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Thread: Haters

  1. #1
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    Haters

    I thought you were doing a roll call for Front Range haters so I was going to make sure my name is on the list.



    Hey, my computer is showing my post ahead of the OP. Damn Internet! If we can't have consistency here, then where?

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    Haters

    The haters have come at Lance again. This time they have "proof" he was doping. Impossible that he just was a lot better than anyone else and people don't like to get their ass kicked over and over. Have at it crybabies, maybe this time you'll bring him down.

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    "Investigating doping allegations against Lance" has a life of its own. It's a full-time job for the Lance Haters. They have their own reasons for continuing this charade, none of them have anything to do with proving any doping allegation to be true.

    What's crazy is that while this particular agency opens its new "investigation" they can put Lance on hold while they "investigate". De-facto guilty.
    A blind man searches in a dark room for a black hat that isn't there. Dashiell Hammett

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    Quote Originally Posted by ithnu View Post
    i thought you were doing a roll call for front range haters so i was going to make sure my name is on the list.



    hey, my computer is showing my post ahead of the op. Damn internet! If we can't have consistency here, then where?
    ^:d

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    Pharmstrong...

    If he would just admit it and apologize, he could still be every Fred's hero. Hell, he'd even find a way to make money off it. The problem is he's a cocky d&#k about it and expects us to believe he's clean. It's insulting to our intelligence.

    Look at these guys who have been busted, apologized, and served their penalty. The fans still love them and they're still making plenty of $$ playing the sport the love. Basso, Millar, Vino, Giambi...

    Then look at the guys that are jerks about it and keep getting drug through the mud. Hamilton, Pharmstrong, Rasmussen, Canseco, Clemens, Bonds. People hate them and eventually chase them from the sport.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggs View Post
    Pharmstrong...

    If he would just admit it and apologize, he could still be every Fred's hero. Hell, he'd even find a way to make money off it. The problem is he's a cocky d&#k about it and expects us to believe he's clean. It's insulting to our intelligence.

    Look at these guys who have been busted, apologized, and served their penalty. The fans still love them and they're still making plenty of $$ playing the sport the love. Basso, Millar, Vino, Giambi...

    Then look at the guys that are jerks about it and keep getting drug through the mud. Hamilton, Pharmstrong, Rasmussen, Canseco, Clemens, Bonds. People hate them and eventually chase them from the sport.
    You sound like a Hater, Wiggs. I don't hate any of them. Why would you hate them? What a waste of mental energy.
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  7. #7
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    And he's retired, so it's not like they're keeping him from overshadowing any new rising stars. What a waste of money. What I hate is the government thinks they need to be involved in sports. Why can't our tax money be spent on things that are actually important?
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy View Post
    You sound like a Hater, Wiggs. I don't hate any of them. Why would you hate them? What a waste of mental energy.
    Just dickish Texans. George W., Perry, Pharmstrong.

    It doesn't take much energy, they make it really easy to hate them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggs View Post
    Just dickish Texans. George W., Perry, Pharmstrong.

    It doesn't take much energy, they make it really easy to hate them.
    Ah, you hate Texans, so perforce you hate Lance. I see.
    A blind man searches in a dark room for a black hat that isn't there. Dashiell Hammett

  11. #11
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    They also want to ban him from competing in triathlons, which is his new fling and which he is sure to dominate.

    They drinking pure hateraid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbabuser View Post
    And he's retired, so it's not like they're keeping him from overshadowing any new rising stars. What a waste of money. What I hate is the government thinks they need to be involved in sports. Why can't our tax money be spent on things that are actually important?

    Agreed!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by brokefork View Post
    The haters have come at Lance again. This time they have "proof" he was doping. Impossible that he just was a lot better than anyone else and people don't like to get their ass kicked over and over. Have at it crybabies, maybe this time you'll bring him down.
    It's not about hate. Do I hate Lance? No, why would I? I've never met the guy, he has never done anything wrong to me, why would I hate someone I don't know?

    It's about having a sense of reality. Do i think Lance was doped? Hell yeah. Do I think every single rider in the top 25 of any major tour is doped? Sure thing.

    Riding 2500 miles in 3 weeks and not having a single off day just doesn't happen without medical assistance.

