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  1. #1
    Light freak
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    A few photos from this mornings FIFO ride

    Nothing to see here, sorry.


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    Last edited by scar; 04-21-2011 at 07:38 AM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by scar

    For the record - Did it CCW

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    Nice! I love riding WR at night and CCW is always fun!

  3. #3
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    .............
    Last edited by lidarman; 04-21-2011 at 07:41 PM.

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    EDIT: my bad, don't know why I assumed jeffco, disregard post:

    As per JeffCo open space rules ( http://jeffco.us/jeffco/openspace_up...gs_english.pdf ), the parks are open an hour before and an hour after sunset.

    According to the exif data on the pictures, they were taken no earlier than 5:35am which is 39 minutes before sunrise.

    Furthermore, because the parks are open an hour before/after sunrise/sunset, its acceptable/possible to ride in the dark.

    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    I hope the open space---or worse--the anti-mountain bike folks don't see those photos given it's closed during the dark. There are plenty of outspoken people who already claim bikers are rule breakers, they don't need more fodder.


    I'm all for riding trails at night, but I'm not all for POSTING photos of riding easily identifiable trails that are CLOSED at night---if you know what I mean.
    Last edited by alldownhill; 04-20-2011 at 02:42 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crit Rat
    Nice! I love riding WR at night and CCW is always fun!




    You meant dawn and dusk, right?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by alldownhill
    As per JeffCo open space rules ( http://jeffco.us/jeffco/openspace_up...gs_english.pdf ), the parks are open an hour before and an hour after sunset.

    According to the exif data on the pictures, they were taken no earlier than 5:35am which is 39 minutes before sunrise.

    Furthermore, because the parks are open an hour before/after sunrise/sunset, its acceptable/possible to ride in the dark.
    But that's not JeffCo.

  7. #7
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    How early was it?

    Nice FIFO ride. How early did you have to start to get those shots?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by schnauzers




    You meant dawn and dusk, right?

    Actually the only time I rode at night there was in '99. Was that the law then?



    Good thing the statue of limitations has run out on that one. Phew.

  9. #9
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    Hmmmm?

    I am very sorry for causing such a commotion over my pictures.

    lidarman - Who said anything about riding this at night, I didn't? FIFO = First In, First Out. This ride was a "before" work ride. To be very clear, we started our ride a little after 5a.m. at the Crescent Meadows lot. It was all downhill to the stairs where the pictures were taken.

    So this brings up a good point - What is the definition of sunrise? How about dawn or dusk? alldownhill notes that the pictures were taken at 5:35 a.m. and also states that this is 39 minutes before sunrise. Based on what? This trail sign (Boulder) said trails open sunrise to sunset. Jeffco states an hour before sunrise and an hour after sunset. I think I have seen dawn to dusk somewhere also.

    Here is link to a NOAA sunrise calculator - http://www.srrb.noaa.gov/highlights/...e/sunrise.html. I don't know if it is the default or DejaVu, but it came up as Boulder when I hit the link. It says the apparent sunrise this morning was 5:16 a.m. I use my PocketPC as my alarm clock. It shows 3 different options for sunrise - civil, nautical, and astronomical. Today it was Civil -5:47 a.m., Nautical - 5:13 a.m., and Astronomical - 4:38 a.m. I can go to a dozen different online sunrise calculators and get a dozen different answers.


    We have seen Jeffco Sheriffs Dept patrolling the lots many times in the mornings at the different Jeffco ride locations as we are getting ready to ride, they have never said anything to us.



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    do people (other than law enforcement, who, in this case, only care about revenue) really give a rats @ss what time of day the trail was ridden? if you do...there is a state next door full of people just like you called utah.

  11. #11
    Rolling
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    Great rides to all.
    Last edited by lidarman; 04-21-2011 at 07:47 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by getupgetdown
    do people (other than law enforcement, who, in this case, only care about revenue) really give a rats @ss what time of day the trail was ridden? if you do...there is a state next door full of people just like you called utah.
    Yes there are. They are people who want to see what's left of our trails remain open. I know that some organizations now think the Counties are a lost cause, but there are some people still working as volunteers (including myself) to make sure we don't lose access. Riding, hiking, or putting a horse on a trail when you are not supposed to is wrong.

    Did you know that Equestrians used to have a night ride at White Ranch? They lost that privilege. Guess why?

