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  1. #1
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    Falcon Trail access limitations on AFA

    I tried to get on the AFA a couple of days back and they are at "FPCON Bravo" - a heightened level of security. They did not allow me on base via the South Gate and told me that I needed to be with someone with a military ID to ride the Falcon Trail.

    I was told there is limited access from the North Entrance - but only to the Visitor Center and they are not allowing cars to park at the trailheads at all.

    One bike shop told a friend that they are letting folks on at the S entrance to ride - but when I called the visitors center they said that they are not...

    If anyone has any other/newer info. Please post ...

    Thanks,
    S
    "You know how they make aluminum bike frames? They take steel and suck out all the soul..."

  2. #2
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    FPCON Bravo is due to the Usama Bin Laden mission and end result. There are a series of increased force protection measures that come with each change in FPCON status. Unfortunately, tighter access control is one of them.
    Happiness depends more on the inward disposition of mind than on outward circumstances. Benjamin Franklin

  3. #3
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    Yup, I understand ...

    I just wanted to have a place for folks to post any additional info. Perhaps a change in the FPCON status...

    Perhaps someone rode the Santa Fe Trail and cut over and rode Falcon without any issues... just sayin' ;-)

    S
    "You know how they make aluminum bike frames? They take steel and suck out all the soul..."

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    I will try to update when the FPCON changes and folks are allowed back on.
    I did ask about the entry from santa fe trail onto the academy, I was told that if you are caught doing that, that you will be escorted off base property by el paso pd and might be charged. (they are doing random checks, I got stopped the other evening riding)

    If you have anyone with a military id card that is willing to ride with you, then the can ride in your car in with you and you are able to ride still. Just give it some time, It is a privileged not a right to ride there any other time. So lets respect the rules and wait till it opens back up.

    *NOT a official spokesman of USAFA just adding my .02*

  5. #5
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    And you can park at the trail heads... as long as you're on base legally, that is.

    Had a nice ride there yesterday; didn't see anyone else and didn't put two and two together!

    Maybe the FPCON B will keep the knuckleheads out while the trails recover a bit. I can't believe the skid marks I'm seeing this year! I don't know if it's a bunch of newbies, XC riders being idiots, the gravity crowd going too fast on XC trails or what, but it's really tearing up the trails at the corners.

  6. #6
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    The last thing COS mountain bikers need is riders trying to sneak onto the Falcon Trail. Just give it a few weeks and everything will be back to normal. Don't forget they are protecting college kids and our future leaders. We just have to be patient. Plus the trail does need some time to recover.

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    So you can only ride if you have a military id?

  8. #8
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    yes or a military person with you that will ride and vouch for you.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Village Idiot
    The last thing COS mountain bikers need is riders trying to sneak onto the Falcon Trail. Just give it a few weeks and everything will be back to normal. Don't forget they are protecting college kids and our future leaders. We just have to be patient. Plus the trail does need some time to recover.

    They're protecting them from mountain bikers?

    Ridiculous...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggs
    They're protecting them from mountain bikers?

    Ridiculous...
    NO! terrorist that may pose as mountain bikers to gain access to the base, I suppose most folks already know that.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis C
    NO! terrorist that may pose as mountain bikers to gain access to the base, I suppose most folks already know that.

    Again, ridiculous. Never going to happen.

    That would be like a drug dealer trying to sell crack in front of a police station.



    The gate guards search your car anyhow. Maybe they should search harder now if it will make them feel better.

  12. #12
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    Just thinking out loud

    But I would have to say WIGGS, your quite sheltered and out of touch, higher security levels affect every part of military institutions, limiting access is a primary first step.

    Do you really think mountain bikers are being targeted?

    Did 9/11 really happen or was a it Gov't plot.

    Funny

    Dam,
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggs
    They're protecting them from mountain bikers?

    Ridiculous...
    Your right it is kinda hard to hide bombs in your Lycra unless you shove 10lbs of c4 up your ass, which is clearly where your head is located at the present time with a thought process like this.

  14. #14
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    Thanks

    Hitchredneck - I appreciate you keeping us informed as to any changes on the FPCON status ... that is exactly why I set up this thread. I was hoping someone would step up and help out - Thanks again!

    It is funny how some folks would think that just mountain bikers are being blocked from the AFA ... It is a military installation and as such limiting access to military personnel and those with appropriate clearance during certain times is necessary.

    I fully understand and respect what's going on and while I just miss the Falcon Trail I'm happy to keep myself busy riding elsewhere and let the trail "rest". It is a privilege and not a right to be able to ride that trail and perhaps this may help others recognize that as well.

    Thanks again!

    S
    "You know how they make aluminum bike frames? They take steel and suck out all the soul..."

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck
    Your right it is kinda hard to hide bombs in your Lycra unless you shove 10lbs of c4 up your ass, which is clearly where your head is located at the present time with a thought process like this.

    Do you guys really think some terrorist is going to select the Air Force Academy as a target AND dress up as a mountain biker for a disguise?

    What, do you think they're planning to sneak in and ride downhill without yielding?

  16. #16
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    Your right

    Who would have thought a hard to hit target like the towers in NY filled with Civilians would have been life changing.

    A military institution, any military institution is a target, what greater way to strike fear into the hearts of AMERICANS than to attach the next generation.

    Wiggs, are you 18 and a Freshman in college, you sure don't think problems through very well.

