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Devils Backbone--Blue Sky

11K views 121 replies 34 participants last post by  jugdish 
#1 ·
I had a disturbing incident this weekend that I'd like to report.

Well I got yelled at twice on Sunday while riding the Blue Sky Trail. The first time I was climbing towards Devil’s Backbone (on Blue Sky). I noticed a hiker up ahead, but wanted to keep my momentum through the loose rock. I was barely moving as I passed her (it appeared she was a park ranger), but was cautious and said hi. I was 10-15 feet past her when I heard her mumble, “You know you need to dismount your bike when you cross a hiker.” After reaching the top, I chilled for a minute and then descended the same way I had just climbed. This time I approached the “ranger” very slowly. When she heard me coming she stopped and turned to face me. Once again I was barely moving when I passed her, said hi and went on my way.

Later in the ride I began to approach two rangers on bikes. They saw me coming and basically blocked the trail. The ranger went into this big talk about trail etiquette and how riders MUST dismount and WALK their bikes around hikers ALWAYS. Then he said that a “hiker” had complained that I “bombed” past her earlier. I asked him if he was referring to his “friend” near Devils Backbone. He said yes. I told him the story, explaining that I was climbing up a hill and couldn’t have been “bombing” and I approached the "hiker" from the opposite direction (meaning I didn't sneak up on her), but he didn’t seem too interested and continued to lecture me on how to behave on the trails.

My guess is that this “hiker” complaint will get logged somewhere. The funny thing is that it’s from one of the rangers. Also during this ride I passed 2 other hikers and a woman on a horse twice. In all three instances the encounters were very pleasant…and I never got off my bike. I hope that the rangers don’t continue to fabricate tails of unruly bikers.
 
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#3 ·
Mountain bikers yield to hikers and horses. Larimer County is taking that stand point that it does not matter if you are going uphill or downhill, mountain bikers yield.

I'd suggest that if we want to keep access to DB and possibly even Blue Sky, that you should always stop when encountering another trail user. Though I think doing a cyclocross dismount is bit far, you should announce yourself, ask to pass, and wait for permission.

This is all in the name of saving trail access. Each time you stop, think of it as another complaint not logged against mountain bikers.
 
#4 ·
Ok, but how much are we going to stand for?

I experienced the same thing and I think it's becoming confrontational with the area rangers to the point of harrassment of bikers. These are public lands and bikers are citizens too.

I thought the opening of Blue Sky would herald something great in this area, but it seems to have only amplified our differences...:madmax:
 
#6 ·
Here's what the Patrol Manual of the IMBA/NMBP has to say:

"Always yield trail and respect other users". Page 8

"Yielding does not necessarily mean stopping". Page 10

From IMBA's "Rules of the Trail"

4. Always Yield Trail.
Let your fellow trail users know you're coming. A friendly greeting or bell is considerate and works well; don't startle others. Show your respect when passing by slowing to a walking pace or even stopping. Anticipate other trail users around corners or in blind spots. Yielding means slow down, establish communication, be prepared to stop if necessary and pass safely.

Glenn D.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Maybe I'm just Lucky; I've never met a surly hiker.

Without fail, they will always step over when they see/hear me coming and I ALWAYS tell them "Thank you very much, you didn't have to do that".

Yield and dismount are two very different things. At any point on the Blue Sky Trail there is room a for a bike and a hiker w/o either of them leaving the trail bed or endangering anyone. Most trails around Ft. Collins are wide enough that I can slow to a "psuedo-trackstand" when approaching a hiker and both of us pass w/o leaving the trail. That's what I term "Yielding". But most hikers "think" they are supposed to yield. On my ride up in the Snowy's last week, I was riding back out Friday afternoon, as the weekend rush of backpackers was heading in. Lot's of them, 30-40 at least, with one huge group. As soon as they saw me, everyone, without fail, stepped out of the trail and were waving me to ride on. The smaller groups, I took up on their offer, but I waved the huge group through and dismounted ( the trail is only 12-18" wide) and as their leader approached, he thanked me and said I didn't have to do that. That's when I told him I was required to yield to them and everything else and he said "I didn't know that". I've heard that from many hikers. They see a horse or MB'er and step off the path for you just because they don't know that "we" are supposed to yield. Many of them just want to see us ride up/down the trail they've been struggling up. I heard several comments to the effect of "How did you get that bike up here ??" :D

It's funny how it gets beat into "our" heads to yield.

What if said "hiker/ Ranger" at Blue Sky was approached by a large group of trail runners ?? . Are they supposed to stop, run in place, and wait for her to pass on an approach ?? What if the group went thundering past from behind, is she going to bit*ch about being run down as they go by ??

I will continue to "yield" to hikers, horses, 4WD'$, etc. but requiring a full dismount is insane, petty, and poor trail management. A dismount will require somebody/bike being "off trail" and causing resource damage. Every time a biker dismounts to run around a hiker is going to further erode the sides of the trail. Wise trail mangement Larimer Park Dick's. I've seen this in a lot of places, cop-wannabes trying to show how "powerfull" they are:madman:
 
#9 ·
I agree too - these guys are "Cherubs of Justice" and truly have it out for cyclists in general. But they have it out for everyone....and they really hate dogs too.

