in traffic he pulls off to get some work/studying done instead of wasting time being frustrated in stop-n-go traffic.

    Its all what you make of your time. You know when traffic will be there (most of the time), work around it.
    It may have been a fluke but I hit major traffic, midday, midweek this season, it did me in as far bothering to try anymore. I am pretty impatient about it and I definitely have developed a bad attitude.

    All good suggestions and been there, done that. I've done most of what you suggest and in fact we are thinking about a Monarch pass next season because it takes just about as long with less hassle to get there. Sleeping in has become more important than beating crowds.

    In the end for me, MTB'ing is so much more pleasant in so many ways. Skiing, except for back country and even there it seems to get crazier every year, has become a competition and contest around avoiding traffic and crowds.

    But I'll try and motorvate again next year, I always get up from the tarmac.

    Ed

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by brokefork
    Pretty much a ski traffic problem, especially on the weekends. Skiers must all be rich or they wouldn't tolerate paying the lift prices they pay, 4$ gas isn't going to stop them, not much will stop them. The answer is, if we are going to bow to what the skiers want, is to widen the road with the skiers money. 20$ tacked onto the lift ticket and room rates will raise some money pretty quick. Problem solved. (totally not serious)
    That sounds like a good idea to me! And I am being serious.
    I'm making enemies faster than I can kill them!

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by edemtbs
    Yup, I used to do that all the time. I think I started getting lazy about the early wake ups.

    Come to think of it, I think I just started losing interest in skiing - that's my problem, it's not the traffic at all! There is no traffic except in my mind

    Ed
    Well, geez. Then STFU.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles
    Well, geez. Then STFU.
    Done deal, only constructive posting from me from now on

    Flexible weekends in Colorado everybody! Pick your own; Tuesdays and Wednesdays can be your new Saturdays and Sundays

    Ed

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by edemtbs
    Done deal, only constructive posting from me from now on

    Flexible weekends in Colorado everybody! Pick your own; Tuesdays and Wednesdays can be your new Saturdays and Sundays

    Ed
    That would kick a$$.

  78. #78
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    Seems like the consensus is that there is too much big money from Vail resorts, etc in the pies of the leaders.

    The giant sucking sound is not the wind blowing from Kansas or Fruita and Moab pulling us to ride our bikes that way.

  79. #79
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    Yes, you are missing something

    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles
    Is this new math? Because IIRC gas taxes are a certain amount PER GALLON. Which means as a percentage of your fuel bill they are exactly the same as when they were set.... Am I missing something?


    I don't like the sounds of this... it would make the backcountry more crowded.
    Fuel taxes are per gallon. The cost of gasoline per gallon has risen, while the taxes per gallon have stayed the same. Therefore, the percentage of the price of a gallon that is taxes has gone down by a lot. That isn't new math, that is a fact.

    Taxes in Europe are over $4.00 per gallon. A gallon of gas in London is now about $8.50.

    Putting another lane on I70 would be a waste, because our individual driving days are numbered, as in about 30 years. Look at it this way. A barrel of oil in 1998 was about $10. Today it is $108. If the cost continues to rise at the same rate, a barrel in 2018 will be over $1100, and gas will be over $15.00 a gallon. That will solve all of the traffic problems. Extrapolate it out and driving in 30 years will be a major luxury.

    We can't depend on biofuels, because we have to eat before we drive. We can't do coal gasification without destroying the planet. We would have to build dozens of nukes to power electric cars, and we haven't built one in over 20 years. Oil shale is a pipe dream, as there isn't enough water or natural gas in western Colorado to produce any significant amount of oil there from shale. The Tar Sands are an environmental catastrophe already.

    Oil is a very unique commodity, and we are now in fierce competition with China and India as well as the rest of the world for a resource that can't be produced significantly faster than it is already. Saudi Arabia is declining, and is no longer the world's largest oil producer. That title belongs to our friends in Russia, but they are declining, also. Mexico has been a major supplier for the past 20 years, and their exports are crashing. We are going to end up with very few choices. One will be to fight wars for oil, which we are already doing. At the end of the day, Iraq is about oil. Period.

    Start reading http://www.theoildrum.com . You'll see where this is headed.

    Using the toll to subsidize buses would be a good start.

    BTW, I was in Chicago this week. I saw Premium gas at $3.99, and diesel at $4.50.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by steadyflow
    It is true that it is a ski problem.....driven by cheep season pass prices. I lived in Utah for a long time, passes there are around a $1,000 for one resort. The problem is everyone in Denver buys those cheep passes whether they ski much or not.

    I think it is a horrible idea, especially if the toll is enforced in the summer; don't even ski that much anymore, because of that road. Even without traffic it is a long drive.....and it makes for bad business. Our state representatives should focus on funding the rail projects in the metro area instead.
    I also lived in UT and the pass thing was a huge deal. The crazy thing is I think more locals in Denver ski than in UT. Even better this season is going to be that new great pass from Vail than anyone can get the epic pass.

  81. #81
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    Lot's of posters here are reacting like this bill is already law and the toll booths are going in next week. Not true. The bill only passed one committee. It has a long way to go and lots of public scrutiny before it can become law. If you don't like it, engage in your democracy and write or call your elected representatives.

    Personally, I think I-70 should be left as is and the congestion is the market force that keeps the I-70 corridor mountain communities from becoming even more overrun than they already are. All 'improvements" to I-70 would do is allow more people into Summit/Eagle counties and there are plenty of people there already. It might be a good time to start thinking about what the limits to the carrying capacity of the land and communities, both environmental and social, are.

