Hall notes...

[DSR]

- Nelson loop is good now (Fri) although pretty rough, mostly from horses. Ignazjr - Shoy you an email
- Man, the brake stutter bumps are getting bad in some spots. I was on the rigid SS and one section knocked my left hand right off the grip. I was managed to stay up with my right and recover, but that's one of the scariest feelings!
- Always amazed at the folks that couldn't be bothered to return a hi, especially when they're just stopped on the side of the trail!

S

[scrublover]

was up there yesterday; yeah, great shape.

on my rigid too. the techy stuff on the stem is great on it. those stutter bumps on some of the longer sections of the loop? ugh. thought my teeth were gonna' fall out.

[DSR]

Exactly. I actually shot off trail for 5 yards or so up there because I simply couldn't see straight from being so bounced around! Fun fun fun though. S

[miSSfit]

I was wondering how many miles of trails there are at Hall? I live in Golden and want to check it out, as long as its at least a 2 hr loop, so its worth the drive. How dry is it?
I connected south table mtn., green mtn. and the hogback-red rocks loop today, which was awsome. With the good weather apex and lookout mtn. should be pretty dry by monday. I want to connect them all soon. If anyone is interested in good 50 mile ride, let me know.
Bill

[headhunter]

[QUOTE=DSR
- Always amazed at the folks that couldn't be bothered to return a hi, especially when they're just stopped on the side of the trail!

S[/QUOTE]

Why is that? I was up there this afternoon and had the same experience. Don't people know what endorphins are!

[DSR]

If you do the out and back plus Nelson loop and then down and up Antelope (about a mile each way), you're probably talking 13 or 14 miles if my memory is correct. Antelope may still be pretty messy though, so around 12 ride-able miles. The good thing though is that the rock garden section is fun to play around in, especially if you're new to the trail. Not a lot of miles, but at least a lot of fun packed in. And you can always just ride it twice! When things are drier, you can also hit Heil (mediocre) or Lion's Gulch or some of the stuff up off the Peak to Peak. Ignazjr is putting together a list of local rides at his Bike Lyons site (see the link above). S

[DSR]

I post this complaint every couple months. Don't know why some folks are so darn unfriendly. Especially on a beautiful Fri afternoon on the trail. Now there are plenty of friendly folks as well, several of whom I talked to today. But I can't get over people who can't return a simple hi. I was up there on Tues afternoon and passed (going opposite directions) some serious-looking guy, said hi and got nothing in return. I caught up with him on the downhill and said hi again, he gave me a wierd hardass look and then jumped on my wheel. Any normal somewhat outgoing person I would've rideen with and talked to, but I dropped this guy so hard. I've got no time for people like that. Another great example is pulling over on a downhill to let someone climb up by you and then get no "hey" or "thanks" or nod or anything. Anyway, most people are nice but I'll always get ticked off by the hardasses. Someone will probably tell me I'm too sensitive and they're probably right. Anyway, sorry for the tangent. Happy trails. S

[sumguy1]

I post this complaint every couple months. Don't know why some folks are so darn unfriendly. Especially on a beautiful Fri afternoon on the trail. Now there are plenty of friendly folks as well, several of whom I talked to today. But I can't get over people who can't return a simple hi. I was up there on Tues afternoon and passed (going opposite directions) some serious-looking guy, said hi and got nothing in return. I caught up with him on the downhill and said hi again, he gave me a wierd hardass look and then jumped on my wheel. Any normal somewhat outgoing person I would've rideen with and talked to, but I dropped this guy so hard. I've got no time for people like that. Another great example is pulling over on a downhill to let someone climb up by you and then get no "hey" or "thanks" or nod or anything. Anyway, most people are nice but I'll always get ticked off by the hardasses. Someone will probably tell me I'm too sensitive and they're probably right. Anyway, sorry for the tangent. Happy trails. S

You're in Boulder. Everyone but you ( apparently) is a Pro or SemiPro. Didn't you know that?

[DSR]

Oh yeah, forgot. And those guys ain't nice. Maybe I should finally start racing and then I could pester them with pleasantries on the course! S

[ignazjr]

Had to toss in my own two cents into the kitty...

First of all - I agree. More folks should give a nod or say "hey." Plenty don't. It bugs me, too, but I think it's pretty darn unfair to stereotype that user into a particular category.

I've raced for many moons and found that, generally, the tougher class you're racing in, the more "professional" the racers act. It's been my experience that the lower race classes are full of the type of open space racerboys that zoom by at speed, seemingly not in the greatest control. They guys that are "pros" at the local open space. On the other hand, Pro and Semi Pro racers are generally more experienced, and more courteous. The smart racers realize that they are spokespeople for the companies they represent. Acting like a d*ck will get them nowhere with sponsors - word spreads pretty quick.