    Dam,
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  17. #17
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    No Wiggs, but most didn't think they would hijack a bunch of planes and fly them into buildings either. Its simply making sure the place is somewhat secure from attack. In order to do that all users including cyclist have to be limited.


    Getting access to Falcon Trail is still pretty darned easy. We have several riding friends that have military Id and would be happy to host a group on the trail. Just sayin there are options out there if you look for them.

  18. #18
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    Take a deep breath Joe! And step down off that soapbox...
    Tact is for people not witty enough to be sarcastic...

  19. #19
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    Yup

    Taken

    Quote Originally Posted by kchri
    Take a deep breath Joe! And step down off that soapbox...

    Dam,
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  20. #20
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    Seriously Joe, take it easy. Just gear it down there turbo...

    I'll re-ask my question since you didn't answer it the first time. Do you really think someone fool would try attacking the Air Force Academy, a secure facility, with armed guards, and full of military people who would be on guard anyhow? Wouldn't it be a heck of a lot easier to blow up bus, train, stadium, etc?? Less work, more casualties, more news coverage.

    Who do you think we're fighting anyway, Z-Germans?

  21. #21
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    Simple Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggs
    .

    I'll re-ask my question since you didn't answer it the first time. Do you really think someone fool would try attacking the Air Force Academy,

    YES

    Dam,
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOEMTBR COLORADO
    YES

    About as likely as being attacked by a shark in Colorado...

  23. #23
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    Nice gettin to know ya

    Have a nice day

    Dam,
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  24. #24
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    You as well.

    Your one word answers are so clearly articulated and rationalized. I'm sure you're a hit at dinner parties and social engagements.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggs
    Seriously Joe, take it easy. Just gear it down there turbo...

    I'll re-ask my question since you didn't answer it the first time. Do you really think someone fool would try attacking the Air Force Academy, a secure facility, with armed guards, and full of military people who would be on guard anyhow? Wouldn't it be a heck of a lot easier to blow up bus, train, stadium, etc?? Less work, more casualties, more news coverage.

    Who do you think we're fighting anyway, Z-Germans?
    I guess you forgot this little incident?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Hood_shooting

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by CSURam_06
    I guess you forgot this little incident?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Hood_shooting

    Uhh, that guy was an Army Major, not a mountain biker...

  27. #27
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    Ahem......

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggs
    Seriously Joe, take it easy. Just gear it down there turbo...

    I'll re-ask my question since you didn't answer it the first time. Do you really think someone fool would try attacking the Air Force Academy, a secure facility, with armed guards, and full of military people who would be on guard anyhow? Wouldn't it be a heck of a lot easier to blow up bus, train, stadium, etc?? Less work, more casualties, more news coverage.

    Who do you think we're fighting anyway, Z-Germans?
    I do know that you were referring to mountain bikers specifically, do to your previous posts, but you have made my point for me. They weren't even able to trust one of their own, so why do you expect them to trust you? I understand it is a pain and an inconvenience to you, but they could care less about that. Does anyone really think that some mountain biker is going to show up with a car bomb, or even a bike framed packed with C4 to detonate? Probably not. But I also assume that they never expected a Major to attack them either. They are charged with the duty of protecting and serving our servicemen/women, who in turn also is protecting in a round about way, your rights to mountain bike there.

    One final point. No one thinks that we are fighting "Z-Germans", we are fighting a much more advanced enemy, who does not care or subject themselves to the normal rules of warfare, which makes them much, much more dangerous.

  28. #28
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    Yes and Yes. To Joe and Hitech.

    They shut down that base for recreational use for a while - the security forces there do not need bikes (driving in and riding in), horse trailers, runners/hikers, etc distracting them from keeping the base secure. Even if the likelihood of an attacker disguised as a rec user is small, they have to address it. And perhaps more importantly, if there are dozens of active rec users spread across Falcon, Ice Lakes, Stanley, unmarked hiking/horse trails (all over the base) - how can they begin to enforce an upgraded threat level like we are under right now. There are 100's on weekends out on those trails, not even counting the athletic fields and visitors areas. Whether you agree with it or not, good for them for doing everything in their power to keep it safe and for bounding the problem to something more manageable.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnordby
    Yes and Yes. To Joe and Hitech.

    They shut down that base for recreational use for a while - the security forces there do not need bikes (driving in and riding in), horse trailers, runners/hikers, etc distracting them from keeping the base secure. Even if the likelihood of an attacker disguised as a rec user is small, they have to address it. And perhaps more importantly, if there are dozens of active rec users spread across Falcon, Ice Lakes, Stanley, unmarked hiking/horse trails (all over the base) - how can they begin to enforce an upgraded threat level like we are under right now. There are 100's on weekends out on those trails, not even counting the athletic fields and visitors areas. Whether you agree with it or not, good for them for doing everything in their power to keep it safe and for bounding the problem to something more manageable.
    Well articulated! Thanks!

    Back on topic - to those who spend time on base and can keep us posted regarding any changes in FPCON status - it is greatly appreciated.

    Happy riding!
    S

    P.S. Remember folks: Please don't feed the trolls!
    I've found it best to ignore moronic and inane statements like those posted above.
    "You know how they make aluminum bike frames? They take steel and suck out all the soul..."

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by kchri
    Take a deep breath Joe! And step down off that soapbox...
    and turn off Fox news

    Seriously tho, I understand why the AFA has to do this, there are rules they have to follow. An actual attack on a military base tho?, not even in their best interest like Wiggs said, maybe another whack job like at Ft Hood but how's that the same as the 9/11 attacks??

