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  1. #1
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    Hall Ranch Etiquette-1/23

    Today, as me and my buddy were riding down the tech section I pulled over for someone behind me-

    My buddy Dan always lets me stay up front. Thinking he was still behind me riding a too close wheel I noticed it wasn't him and pulled over. This person goes by and says , OK?
    I then repled fine "On the left would have been really cool." His next response was you don't have to be so"testy". He continued down as I said, "I didn't mean it that way. No worries."

    My buddy said I didn't ask him in a rude way.
    Was it wrong to ask for a verbal pass? Or should I have just kept hammering him into race pace and make him beg me to move over or watch him or me OTB?

    I'm the guy saying Hello and Thanks up there.

    I'll shut up now -
    T
    If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is definitely not for you.

  2. #2
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    Sorry dude, you're both busted. You did all the right things except for the pass on the left piece - even though you didn't mean it 'harshly' (was it intended as a joke?) - you just gotta be cheerfully courteous to a stranger. His response was more inappropriate but he appeared to interpret your comment (incorrectly) as rude and couldn't handle it without a retort.

    "Only your best friends know exactly what you mean, nobody else understands how you think."

    Tough call.

  3. #3
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    He wasn't on either a Ti or light-blue SS, or a pseudo-DH bike, was he? 'Cos I can vouch for all of them today, and no one went home angry!

    Hall was PACKED today, and I'm sure there were more than a few misunderstandings and minor altercations. You're not alone, but it sounds like everything is cool now.
    "I've courted brain damage like some courtesan of darkness."


    -The Good Doctor

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcgrupp
    Today, as me and my buddy were riding down the tech section I pulled over for someone behind me-

    My buddy Dan always lets me stay up front. Thinking he was still behind me riding a too close wheel I noticed it wasn't him and pulled over. This person goes by and says , OK?
    I then repled fine "On the left would have been really cool." His next response was you don't have to be so"testy". He continued down as I said, "I didn't mean it that way. No worries."

    My buddy said I didn't ask him in a rude way.
    Was it wrong to ask for a verbal pass? Or should I have just kept hammering him into race pace and make him beg me to move over or watch him or me OTB?

    I'm the guy saying Hello and Thanks up there.

    I'll shut up now -
    T
    You said yourself you pulled over. So why do you feel a verbal pass necessary, much less expect one? Usually, when I hear someone behind me (and let's face it, we usually do hear them coming just fine without a verbal call out), I simply move to the right and make room. And all this is done in complete peace, quiet, and rockin' good trail harmony.

    IMO, you probably were being too testy. It's not like he barrelled down as you came up a tight section with the right of way. That always pisses a person off. I say, be patient and forgiving -- particularly with your fellow mountain bikers. Save your animosity for the uptight hikers. (totally kidding)

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcgrupp
    Today, as me and my buddy were riding down the tech section I pulled over for someone behind me-

    My buddy Dan always lets me stay up front. Thinking he was still behind me riding a too close wheel I noticed it wasn't him and pulled over. This person goes by and says , OK?
    I then repled fine "On the left would have been really cool." His next response was you don't have to be so"testy". He continued down as I said, "I didn't mean it that way. No worries."

    My buddy said I didn't ask him in a rude way.
    Was it wrong to ask for a verbal pass? Or should I have just kept hammering him into race pace and make him beg me to move over or watch him or me OTB?

    I'm the guy saying Hello and Thanks up there.

    I'll shut up now -
    T

    You might have been a little in the wrong. You stated that you pulled over to allow him to pass, so he more than likely assumed no announcement was needed. It sounds like his "OK?" was an inquiry as to your condition. He probably was checking to see if you pulled over due to a problem, and then may have taken offense at your response. Sounds like you cleared it up at the end though.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfields4013
    It sounds like his "OK?" was an inquiry as to your condition. He probably was checking to see if you pulled over due to a problem, and then may have taken offense at your response. Sounds like you cleared it up at the end though.
    Yeah, that's what I was thinking too as I read this. Some people are just testy out on the trails (and probably other places), but it takes all kinds, and I just try to ignore it, I'm not gonna let someone else's gripes mess up my day. I can't worry about their issues, all I can do is try to be polite. Apparently, some people are just born irritated and/or ignorant and riding on a trail didn't cause that.