Anyway, DSR's comments are not too far off the mark for racing in the real Pro and Semi Pro categories, but the irony is, that's the way it already is. There's plenty of super cool folks racing at very high levels. If you'd like to ride with any, drop me a line and I'll see what I can arrange. I even know of one particular Semi Pro that's big on trail advocacy, saying "Hi," being friendly to all trail users, and having a good time


Anyway, it's not the "racers." It's just people. And some people are just not very friendly. I'll just keep smiling and waving at them.

[DSR]

Agreed. My response was mostly tongue in cheek. You see all kinds up there. Popular trail, rightfully so. I can't pick out the pro from semi-pro from bush league racers, but must say that a lot of the clowns I see are just rec riders who maybe are just self-conscious so try to pull off the hardass attitude. Either way, hopefully we can get most to turn the corner and start creating a more cohesive community. Got to in order to keep what we have and hopefully even pick up some new trails. But that's the topic of a whole other thread... Good night. (BTW, finally got broadband which is totally addictive, so I'm hitting mtbr constantly!) S

[sumguy1]

Had to toss in my own two cents into the kitty...

First of all - I agree. More folks should give a nod or say "hey." Plenty don't. It bugs me, too, but I think it's pretty darn unfair to stereotype that user into a particular category.

I've raced for many moons and found that, generally, the tougher class you're racing in, the more "professional" the racers act. It's been my experience that the lower race classes are full of the type of open space racerboys that zoom by at speed, seemingly not in the greatest control. They guys that are "pros" at the local open space. On the other hand, Pro and Semi Pro racers are generally more experienced, and more courteous. The smart racers realize that they are spokespeople for the companies they represent. Acting like a d*ck will get them nowhere with sponsors - word spreads pretty quick.

Anyway, DSR's comments are not too far off the mark for racing in the real Pro and Semi Pro categories, but the irony is, that's the way it already is. There's plenty of super cool folks racing at very high levels. If you'd like to ride with any, drop me a line and I'll see what I can arrange. I even know of one particular Semi Pro that's big on trail advocacy, saying "Hi," being friendly to all trail users, and having a good time


Anyway, it's not the "racers." It's just people. And some people are just not very friendly. I'll just keep smiling and waving at them.

Ok.
I'll try again; ;-)

You're in Boulder. Everyone but you ( apparently) is a "Pro" or "SemiPro." Didn't you know that?

Is that better? I added quotation marks.

Irony. Ironic.
An attempt to be amusing or provocative by saying usually the opposite of what is meant <made the ironic observation that the government could always be trusted>

See, I said they was racers but I meant they wasn't. Did I suggest they was acting like racers? Ummm. Maybe a little. Not the real kind, though - the make believe kind that you run into on the trails around Boulder. You know, the guys with HRMs and the "grimace of ultimate conviction"™
There are some real racers like that too. But they tend to not say hi because they is going by so fast the sound never really gets to you all dopplered out and like. They know that and so don't bother.

Ahh, shucks. You got what I was getting at in the first place. You just didn't laugh so I had to go on like this here. I'm sorry.

[ignazjr]

Ok.
I'll try again; ;-)

Irony. Ironic.
Ahh, shucks. You got what I was getting at in the first place. You just didn't laugh so I had to go on like this here. I'm sorry.

It's cool. I got it. Seams that there are plenty of people that don't, though. Thought I'd elaborate, but I may have been a little over the top.

[bykhed]

and actually ran into Dbaser aka Brian, who called out to me on the trail, "Do you post on MTBR?" (We've never met before) - we had a quick chat. He'd probably be posting here right now, but he was heading out to NYC this morning. Too bad we didn't see you guys (not that I'd recognize you) - we could have had a group hug ;-)

Seriously, though, I've been mountain biking SO long I remember when the few folks you'd see on the trail would stop and chat, just because you were all members of that strange group that rode bikes out in the woods. I made several great friends that way, some of whom I rode and raced with for years. Then came what I call the "roadie influence" (I know it's a generalization, but as with many generalizations has a lot of truth to it). People with shaved legs, HR monitors, loud jerseys (mtbr's back then wore t-shirts, if you can believe it), and a "racer" attitude. In the early 90s I stopped racing because of these tools - it just wasn't fun anymore. I worked in NYC at the time and had plenty of pushing and shoving during the week, thank you very much.

Disclaimer: I have several good friends who race and ride rode bikes who do not fit the above description. But you know what I mean.

