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Thread: Hall Ranch rant

  1. #1
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    Hall Ranch rant

    I love Hall Ranch. But if there is one improvement I think it could use it would be to make the Nelson loop directional.

    Clockwise is best. Who else gets bummed out when your riding it clockwise rippin through those great sections and you have to slow down and/or stop for people going in the other (lamer) direction.

    Furthermore does anybody else out there think that the downhill rider should have the right of way. I hate having my flow stopped cruising down but stopping when I'm grunting my way up doesn't bother me at all.

    OK...I'm done. Just wondering if anyone else feels the same.

  2. #2
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    I don't like to be told which way I can ride usually but also can't argue with any of your points.
    Climbing having right of way make more sense but if you really think about it deep down you might retract that one.

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    If you want to DH, take a lift up, if you want to ride trails on the front range learn to yield to climbing riders...if you want more regulations than we already have, become a hiker....BR

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    Wow, two years ago this thread would have gone down in flames immediately.

    I was with you until you through the forst paragraph, but I prefer to keep going when I'm climbing. It sucks to stop and start when youre climbing. BUT I also dont mind so much if the person coming down just slows a little and gives some acknowledgement that I'm there instead of total dismount. To each his own..its open space...if you have a problem voice it to that person not JCOS or whatever and it'll owrk itself out. I've said this before--look at the social code of ethics for skating in a crowded skatepark. There really aren't any 'rules' per se, but if you're an idiot you get called out. The yuppies that hand around Hall Ranch aren't about to take matters into their own hands and they wouldnt have the balls nor tact to do it right anyway, so we need the nanny.

    To that end, if you 'flow' by me like an ass I might just turn around right there. Then theres the whole sense of entitlement thing...

  5. #5
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    Good in theory, bad in practice.
    But wishes are often like that. A better idea might be to wish for more tolerance and clarity to see through to the fact that just being on a bike on a trail is pretty awesome.

  6. #6
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    I rode it yesterday once in each direction and would prefer to keep doing so. Stopping on the descent for other users is par for the course on county open space parks.
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    Heaven forbid the rest of us ride the trail when you're even out there.

    I prefer to ride it in either direction and while I don't like stopping for the uphill rider I consider it common courtesy and would like others to do the same for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ttunes22

    ...Furthermore does anybody else out there think that the downhill rider should have the right of way. I hate having my flow stopped cruising down but stopping when I'm grunting my way up doesn't bother me at all.
    SERIOUSLY????

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttunes22
    I love Hall Ranch. But if there is one improvement I think it could use it would be to make the Nelson loop directional.

    Clockwise is best. Who else gets bummed out when your riding it clockwise rippin through those great sections and you have to slow down and/or stop for people going in the other (lamer) direction.

    Furthermore does anybody else out there think that the downhill rider should have the right of way. I hate having my flow stopped cruising down but stopping when I'm grunting my way up doesn't bother me at all.

    OK...I'm done. Just wondering if anyone else feels the same.
    Jon Stewart is that you?


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    Riders and their "flow". What about those pesky red lights when you're driving? So inconvenient.

    The one thing I'd change about Hall is to make Nighthawk biker only, one way, one day a week, in the middle of the week to keep traffic down, from the intersection down by the parking lots up to Nelson. I've hiked that and it sure would be cool to ride it. Dreaming now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttunes22
    Furthermore does anybody else out there think that the downhill rider should have the right of way. I hate having my flow stopped cruising down but stopping when I'm grunting my way up doesn't bother me at all.

    OK...I'm done. Just wondering if anyone else feels the same.
    Ride it at night...you don't have to stop for anyone.

  12. #12
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    except for maybe a ranger or sheriff...
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    I agree that Nelson should be directional. Having it bi-directional basically guarantees that you will see everyone who is riding on the trail twice. It makes Hall seem way more crowded than it really is. I disagree with downhill having the right of way though.

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    Be careful what you ask for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ttunes22
    I love Hall Ranch. But if there is one improvement I think it could use it would be to make the Nelson loop directional.

    Clockwise is best. Who else gets bummed out when your riding it clockwise rippin through those great sections and you have to slow down and/or stop for people going in the other (lamer) direction.

    Furthermore does anybody else out there think that the downhill rider should have the right of way. I hate having my flow stopped cruising down but stopping when I'm grunting my way up doesn't bother me at all.