  13. #13
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    Update!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I canít believe I am posting this as I am really SCARED!!! I am typing this from a computer from a public library in an undisclosed location along the Front Range. I noticed I had some guys following me home last night after I had stopped by the local bike shop. The next thing you know they box me in with their van, two guys jump out and grab me from my car and throw me in the back of the van where two other guys grab me and blindfold me. They drove me to an abandoned warehouse where they proceeded to rough me up and pump me for information. These guys were professionals and werenít messing around! They mentioned something about be with the Secret Mountain Bike Police organization and had very thick Boulder accents. They said I am a disgrace for riding my bike and enjoying myself without the appropriate approvals from others before hand. They wanted to know the names of other people I have come in contact with that like to ride their bikes and enjoy themselves also. Donít worry, they tried to weaken me for hours but I did not give any of you up! They did however force me to take down the pictures. I also felt like I needed to so as to save the rest of you and your families. My nightmare finally ended after they mentioned something about needing to wrap things up so they could go get a Frappuccino.

    I got to get out of here, I think they are following me. The librarian just walked by me, smiled and said good morning!!!!! I am so paranoid right now.


    If you donít see me posting for awhile, donít worry, I am fine. I am going underground for my own safety. If anyone asks you if you know a guy named scar, PLEASE, tell them no.


    Oh yeah, almost forgot, hope everyone has a great day



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  14. #14
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    I'm starting to question why I visit this forum after reading threads like this.

  15. #15
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    Help!!!

    I really did delete these photos from my MTBR photo gallery but the pictures are still showing in the thread. What do I need to do? Does the MTBR server just need to refresh or something?

    I really don't want these guys coming back. I have a feeling I am going to have nightmares of those thick Boulder accents for years.




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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by scar
    I really did delete these photos from my MTBR photo gallery but the pictures are still showing in the thread. What do I need to do? Does the MTBR server just need to refresh or something?

    I really don't want these guys coming back. I have a feeling I am going to have nightmares of those thick Boulder accents for years.




    ***
    You can edit your original post and remove them. Don't let those Boulder goons win! Fight the power! (or just come down and ride somewhere more sensible).

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by kristian
    You can edit your original post and remove them. Don't let those Boulder goons win! Fight the power! (or just come down and ride somewhere more sensible).

    He'll be OK as long as he's not racing for the Yeti team.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drop the Seat
    I'm starting to question why I visit this forum after reading threads like this.
    no s--t

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drop the Seat
    I'm starting to question why I visit this forum after reading threads like this.
    no doubt.

  20. #20
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    The Front Range Forum is getting to be more and more like The Front Range Forum every day. Oh woe is us.

    And, oh yeah, who's the guy in the red shirt holding s skull?
    So it seems to me to be, this thing that I think I see.

  21. #21
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    The internetz is serious business!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Short Bus
    no doubt.
    Well, if you want serious discussion, you could always go over to f88me. They'll treat ya real fine.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drop the Seat
    I'm starting to question why I visit this forum after reading threads like this.
    Dont let the door hit ya....
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  24. #24
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    Lol Scar thanks for the great laugh and I am glad I got to see your pics before the Secret Service made you take them down.

    I agree MTBR is at an all time low in bickering and pettiness, and not just on the FR forum.

    If it wasn't for my friends on here I probably wouldn't even check it.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaydude
    Lol Scar thanks for the great laugh and I am glad I got to see your pics before the Secret Service made you take them down.

    I agree MTBR is at an all time low in bickering and pettiness, and not just on the FR forum.

    If it wasn't for my friends on here I probably wouldn't even check it.
    I don't think anyone was really bickering and certainly not being petty. I know I was polite in asking him to take them down, cited good reasons, and understood the confusion. I did this in a PM and I know that Scar is a good person. Heck, I even have two of his lights.

    Most people do not get to see what goes on within the land management, or they are unaware until it is too late. These things, however small you may think they are, have a tendency to blow up.

    This forum is certainly not what it used to be. Though many still lurk, a lot of people no longer post here. What do we need? More ride reports, pictures, videos, and the fun stuff. Yes, Scar was attempting that and he should be commended for it. His early morning stuff is always pretty cool, but we still have to keep within the boundaries. Unfortunately, what's cool in one place isn't cool in another.

    There are a lot more places to go and share your interests now. I am sure MTBR has felt the hit. Facebook, Twitter, personal blogs, and other forums are spreading the users pretty thin and have allowed us to actively manage who views information. MTBR is a public forum and we cannot control what is visible.

    Regardless, there are still 100 people viewing this at any given time and I know for a fact that the land management agencies actively read this forum. We need to build a trust with them. They do see this forum as a public gateway and educational medium. Educating on the proper use of the trail system will go a long way to eventually opening up other possibilities.