    Look at it this way, it's all about economy. Pro tour teams need big sponsors and those sponsors wants results. In general all the riders are as fit as possible. The way to get ahead of the pack is by never having off days, in a race like the Tour it means getting your body replenished between days with iv-drops, painkillers and what not. Same deal with NFL players, they just don't survive the beating without being "juiced up" on anything that makes them forget the beating they took a couple of days ago.

    The doctors on any pro bike team knows exactly which substances are on the list and which aren't and they will use everything available to make the riders fit for the next days racing, it's their job to do so. Some riders might be doped legally, some illegally, but they are all doped if they are in the top of a big tour.

    Do I wish pro bike racing was clean? Sure. But it'll never happen when the money is that good, there will always be someone ready to juice up for victory and the rest has to follow suit to be competitive.

    Did I like watching Lance ride? Sure, awesome rider and great tactician, always fun to follow, but I don't for a second believe he got there without being at least as juiced up as the guys he raced against.

    Almost everyone Lance ever competed with in the Tour has been found guilty of doping. Do you honestly believe that Lance could dominate those suped up guys for a decade if he was clean as a whistle himself? Really?

    Lance was the best of the suped up guys in a field of suped up guys. I admire him for those wins, but don't pull my leg and try to convince me that Lance was the clean, honest superman in a pack of dopers..

  14. #14
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    If you got caught robbing a house and the cops said "we'll let you walk if you name another burglar" what would you do?

    Give them the name of someone you hate. Even if he is innocent.

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    Trailwrecker at large

  16. #16
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    Whenever I hear discussion about Lance or doping.
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    Haters wanna hate, lovers wanna love, I don't even want none of the above..Dave Chappelle - Piss on You - YouTube

  18. #18
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    Just in:

    Lance Armstrong Wants To Tell Nation Something But Nation Has To Promise Not To Get Mad

    DALLAS—Saying that it would probably be best if everyone sat down for this, seven-time Tour de France winner Lance Armstrong informed the U.S. populace Thursday that he wanted to tell it something, but that the nation first had to promise it wouldn't get angry once he did.

    "Look, I'm not going to sugarcoat this. It's bad," Armstrong said during the nationally televised press conference. "But you have to swear to God that you won't get mad when I tell you, because if you get upset and yell about how you're really disappointed I'm just going to walk out of here."

    "Okay?" Armstrong continued. "You guys promise?"

    Armstrong then took a deep breath, massaged his forehead, murmured "Oh boy, here we go," and appeared for several moments to be on the verge of telling the nation his news. He seemed to lose his focus, however, commenting that it wasn't as if anything he was about to say would diminish the fact that he beat cancer or that his foundation has donated more than $250 million to cancer research.

    In addition, Armstrong said the American people had to promise that, following his announcement, they would resist the urge to remove their Livestrong bracelets and throw them away or burn them.

    "Okay, there's no easy way to put this, but, well, you guys know how I won a record seven consecutive Tours de France between 1999 and 2005?" said Armstrong, who took a sip of water as his hand visibly shook. "Well, this has to do with that. It also has to do with this impending federal investigation of my cycling team. What it absolutely does not have anything to do with is the fact that I am an inspiration to cancer sufferers worldwide—cancer sufferers who could potentially experience serious physical and emotional setbacks if you break your promise and get mad at me."

    Throughout the preamble to his announcement, onlookers reported getting the impression that Armstrong felt some need to defend what he was about to tell the country. The world's most successful cyclist spent almost 25 minutes telling the nation that, as a top-level international athlete, one has to do certain things to remain competitive; that he has no regrets; and that, given the chance to live his life again, he would do everything again the same way.

    Armstrong also repeatedly mentioned that he had beaten cancer.

    "You have to understand—in the high-pressure world of competitive cycling, it's all about getting any advantage you can," Armstrong said. "And if we were being realistic, we'd have to admit that everyone in cycling was trying to get an advantage. So, in a way, if we were all trying to get the same advantage, then the playing field was still completely equal. So I was still the best. It makes sense when you look at it that way. And nothing I am about to tell you changes that. So, when I'm finished saying what I have to say, you all have to promise to still adore me."