    Not even in the same league as the Nazi's during WWII, who were a legitimate threat to our freedom. I've read some actually believe radical muslims will invade Europe first then the US in the next decade, that's plain nutz.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggs
    I'll re-ask my question since you didn't answer it the first time. Do you really think someone fool would try attacking the Air Force Academy, a secure facility, with armed guards, and full of military people who would be on guard anyhow? Wouldn't it be a heck of a lot easier to blow up bus, train, stadium, etc?? Less work, more casualties, more news coverage.

    Who do you think we're fighting anyway, Z-Germans?
    Ridiculous you say? Perhaps, but as others have said, so was using planes as missiles.

    Sometimes, those of us in that business don't appreciate just how well we've done our jobs. The fact that Wiggs - and lots of other people - don't see why the AFA would be a prime target, so let me try and explain.

    First, let me start by answering your last question. We're fighting people who don't value human life. Worse, they use the fact that we do as a tool or weapon against us.

    So, with that in mind, let's look at why the AFA, or West Point or Annapolis, would be an ideal target for a terrorist. We value, treasure and protect our kids in our country. Look at all the safety procedures and practices at schools these days. Look at what happened in Russia at the Beslan School. Look at VT.

    Now, transpose that to one of our nations leading schools, one where we train our nations future military leaders. Pull off an attack that kills military members, college students, college students that are military cadets, on a base, in the city that hosts the combatant command responsible for Homeland Defense and you've hit the jackpot!

    What can a biker do, you say? Repeated trips with a camelbak loaded with small pieces that could be stashed in the woods and then eventually assembled into something significant comes to mind.

    Fortunately for you Wiggs and rroeder, you don't have to think in those terms; there are people who do it every day... and they're not on any kind of soapbox.. Maybe they over react, maybe not. It's awful hard to prove a negative, that is, that something DIDN'T happen because of the increased FPCON!
    Last edited by skiahh; 05-09-2011 at 10:35 PM.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck
    I will try to update when the FPCON changes and folks are allowed back on.
    I did ask about the entry from santa fe trail onto the academy, I was told that if you are caught doing that, that you will be escorted off base property by el paso pd and might be charged. (they are doing random checks, I got stopped the other evening riding)

    If you have anyone with a military id card that is willing to ride with you, then the can ride in your car in with you and you are able to ride still. Just give it some time, It is a privileged not a right to ride there any other time. So lets respect the rules and wait till it opens back up.

    *NOT a official spokesman of USAFA just adding my .02*
    Thanks for the clarification and updates. Thankfully it isn't like we have no where else to ride. There are MANY other places that will do just fine in the meantime.

  33. #33
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    Regarding the AFA, but a bit off topic - someone at the guard-gate South Entrance said that the Railroad Tie stairs are gone and the hillside completely restored/reclaimed with that grass seed netting/ground cloth stuff.

    Hitech, or others, is this true? I'd be sad, those were a wicked workout. We'd ride our bikes there and do a couple reps to get ready for race season. They'd blow your calves out for some reason, but once you got used to it they really helped push pedals.

    thanks!
    jon

  34. #34
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    I walked them a few weeks ago. The ground just next to the stairs has had a bunch of work done but the 312 ties of torture still in place, unless removed in the last few days.

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    Thanks Curtis, I think this is very recent, like within a week or less. I was on them 2 weeks ago and they were just as painful as ever. I'm hoping the guy at the gate my friends' spoke with was just having fun at their expense - they were better maintained this year than I've seen in quite a while, so it seems odd they would just remove them.

    On second thought, related to this thread, I guess I can come up with several reasons to yank them!

    thanks,jon.

  36. #36
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    Any updates on falcon access?

  37. #37
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    Just guessing

    But after the events overseas today I would bet conditions have not changed, if anything they may get even tighter so for the next couple weeks its looking as if AFA is a no go.

    Dam,
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  38. #38
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    As of this morning when i went on to play golf, It is still bravo so a no go for falcon without ID.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggs
    Uhh, that guy was an Army Major, not a mountain biker...
    They are stopping EVERYONE who does not have a military ID.
    Repeat after me Wiggs, EVERYONE

    They don't care if you're Mother Theresa, and they definitely don't think whiny Joe mtbr is anything special.

  40. #40
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    still bravo

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowandlow
    They are stopping EVERYONE who does not have a military ID.
    Repeat after me Wiggs, EVERYONE

    They don't care if you're Mother Theresa, and they definitely don't think whiny Joe mtbr is anything special.

    Way to take things out of context.

    Repeat after me slowandlow, RETARDED.

  42. #42
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    Thanks Wiggs

    I was just gonna ignore the troll

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggs
    Way to take things out of context.

    Repeat after me slowandlow, RETARDED.

    Dam,
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    I would not trust everything you read in the media.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JOEMTBR COLORADO
    I was just gonna ignore the troll
    DOH!
    Didn't realize there was a JOEMTBR.
    Wasn't meaning you when I said "whiny Joe mtbr".

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck
    I would not trust everything you read in the media.

    No doubt, this article confused me. If you can only drive to the visitors center but not ride on any roads then you can't get over to the Falcon Trail from the visitors center by riding to it on the road. Guess I'll just stay at home and read Catch- 22 instead.

