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  1. #1
    My leg feels funny
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    FW: Jeffco Open Space Flood Damage Informational Meeting

    This was sent to me via email, just passing it along:

    As we continue to recover from the flooding this September, we want to keep you aware of the progress being made, and the plans for the future.



    Jeffco Open Space will be holding an information meeting on Tuesday, November 19th, from 6-8pm, at the American Mountaineering Center, 710 10th Street, Golden, CO 80401, in the conference rooms.



    We will provide a briefing on flood damage including the Apex Park closure, White Ranch Park trail closures and conditions, and North Table Mountain Park trail closures and conditions. The presentation will include our plan and project strategy, as well as involvement with the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). Following the presentation, staff experts will be available for one-on-one questions regarding trails and repair work occurring in the three parks. Information on individual and group flood recovery involvement will also be presented.



    Apex Park suffered the most extensive flood damage and will require a thorough recovery plan. The historic Apex Trail, the main artery for park, has gullies up to 8 feet wide, mounds of boulders, and long stretches where all the soil has been washed away. The Jeffco Open Space Trails Team has assessed all 8.2 trail miles in the 697-acre park and identified hazards and problem areas throughout the trail system. The work to reopen the entire park will be comprehensive and is estimated to extend into 2014. View photos of the flood damage at Apex Park

    We welcome your questions and hope to see you on November 19.

  2. #2
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    You can also 'like' their Facebook page and get these updates as well.
    2013 Trek Marlin 29er stock (blue)
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  3. #3
    My leg feels funny
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    Quote Originally Posted by pearl-drum-man View Post
    You can also 'like' their Facebook page and get these updates as well.
    I am happily Facebookless

  4. #4
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    Regardless of the official JCOS line only Apex Gulch suffered extensive damage from the storm. Upon hiking the park after the deluge and before the closure I observed that, for example, Argo is in good shape. It is ride-able and certainly hike-able. This is a neighborhood park and every effort should be made to open it if even only for hiking. It is totally unacceptable to slam it shut just for the convenience of JCOS.

    Where heavy machinery is being used local closure can be used as needed.

    Blanket closure is irresponsible.

  5. #5
    GL1
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    FW: Jeffco Open Space Flood Damage Informational Meeting

    Agree. I don't believe blanket closure is acceptable either and I was glad to see White Ranch lower lot reopen and I respect the other necessary closures in place there (Mustang etc.) But these are public lands so again I don't think long-term blanket closure is acceptable when we all know over 80% of the total trail miles are good to go.

    Also, I don't think the JCOS website has communicated timelines or detailed rebuilding plans very well at all. I sent an email to JCOS concerning this aspect as well.

    As a side comment...maybe they'll spend the money to fix the trails instead of the IMHO rather unnecessary and very expensive bathroom/parking lot project.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by GL1 View Post
    As a side comment...maybe they'll spend the money to fix the trails instead of the IMHO rather unnecessary and very expensive bathroom/parking lot project.
    I don't know first hand, but would guess the construction companies doing the parking lot and bathroom projects have signed contracts.
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  7. #7
    kgm
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    Or have volunteers rebuild the trails like every other place on earth. Ready& willing. Missing Apex hard these days..

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenGeezer View Post
    Regardless of the official JCOS line only Apex Gulch suffered extensive damage from the storm. Upon hiking the park after the deluge and before the closure I observed that, for example, Argo is in good shape. It is ride-able and certainly hike-able. This is a neighborhood park and every effort should be made to open it if even only for hiking. It is totally unacceptable to slam it shut just for the convenience of JCOS.

    Where heavy machinery is being used local closure can be used as needed.

    Blanket closure is irresponsible.
    I have been advised that the the correct legalese is "the blanket closure is
    Arbitrary and Capricious"

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenGeezer View Post
    I have been advised that the the correct legalese is "the blanket closure is Arbitrary and Capricious"
    Whatever happened to "Ride at your Own Risk" ?

  10. #10
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    You tough old farts had better be ready to dig, tear, and move rocks.

    I'm just not into another Apex meeting where everyone wants it their way. This isn't Burger King. You don't get it your way.

    We all work together.
    99% of the problems and questions posted here would be answered if people actually walked into a bicycle shop and asked

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    Quote Originally Posted by 69erEverything View Post
    You tough old farts had better be ready to dig, tear, and move rocks.

    I'm just not into another Apex meeting where everyone wants it their way. This isn't Burger King. You don't get it your way.

    We all work together.
    What is "your way" slam it shut for a year? You're right this ain't Burger King, this is my neighborhood park. BTW I've volunteered numerous times building trail...as I'm sure you have too. I could have been up there this week rolling rocks but, no, it's slammed shut.

  12. #12
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    Whine about it one the internet, or grab a shovel, pick-axe, pry bar, and McLeod and get digging (exercise some civil disobedience).

    Some of you want your cake and to eat it, too.

    As for Apex being, "my neighborhood park," it's not. Apex is JCOS park. A neighborhood park is something like Heritage Dell Park or Eagle Ridge Park--surrounded by neighborhoods.

    The decision to close the park is more complicated than anyone here knows. Just be glad they're going to reopen it at all. Until then, pedal down the road and ride MW, DR, and GM; or up the road to CG, NTM, or WR. It's <9 miles of closed trail, for a year (maybe less).