    OK...I'm done. Just wondering if anyone else feels the same.
    If you don't want your flow interrupted, ride it at 6am. No ones there, well, except me. Going your lame direction no doubt.
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  16. #16
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    In most cases directional trails will switch on a monthly basis, leaving your 'favorite' direction off-limits 6 months a year. Nice work.

  17. #17
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    In addition to that, directional travel is generally the first step a land manager will make when it comes to bike restrictions. Not good.
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  18. #18
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    yeah, not really a good precedent coming from inside the bike community.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttunes22
    I love Hall Ranch. But if there is one improvement I think it could use it would be to make the Nelson loop directional.

    Clockwise is best. Who else gets bummed out when your riding it clockwise rippin through those great sections and you have to slow down and/or stop for people going in the other (lamer) direction.

    Furthermore does anybody else out there think that the downhill rider should have the right of way. I hate having my flow stopped cruising down but stopping when I'm grunting my way up doesn't bother me at all.

    OK...I'm done. Just wondering if anyone else feels the same.
    Crazy thought...some people like climbing and don't like their "flow" interupted either. Majority of the time it's much harder to resume a climb than resume going downhill.

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    I'm surprised at the negative reaction to directional trails. I think in busy spots they would really open up the flow and reduce the feel of it being crowded. Roxboro, Cent Cone for ex. I remember doing 401 in CB last year(not directional, but nobody rides up), and we felt like we were the only ones on the trail. Until we stopped, and a constant flow of people went by. You just don't have a sense of the others on a directional trail. Don't have a strong opinion on this, but like to hear others comments.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woolbury
    I'm surprised at the negative reaction to directional trails. I think in busy spots they would really open up the flow and reduce the feel of it being crowded. Roxboro, Cent Cone for ex. I remember doing 401 in CB last year(not directional, but nobody rides up), and we felt like we were the only ones on the trail. Until we stopped, and a constant flow of people went by. You just don't have a sense of the others on a directional trail. Don't have a strong opinion on this, but like to hear others comments.
    When I'm riding I'm a lot slower than most. A directional trail would give the faster riders the sense they could just bomb down as fast as they want. They'll then be having confrontations with riders like me only trying to pass at inopportune times, to keep their "flow" on ya know? Especially at Hall.

    Now if it was just a continuous gut bustin' climb and it was directional UP, that would suit me just fine.
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  22. #22
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    I have an idea. Lets get the open space people to plow the trails double wide and put two yellow stripes down the middle.

    Or another idea is to just put tissue and pacifiers at various points along the trail for those who can't handle the yielding.

  23. #23
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    yeah, manpons might help with the flow as well.

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    I'm not trying to make any point really, just an observation:

    I feel like the vast majority of people on here would outlaw airborne-ness on these trails if they could.

    I never thought I'd see so many people with such an unappreciation for going fast. MTB'ers in the office can be that way too. Exercise fetish. Why not just climb Denali or something, you don't need hydraulic brakes and shocks to get a workout.

    That being said, how hard is it to unclip a foot and get ready to stop on a DH? A fair bit easier than getting started again on the uphill.

    I do agree with the direction on Nelson loop, how the hell else are you going to jump those water berms? But again, someday you might get bored by that direction, or *gasp* have to stop for hikers anyways. Crowded is crowded.

    Deal.

    But for the rest of you...

    Climbing? (sigh) Climb on.

  25. #25
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    Since you asked

    I'd much rather have my downhill interrupted than my uphill. Plus, I have always appreciated that this was an unwritten rule that 90% of mtbers understand. Thankfully, if I end up having to yield for another trail user either direction - I'm still enjoying the outdoors on my bike = a happy dude.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmTee

    I never thought I'd see so many people with such an unappreciation for going fast.

    Enjoying going fast and proper trail manners are not mutually exclusive.

    Where you read that otherwise in the thread is beyond me and probably to many others here.

    Even if you were to make the trail unidirectional, you still have to deal with hikers and runners on these trails. You guys want to close it to them too?

    Once again to summarize.

    1. If you like to go fast on the DH portions, ride at hours when the crowds are low. Quit arriving at the crack of noon.

    2. As an alternative, go to Keystone or other resort and rent a chair.

    3. Get in the loop and find the inside stuff that very few people know about.

    4. Buy a big parcel of land and make your own trail.

    But remember, County and City governments, who have an obligation to set rules and please all trail users, are also the ones who make these trails happen. Public access to trails requires compromises.
    Last edited by lidarman; 07-06-2010 at 05:31 PM.