  47. #47
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    Not on the Same Page

    From what I've heard it seems like everyone on the AFA thinks the Falcon trail is closed except their spokesman or the Gazette got it wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ultrarob
    From what I've heard it seems like everyone on the AFA thinks the Falcon trail is closed except their spokesman or the Gazette got it wrong.
    Neither, It IS still and always has been open to MILITARY and there guest they are with only. The gazette failed to mention this in the article, and im thinking they quoted him on the rules of the santa fe trail, classic news way of taking things out of context.

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    Any change in access to AFA? wondering if now that graduation is done it will open up...

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    Just called, all is still the same as before graduation.

  51. #51
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    AFA offically open?

    Rode the loop yesterday, got on off the Sante fe, no signs no one said a word. Saw a few other riders and cars parked at lot by stadium but guess they could of been military.

  52. #52
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    Hopefully HTredneck can confirm this.

    C


    Edit This from the academy website

    "U.S. Air Force Academy Public Affairs

    5/3/2011 - U.S.AIR FORCE ACADEMY, Colo. -- The Air Force Academy has increased its security posture as directed by the Department of Defense. All gates remain open for business, but an increased number of people will be subject to search at the gates and at random checkpoints on the installation. Public and base personnel can expect increased security checks and possible delays.

    All tourists will be granted entry through the North Gate only during visitor hours, 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. A valid driver's license is required for Academy access. Access will be limited for tourists by manned security checkpoints around the installation.

    All visitors who need to be sponsored onto the installation for other business must use the South Gate Pass and Registration Center (PRC). Visitors with a valid need to enter must have a photo ID. Specific instructions for sponsored visitors will be given at the PRC or at the South Gate by Security Forces and Chenega Guards. At a minimum, sponsored visitors must have a valid need to be on the installation and have a point of contact that can be called from the PRC or South Gate. After the need has been validated, a pass will be issued to the sponsored visitor(s) and access granted."

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder View Post
    Rode the loop yesterday, got on off the Sante fe, no signs no one said a word. Saw a few other riders and cars parked at lot by stadium but guess they could of been military.
    Since your Rep power is so high, it must be OK to ride now...
    Tact is for people not witty enough to be sarcastic...

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder View Post
    Rode the loop yesterday, got on off the Sante fe, no signs no one said a word. Saw a few other riders and cars parked at lot by stadium but guess they could of been military.
    They were. My car was one of the ones there. And nothing's changed; I asked when I went through the gate.

    If you get caught, you'll get charged with trespassing. After they determine you're not a threat - and trust me, the USAF takes their security seriously - they'll turn you over to El Paso County to be arrested for trespassing.

    And all it takes is someone out on the trail to figure you don't belong and call security. They'll wait for you at the various road crossings - and in the process, stop the rest of us who can be out there - until they find you. And that includes the Santa Fe trail if they get really serious about it.

    The FPCON hasn't changed. If they wanted to get really nasty (and remember, I said the USAF takes its security seriously), they could hold your bike for examination... which might include a visual inspection inside the tubes to make sure you didn't have any bad intent. Would they? Probably not... but they could.

    And yes, those of use allowed on the base take it seriously, too, so any of the folks out there could have just stopped and called from their phones. I hope when you're out there, you're polite and give way to everyone you meet... just to make sure you don't get challenged!
    Last edited by skiahh; 06-06-2011 at 08:22 PM.

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    Out of order!

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    If you enter someone's private property, but did not do it knowingly, and had no ill intent to commit a felony or anything like that, then the "crime" is Third degree criminal trespass. Its a class 1 petty offense (lower than a misdemeanor).
    Fine = 0 to $500
    Time = 0 to 6 months not in a state correctional institution.

    It is true that the private property does not have to be posted to to apply this law. This law could be applied to the guy who runs into the neighbors yard to get his basketball.

    http://abclegaldocs.com/Downloads/CR...ssing_Laws.pdf

    I don't know if there is some Federal law that would apply to Military property, but probably, there is.

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    Thx skiahh, I'm always polite on the trail regardless. Curious tho, if they are that serious why not some signs or someone like a security guard at the dirt road that leads to Pine dr? I've seen them on the Sante fe before.

    If I didn't hangout here I would of had no idea the base was off limits to non military, I imagine there are a lot of folks riding the loop with no clue.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by kchri View Post
    Since your Rep power is so high, it must be OK to ride now...
    They musta known it was me

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    Quote Originally Posted by skiahh View Post
    If you get caught, you'll get charged with trespassing. After they determine you're not a threat - and trust me, the USAF takes their security seriously - they'll turn you over to El Paso County to be arrested for trespassing.
    If there's no sign they cannot charge you with trespassing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleTrail View Post
    If there's no sign they cannot charge you with trespassing.
    Not True in Colorado!

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    Ok so it's not *offically* open, got it thx, no need for further discussion

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis C View Post
    Hopefully HTredneck can confirm this.

    C


    Edit This from the academy website

    "U.S. Air Force Academy Public Affairs

    5/3/2011 - U.S.AIR FORCE ACADEMY, Colo. -- The Air Force Academy has increased its security posture as directed by the Department of Defense. All gates remain open for business, but an increased number of people will be subject to search at the gates and at random checkpoints on the installation. Public and base personnel can expect increased security checks and possible delays.

    All tourists will be granted entry through the North Gate only during visitor hours, 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. A valid driver's license is required for Academy access. Access will be limited for tourists by manned security checkpoints around the installation.

    All visitors who need to be sponsored onto the installation for other business must use the South Gate Pass and Registration Center (PRC). Visitors with a valid need to enter must have a photo ID. Specific instructions for sponsored visitors will be given at the PRC or at the South Gate by Security Forces and Chenega Guards. At a minimum, sponsored visitors must have a valid need to be on the installation and have a point of contact that can be called from the PRC or South Gate. After the need has been validated, a pass will be issued to the sponsored visitor(s) and access granted."