    Am I making any sense? If you want secret cool stuff, you'll have to send me an FB request. Just kidding.

    Here's a picture of a new trail location to brighten your day.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails A few photos from this mornings FIFO ride-img_0013.jpg  


  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by kristian
    Don't let those Boulder goons win! .
    Wow.. Kristian....the ugly truth hurts., I didn't know reason and rules equated to "Boulder Goons."

  27. #27
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    ....

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by schnauzers
    with them. They do see this forum as a public gateway and educational medium. Educating on the proper use of the trail system will go a long way to eventually opening up other possibilities.
    Can you point me to any post or thread started (or even participated in) by an open space or FS official? I've been on MTBR since Jesus was a DRO, obviously not here 24/7, but I've never witnessed it.
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    Can you point me to any post or thread started (or even participated in) by an open space or FS official? I've been on MTBR since Jesus was a DRO, obviously not here 24/7, but I've never witnessed it.
    What do I win?
    Bobcat Ridge Natural Area CLOSED

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    Can you point me to any post or thread started (or even participated in) by an open space or FS official? I've been on MTBR since Jesus was a DRO, obviously not here 24/7, but I've never witnessed it.

    They will not post. They are not allowed to. I know they read them, because I have had discussions with them about specific posts. There are a few mountain biking rangers and an FS guy or two that some of us have ridden with while they are off duty. Yes, they actually ride a bike and some do it very well. They like the sport, they are into the sport, and just like you and me, they are curious about what people think of the sport and the effect on everything around it. These same people read this and report about it to the others.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by schnauzers
    They will not post. They are not allowed to. I know they read them, because I have had discussions with them about specific posts. There are a few mountain biking rangers and an FS guy or two that some of us have ridden with while they are off duty. Yes, they actually ride a bike and some do it very well. They like the sport, they are into the sport, and just like you and me, they are curious about what people think of the sport and the effect on everything around it. These same people read this and report about it to the others.
    So are you saying that these rangers read this site and use the opinions of the few who post here, as a litmus test for and entire community of mountain bikers. Honestly, I don't really think most mountain bikers post on this forum. I'm not even sure if most bother to lerk. Maybe next time these specific posts are being discussed it should be pointed out that the opinions represented in these posts, which are probably negative since they are being discussed, do not represent the opinions of the mtn bike community. Typically, when the flame wars start, it is the same group of mtbr forum users, while the majority stay out of it.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebry74
    So are you saying that these rangers read this site and use the opinions of the few who post here, as a litmus test for and entire community of mountain bikers. Honestly, I don't really think most mountain bikers post on this forum. I'm not even sure if most bother to lerk. Maybe next time these specific posts are being discussed it should be pointed out that the opinions represented in these posts, which are probably negative since they are being discussed, do not represent the opinions of the mtn bike community. Typically, when the flame wars start, it is the same group of mtbr forum users, while the majority stay out of it.
    Bingo! Plus only the crazy people participate on internet forums!
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by schnauzers
    They will not post. They are not allowed to. I know they read them, because I have had discussions with them about specific posts. There are a few mountain biking rangers and an FS guy or two that some of us have ridden with while they are off duty. Yes, they actually ride a bike and some do it very well. They like the sport, they are into the sport, and just like you and me, they are curious about what people think of the sport and the effect on everything around it. These same people read this and report about it to the others.
    So they use this site for intel gathering but not for communicating to users or education or anything productive? Sweet!
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdub
    FCNA? Really? I thought that a cute handle for Phukkin A!
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebry74
    So are you saying that these rangers read this site and use the opinions of the few who post here, as a litmus test for and entire community of mountain bikers. Honestly, I don't really think most mountain bikers post on this forum. I'm not even sure if most bother to lerk. Maybe next time these specific posts are being discussed it should be pointed out that the opinions represented in these posts, which are probably negative since they are being discussed, do not represent the opinions of the mtn bike community. Typically, when the flame wars start, it is the same group of mtbr forum users, while the majority stay out of it.
    I guess I am not making my point clear.

    When you post photos of illegal activity you WILL draw the attention of those who need to enforce the rules. This WILL make it harder for everyone, whether they are on this board or not. The more enforcement and observation they need to do, the more "other" activity they will find and the more they will want to limit access. My opinion, but I know that is what I would do.

    Then again, why take my word for it? Call them and speak to them.

