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  1. #1
    I dream on two wheels
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    Upset Front Range Horse Crap

    Is there anyway we can get some signs posted on the Frontrange trails telling everyone to pick up their pets dropping. Theres nothing like huffing and puffing up apex and having to breath in that horse crap smell deep into your lungs. And while I'm at it, some people need to grow a pair and ride UP the water bars and not around them. :End of rant:

    -Simon

  2. #2
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    Uh...I'm confused...

    ...you actually rode UP Apex? Isn't that illegal? I thought it was only for shuttles only?



    In my experience, signs do nothing, at least as far as some horse people (and some bikers and hikers for that matter) are concerned. Case in point: there's a sign at the Indian Creek trailhead that basically says "you must pick up after your horse," yet we spent the first 3 miles riding thru an equine minefield last summer.

    Somebody needs to invent a horse diaper. Then they need to have Open Space make it mandatory that all horses on public trails wear one. You know, like the state making auto insurance mandatory. First you create a reason for folks to give you money, then you legislate to force everybody into giving you money. You could make millions with the horse diapers, and OS could make thousands with the fines and no more horse crap on the trails. Everybody wins!

    Sorry, I'm in a weird mood today.

  3. #3
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    Nice, isn't it? I was up there tuesday and got blindsided by a big fat pile. Yum.

    Horses don't tend to be a 'multi-use' kind of activity IMO. If you don't fall off the trail to get out of their way, the riders will comment or give you a dirty look. They're like 1,000 lb schitzophrenic retards, but if they spook its OUR fault.

  4. #4
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    Most times I see horses the riders are pretty nice - often much nicer than the grumpy old hiker types. Maybe it's because I ride with my wife and they don't want to be rude to a girl????

    Anyway I think it's only common sense that horses be made to carry one of those sh!t bags under their tail on heavily trafficked trails. Sucking wind and horse poo are not a good combo. On the other hand when you’re bombing down a trail and you smell some freshies, you know to be on the look out – anyone remember that Police academy movie from the 80’s? You don’t want that to happen….
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  5. #5
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    What's really nasty is coming around a corner and finding a nice fresh pile right in the middle of the trail. There's no time to react, and you have to go through it. Then, you have horse stuff flying up off the front wheel into your face.
    [Insert witty signature here]

  6. #6
    I dream on two wheels
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve71
    Most times I see horses the riders are pretty nice - often much nicer than the grumpy old hiker types. Maybe it's because I ride with my wife and they don't want to be rude to a girl????
    Yeah, there are mostly nice people which makes it even harder to tell them to pick their sh!t up. And its even worse up in Crested Butte and areas like that. Is there anyway we can bring this up at one of the Jeffco Open Space meetings?

    -Simon

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolhandluchs
    ...you actually rode UP Apex? Isn't that illegal? I thought it was only for shuttles only?



    In my experience, signs do nothing, at least as far as some horse people (and some bikers and hikers for that matter) are concerned. Case in point: there's a sign at the Indian Creek trailhead that basically says "you must pick up after your horse," yet we spent the first 3 miles riding thru an equine minefield last summer.

    Somebody needs to invent a horse diaper. Then they need to have Open Space make it mandatory that all horses on public trails wear one. You know, like the state making auto insurance mandatory. First you create a reason for folks to give you money, then you legislate to force everybody into giving you money. You could make millions with the horse diapers, and OS could make thousands with the fines and no more horse crap on the trails. Everybody wins!

    Sorry, I'm in a weird mood today.
    Hey, how was the ride at Buffalo Creek this past weekend?

  8. #8
    lucky enough
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    deal with it