    I must be dense or something, but the comment from AFA website makes it sound like the trails are open, unless there is a manned security checkpoint that stops you.

    So, why are you guys talking like its closed? And if its closed, why is it so hard to tell when you are there, and why wouldn't they specifically mention it on their web statement?
    Tourists are allowed entry, except where there are manned checkpoints, etc. That sounds open to me.

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    I agree its not real clear but what I read was

    Access to tourist is limited to certain areas on the north side of the base, and there would be checkpoints (other than the gates) that one needs military ID or a militray host to get through. Looks to me like the trail crosses into an area they are trying to keep as off limits to tourist. I haven't tried it but I'd bet if you entered the North gate and told them you were planning to ride the Falcon Trail you would get turned around right there.

    Still hoping Redneck comes in to confirm rroeder's impression that it was opened.

    C

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis C View Post
    Not True in Colorado!
    I wish you would reference a statute where you got this from? I can't find jack anymore on Google.

    I just checked with the County.
    The SFRT is open except for the closed section where they are doing construction. (that's why there are no "trail closed" signs at the entrances.

    Falcon Trail is AFA so you're on your own. Wear a blue and white jersey?

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    Security Guard Discussion

    I tried to get on the base at the North Gate on Saturday, May 28th. I was told only visitors were allowed 4 miles up the road to the visitors center and back. I asked specifically about the Falcon Trial. He said it was closed since it ran through the heart of the base. It would be opened once the security level was reduced. The Santa Fe trail remains open (other than the construction issue) since it runs along the edge of the base. No sure about the trespassing issue (whether it needs to be posted or not) HOWEVER you are knowingly riding on a military installation and thier rules tend to be a little harsh.

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    UT I posted it on one of Big Galoots controversial trespass threads in the past but it must have been deleted.

    Basically property lines do not have to be marked, signed or fenced in the state of Colorado. It is each persons responsibility to know where public and private property lines are. If you get on private property you are trespassing. Rather than me looking it up and posting it again it would prolly be easier for you to ask a law enforcement friend or just talk to a local sheriff. If I have some down time I will see if I could round it up again.

    C

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis C View Post
    Rather than me looking it up and posting it again it would prolly be easier for you to ask a law enforcement friend or just talk to a local sheriff. If I have some down time I will see if I could round it up again.

    C
    Thanks Curt. Yes, definitely a "fence out" state, w/open range law. Wasn't aware of the signage rule since as a gov employee we are allowed to enter private property without permission if it is unsigned.

    I've been trying to ask a deputy but they're all upstairs in a conference eating donuts or something.... .

    Thx,
    UT

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    You figure it out.

    Falcon trail is STILL closed to non military or DOD persons without a proper escort present to vouch and sponsor said non military or DOD person. Access to Santa fe trail is still open on the weekends but closed due to construction during the week. I will try to help out with what seems to be a "gray" area.

    If you are wanting to ride the santa fe trail threw USAFA see sign A-C for rules that apply.

    If you are wanting to access a trail head that is not attached to the current trail you are on by going threw a parking lot and dirt road to a paved road to another trail please see sign A-C it tends to be pretty clear.

    If caught on trail that is closed to public, see sign A - C (bottom lines) claiming not knowing will not go far as signs are posted.

    If you are wondering if you can use santa fe to access the other trails on base to bypass security please see sign A-C.

    Sign "A"


    Sign "B"


    Sign "C"
    Last edited by hitechredneck; 06-08-2011 at 05:34 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleTrail View Post
    If there's no sign they cannot charge you with trespassing.
    There are signs all over the USAFA that say no entry without the permission of the commanding officer. And at FPCON B, that permission has been withdrawn, except for the north gate to visitors center. No other areas are open for visitation, including the trails.

    They can, and will, charge you with tresspassing. After they determine you are not a terrorist or some other kind of threat to the military personnel and/or cadets based there.

    And that doesn't matter if you're local government or not. If you're federal, you'll have an ID and you are allowed on base, so it doesn't matter.

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    The end...


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    I think you guys are just trying to keep the trail to yourself!

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    Quote Originally Posted by skiahh View Post
    No other areas are open for visitation, including the trails.
    The SFRT is a COUNTY trail controlled through an EPC/DOD agreement. It is OPEN, except for the closed section under the bridge. If it's closed, the SFRT/AFA gates are shut and "closed" signage is supposed to be placed at the entrance as per the agreement.

    The issue I am speaking to is if you are on the SFRT, and enter the base through the Ice Lake Trailhead or any of the other social trails, can you be cited for trespassing even though there is no signage. What if I dropped in from Rampart? What if I came up the powerline?

    I called the Sheriffs Office. Yes. You can be cited by the EPC SO for trespassing IF the AFA chooses to do so. You can be cited anywhere in CO, even an unfenced front yard.

    Whether or not it would hold up in court is debatable. I tend to think not, since the SFRT is open, and the Falcon Trail is an "attractive nuisance". IIRC there are signage requirements for this circumstance which relate back to the Colorado Recreational Use Statute.

    If the AFA wants to keep people off the Falcon Trail then they(and the County) need to do a better job of signing the access points off the SFRT and informing the trail users. That's my point. A press release and a "Stay on the Trail" sign doesn't cut it.