    For those going to the meeting: listen to what is said without the filters of preconceived notions and entitlements. This is hardly the abuse of governmental authority that some are implying.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogbie View Post
    For those going to the meeting: listen to what is said without the filters of preconceived notions and entitlements. This is hardly the abuse of governmental authority that some are implying.
    This no place for that kind of reasoned and civil discussion.. do you think you are in the real world or something?

  14. #14
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    Peace bro and let's work in unison to get this onerous closure rescinded asap...and the park is not an entitlement, I paid taxes for it. As for grabbing a shovel, etc. ..it's slammed shut, I can't go up there.

    And it is in my neighborhood so it's a neighborhood park. If a city park were slammed shut it in the same arbitrary and capricious way it would just as a egregious. I want to hear on the 19th a damn good explanation why Argo, Pick N' Sledge, Grubstake, Bonanza are closed when there is minimal damage, if any.
    Last edited by GoldenGeezer; 11-15-2013 at 11:22 AM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogbie View Post
    For those going to the meeting: listen to what is said without the filters of preconceived notions and entitlements. This is hardly the abuse of governmental authority that some are implying.
    Ridiculous. Drinking kool-aid is what has gotten this country into the mess it's in.

  16. #16
    zrm
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleTrail View Post
    Ridiculous. Drinking kool-aid is what has gotten this country into the mess it's in.
    It's the damn Marxists. They're everywhere.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by zrm View Post
    It's the damn Marxists. They're everywhere.
    You need a drink man!Name:  kool aid.jpg
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  18. #18
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    From the pictures it is obvious that the main connector trail is severely damaged. It's probable unstable slopes exist above and below trails that may appear undamaged.

    All I'm saying is, temper your emotions and opinions when you go to this meeting. Otherwise you might miss the point entirely. How you present yourself reflects on the community you represent.

    As I stated before, there are many other places to ride while Apex is closed. Have patience and offer help when it is requested.

    Have you read this: Apex Park Requires Rebuilding?

    "'All the trails are interconnected and likely lead to hazard areas,' [Communications Manager Thea] Rock said. 'There’s also the potential of rockslides and rockfall.'"

    That all sounds fairly reasonable to me; neither capricious nor arbitrary.

    Further, "Twenty-six of 28 Open Space Parks are open for public enjoyment." With only, Apex and Lair o' the Bear closed. That means, ~93% of JCOS Parks are open. Pretty good considering the potential amount of damage across the entire park system.

    With the coming freeze/thaw cycles more rockfalls will occur and the potential for slope movement remains high. That's basic surficial geology: high relief + unconsolidated material + H2O + gravity = downslope movement, a serious potential hazard.

  19. #19
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    The only trail with significant damage is Apex Gulch and perhaps Enchanted Forest. Argo, Pick 'N Sledge, Grubstake, and Bonanza were untouched. A loop can be made on those without traveling the Gulch or EF. So it's false to say all trails are interconnected.

    As far a rockfall hazard goes then why is White Ranch open? It's certainly as rugged as Apex and with a similar geology.

    I suspect that it was just easier to slam it shut especially when the high importance parking lot project is ongoing. The public be damned.

  20. #20
    kgm
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    How do we volunteer large amounts of time to rebuild? I am currently unemployed and offering up a solid 20 hours a week to rebuild a great trail.

    RIP Enchanted.

  21. #21
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    I am just happy to see that the other trails are opening up. I live in Heritage Square and used to ride Apex daily, but it isn't busting my balls to get a few more miles in to hit up White Ranch. Hell, even Chimney Gulch is comparable. I will remain patient for Apex and am thankful that there has been an effort to restore these parks. Also, with the above geological statement being true, it would really suck to see a rider or hiker down because they opened a trail that was "patched" without fixing any of the issues not visible to the eye (unsteady surfaces that cause rockslides).

  22. #22
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    You failed to read this: "All the trails are interconnected and likely lead to hazard areas." This means, even though some trails are undamaged, the lay out of the trails is such that they all connect to areas ("interconnected") that are damaged ("hazard areas").

    You're letting prejudices get in the way of seeing the problem. Because you perceive these trails as undamaged you think they're safe. However, you're not taking into account the broader scope. Yes, the closure sucks. But you must admit that the problems with the park are beyond your perception: you can't see the trees for the forest. Your belief that the park is safe despite professional recommendations that it is not clouds your judgement of the situation. Ultimately, if a person is injured because of poor park design or management the land manager is responsible--if not legally, ethically.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by kgm View Post
    How do we volunteer large amounts of time to rebuild? I am currently unemployed and offering up a solid 20 hours a week to rebuild a great trail.

    RIP Enchanted.
    Jeffco trail building volunteer opportunities.

    Though, "Volunteer projects are not on the immediate horizon for Apex Park."

  24. #24
    STRAVA!!!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by kgm View Post
    How do we volunteer large amounts of time to rebuild? I am currently unemployed and offering up a solid 20 hours a week to rebuild a great trail.

    RIP Enchanted.
    Just go fix the trail! Not like you will get a ticket and most people will be very thankful! U will be amazed what one person can get done in 20 hours.
    Well thats what I hear anyways......

  25. #25
    STRAVA!!!!!!
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    This is probably what would happen if you were shut down...
    "UMMMMM Sir! I going to have to ask you to stop. I appreciate your enthusiasm and all that, but you really need a permit before you do that up here....which you can purchase from us by the way.
    Any-whoo we have deemed that trail ""unsustainable"" so the Forest Service has promised to re route it for us...when they get a chance,haha. So Im going to have to ask you to leave please!!
    We will let you know when the park is open. Have a nice day!"

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