  27. #27
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    I've ridden on a number of trails (none in CO) where it was 'one way'. It makes for an incredibly enhanced experience to not have to worry about meeting oncoming traffic. As a general rule, I support the idea for trails with limited sight distance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    Enjoying going fast and proper trail manners are not mutually exclusive.

    Where you read that otherwise in the thread is beyond me and probably to many others here.
    I got if from the patronizing tone everyone uses toward "flow" and the high holiness of the climb. And as I said, I see it in person too. I never advocated zoom over manners, I just pick up on the tone here and on many threads, saying that the problem is always how the guy enjoys riding, and that he even chose to go fast, and not that he simply needs to get a whole lot better before he goes that fast. Instead it's always an attack on his bike, his attire, and the concomitant implication that he sure must like going fast, rather than his bad judgement at that instant.

    Life is also a compromise between anal retentiveness and recklessness, responsibility and enjoyment.

    I already stated in my post that he would have to yield to hikers anyways, so "flow interruption" would be inevitable. I almost feel like you didn't read the thing all the way to the bottom.

    If you want to go fast:

    Pick your head up, look farther than just 15 feet in front of you. (It'll help with the process of go-fast itself, too)

    Don't be a dick on blind corners.

    Hurt yourself, not others. (Yield).

    The end.

  29. #29
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    there's not one person on here that doesn't like the 'flow' of MTB, it's people who come on here and whine about 'Their flow' being ruined by other trail users that is problematic.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by nOOby
    there's not one person on here that doesn't like the 'flow' of MTB, it's people who come on here and whine about 'Their flow' being ruined by other trail users that is problematic.
    Agreed.

    Anytime ya go to a FR trail that is obviously popular, you must expect to have to yeild, and if you're going to Hall on a nice day, you should put money down you're gonna have to yeild at least 30 times in your favorite part.

    I love Hall, and love that other people love Hall. But its a close, popular, and well designed trail, convienience like that does have its drawbacks.
    Down is the new up.

  31. #31
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    Im coming out of my usual lurker status just to comment in this thread...

    Hall is one of my favorite after work rides and have witnessed many people who dont want their flow to be interrupted on the downhill while im climbing the rock garden or any other section of the trail. I'll be the first to admit that I go way to fast on the downhill on this trail and catch more people going down that I do going up. however, every time I see another rider I slow down and yield for them, or if they yield to me at least be courteous enough to offer a "thank you" to them. Its unwritten trail etiquette to yield to uphill traffic. who cares if it disturbs my flow downhill. just makes it more of a workout pedaling up to speed again.

  32. #32
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    Where's the popcorn?

    I love 'flow' and we have built a 'flow' trail that IS Directional for only THOSE that like to go DOWN for FLOW. You'll need to leave some money in Golden, though... buying a beer is the best way to pay the taxes (or be a member of COMBA). If you don't like it at Hall Ranch, don't go!
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndecentExposure
    If you don't like it at Hall Ranch, don't go!
    Or at the very least, know when to go. Going early, early will give you an uninterupted climb but you'll be combating traffic on your descent. I like to go late in the day - maybe a couple hours before dusk. I'll keep doing laps at the top until I no longer see people. Almost always have the rock garden descent to myself then. Hall crowded? nah.
    If you go at 10am on a Saturday, though, it's a totally different deal.

    Be outside of the bell curve. And for the record, I really like to ride fast, even at Hall. Up and down. In either direction. And in the air.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ignazjr
    Or at the very least, know when to go.
    Exactly! some of the best times to go is early morning!
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  35. #35
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    Best times for Lyons

    1. Early morning mid week Just you and the bunnies shredding the gnar

    2. Mid-day mid week

    Never Saturday mornings....

    But then I only work 15 minutes from the trail head and have a *****in' gym w/ showers at work, so I'm spoiled.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woolbury
    I'm surprised at the negative reaction to directional trails. I think in busy spots they would really open up the flow and reduce the feel of it being crowded. Roxboro, Cent Cone for ex. I remember doing 401 in CB last year(not directional, but nobody rides up), and we felt like we were the only ones on the trail. Until we stopped, and a constant flow of people went by. You just don't have a sense of the others on a directional trail. Don't have a strong opinion on this, but like to hear others comments.
    I've seen people ride up 401 more then once...........maybe you should get out more!

  37. #37
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    It's usually far easier to pass oncoming traffic than it is slower traffic in front of you (especially when they can't see your orange half-lid).