    Cheers,

    Dave
    [SIZE=2]Just Passing Through: eatin' dirt & crappin' dust[/SIZE]

  7. #7
    starladear
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    If you pulled over what is your problem? sounds like he put you into hammering race pace and you were begging for some space and you lost!!!!!! when you know they are coming up and it sounds like you did just move over and deal with it and know thats just the way it goes. Doesn't sound like he passed you improperly. calm down

  8. #8
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    Yummy

    I try to ride a courteously as possible. That said, I have a bad habit of coming up on people (who are also descending) so fast that they eat sh1t. It's happened literally dozens of times.

    So whaddya do. I'm not gonna yell "passing" cause its rude and, well, ya can't pass on ST anyhow. It'd cause the other rider to eat sh1t.

    Sometimes I come up behind causual and say something like "Mind if I slide by?" This usally causes the other rider to look over their shoulder, and consequently eat sh1t.

    So sometimes I say nothing and wait for them to stop. Often, they try to immediately get out of my way and eat sh1t.

    My favorites are the ones who ride off trail for me to pass, or expect me to do the same. Off trail riders can eat sh1t.

    Meanwhile, I'm not really in that big a hurry.

  9. #9
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    We didn't go to hall Sunday simply due to the expected numbers of riders and likely crap on the loop. We did laps on Rabbit instead which also had it's share of people and mud.

    ...But Hall has always been a haven of tension when it's crowded. One time Kitchenware got in a heated argument with a rider who tossed his bike down and charged him. I tried to moderate but the tension was very very thick.

  10. #10
    Perpetually single track
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    Let's be honest now...we ALLLLLLL know KW is a serious instigator... I always see that hoodlum riding his bike on the CU campus like an urban outlaw.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    ...But Hall has always been a haven of tension when it's crowded. One time Kitchenware got in a heated argument with a rider who tossed his bike down and charged him. I tried to moderate but the tension was very very thick.
    The out & back nature lends to a lot of congestion at points, most notably the rock garden. Nobody going dowhill wants to yield to someone crawling up hill. I've found that about 75% of the time even if I have the right of way (in theory) I end up having to yield.

    I pretty much avoid it at all costs on the weekends.

  12. #12
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    Chicken

    Quote Originally Posted by Jdub
    Nobody going dowhill wants to yield to someone crawling up hill. I've found that about 75% of the time even if I have the right of way (in theory) I end up having to yield.
    A few years ago I was climbing Mack Ridge, and some jerkoff came around a bend and decided that I was gonna stop for him. Boy was he wrong.

    After he ran into me and fell over, I said (without dabbing) "YIELD!" and continued on my way.

    I feel slightly evil for that one, but it was fun. How often do you really get to play chicken on the trail?

    Hmmm, actually this thread is about Hall so please, dont answer that.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by singletrack
    A few years ago I was climbing Mack Ridge, and some jerkoff came around a bend and decided that I was gonna stop for him. Boy was he wrong.

    After he ran into me and fell over, I said (without dabbing) "YIELD!" and continued on my way.

    I feel slightly evil for that one, but it was fun. How often do you really get to play chicken on the trail?

    Hmmm, actually this thread is about Hall so please, dont answer that.
    Nice - that will teach 'em. We're going to have to hook up for a ride when I make it out there this spring - I'm supposed to visit the step sister in Fruita before too long.

  14. #14
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    I'm testy in crowded conditions. This is what I would do. If I come up on someone, and they don't pull over in a reasonable amount of time [depending on the conditions, trail, danger, etc] I ask if I can pass them. If someone comes up on me, I expect the same. I hate when someone rides right on my ass, and wants to sit there, and yes, I will get testy with them.
    That's one reason why I only ride hall ranch once every two years.
    ****

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by singletrack
    A few years ago I was climbing Mack Ridge, and some jerkoff came around a bend and decided that I was gonna stop for him. Boy was he wrong.

    After he ran into me and fell over, I said (without dabbing) "YIELD!" and continued on my way.

    I feel slightly evil for that one, but it was fun. How often do you really get to play chicken on the trail?