    "In fact, if you don't still adore me, and you suddenly get all huffy and say that I wasn't really a hero all these years, you are in the wrong here, not me," Armstrong added. "You. Not me."

    Armstrong then stood, paced back and forth for a moment, shook his head, and returned to the microphone.

    "You guys are not making this easy for me, that's for damn sure," he said. "This really shouldn't be hard. Because it's actually not even really that big of a deal. At all. Frankly, I don't even know why I'm here right now."

    Armstrong reiterated for a fifth and sixth time that he had beaten cancer.

    "Okay, here goes," Armstrong said. "Um, in the late '90s and early 2000s, I took, um… You see, in order to give myself a better chance of winning, I… Yes, there were instances during the Tour when…"

    "You know what? I forgot what I was going to say," Armstrong added. "Sorry. I feel like an idiot. Have a nice afternoon."


    Lance Armstrong Wants To Tell Nation Something But Nation Has To Promise Not To Get Mad | The Onion - America's Finest News Source
    Take the long cut, we'll get there eventually.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Debaser View Post
    Lance Armstrong Wants To Tell Nation Something But Nation Has To Promise Not To Get Mad

    DALLAS—Saying that it would probably be best if everyone sat down for this, seven-time Tour de France winner Lance Armstrong informed the U.S. populace Thursday that he wanted to tell it something, but that the nation first had to promise it wouldn't get angry once he did.

    "Look, I'm not going to sugarcoat this. It's bad," Armstrong said during the nationally televised press conference. "But you have to swear to God that you won't get mad when I tell you, because if you get upset and yell about how you're really disappointed I'm just going to walk out of here."

    "Okay?" Armstrong continued. "You guys promise?"

    Armstrong then took a deep breath, massaged his forehead, murmured "Oh boy, here we go," and appeared for several moments to be on the verge of telling the nation his news. He seemed to lose his focus, however, commenting that it wasn't as if anything he was about to say would diminish the fact that he beat cancer or that his foundation has donated more than $250 million to cancer research.

    In addition, Armstrong said the American people had to promise that, following his announcement, they would resist the urge to remove their Livestrong bracelets and throw them away or burn them.

    "Okay, there's no easy way to put this, but, well, you guys know how I won a record seven consecutive Tours de France between 1999 and 2005?" said Armstrong, who took a sip of water as his hand visibly shook. "Well, this has to do with that. It also has to do with this impending federal investigation of my cycling team. What it absolutely does not have anything to do with is the fact that I am an inspiration to cancer sufferers worldwide—cancer sufferers who could potentially experience serious physical and emotional setbacks if you break your promise and get mad at me."

    Throughout the preamble to his announcement, onlookers reported getting the impression that Armstrong felt some need to defend what he was about to tell the country. The world's most successful cyclist spent almost 25 minutes telling the nation that, as a top-level international athlete, one has to do certain things to remain competitive; that he has no regrets; and that, given the chance to live his life again, he would do everything again the same way.

    Armstrong also repeatedly mentioned that he had beaten cancer.

    "You have to understand—in the high-pressure world of competitive cycling, it's all about getting any advantage you can," Armstrong said. "And if we were being realistic, we'd have to admit that everyone in cycling was trying to get an advantage. So, in a way, if we were all trying to get the same advantage, then the playing field was still completely equal. So I was still the best. It makes sense when you look at it that way. And nothing I am about to tell you changes that. So, when I'm finished saying what I have to say, you all have to promise to still adore me."

    "In fact, if you don't still adore me, and you suddenly get all huffy and say that I wasn't really a hero all these years, you are in the wrong here, not me," Armstrong added. "You. Not me."

    Armstrong then stood, paced back and forth for a moment, shook his head, and returned to the microphone.

    "You guys are not making this easy for me, that's for damn sure," he said. "This really shouldn't be hard. Because it's actually not even really that big of a deal. At all. Frankly, I don't even know why I'm here right now."

    Armstrong reiterated for a fifth and sixth time that he had beaten cancer.