    IMHO those "Stay on the Trail" signs apply to all trails and are misleading under these circumstances. It's a general rule that applies to all County trails.

    A sign at the RR track crossing leading away from the Ice Lake Trailhead would be much more appropriate.


    UT

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    Not to be a dick but i tend to fail to see how in TWO places that it is listed on both a el paso sign and a air force sign to stay on that trail seem to confuse you?
    Is there a sign that needs to be in neon? Maybe a sign a that says HEY YOU SLOW DOWN AND READ ME. Im not the most educated person but, I tend to get the meaning of the signs that say stay on trail, so by getting on a ROAD to get another trail i would then NOT still be on said trail that had a sign listing stay on it. I dont see how this seems to be so complicated to some.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    Not to be a dick but i tend to fail to see how in TWO places that it is listed on both a el paso sign and a air force sign to stay on that trail seem to confuse you?
    You're not being a dick, we're having a discussion and trying to bring some clarity to a confusing situation. Unless you insult my family, or Texas , I'm not easily offended.

    My point is; "Stay on the trail" is a general "rule" that most Parks Departments use on most trails. It is not enforced anywhere in EPC, ignored by trail users everywhere, and that same rule is seen on all the other trail rule signs throughout the county.

    "Stay on the Trail" is NOT a state statute, nor local ordinance, that people can be cited for.

    If the AFA wishes to enforce "No Trespassing" then I would suggest "No Trespassing Past This Point" sign would be more appropriate for a military installation.

    And the signs should be placed at all locations leading off/to the SFRT, like the RR track crossing leading away from the Ice Lake Trailhead, if you do not want trail users to access the Falcon Trail from there.

    Ignoring the fact that many MTB'rs access the Falcon Trail via the SFRT is incredibly naive of AFA staff, or just being cheap and not wanting to spend the money to put the signs up.

    People are not going to ride all the way up to southgate/northgate to access through an secure entrance and then ride all the way out to the Falcon Trail. They're going to take the most direct route. That's reality.

    Which is what rroeder did, he accessed Falcon from the SFRT and then asked why there were no signs saying the Falcon Trail is closed at that location.


    UT

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    I have to agree with UT, but I also enjoy the lack of enforcement so don't want that to change!

    I just wanted to know if it was officially open yet as that was the impression I got, and that was answered. No need to imply that riders are gonna get stopped and searched tho if that's not actually happening, this is a forum for MBers afterall right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder View Post
    I have to agree with UT, but I also enjoy the lack of enforcement so don't want that to change!

    I just wanted to know if it was officially open yet as that was the impression I got, and that was answered. No need to imply that riders are gonna get stopped and searched tho if that's not actually happening, this is a forum for MBers afterall right?
    Haha...this is funny. Who would have thought we would have two pages about when USAFA was coming off FPCON Bravo and people could ride FT?
    I'll jump in as a grad, someone who works on the base, and someone who rides Falcon.

    To clear up confusion about "visitors being allowed on through the northgate." Yes, visitors can get on after 8AM BUT can only stay on Northgate to the visitor center. You can NOT take a left onto stadium blvd (near the B-52 airplane) as there is another entry point/guard shack about 100 yards down. You can NOT take al left onto Parade Loop to get to the Field House as there are two huge barriers that are dropped down. And you can't get past the visitor center on the road to the far west as there is another guard shake/entry point.

    Also, realize, USAFA is a lot of things to include a tourist attraction so they let the visitors get to the visitor center. But likewise, it also has base housing with a lot of military officers/enlisted and that is just as important as the Academy site/cadets itself.

    Also, realize there have been other plots to hit military instilations ie: McGuire AFB/Ft Dix in Jersey, where terrorists were picked up and prosecuted so it is not just a Ft Hood lone gunman thing we should focus on (that is from memory...I might not have the right base).

    Sure you can find a way on the trail. I can do 80 mph in a 60 and when I get a ticket, I get a ticket but getting cuffed by an 19 year old airman, escorted off the base and possibly charged...ehhh...risk vs reward to me...to each their own.

    As for other posts above which I'm to lazy to quote, well, if you are going to qweep about the verbage on a sign, good luck with that too. I'm sure the judge would love to hear your expert legal opinion...again to each their own. As for placing signs in every possible location-well everybody complains about the gov/military spending to much money on stupid things, hell I work here and complain about it, but that would be some great PR...signs every 100 feet...good use of taxpayer money!

    As for texas (little t on purpose) ehh..did a few years there...mom always said if you can't say anything nice....you get the drift

    Hope the Bravo goes away soon...

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    Im having a feeling that we will never see eye to eye on this subject.

    However, It does say on the sign, as you go threw the fence when you enter onto the academy to stay on the trail in two places. It also states that violators will be prosecuted as well as giving you a federal statute on by entering onto the base you are doing so with the blessing of the commander as well as being " under there control and subject to search" Maybe I think of more and a black and white kind of thing and dont like to draw a gray area as wide as I can.

    But the official stance is that it is not allowed, according to the El Paso and AF regs, also is posted on both signs on what rules you need to follow. If a person is going to blatantly ignore the other two signs and think that they dont apply to them, I fail to see how adding another sign will stop people from poaching on a trail they are not supposed to be on at that time.

    So by entering onto the base the way you talked about after passing the signs that says stay on the trail you are knowing breaking the law and are now trespassing. Posting another sign will not change anything if you know you are already disregarding two signs what is another one to just ride right by. People that have set there mind that they are going to break the rules are going to do it if there is another sign or not.