<getting off soapbox>

"Why can't we all just get along?" - Rodney King

[bykhed]

my original title to that message was "I was there yesterday too" - it makes sense that way

[SDizzle]

It's true--we've achieved a near cult like status with MTBR, especially in the area. It's been my best jumping off point in most discussions. ...So much so, in fact, that I fear if we would lose this website I'd go into a three-week withdrawl bender, and have to be dragged out by thorazine and methadone cocktails....

Ho ho. I wear baggy shorts (most days), t-shirts (most days), and shave my legs. My heart rate monitor is an awful distraction, and hasn't come out of its drawer in at least a year. Not only that, I try to say hello to everyone on the trail, and seem to get a bag of responses as mixed as yours. Somedays are great, and everyone says "hello, how goes it?" etc, and on others everyone's as*hole is cleft, and you wouldn't get so much as a grunt if you hit them! Roadies in the area seem to be getting worse about returning waves, too. I wonder if its our current state of administrational affairs?

Ahg, who knows? Just keep waving, and someone will eventually wave back. (Hey--it works for the queen!)

[Debaser]

my original title to that message was "I was there yesterday too" - it makes sense that way

first: Matt, i sure hope you're serious about those beers we were talking about yesterday evening. yum. Group hug over beers next week.

second: hall's ripping right now. There are very few wet spots, so if you don't know ride through them! Don't widen the trail... I had to make mention of this to a guy I said hello to who told me the trail was in good shape but you've got to go around some wet spots. Why aren't the rules of the trail posted at the trailhead? Sheesh...

third: Speaking of saying hi, on my way up, I was blasting the little downhill right after the bench, you know, the one with the braking bumps and rocks and usually wet switchback? So I'm riding pretty fast (but well within my control) and I hear some folks below me talking loudly. I slow out of the switchback and theres a couple ladies on horses coming up. There're smiling. I pulled to the edge of the trail, and we chatted as they came up and passed me. Super friendly, told me it looked like i was having fun and asked me how i can go so fast. I laughed and told them "that was slow, ladies!" more laughter. I really hope those ladies think positively about us riders up there becuase I went out of my way to be friendly and I gave them room to pass. I had a nice experience saying hi to a couple hikers also. And cyclists (hello again Matt). I know it's frustrating to feel that friendliness isn't recipricated, but we can't stop, because we're the minority out there and we're first on the chopping block when people get irritated with us.

Lastly, have good rides this weekend! I'm jealous of the nice weather and dry trails I'm missing. Woop it up, be friendly, have fun!

Debaser.

[sumguy1]

I almost never say Hi because I have been told I am inappropriatly loud - spooking horses loud. I almost never wave because if I let go of my super twitchy XC bike I am likely to endo.

I just smile at people now. Maybe a shoulder shrug thrown in if some one asks "Hows it?"

So if you see a smiling, shrugging guy , you'll know its me.

[SDizzle]

My horses don't scare too easily. You can worry about getting overly loud over beers after the ride.

[DSR]

Good stuff. Agreed on being friendly to all - horsies and hikers obviously included. I've found them to generally be pretty friendly and chatty. Although I still haven't figured out the best way to approach hikers from behind. I usually just slow way down to like walking speed and then say "excuse me" and "thanks, have a good hike" but even that sometimes seems to startle people somehow, sometimes.

Anyway, I know some of you, but if you see a guy on a black Surly or grey Ventana, give a shout out!

S

[ignazjr]

Good stuff. Agreed on being friendly to all - horsies and hikers obviously included. I've found them to generally be pretty friendly and chatty. Although I still haven't figured out the best way to approach hikers from behind. I usually just slow way down to like walking speed and then say "excuse me" and "thanks, have a good hike" but even that sometimes seems to startle people somehow, sometimes.

Anyway, I know some of you, but if you see a guy on a black Surly or grey Ventana, give a shout out!

S

Or a guy on a grey Tracer. I may be up at Hall sometime today if I'm lucky enough to get out.

If I see hikers in front of me, I shout out a hearty "Howdy" or "Hello" when I'm still a ways back. I think that comes across a little more friendly than "on your left." If I encounter an especially grumpy hiker, I make sure to also ask how they're doing, then say something like, "Beautiful day to be out, eh?" For some reason, that seems to irritate them all the more. Oh, the irony.

[sumguy1]

Or a guy on a grey Tracer. I may be up at Hall sometime today if I'm lucky enough to get out.

If I see hikers in front of me, I shout out a hearty "Howdy" or "Hello" when I'm still a ways back. I think that comes across a little more friendly than "on your left." If I encounter an especially grumpy hiker, I make sure to also ask how they're doing, then say something like, "Beautiful day to be out, eh?" For some reason, that seems to irritate them all the more. Oh, the irony.