    "Okay, here goes," Armstrong said. "Um, in the late '90s and early 2000s, I took, um… You see, in order to give myself a better chance of winning, I… Yes, there were instances during the Tour when…"

    "You know what? I forgot what I was going to say," Armstrong added. "Sorry. I feel like an idiot. Have a nice afternoon."


    Lance Armstrong Wants To Tell Nation Something But Nation Has To Promise Not To Get Mad | The Onion - America's Finest News Source
    classic!

  20. #20
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    Dave Wiens wasn't a doper!


    There, added some actual mountain bike content.

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    I agree with pretty much everything you said except this part:
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandrenseren View Post
    Riding 2500 miles in 3 weeks and not having a single off day just doesn't happen without medical assistance.
    They did these distances in the pre-pharma days (pre-WWII -- heck, they went 3,570 miles in 1926), they just didn't do it as fast and, like you said, they had to put up with "off-days" and plan accordingly. In a very real way, that made the race more interesting -- they had to think about how hard they could go today 'cause they had to go tomorrow and they weren't getting IV rehydration or "vitamin B shots" or a couple of units of blood to wipe away the day's effort. All they got was a large plate of pasta, a glass of wine, and a massage -- so they had to measure their efforts. PEDs are as much about recovery as they are increasing top-end speed.

    Case-in-point, there's a guy who just set the "around the world" record on a bicycle and he averaged 200 miles a day everyday -- and he had no support! So yes, 2500 miles in three weeks is possible -- most of us could do it with a just a little increase in training, we just couldn't go near as fast.

  22. #22
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    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by misanthrope View Post
    I agree with pretty much everything you said except this part:
    They did these distances in the pre-pharma days (pre-WWII -- heck, they went 3,570 miles in 1926), they just didn't do it as fast and, like you said, they had to put up with "off-days" and plan accordingly. In a very real way, that made the race more interesting -- they had to think about how hard they could go today 'cause they had to go tomorrow and they weren't getting IV rehydration or "vitamin B shots" or a couple of units of blood to wipe away the day's effort. All they got was a large plate of pasta, a glass of wine, and a massage -- so they had to measure their efforts. PEDs are as much about recovery as they are increasing top-end speed.

    They were doping in the "old days" too. Amphetamines usually.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleTrail View Post
    They were doping in the "old days" too. Amphetamines usually.
    Not in the 20's & 30's. In the 50's and 60's, yeah stuff that worked started becoming available. Well, there is the famous photo of the guys smoking in the peleton in an early TDF, but that certainly wasn't performance enhancing. And amphetamines might get you through a day, but the price to pay was high (death ala Simpson or poor to nonexistent recovery) and a user would be toast the next day. Interestingly, while blood doping and EPO provide a clear advantage to most any rider, there is no good evidence that testosterone and HGH have any real performance enhancing effect (unless it's a mental effect, thinking you've gained an edge and ride accordingly).

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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleTrail View Post
    They were doping in the "old days" too. Amphetamines usually.
    And nicotine.
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    My drug of choice is caffeine.
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  27. #27
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    I think we should spend over $40,000,000 on this.. perhaps we can get a special prosecutor to investigate whether he doped or whether he was given a blowjob by someone other than his wife while competing in the TdF... I vote for Ken Starr!

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by misanthrope View Post
    Not in the 20's & 30's. In the 50's and 60's, yeah stuff that worked started becoming available. Well, there is the famous photo of the guys smoking in the peleton in an early TDF, but that certainly wasn't performance enhancing. And amphetamines might get you through a day, but the price to pay was high (death ala Simpson or poor to nonexistent recovery) and a user would be toast the next day. Interestingly, while blood doping and EPO provide a clear advantage to most any rider, there is no good evidence that testosterone and HGH have any real performance enhancing effect (unless it's a mental effect, thinking you've gained an edge and ride accordingly).
    A college football player took me aside and told me very early on that I would
    never compete at the elite level without doing d-balls and stanozolol.
    This was before EPO.

    There absolutely IS a performance benefit. Was told how to do it, what to
    use, etc... whether you did it or not was up to you. I didn't.

    HGH? it's all about recovery. You should read this:
    Drug Test | Fitness - Health and Fitness Advice | OutsideOnline.com

    Meth? they use meth daily, there is no high price the next day.
    They just dropped some more beans and off the front they go.
    That's why it's dangerous. I have no doubt some guys still use it.