    So when you are driving down the road and you see a speed limit sign does it say the regulation number that if speeding they can charge you? even though the speed limit is posted and mostly ignored by the population you can still get a speeding ticket right? even without the regulation number being posted, yes. If you decide that you dont want to wait in traffic and decide to drive down the median and a cop pulls you over and give you a ticket do you say you didnt know cause there was not enough signs to say stay on the road or this could happen to you. Or do you know that when you got your licensed that rules apply and that they dont need to tell you ever number and statue. kinda like stay on the trail, It is pretty black and white, stay on the trail. hard to think of what else that mean. The just cause every where else people ignore it (just like the speed limit) does not mean that the sign says stay on the trail......well only if you want to. Black and white way of looking at it seems to take about 99.9% of questions out of the picture.

    Just remember that there is a difference between a right and a privilege, the falcon trail is on the second half of that statement. Please do not make it so that trails get closed down and taken away forever for others cause you cant find a different place to ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    Im having a feeling that we will never see eye to eye on this subject.
    Dude...totally beat you to it....

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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    Please do not make it so that trails get closed down and taken away forever for others cause you cant find a different place to ride.
    I'm not the one poaching Falcon. Haven't ridden it since... maybe January? I hate dealing with the closure issue and never knowing what is or is not against the rules.

    Besides, I've been too busy poaching Mule Trail... and the others I'm not going to tell you about.


    UT

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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleTrail View Post
    I'm not the one poaching Falcon. Haven't ridden it since... maybe January? I hate dealing with the closure issue and never knowing what is or is not against the rules.

    Besides, I've been too busy poaching Mule Trail... and the others I'm not going to tell you about.


    UT
    I was not point the finger just at you making a broad statement about all that might go that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleTrail View Post
    The SFRT is a COUNTY trail controlled through an EPC/DOD agreement. It is OPEN, except for the closed section under the bridge. If it's closed, the SFRT/AFA gates are shut and "closed" signage is supposed to be placed at the entrance as per the agreement.

    The issue I am speaking to is if you are on the SFRT, and enter the base through the Ice Lake Trailhead or any of the other social trails, can you be cited for trespassing even though there is no signage. What if I dropped in from Rampart? What if I came up the powerline?

    I called the Sheriffs Office. Yes. You can be cited by the EPC SO for trespassing IF the AFA chooses to do so. You can be cited anywhere in CO, even an unfenced front yard.

    Whether or not it would hold up in court is debatable. I tend to think not, since the SFRT is open, and the Falcon Trail is an "attractive nuisance". IIRC there are signage requirements for this circumstance which relate back to the Colorado Recreational Use Statute.

    If the AFA wants to keep people off the Falcon Trail then they(and the County) need to do a better job of signing the access points off the SFRT and informing the trail users. That's my point. A press release and a "Stay on the Trail" sign doesn't cut it.

    IMHO those "Stay on the Trail" signs apply to all trails and are misleading under these circumstances. It's a general rule that applies to all County trails.

    A sign at the RR track crossing leading away from the Ice Lake Trailhead would be much more appropriate.


    UT
    Yes, you are right about the Santa Fe Trail, though the CO could close it at his/her discretion. Though I haven't read the agreement, I can pretty much guarantee that it has a clause that says if the base commander feels there is a valid threat, s/he can shut it down on his own authority.

    An attractive nuisance is something that is enticing from where you are. You have to make a conscious decision to deviate off the SF trail, ride a mile or so to the Falcon trail. That's not an "attractive nuisance", it's a conscious decision to violate the law.

    Also, an attractive nuisance doesn't excuse you from your violation of the law, it's used to determine liability in an injury case:

    "In the law of torts, the attractive nuisance doctrine states that landowner may be held liable for injuries to children trespassing on the land if the injury is caused by a hazardous object or condition on the land that is likely to attract children who are unable to appreciate the risk posed by the object or condition. The doctrine has been applied to hold landowners liable for injuries caused by abandoned cars, piles of lumber or sand, trampolines, and swimming pools. However, it can be applied to virtually anything on the property of the landowner."

    And since it applies to kids, should we infer something from your apparent reliance on the principle???

    Finally, if you'd like to test out your theories, then let's do it. You go ride on from the SF trail, I'll pass you and realize you're not supposed to be there and call base security. Then we'll see just how serious they are about security on that base.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skiahh View Post
    Finally, if you'd like to test out your theories, then let's do it. You go ride on from the SF trail, I'll pass you and realize you're not supposed to be there and call base security. Then we'll see just how serious they are about security on that base.
    Don't need to...

    You can ask this guy if he settled out of court with the AFA or if he was cited for trespassing? (Not being a smartass, I just don't know how it all ended up.)

    http://www.kktv.com/home/headlines/27860099.html
    KKTV Sports Reporter Finds Missing Man Injured But Alive

    You know the "trail"? That asphalt strip along the east side of I-25 on AFA property, just north of Northgate. We all thought it was a bike trail. But nope. It's not.

    Background:
    He was riding at night, on a trail on the AFA that is/was signed as a "Bike Trail", but it wasn't. No one maintained the "trail", even though it was signed as a bike trail. He was trespassing on the AFA.

    Mr. Nelson fell face first into a 6' ? deep washout at a creek crossing. Missing for 24 hours. Broken neck, etc... not good. I believe he tried to sue the county/AFA/CDOT not sure what happened.

    Dumb,.. meet Dumber...
    Last edited by UncleTrail; 06-08-2011 at 09:18 PM.