    I'm into horses as well as bikes. It's really out of the realm of experience to have a horse rider stop - get off- pick up the poop - remount - and ride on. Not nearly as easy as just bending over and picking up dog poop. Plus sometimes you're not aware your horse is pooping. I don't mind horse dung at all. Compare it to cow turds or dog crap - go ahead, inspect it. It's mostly incompletely digested grass and hay - fairly innocuous. Now cow and dog stuff - that's really nasty and foul smelling. True sh#$. I don't mind riding through horse leavings, but dog and cow - that's another matter!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freder
    I'm into horses as well as bikes. It's really out of the realm of experience to have a horse rider stop - get off- pick up the poop - remount - and ride on. Not nearly as easy as just bending over and picking up dog poop. Plus sometimes you're not aware your horse is pooping. I don't mind horse dung at all. Compare it to cow turds or dog crap - go ahead, inspect it. It's mostly incompletely digested grass and hay - fairly innocuous. Now cow and dog stuff - that's really nasty and foul smelling. True sh#$. I don't mind riding through horse leavings, but dog and cow - that's another matter!
    What about thoses bags that you put under the horses tail to catch the poo?
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  10. #10
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    Sure, dog crap is stinkier, but it also weighs less than five pounds. And horse sh!t may be mostly grass, but it still smells bad and isn't a real treat to have splattered on your bike and legs. Let's just be glad the world doesn't operate around what is 'convenient'.

  11. #11
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    one time i crashed and broke my clavicle due to horse crap on the trail...

  12. #12
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    I think a more logical approach would be to require Horse riders to carry a card to ride on public trails. You charge a fee for the card and the funds go towards a poop clean up crew. Horse owners typically have money so It should not be to big a deal other than that they have money to fight the legislation it would take to make them pay to poop.

    Funny how, "Leave no trace", eludes the horses.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simonns
    Hey, how was the ride at Buffalo Creek this past weekend?
    It's hard to have a bad ride at BC.
    We did about 18 miles on the CO trail, climbing a solid 4 miles back to the car at the Rolling creek TH. That last climb up from the campgrounds really killed my legs...of course, being stubborn and refusing to use my granny gear may have had something to do with that. Well, that and being grossly out of shape.

    I may have another weekend off in about 3 weeks, we'll have to ride Indian Creek, if it ever stops burning.

    Oh, and just to keep it relevant to this thread...we did ride thru some fresh horse stuff on the way back in BC.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freder
    I'm into horses as well as bikes. It's really out of the realm of experience to have a horse rider stop - get off- pick up the poop - remount - and ride on. Not nearly as easy as just bending over and picking up dog poop. Plus sometimes you're not aware your horse is pooping. I don't mind horse dung at all. Compare it to cow turds or dog crap - go ahead, inspect it. It's mostly incompletely digested grass and hay - fairly innocuous. Now cow and dog stuff - that's really nasty and foul smelling. True sh#$. I don't mind riding through horse leavings, but dog and cow - that's another matter!
    I don't have an answer for this problem but I have to ask about what is out of the realm of experience. That's just another way of saying that nobody does it. If you want to ride on a multi-use trail, you should be expected to do things that might be outside the realm of experience. My guess is that it wouldn't take much longer having to stop, get off, pick up the poo and remount as it would to be a cyclist that has to stop and wait for a group of horses to mosey on by.

    Let's call it like it is. It's inconvenient for you to do it so you don't.

  15. #15
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    Next time I ride I'm gonna leave a Duece right in the middle of the trail.



    The new infestation.

    Biker pooo

  16. #16
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  17. #17
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    Awesome......................

    LMAO

    C.

    Quote Originally Posted by moment
    Next time I ride I'm gonna leave a Duece right in the middle of the trail.



    The new infestation.

    Biker pooo

  18. #18
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    by that logic..............

    F,
    OK, let me try to explain in a similar, but different way.
    If I were to eat a banana, and throw the peel on the trail.
    Turn around and say that it's OK, because it is natural, and does not cause the problems that gel or clif bar wrappers do.
    Do you think I am practicing responsible 'leave no trace' trail ethics?
    The answer is obviously yours to decide, but I know how I would feel about it.

    C.


    Quote Originally Posted by Freder
    I'm into horses as well as bikes. It's really out of the realm of experience to have a horse rider stop - get off- pick up the poop - remount - and ride on. Not nearly as easy as just bending over and picking up dog poop. Plus sometimes you're not aware your horse is pooping. I don't mind horse dung at all. Compare it to cow turds or dog crap - go ahead, inspect it. It's mostly incompletely digested grass and hay - fairly innocuous. Now cow and dog stuff - that's really nasty and foul smelling. True sh#$. I don't mind riding through horse leavings, but dog and cow - that's another matter!