    Hmmm, actually this thread is about Hall so please, dont answer that.
    I had a similar experience climbing Bergen, up the second ladder (before the Too Long junction). Evidently the two guys coming down thought I'd should -- or would -- be pulling over up the stairs. I didn't. And they continued down. This game of chicken ended when the first guy endo-ed in spectacular fashion, landing about twenty feet down from his bike. I said nothing but continued the climb with more of a smile on my face. That was a good day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    depending on the conditions, trail, danger, etc] I ask if I can pass them. If someone comes up on me, I expect the same. I hate when someone rides right on my ass, and wants to sit there, and yes, I will get testy with them.
    Why on earth? They're likely being polite by not asking for the pass. There can be a little I-just-kicked-your-ass associated with the "Passing on your left!" routine. A person remaining quiet, and patient, waiting for you to move is probably showing you a modicum of respect as a fellow biker and sparing you that embarrassment. If you hear someone, move the hell over -- in advance! -- or ask if they'd like to pass. That's polite.

    Sorry to be blunt, but this whole need for a callout to pass, from fellow mountain bikers, strikes me as nothing short of nitpicking the rules, and frankly, IMHO appears to be more an effort to save face from lesser bikers. You got passed. Deal with it. It will happen again. I promise.

    Callouts should be irrelevant. Be aware of your surroundings. Get the hell out of the way of climbers as you descend; and when you hear another rider approaching you from behind, accept that your pace is without doubt slower than theirs. Realize that your slowness is now messing with their mojo. Badly. So move. And spare him, or her, the hall monitor attitude.

    Don't require bikers to ask permission for yields you should have already granted. That's lame. And if that's your style, perhaps you should take up hiking instead.
    Last edited by TVC15; 01-24-2005 at 11:52 AM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by TVC15
    Callouts should be irrelevant. Be aware of your surroundings. Get the hell out of the way of climbers as you descend; and when you hear another rider coming up behind you. Once you hear them, know that your pace is slower than theirs; and consider that your slowness is now messing with their mojo. Move. Don't requiring bikers to ask permission for yields you should have given already.
    Nicely put....

    edit:
    FWIW, I'm the one who's usually getting passed....

    My point is that no one is required to ask for a yield. If they wanna hang off your back wheel, and you don't stop to let them pass, that's life. If someone's right on my wheel, I'll simply stop and let them pass...nothing has to be said even. If someone's being polite and hanging back 20 feet or so, I'll say "let me know if you want to pass" and leave the rest to them...sometimes they want to pass, sometimes they're happy to hang back.

    For all the reasons mentioned here, I also try to ride areas when they're less crowded, and when they are I go elsewhere.
    Last edited by ibmkidIII; 01-24-2005 at 12:06 PM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by TVC15
    Sorry to be blunt, but this whole need for a callout to pass, from fellow mountain bikers, strikes me as nothing short of nitpicking the rules, and frankly, IMHO appears to be more an effort to save face from lesser bikers. You got passed. Deal with it. It will happen again. I promise.

    Callouts should be irrelevant. Be aware of your surroundings. Get the hell out of the way of climbers as you descend; and when you hear another rider approaching you from behind, accept that your pace is without doubt slower than theirs. Realize that your slowness is now messing with their mojo. Badly. So move. And spare him, or her, the hall monitor attitude.

    Don't require bikers to ask permission for yields you should have already granted. That's lame. And if that's your style, perhaps you should take up hiking instead.
    Hall ranch is an urban riding area. Crowded. Because so it does require that people get along, and more or less ride by some rules. Since no one seems to agree on them, conflicts will arise. I choose not to ride in crowded areas because I can, and I because riding those places is not why I ride. The rare time I do ride a trail that has another trail user, I exercise etiquette. For lots of reasons.
    TVC15, do you have a chip on your shoulder or something?
    ****

  18. #18
    jl
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    I was at Hall's (parade) on Sunday, and overall, most everyone was gracious and just glad to be out riding and enjoying the weather. I've seen it much worse in early spring. There were a couple of episodes, I witnessed, the only one that frustrated me was some guy (experienced rider) descending to fast with uphill riders, me included. It was okay with me, but it could definitely intimidate a beginner rider.

    -- rant on--
    My pet peeve of the day--if you are going to ride the loop, stay in the mud! I didn't ride the loop on Sunday, because I knew it was going to be muddy. I was up there a couple of weeks ago--when the ground was frozen, and it's obvious a lot of people are riding in the grass. Before long it's going to be Nelson loop doubletrack--then it will be a _hikers_ only loop, and the bikers will clamour that's not fair. If the bikers can't respect the trail and other users, it is _fair_ to get rid of the problem.