    Also, I competed against LA and handful of times @ '90~'91, and
    competed against some local guys like Creed and Pate when they were
    juniors. The difference was night and day. LA is just in another league
    of fast. 53-12, 35 mph for 90 minutes. Flat out. Pain tolerance off
    the chart.

    I also have a friend who I introduced to track racing. He became a
    multi-time National and World Champion in his age group. He never
    doped. Just raw talent. Some people are that way and it's hard for
    us mortals to accept.

  29. #29
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    Armstrong is being banned from World Ironman events now, while he's under investigation by the USADA for doping during his cycling career!?!

    Seriously WTF! Can anybody give me a precedent for an athlete being banned from a sport while he's under investigation for illegal activities in another sport that he no longer competes in? Not to mention the number of investigations that have already occurred and been closed due to lack of evidence?

    Maybe the USADA needs to undergo a reorganization if they have nothing better to do with their time.

    I don't know if Armstrong did or didn't dope, but seriously isn't it time to leave him alone?

  30. #30
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles View Post
    I approve of this post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by misanthrope View Post
    Not in the 20's & 30's. In the 50's and 60's, yeah stuff that worked started becoming available. Well, there is the famous photo of the guys smoking in the peleton in an early TDF, but that certainly wasn't performance enhancing. And amphetamines might get you through a day, but the price to pay was high (death ala Simpson or poor to nonexistent recovery) and a user would be toast the next day. Interestingly, while blood doping and EPO provide a clear advantage to most any rider, there is no good evidence that testosterone and HGH have any real performance enhancing effect (unless it's a mental effect, thinking you've gained an edge and ride accordingly).
    Actually, in the 20's-50's riders used cocaine openly. They also drank alcohol.

    With that said, I don't think Armstrong doped. They would have caught him one of the 500 times he was tested. 500 times. You cant fake 500 negative tests.

    As for being able to do the tour without doping, of course you can. Just as their are dozens who have admitted doping, their are hundreds who swear they haven't and who are under no suspicion. Look at the Race Across America where the rider go 3000 miles solo in 8-9 days.


    The lamers at WADA are just frustrated that they suck, and others don't. If *they* can't imagine someone winning the Tour without dope, well, it can't be done.

    The current BS is about Armstrong's "blood irregularities". Seriously? The guy has said he sleeps in an altitude tent while training. They are chasing their tails again. Look, everyone agrees that even if Armstrong was a doper, he is at at the same time one of the most unique human specimens ever. So what is to say that someone with that kind of unique ability wouldn't also have some natural "irregularities"? It is widely know that some people naturally have a hematocrit that is over the accepted competition standard. For this they get a pass on the standard. Who is to say that Armstrong doesn't have other natural biological attributes that look "suspicious" on a various tests, and maybe it is just those attributes that make him so super-human on the bike?

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    I have no sympathy for Lance. He's a publicity hound to begin with and seems to have a habit of letting people down, including his own children, ex-wife, ex-girlfriend, and organizations that rely on him for, wait for it.... publicity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    Actually, in the 20's-50's riders used cocaine openly. They also drank alcohol.

    With that said, I don't think Armstrong doped. They would have caught him one of the 500 times he was tested. 500 times. You cant fake 500 negative tests.

    As for being able to do the tour without doping, of course you can. Just as their are dozens who have admitted doping, their are hundreds who swear they haven't and who are under no suspicion. Look at the Race Across America where the rider go 3000 miles solo in 8-9 days.


    The lamers at WADA are just frustrated that they suck, and others don't. If *they* can't imagine someone winning the Tour without dope, well, it can't be done.

    The current BS is about Armstrong's "blood irregularities". Seriously? The guy has said he sleeps in an altitude tent while training. They are chasing their tails again. Look, everyone agrees that even if Armstrong was a doper, he is at at the same time one of the most unique human specimens ever. So what is to say that someone with that kind of unique ability wouldn't also have some natural "irregularities"? It is widely know that some people naturally have a hematocrit that is over the accepted competition standard. For this they get a pass on the standard. Who is to say that Armstrong doesn't have other natural biological attributes that look "suspicious" on a various tests, and maybe it is just those attributes that make him so super-human on the bike?
    Dude, you're the textbook definition of a FANBOY.