  19. #19
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    Did George Washington pick up horse poo? Did Stonewall Jackson? Did Geronimo? Did John Wayne? They would have thought it was peculiar to see someone stopping to clean up. Fast forward to today. We're so civilized. We've gotten away from the earth and living a basic existence. We can't deal with a little sh!t.
    I'd rather ride through horse poo than mud - I think it's easier to clean off. I suspect it will be difficult to enforce a "pick up the horse poo" law. Maybe I'm wrong. But things I can't control I don't let upset me. Well, except for stupid drivers.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freder
    Did George Washington pick up horse poo? Did Stonewall Jackson? Did Geronimo? Did John Wayne? They would have thought it was peculiar to see someone stopping to clean up. Fast forward to today. We're so civilized. We've gotten away from the earth and living a basic existence. We can't deal with a little sh!t.
    That is a little silly. George Washington, Stonewall Jackson, John Wayne etc. didn't ride crowded trails that were being shared with hikers and bikers.

    Back then horses were for transportation, not recreation.

    Anyway I still don’t know what's wrong with the bag under the tail?
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  21. #21
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    WOW, I have never thought of it that way..........

    F,
    GW, SJ, G, and JW................No, probably not.
    They also never took showers, and sh%t on the ground themselves.
    Probably even wiped their asses with the same hand they ate with.
    So what exactly was your point.

    It use to be OK to smoke IN the hospital too. Should you be able to light up in the Cancer ward??

    Things change.
    Freedom to do what you want, as long as it does not impact others. That is the litmus test.
    Horse sh%t on the trail is simply another form of littering.
    You are going to believe whatever you want, so no use in trying to change your mind.
    But arguing that 'fecal pollution' is 'American' is laughable at best.
    LAZY, yes. American.............c'mon.
    Do you really believe that??

    Oh, and BTW...............


    "JOHN WAYNE WAS A F#*%" 'repo man'

    C.





    Quote Originally Posted by Freder
    Did George Washington pick up horse poo? Did Stonewall Jackson? Did Geronimo? Did John Wayne? They would have thought it was peculiar to see someone stopping to clean up. Fast forward to today. We're so civilized. We've gotten away from the earth and living a basic existence. We can't deal with a little sh!t.
    I'd rather ride through horse poo than mud - I think it's easier to clean off. I suspect it will be difficult to enforce a "pick up the horse poo" law. Maybe I'm wrong. But things I can't control I don't let upset me. Well, except for stupid drivers.

  22. #22
    lucky enough
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    you got me

    Quote Originally Posted by mrsalty
    F,

    But arguing that 'fecal pollution' is 'American' is laughable at best.


    C.
    "laughable"? Yes you're right, I was trying to inject a little humor. Steve71 called my argument silly. And you're also right that things change. More and more people mean more contact and possible conflict.
    I was just saying that horse poo doesn't bother me - I can tolerate it. Sounds like some folks find it offensive.

  23. #23
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    OK, I don't really care for sharing trails with horses or their sh!t, but it is something we must do because the alternative seems to be biker exclusions.

    It seems to me you guys are being whiney little prima-donnas. After all it is just a little crap and like the horseman above stated, fairly innocuous.

    Is there really a trail in existance that requires horsemen to clean up after their beasts? I have never seen one. I think dog sh!t is much worse as most clowns feed their dogs horribly processed, cheap animal by-products. The horse crap is usually dried and gone within a day or two.

    I think that perhaps your energy would be better focused on a more important issue such as preserving our right to use these trails, rather than a couple of smelly, horse processed, grass/hay nuggets.


    ps: I ride where there are plenty of horses about and I have never even noticed the waste on the trails

  24. #24
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    content deleted as it could possibly offend someone some where some how some timeof focus.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by 29Colossus
    I wish I knew when and where you rode. I could go crap up and down the trail just to see how you like it when you are huffing up the vapor on a climb. What's the big deal? It's just a little excrement. It dries up in a few days anyway. It would probably just roll off the trail on it's own. Well, depending on how I was feeling anyway. I eat plenty of vegetables. I would just be like it was vegetable skin or something. I'm sure you could deal with it. It is nothing.

    Screw horse's crap on multi-use trails. It is just rude and arrogant by the horse owner. History and current rules don't matter a bit to me. CLEAN IT UP. They have the entire world of federal wilderness land to crap in. Go crap there.

    Horse's crapping all over multi-use trails is not the same as focusing on "trail rights" for bikers. Unrelated items of focus.

    No kidding, unrelated focus. My point exactly. Refocus on something that matters.