    True, most mountain bikers in this area have never even heard of MTBR and that is probably a good thing. However, if we can't police ourselves or explain why a certain action is not legal without getting called a "goon", then how in the world do you expect anyone to trust our group or give them more access?

    And I will be honest. My observations of what goes on on the trail pretty much mimics what goes on here. 75% do the right thing and 25% are total d-bags. I think it's the job of the 75% doing it right to convince the other 25% they need to get with the program. Until then, don't look for any sympathy from the land managers.

    As I said before, as a community we gave up on changing JeffCo and it looks like BoCo will go the same way. We were so charged about Apex, the decision came down, and we fizzled. We were going to do something about TUFT, and we fizzled. It's pretty sad to lose that kind of energy. But, breaking the rules is worse. It's like a ladder to the land managers. We can climb the ladder and be one rung from the top. If you do one thing wrong, you are starting back at the bottom. There is no half way point.

    Ok, I am done with my lecture for the day.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by schnauzers
    As I said before, as a community we gave up on changing JeffCo and it looks like BoCo will go the same way. We were so charged about Apex, the decision came down, and we fizzled. We were going to do something about TUFT, and we fizzled. It's pretty sad to lose that kind of energy. But, breaking the rules is worse. It's like a ladder to the land managers. We can climb the ladder and be one rung from the top. If you do one thing wrong, you are starting back at the bottom. There is no half way point.

    Ok, I am done with my lecture for the day.
    Because we're not pissed off enough and we're too complacent. JCOS knows this and the current group will continue to whittle away at MTB access because they consider us as the equivalent to the boiling frog parable. How else do you explain what happened at Apex or JCOS's comments regarding same? IMO, the best thing that could happen to Front Range MTB'ers is the threat of mass closures and restrictions -- it's the one thing that will get them off the couch and involved in the process of not begging for change, but demanding it. What we need is a MTB Critical Mass (but without the emo hipsters and *******s).
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  37. #37
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    more illegal activity caught on camera




    The two riders are technically on an uphill, though the photo doesn't show it, I used my iPhone app to calculate the slope angle. Those two guys should have yielded!!!!! Not the guy in the spandex.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    Because we're not pissed off enough and we're too complacent. JCOS knows this and the current group will continue to whittle away at MTB access because they consider us as the equivalent to the boiling frog parable. How else do you explain what happened at Apex or JCOS's comments regarding same? IMO, the best thing that could happen to Front Range MTB'ers is the threat of mass closures and restrictions -- it's the one thing that will get them off the couch and involved in the process of not begging for change, but demanding it. What we need is a MTB Critical Mass (but without the emo hipsters and *******s).
    I do not entirely disagree with you. But, who will lead it? Who has the Chutzpah?

  39. #39
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    This guy was riding off trail.


  40. #40
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    nevermind
    Old Codger

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    FCNA? Really? I thought that a cute handle for Phukkin A!
    Yep, that is the Fort Collins Nature Association or something along those lines. However, now I'll never see that name the same way again....

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    So they use this site for intel gathering but not for communicating to users or education or anything productive? Sweet!
    Again, we need to inform, communicate, and educate ourselves first. *sigh*

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drop the Seat
    This guy was riding off trail.

    Your point? Did a Ranger push him?

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by schnauzers
    I guess I am not making my point clear.

    When you post photos of illegal activity you WILL draw the attention of those who need to enforce the rules. This WILL make it harder for everyone, whether they are on this board or not. The more enforcement and observation they need to do, the more "other" activity they will find and the more they will want to limit access. My opinion, but I know that is what I would do.

    Then again, why take my word for it? Call them and speak to them.

    True, most mountain bikers in this area have never even heard of MTBR and that is probably a good thing. However, if we can't police ourselves or explain why a certain action is not legal without getting called a "goon", then how in the world do you expect anyone to trust our group or give them more access?

    And I will be honest. My observations of what goes on on the trail pretty much mimics what goes on here. 75% do the right thing and 25% are total d-bags. I think it's the job of the 75% doing it right to convince the other 25% they need to get with the program. Until then, don't look for any sympathy from the land managers.

    As I said before, as a community we gave up on changing JeffCo and it looks like BoCo will go the same way. We were so charged about Apex, the decision came down, and we fizzled. We were going to do something about TUFT, and we fizzled. It's pretty sad to lose that kind of energy. But, breaking the rules is worse. It's like a ladder to the land managers. We can climb the ladder and be one rung from the top. If you do one thing wrong, you are starting back at the bottom. There is no half way point.