    Please remind people, politely, to stay in the tracks and keep the singletrack single. Also, if you think you need to race or "train," don't do it at Halls on the weekend. Do it on Thursday morning right after sunrise. No one will complain. ...
    --rant off--
    Ride On!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    TVC15, do you have a chip on your shoulder or something?
    Heck no! I just find it rude to get stuck riding behind someone futilely hanging on to a lead they can't keep. It messes with my mojo. And that's a problem.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jl
    -- rant on--
    My pet peeve of the day--if you are going to ride the loop, stay in the mud! I didn't ride the loop on Sunday, because I knew it was going to be muddy. I was up there a couple of weeks ago--when the ground was frozen, and it's obvious a lot of people are riding in the grass. Before long it's going to be Nelson loop doubletrack--then it will be a _hikers_ only loop, and the bikers will clamour that's not fair. If the bikers can't respect the trail and other users, it is _fair_ to get rid of the problem.

    Please remind people, politely, to stay in the tracks and keep the singletrack single. Also, if you think you need to race or "train," don't do it at Halls on the weekend. Do it on Thursday morning right after sunrise. No one will complain. ...
    --rant off--

    AMEN!

    See the first picture here: Another Hall Ranch 1/22 thread

    We even have it spelled out for us and we still ride around it...
    Take the long cut, we'll get there eventually.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by TVC15
    Heck no! I just find it rude to get stuck riding behind someone futilely hanging on to a lead they can't keep. It messes with my mojo. And that's a problem.
    Good. We understand each other more than you may think. I am usually the guy who's stuck behind the slower rider! I like to descend so much that I ride DH as well. I enjoy the mojo flow that that provides. But I don't look for it at hall, because I know it will be interrupted.
    The second to last time I was at hall, my buddy and I were descending. It was during the week, hardly anyone there. We caught this other rider descending; he would not pull over, not let us pass, but he was going slower than we were. He wanted to be in front so bad he allmost ate it twice. We couldn't figure out what was going on in his head. Was he rude? Ignorant? Whatever. Rather than fight it, I avoid it if I can.
    ****

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Good. We understand each other more than you may think. I am usually the guy who's stuck behind the slower rider! I like to descend so much that I ride DH as well. I enjoy the mojo flow that that provides. But I don't look for it at hall, because I know it will be interrupted.
    The second to last time I was at hall, my buddy and I were descending. It was during the week, hardly anyone there. We caught this other rider descending; he would not pull over, not let us pass, but he was going slower than we were. He wanted to be in front so bad he allmost ate it twice. We couldn't figure out what was going on in his head. Was he rude? Ignorant? Whatever. Rather than fight it, I avoid it if I can.
    I so hear you, brother. Those guys, and girls, that just won't pull over know damn well what they're doing. Unfortunately, they don't realize (or care) how rude it is, or what asses they look like doing so. It ain't a race -- and if it were, they already lost it when the guy behind them caught their wheel. So, in trying to save face (for whatever silly reason they apparently feel compelled to withhold the yield), they lose more. And that whole mindset, that way of being, is just so "anti-mtb" to me. Fortunately the sport, in time, usually weeds out those kind of aholes.

    Some Zen rules of mountain biking .... It's a humbling sport; embrace it. Someone's always tougher, faster, or better than you -- always. Usually your first clue that you're about to get your ass kicked is when you underestimate another rider's ability. If you think you're good on a bike, the chances are you suck; so much that that you have no freaking idea what good looks like. And if you're a petty rider, I guarantee that you suck. Badly.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by s1ngletrack
    We're going to have to hook up for a ride when I make it out there this spring - I'm supposed to visit the step sister in Fruita before too long.
    No way, I don't ride with 16 year old copycats.




    Drop me a line anytime yer coming out here. Likewise I'll be out that way in a few weeks to pick up my brand-spankin' new Subie engine.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibmkidIII
    riding his bike on the CU campus like an urban outlaw.
    Half cherokee and choctaw...

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by singletrack
    No way, I don't ride with 16 year old copycats.




    Drop me a line anytime yer coming out here. Likewise I'll be out that way in a few weeks to pick up my brand-spankin' new Subie engine.
    Cool - let us know when you're out and we'll organize a Palmer ride or something along those lines.

    Oh - I'm 32 in ferret years, so all should be good.

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