    And your crap is NOT the same as horse crap. Maybe I just ride fast enough that I don't notice the smell.

  26. #26
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  27. #27
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    I say get rid of those poser a$$ "Native" bumper stickers( how gay can you be) and replace it with something like "Horse$hit - the other dog$hit" and start a whole campaign with shirts and signs posted at trailheads. Totally rude and we as bikers should point it out to these inconsiderate ba$tards who want respect on the trails. It would be quite timely to throw it in someones face at a trail access meeting about impact and leave NO trace and how they should ban horses from multi use trails instead of begging to let us bad mountain bikers to get just a little piece of the pie!

  28. #28
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    White Ranch Piles

    It's also the flies that hatch out of that pile that are the real grossness.

    Also, it pisses me off that the private horse back riding operation at White Ranch is still running those horse rides up and down the trails for the fat, lazy, bloated Texans. They are destroying that trail. Private, for-profit outfitters should not be allowed at White Ranch.

  29. #29
    crash and burn at 45
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    are they on a permit at white ranch? They should be contributing to the maintenance of the stairs that are now wrecked. Missing boards on the nice wrap around next to the stairs is now trashed and in need of repair. I highly doubt a biker or a hiker did that (something someone said to me yesterday. There were 2 sets of horses that I came across yesterday. They were relatively polite people, but parts of lower Belcher are pretty thrashed now from horses and will require some work on trial days.

  30. #30
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    Be prepared to see some serious horsey doo doo on Indian Creek. There was a group of about 50 horses heading up from the campground this morning.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverstreak
    Be prepared to see some serious horsey doo doo on Indian Creek. There was a group of about 50 horses heading up from the campground this morning.
    The Indian Creek trail wouldn't exist as it is today without the help of equestrians. That trail system was built, in part, by equestrians on many, many trail days. I always expect the poo poo on that trail.

  32. #32
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    There was a group of about 40 horses on Mt. Lion Trail at GGCSP on Sunday. All very nice older guys out enjoying life. They were very polite and some even thanked us specifically for yielding the trail. They did however leave one hell of a mess in their wake and some of the smother sections of trail were torn up as if the tracks of a bulldozer had gone though. On the positive side I can say without reservation that the Nokian Gazzalodi 2.6 will hold a line though fresh horse sh!t.

    To be clear, I don't have a problem with horses on the trail and 95% of the time horse poo isn't an issue. I bet mountain bikes present an annoyance to other user groups at times so it’s important to be as tolerant as possible.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve71
    To be clear, I don't have a problem with horses on the trail and 95% of the time horse poo isn't an issue. I bet mountain bikes present an annoyance to other user groups at times so it’s important to be as tolerant as possible.
    I agree - most of the horse people I've encountered are polite and friendly. One time on White Ranch, however, I overheard one of the younger guys running the horse back riding tours make a threatening comment about confronting mountain bikers ahead on the trail but I guess that was just anecdotal.

    True that mountain bikes are intrusive to other people who don't ride them, but if everyone is considerate there will be few problems.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by 29Colossus
    Something that matters? Something that matters TO YOU. I will determine what matters to ME.

    Stop leaving excrement on multi-use trails. Arrogant, rude, and inconsiderate are words that come to mind. Just stop approving of being arrogant and rude and inconsiderate and clean up after your horse or dog or ass. It is that simple.
    Before you go bashing horse poo on the trail, you really should consider the future of mountain biking.

    Think about it, technology has been progressing in mountain bikes since their beginning. At the rate we are going, it is not entirely unlikely that your future bike will also "release unwanted and unnecessary waste" on the trail

    It could work something like this: In order to maximize energy, a bike could become capable of harnessing energy in times of excess energy. For example, when coasting down a gentle hill, and you do a couple of peddle revolutions for no reason whatsoever that do not take a part in putting the bike in motion, this motion could be harnessed inside the bicycle. When this "energy" is needed, just push a little button and you have 2 pedal revolutions of power at your disposal.

    However, the catch will be that the harnessed "energy" will only last for 30 minutes. So if you don't encounter a tough climb before that time, then the harnessed energy must be released onto the trail in a manner similar to "a horse pooping on the trail"

    And if you are someone who embraces technology and always rushes out to buy the latest and greatest, then you could very well be a future poopy-ass mountain biker.

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