  82. #82
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    take all the rtd express buses that roll all week and repurpose them as ski area shuttles. party on the mountain then bus it back to the flats

  83. #83
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    [QUOTE=WKD-RDR]Some suggestions
    There is much more to Colorado than Scummit county...
    QUOTE]

    WARNING: HEADING STRAIGHT OFF-TOPIC HERE..

    "Scummit County"? Seriously?

    On behalf of all of us scumbags living next to a go-zillion acres of federal open space jam-packed with winter and summer access let me point out a few things:

    Summit County is:
    - incredibly progressive in terms of open and green space preservation
    - populated by civic leaders committed to 'scumbag' issues like affordable housing and childcare
    - almost to a person a firm advocate of a healthy and environmentally conscious lifestyle
    - home to quite literally hundreds, possibly thousands of miles of soft-surface trails

    That sort of pettiness (and in this case about something you clearly know nothing about) says a lot more about you than it does the Summit Community.

    So on behalf of me and all the other denizens of this reeking $hithole, feel free to keep on driving.

    MM
    Last edited by MikeMac; 03-28-2008 at 08:44 AM.
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  84. #84
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    Instead of a $5 toll, I propose the state of CO starts fining drivers for running red lights, tail gating and hogging the left lane.

    We should be able to pay for a 12 lane mega highway in under a month.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  85. #85
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    So I live in Idaho Springs, but work in Winter Park... would I have to pay a toll just to go to work?

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by joelalamo45
    So I live in Idaho Springs, but work in Winter Park... would I have to pay a toll just to go to work?
    Nice commute! Must be fun working those switchbacks on mid week summers without all the traffic.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  87. #87
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    It sure beats driving to the Tech Center like I used to do.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by MavSports
    That sort of pettiness (and in this case about something you clearly know nothing about) says a lot more about you than it does the Summit Community.

    MM
    Sheesh fella, you take me WAY too seriously. I only call it that cuz I love it, I've called it home from time-to-time. Maybe you haven't been there for long enough to joke with it?

    Next time I'm around, I'll bring you a tissue.
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit
    We would have to build dozens of nukes to power electric cars, and we haven't built one in over 20 years.
    .
    I am not arguing with any of you points I just wanted to point out the Nuclear power is on the rise again. The last quote I got was 21 applications at the NRC with 9 approvals so far.

    http://www.forbes.com/columnists/for.../1126/034.html

  90. #90
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    This thread is still on topic after almost 90 posts, simply mind boggling...

  91. #91
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    today is the aniversary of three mile island, npr had a feature on it and also discussed new applications in the US


    Quote Originally Posted by nadinno78
    I am not arguing with any of you points I just wanted to point out the Nuclear power is on the rise again. The last quote I got was 21 applications at the NRC with 9 approvals so far.

    http://www.forbes.com/columnists/for.../1126/034.html

  92. #92
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    the only time i have had a problem on i70 is when the retards who spout "local, and native" and have the bumper stickers plastered all over their cars just to let you know..

    are the ones spinning off i70 when it gets a tad hairy weather wise on the way up or down..

    too cheap to spend 40 bucks on a set of chains? too many non driving idiots in the weather..

    whats the cure for that oh mighty gubment?

  93. #93
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    If only I had a flying Delorean capable of time travel. Then I could sleep in til noon, fly up there and make it 8am to get in line ahead of all you people, ride until close, then fly home over everyone!

  94. #94
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    So how do you implement a toll booth on I-70 without completely snarling traffic?

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    Alot of us CDOT workers hope we get paid this next month. THe millions$$$ that the state has spent on a non working computer system has taken millions$$$ from highway maintenance. Not that the state knows how to do highway maintenance. Yeah I work for CDOT, and my job is to just do what I am told.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonb
    So how do you implement a toll booth on I-70 without completely snarling traffic?
    The same way you do it anywhere else. You have E-Pass lanes for the regulars and everybody else uses booths. I say put it in Georgetown. Lots of level ground with room for extra toll lanes, and no easy way to avoid the toll.

    Personally, I'm willing to support the idea. That is an expensive section of interstate to maintain, much less improve, so the extra $s are justified in my mind.

    Anyway, like everybody says, this is a long way from becoming reality, so you can all untwist your knickers for now. I would be shocked to see it implemented in the next decade. Almost as shocked as I would be to see some kind of mass transit plan put into place. Remember the monorail idea that keeps floating up only to be drowned again?

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonkedAgain
    I say put it in Georgetown. Lots of level ground with room for extra toll lanes, and no easy way to avoid the toll.
    Go to WP / Steamboat, avoid the toll.
    I'm willing to bet they would put it in b4 the hwy 40 turn, mo money.
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  98. #98
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    put it at floyd hill


    I get on 70 at central city pkwy

  99. #99
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    que?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ithnu
    If only I had a flying Delorean capable of time travel. Then I could sleep in til noon, fly up there and make it 8am to get in line ahead of all you people, ride until close, then fly home over everyone!
    Why would you want to ride on that given day? If you had a time machine, pick an epic powder day and keep riding it everyday. Plus that way you could use the same lift ticket...
    Golden Bike Park

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  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by MavSports
    - almost to a person a firm advocate of a healthy and environmentally conscious lifestyle...
    What exactly does that mean?
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