    Track!
    What?
    TRACK!
    WHAT?

    *uggh*

    On your left!
    No you're not?
    PASSING ON YOUR LEFT!
    Why? We're in the parking lot already.

  38. #38
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    Indeed

    Quote Originally Posted by nOOby
    Be careful what you ask for.
    As one of the few who have spent the last two decades in the faces of those who don't want bikes on the trail, or want to unilaterally restrict our access so hikers that don't want to deal with the 'hassle' of mountain bikers on the trail, it's sad that those of our own user group feels that we need more restriction.

    Directional use is an appropriate tool for managing user conflict, but only if everyone(hikers, horsemen, bikers) has skin in the game.

    What I am hearing here is that someone doesn't want to deal with the 'hassle' of others they might need to yield to on the trail.

    Too many people and too few trail miles... that's the reality. It will never be enough

    Get along or move to Idaho.... your choices if you want to stay happy
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Maestro
    I've seen people ride up 401 more then once...........maybe you should get out more!
    Just did that a couple weeks ago. Judd Falls up to Schofield Pass...was rather fun actually.

  40. #40
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    This time of year there is so much better riding I don't even bother with hall.
    Also I ride it quite a bit in the winter so by spring I'm already over it.
    Yes I yeild. Kinda.

  41. #41
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    Exactly toHELLuRide. I rode Hall twice in the last 2 weeks but it's the first time I've been there in about 2 months. And I live 5min away from the trailhead.
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by EricTheRed
    Agreed.

    Anytime ya go to a FR trail that is obviously popular, you must expect to have to yeild, and if you're going to Hall on a nice day, you should put money down you're gonna have to yeild at least 30 times in your favorite part.

    I love Hall, and love that other people love Hall. But its a close, popular, and well designed trail, convienience like that does have its drawbacks.
    Maybe it's just that I'm not much of a descender anyway, but it doesn't bother me in the least to yield to someone climbing up the other way. In fact, I always take it as an opportunity to be polite and say hi to another rider out getting their grin on.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ignazjr
    I rode it yesterday once in each direction and would prefer to keep doing so. Stopping on the descent for other users is par for the course on county open space parks.
    I agree. I prefer to ride the loop CCW, if I'm not going to ride a loop in either direction.

    Additionally, while I generally make trail for descending riders, I do my best to pull over and stop and offer a "how ya doin'?" for climbing riders when gravity is working for me.
    I'm just here for the food.

  44. #44
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    I bet Hall was dead today.


    .... and the worms were out too.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogidave
    1. Early morning mid week Just you and the bunnies shredding the gnar

    2. Mid-day mid week

    Never Saturday mornings....
    Saturdays are reserved for high country or resort riding!
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  46. #46
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    Yielding to the uphill biker on Boulder County Open Space trails is not just good trail etiquette, it's the law, which states that you must either stop for the uphill biker or slow to a walking speed (room on the trail allowing).

  47. #47
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    whoa

    Didn't realize that would be so controversial. Seems like some people agree with the directional idea but most disagree about the yielding issue.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttunes22
    Didn't realize that would be so controversial. Seems like some people agree with the directional idea but most disagree about the yielding issue.
    It amazes me that there's any discussion at all about the yielding issue. For as long as I've ever ridden a mtb, and I'm sure it's much the same for everyone else, it's been a widely accepted "rule" or conventional way of doing things that descending riders yield to uphill riders.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudge
    It amazes me that there's any discussion at all about the yielding issue. For as long as I've ever ridden a mtb, and I'm sure it's much the same for everyone else, it's been a widely accepted "rule" or conventional way of doing things that descending riders yield to uphill riders.
    It's like that guy getting shuttled to the top of Apex/Chimney Gulch by his lady, them bombing down screaming at everyone to get out of his way. He's never heard that what he's doing is unacceptable. At least, that's one defense he can bring up at his trial. The "nobody told me" defense.
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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttunes22
    Didn't realize that would be so controversial. Seems like some people agree with the directional idea but most disagree about the yielding issue.
    You better re-read the posts. You've got that backwards.

    Everybody agrees on yielding. Uphill has he right of way. Always was.

    Many of us, out of "kindness", on any given day "might" yield to a DH rider, but I'd be ranting like you if every time I was trying to clean a slow, tech uphill section, I got run off by a DH'r.

    As far as directional trails, that what lifts are for. Everything else in the "Front Range" is a bi-directional x-c trail .

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