I always ask the grumpy ones, "Wheres your bike? "

[scrublover]

i'll be up there tomorrow (sunday) around 2pm..... gonna ride out on the road on the crossbike, and go up antelope. hit the loop a time or two, then head down the stem past the bench. should be interesting on that bike. anyone want to join and see the carnage?

[SDizzle]

Probably. Have to write a bit on Coetzee, say four or five pages...probably not more than three hour's work. Should be ready to roll by two-ish. I'd also like to ride Antelope, as I've gotten to like going out for faster more training-oriented rides of late.

I ran into ETR and GF at Heil today, and he seems to be on the mend. Hopefully he'll be rolling soon!

[ignazjr]

i'll be up there tomorrow (sunday) around 2pm..... gonna ride out on the road on the crossbike, and go up antelope. hit the loop a time or two, then head down the stem past the bench. should be interesting on that bike. anyone want to join and see the carnage?

I'd join you on my cross bike, but I won't be able to make it out until late tomorrow. On a cross bike, Hall is all pretty doable, albeit very rough down from the bench on Bitterbrush. Even that is 99% rideable - maybe hike it thru the big drop and one or two other sections, but hey - that's what cross bikes are for! Make sure to bring extra tubes and run high pressure. I've pinch flatted my cross bike at Hall more times than I care to admit! It's easy to get that flow and mindset as if you're back on your mountain bike...

Have fun!

[scrublover]

yeah, i've done antelope and hte loop on it. but always gone down the loop. i think i'll take it down the stem tomorrow though, just to see..... i don't think i'd enjoy going up it on it-SS crosscheck. i mostly just want the cardiac part of it. and to see if i can get down bitterbush without stacking too terribly.

[DSR]

I just got my new (used) cross bike set up (hopefully) yesterday and am looking to get it out. Was thinking of riding up to either Heil or Hall from my place in north Boulder early to mid-afternoonish. Unless a buddy of mine wants to head out on the mtb in which case we'd probably just do the standard Hall run. Anyway, you thinking 2pm start from the bottom of Antelope - approximate? I'll try to shoot for the same and will keep an eye out for a Crosscheck. I'm pretty comfortable through the rock garden on the rigid but that's with risers and a 2.4 front tire! Don't know about skinny's in the hoods! I'll probably chicken out and walk. Anyway, hope to see you up there. S

[SDizzle]

OK. I should make it, too. I've discovered that I ride a thousand times better if I'm actually aerobic when I really get on the trail, so I'll be riding from the south/Bitterbrush parking lot, around the hill, and up the hill to the Antelope pking lot. I'll leave my house at 12:45, leave the pking lot at 1:30, and should be waiting for ya'll at the Antelope trailhead by 2:00. I'm going to ride the full stem and the lollipop, and come back throught he rock garden, and I'll be on my mtb--my road bike is really a road bike, and I think a cross bike would be a very dangerous thing for me!

[rapwithtom]

Guys -

In your gonzo-ness you may have forgotten what it is like to be merely human.

Sometimes I don't reply when people say "hi"...the reason is not because I am not friendly, but because I am near death and I don't have a single Oxygen molecule to waste!


When this happens, don't be upset, just pity me!

Tom

PS - I thought I knew Hall well...ie popsicle shape...what is this "Antelope" trail?

[SDizzle]

First of all, everyone needs a little Gonzo.

Second, Antelope comes out of the 'popsicle stick' (after you pass the bench, just down the hill) and goes north into Apple Valley. It's entirely north facing, and doesn't get any winter sun, so it's rarely dry this time of year. It's new; I think they put it in two seasons ago (?).

[ignazjr]

First of all, everyone needs a little Gonzo.

Second, Antelope comes out of the 'popsicle stick' (after you pass the bench, just down the hill) and goes north into Apple Valley. It's entirely north facing, and doesn't get any winter sun, so it's rarely dry this time of year. It's new; I think they put it in two seasons ago (?).

Antelope started as an old jeep road into the Hall's ranch. It was on BLM land. Just a couple of years ago, BLM and Boulder County worked out a land swap. One condition was that it had to be open to the public for multi use. Go BLM!

Anyway, due to neighborhood concerns, the trailhead only has 8 spots, no toilets, and no horseparking. The trail was completed by October '02 and it officially "opened" last June. Speaking of erosion and widening of trail for whatever reason, several locals had been riding the trail since construction was started (with permission). It's amazing now to see just how much it's already changed, even though it's only been open for less than a year. last April/May, it was awesome. Only about 18" wide in most places with foot high green grass on the sides. Nice. It's a good trail. Pretty even grade, not technical, lots of switchbacks. There is one very poorly built/designed section that is very blind in both directions, though. All in all, it's a fun addition to the Hall system.