    An extreme fan or follower of a particular medium or concept, whether it be sports, television, film directors, video games (the most common usage), etc.

    Known for a complete lack of objectivity in relation to their preferred focus. Usually argue with circular logic that they refuse to acknowledge. Arguments or debates with such are usually futile. Every flaw is spun into semi-virtues and everything else, blown to comedic, complimentary proportions.

  36. #36
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    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

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    Quote Originally Posted by WKD-RDR View Post




  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by wkd-rdr View Post





    mind.

    Blown!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Take the long cut, we'll get there eventually.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggs View Post
    Dude, you're the textbook definition of a FANBOY.

    An extreme fan or follower of a particular medium or concept, whether it be sports, television, film directors, video games (the most common usage), etc.

    Known for a complete lack of objectivity in relation to their preferred focus. Usually argue with circular logic that they refuse to acknowledge. Arguments or debates with such are usually futile. Every flaw is spun into semi-virtues and everything else, blown to comedic, complimentary proportions.
    Right.

    Show us the evidence that Lance doped. Seems like the Grand Jury would have had access to everything, but maybe you know something they didn't?

    Until then, you are the WADA fanboy and have been duped.

  41. #41
    !Vamos, flaco!
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    I loveLance ...

    ... We're talking about Lance Mountain, right? Who's this Armstrong charachter?
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    "Fact is only what you believe; fact and fiction work as a team." Jack Johnson

  42. #42
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    Couch potato

    Lance was a world champ before his cancer treatment..Not like he was a local rider that got cancer, got cured and became some super human cyclist..Maybe he doped but all those passed drug test should say something..New old evidence once again..

  43. #43
    Kaj
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyechka View Post
    Dave Wiens wasn't a doper!


    There, added some actual mountain bike content.
    If I remember right a few years back Lance was the Colorado state MTB champ. I bet they pull that too.
    Kona Wo for Fat Biking, Ibis HD3 for Trail Shredding, Merckx Road bike for collecting dust in garage

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    Right.

    Show us the evidence that Lance doped. Seems like the Grand Jury would have had access to everything, but maybe you know something they didn't?

    Until then, you are the WADA fanboy and have been duped.

    You can choose to believe in fantasy and think Lance is magic.

    I choose to believe in common sense and logic.

  45. #45
    Living the High Life
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaj View Post
    If I remember right a few years back Lance was the Colorado state MTB champ. I bet they pull that too.
    He was, I was at the race (for the DH) but watched parts of the XC. He was a football field ahead on the initial fire road climb as it went by the 4X. Just in another class all together. He won by 3 minutes. I remember him going by on the 1st lap and he was already ahead by that much, must have taken it easy after that. I bet he doped up big time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithnu View Post
    He was, I was at the race (for the DH) but watched parts of the XC. He was a football field ahead on the initial fire road climb as it went by the 4X. Just in another class all together. He won by 3 minutes. I remember him going by on the 1st lap and he was already ahead by that much, must have taken it easy after that. I bet he doped up big time.

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    You are just so naive.

  47. #47
    Clyde on a mission!
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    Quote Originally Posted by misanthrope View Post
    Case-in-point, there's a guy who just set the "around the world" record on a bicycle and he averaged 200 miles a day everyday -- and he had no support! So yes, 2500 miles in three weeks is possible -- most of us could do it with a just a little increase in training, we just couldn't go near as fast.
    I didn't say 2500 miles in 3 weeks were impossible, just that staying ahead of the world elite 21 days in a row without a single day with "rubbery legs" can't be done without a daily, medical "overhaul"..

  48. #48
    Your bike is incorrigible
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    Can anyone tell me why this **** gets discussed in a mountain bike forum?

    Lance is an asshat. Get over it and start talking about something that matters.

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    "Lance is an asshat." LOL. You're a funny guy.
    A blind man searches in a dark room for a black hat that isn't there. Dashiell Hammett

  50. #50
    bacon! bacon! bacon!
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    Props to WKD-RDR.

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