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    This is now the most boring, redundant thread on this forum...
    Tact is for people not witty enough to be sarcastic...

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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    Just called, all is still the same as before graduation.
    Thanx for the updates, very much appreciated. This thread is my best info on accessiblity of falcon trail and any changes in accessibility by non military. I have Air Force friends, but want to wait until this security level lowers for the most part. Plenty of other fine places to ride in the meantime!

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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleTrail View Post
    Don't need to...

    You can ask this guy if he settled out of court with the AFA or if he was cited for trespassing? (Not being a smartass, I just don't know how it all ended up.)

    http://www.kktv.com/home/headlines/27860099.html
    KKTV Sports Reporter Finds Missing Man Injured But Alive

    You know the "trail"? That asphalt strip along the east side of I-25 on AFA property, just north of Northgate. We all thought it was a bike trail. But nope. It's not.

    Background:
    He was riding at night, on a trail on the AFA that is/was signed as a "Bike Trail", but it wasn't. No one maintained the "trail", even though it was signed as a bike trail. He was trespassing on the AFA.

    Mr. Nelson fell face first into a 6' ? deep washout at a creek crossing. Missing for 24 hours. Broken neck, etc... not good. I believe he tried to sue the county/AFA/CDOT not sure what happened.

    Dumb,.. meet Dumber...
    Irrelevant.

    That was three years ago... during FPCON A. Totally different situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Short Bus View Post
    The end...

    Since I started the thread I thought I'd say that all I wanted to know when the FPCON status changes so I could ride the #&@$in' trail ... then the trolls start in - it's like sitting at a keyboard makes people argumentative...

    Since the original purpose of this thread has been long lost - anyone interested in learning the FPCON status can go here.

    Who else wants the bat?

    G'night.

    S
    "You know how they make aluminum bike frames? They take steel and suck out all the soul..."

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    Hitch - saw the message for Alpha. What's the USAFA status?

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    Trails are still closed to non military or DOD card holders unless they have a sponsor. All security measures are as they were durning FPCON Bravo.

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    I was able to ride yesterday with a host. There are still guard shacks preventing non military from accessing the south side of the academy. One of the CS bikes shops told me Falcon had been opened but that is NOT the case. If you hear the same thing, do yourself a favor and double check before heading up there.

    C

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    Any change to the access restrictions? I had heard from an AFA employee last week that while still in place, a guard shack had been moved back to where you could access the trail. True?

  91. #91
    I think I can.
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    Still closed

    The base has what they call Bravo Measures and the Falcon trail is still closed to non-dod members.

    Like a friend of mine said early on this will probably be the case as 9/11 10yr is just around the corner.

    Maybe by fall

    Dam,
    Bikes are FUN

  92. #92
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    "FPCON Bravo"? The DOD must have a crack team of 11-year-olds making up these names.

  93. #93
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    according to the LE desk....

    Quote Originally Posted by Martlet View Post
    Any change to the access restrictions? I had heard from an AFA employee last week that while still in place, a guard shack had been moved back to where you could access the trail. True?
    I work up on the hill so I can verify that the guard shacks have been moved and anybody can get to the football stadium parking lot through the north gate.
    I also called the law enforcement desk 333-2000 and asked if civilians, not escorted by military, can use the trail. The guy I talked with said yes.
    With anything when dealing with 19 year old airmen, I would call, get a name, then hit the trail.
    have fun
    FYI: we are at FPCON Alpha with some additional security measures (restrictions on getting near base housing)

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    as of 7/28

    So I just called the visitors center and they said that only the northern portion of the trail is open. the portion that goes through the middle of the base is still off limits. Bummer

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsotak View Post
    So I just called the visitors center and they said that only the northern portion of the trail is open. the portion that goes through the middle of the base is still off limits. Bummer
    Yeah, I'm hopeful that this will change after 9/11/11 (assuming no terrorist attacks of course). That being said, there is a part of me that wonders if I'll ever get to ride Falcon Trail again without a buddy bringing me on to the base.

  96. #96
    Inflexable...
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    Just got off the phone with President Obama and he said, just like with most laws, it is only illegal if you get caught...
    Tact is for people not witty enough to be sarcastic...

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsotak View Post
    So I just called the visitors center and they said that only the northern portion of the trail is open. the portion that goes through the middle of the base is still off limits. Bummer
    not looking to go tit for tat or anything but just came back to work from lunch as asked the rent a cop at the north gate what the policy was with falcon trail. he advised there was none as far as they have been told. as long as you don't drive through the checkpoints you can go/park anywhere including falcon staduim. the guard shack is south of falcon stadium.
    granted you won't be able to park at stanley canyon, the fire station, or the community center.
    when i leave for work I have never seen a cop sitting at a road crossing on the falcon trail.
    I would say good to go. Call the LE front desk, get confirmation, get a name and ride.
    disclaimer: I have a mil ID card so I'm good to go...likewise, I have never been asked for it while biking.

  98. #98
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    Maybe I'll do a security check tomorrow.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleTrail View Post
    Maybe I'll do a security check tomorrow.
    So if we don't here from you tomorrow evening can we assume Falcon Trail is still closed unless you have an ID or a host with said ID?

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis C View Post
    So if we don't here from you tomorrow evening can we assume Falcon Trail is still closed unless you have an ID or a host with said ID?
    I'm not going to carry an ID.

    Mi nombre es juan y estoy en busca de trabajo agrícola.

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