    Ok, I am done with my lecture for the day.
    No, I'm pretty sure I understood what you were saying. I just think it's interesting that they monitor the site and discuss negative threads in regards to park managment. Sounds pretty lame to me. I supposed it is just human nature...but still lame. This is no attack on you though...I actually enjoy most of your posts...and respect your efforts to educate riders...but try not to take yourself to seriously.

    I say we start a new, secret forum to post our stoke and illegal activities, and keep this forum going as a ruse to fool the land managers.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by schnauzers
    I do not entirely disagree with you. But, who will lead it? Who has the Chutzpah?
    I guess were counting on our local MTB groups that we give money to and donate our backs and sweat to. Yah we build trails and have social rides and take kids mountain biking- that kind of stuff does not get enough recognition by the other user groups. Not to mention The kind of revenue that the cycling community brings into these counties and local businesses.

    Remember we got involved we showed up in numbers that pushed the max occupancy and were forced to wait out in the halls until the local orders were discussed and voted on. Then and only then were our issues brought up well into the night that most normal people are home with their families or having to get up and work. Then the board is tired and the crowd is tired. Decisions are made hastily and once again the mtb group is silenced and forced to use an alternating schedule. just so some folks in peaceful valley can watch birds from the EF trail . On "their own" trail that they connected themselves.
    (shakes bald head- how did my apex rant get into this thread)

    I am tired of almost feeling ashamed for being the mountain biker on the trails- waving - smiling and saying hi.

    Passing all the little $hitbags full of dog excrement that will somehow be picked up mysteriously through the night!


    I will just keep riding, smiling and showing up and make sure my voice is heard and continue my silly little t.i.t.s. rides now and then on jeffco trails and stay within our legal curfew times
    I'm a cowboy on a steel horse i ride!

    the blog

  46. #46
    Shinobi-Wan Kenobi Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drop the Seat
    This guy was riding off trail.

    Wow, you've found some blasts from the past! That was Raymond at the '01 Spring Fling, and the picture above is Tiggerider and Chet Peach sometime WAY WAY back. You're right though, the guy in spandex shouldn't have been yielding--he was obviously going up hill. He should have lowered his shoulder and body checked Chet to prove a point.

  47. #47
    Yappy little dog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBR me!
    I guess were counting on our local MTB groups that we give money to and donate our backs and sweat to.
    Don't count on it. Been there, tried that. They want to play nicey nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by PBR me!
    I am tired of almost feeling ashamed for being the mountain biker on the trails- waving - smiling and saying hi.
    Don't feel ashamed. You are doing the right thing. When you that, they get confused. It's always best to confuse them.

    [
    Quote Originally Posted by PBR me!
    Passing all the little $hitbags full of dog excrement that will somehow be picked up mysteriously through the night!
    That's a fine-able offense. If you catch them, call it in to JCOS.

  48. #48
    Rolling
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drop the Seat
    more illegal activity caught on camera




    .
    WOW, I think that is Troy (owner of OTE shop in Fruita and Tiggerrider (Kevin) in the photo. EDIT, exactly, Kristian Is the yielding person JD?.

    Here is an interesting rule in Boulder county open space. Bikes are to remain on trails but hikers can walk off trail all they want. So in Boulder, that yield is completely appropriate.

    Oh and btw, yielding is trail etiquette, not a local government rule. Although you are funny in the post, you have lost the point.
    Last edited by lidarman; 04-22-2011 at 07:47 PM.

  49. #49
    Rolling
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    On the comments about MTBR being small and nobody noticing, I'm actually surprised of how many bikers I meet on the trail lurk on MTBR. We might think this community is really small based on posts alone but as far as people lurking, it is surprisingly large.

    Using the perception that MTBR is small as an excuse to post inappropriate photos is just lame and a fallacy. I thought everyone has seen enough of Michael Vandeman to know that people against mountain biking will seek out things like people boasting about violating laws and ethics. Luckily, he is an extreme example. But there are people in Boulder who show up to the Council meetings who do a similar kind of research. They can influence decisions. And it's way easier for them when they have detrimental evidence--never make it easy for your enemy. $h_t, like water, flows downhill.


    And don't think you are immune wherever you are . There are similar folks who show up at Jeffco meetings showing how mountain bikers bomb down Apex or Belcher---or wherever.

  50. #50
    Yappy little dog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    EDIT, exactly, Kristian Is the yielding person JD?.

    .
    Looks like a ponytail to me. But, JD would never wear a real bike jersey.

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