I was running with my dog in the spring on Coyote Ridge when one of these guys tried to write me a ticket for "dog at large" when my poor dog was on a retractable leash and was 30 feet out in front of me. He totally blocked the trail with his bike and said "can I talk to you for a second." Then he went on to tell me those leashes should be banned because they clothesline other trail users and I should consider something shorter. He ended up being pretty nice, but sheesh - carry binoculars or something instead of accusing me of not having my friggin dog on a leash. This dude pulled out a clipboard from his pannier rack, and he even hit his mini recorder on his belt to record our conversation (he tried being smooth about it but nothing passes by me.)

FYI, all these guys have recorders for safety and possible future court appearances if necessary...basically if you get cited and try to fight it. Watch what you say and be nice.
 
#10 ·
hatake said:
So we are supposed to get off the bike, push it up pass the uphill hikers like a maniac racer, then get back on the saddle? Really? Can anyone direct me to this rule?
Yes.
That is what they want us to do.
Two weeks ago on DBB I came across two rangers. We saw each other from afar. They clearly were not going to yield the trail so I dismounted and spoke with them.
They indeed want bikers EACH AND EVERY TIME to yield to hikers. In their eyes it doesn't matter that the trail was wide enough for two people hiking side by side to have plenty of room to let a solo rider slide by.

My opinion?
I always vote for the common sense approach. Moderation is the key to happiness. I see no reason why hikers couldn't slide three feet over to let a biker pass provided that biker has given ample verbal warning if approaching from behind and that the trail is safe enough to allow passage.
But that's not what they are looking for.

What can we do about it?
Beats the sh$t out of me. Having attended several trail related meetings over the past few years I get the distinct impression that Larimer Open Space allows bikers to attend for pretense reasons only. They really don't seem too interested in our opinions or goals. I have not attending a City of FCO meeting but am told that things there are not dissimilar
 
#12 ·
Wow that's too bad. It seems they have taken devil's backbone and made it the hikers' world with all the trail closures they have done to that trail. What you are describing with dismounting every time for hikers sounds pretty stupid to me, when they can take one step and take about 1-2 seconds out of their hike to let us pass. I know if you read the rules literally it tells us to dismount every time but actually implementing that on a busy day with a bunch of riders would make for a bad day on the "bone."

I thought we had it bad in Boulder but I have never seen a ranger block a trail and then pull out a clipboard and a recorder. It sounds like they are pretty intense and really don't like bikers.
 
#13 ·
IMO, the rangers should be yielding to everyone.

I realize the importance of slowing on the dh when passing people (which still blows, but I understand), but having to get off the bike and walk past a hiker on the uphill, thus losing all momentum, when they can simply take one step sideways off the trail is ludicrous.

Edit for addition: Anyone ever been at Apex when the rangers are radar'ing bikers and writing tickets if you are going over 15mph or something along those lines?
 
#14 ·
kokothemonkey said:
Wow that's too bad. It seems they have taken devil's backbone and made it the hikers' world with all the trail closures they have done to that trail. What you are describing with dismounting every time for hikers sounds pretty stupid to me, when they can take one step and take about 1-2 seconds out of their hike to let us pass. I know if you read the rules literally it tells us to dismount every time
No they don't. See above.

Glenn D.
 
#16 ·
The Squeaky Wheel said:
I hope you're kidding
I wish I was kidding, but it's absolutely true. I've never been stopped by them, but have seen them lurking on my way up and have been warned about them by dudes on their way down with tickets in pocket, so I was cautious on my way down...which ruined the entire ride. :madman: It's usually on weekends when the traffic is heavier. However, I've always found that as long as you slow down a bit when passing hikers, most don't care. You'll get the occasional dickbrain that thinks he owns the trail because he is on foot with his bird-watching gear, but for the most part, I think people realize it isn't that big of a deal to move a step or two over and let a biker pass.
 
#17 ·
Vicious said:
but having to get off the bike and walk past a hiker on the uphill, thus losing all momentum, when they can simply take one step sideways off the trail is ludicrous.
I agree. I hike probably as much as I bike, and it is very easy for me to yield to bikers even though I technically don't have to do so. We all have to share the trails, and if you really have such disdain for bikers that you can't handle to be on the trail with them, then go to one of THE MANY hiking only trails.

I'm really frustrated over these developments in Larimer County (not that they are limited to Larimer by any stretch). I've volunteered a lot of hours in the last 2 years, and I really felt we were making strides with the County and the rangers. Evidentally not.
 
#18 ·
:mad: I guess it wouldn't be a bad idea to carry a copy of IMBA's rules of the trail. Is there a more official definition of 'yield' that the rangers getting their info from?

Dismounting and walking/running passed other trail users is just absurd.

On a positive note, I have to say that in Jeffco the rangers and all the other trail users are polite and courteous. Common sense seems to prevail on these heavily used trails.

BTW does anyone know who makes a handlebar mounted radar detector?
 
#19 ·
Steve71 said:
:mad: I guess it wouldn't be a bad idea to carry a copy of IMBA's rules of the trail. Is there a more official definition of 'yield' that the rangers getting their info from?
I don't think the rangers give a crap about IMBA

It would be nice if they were involved in our local affairs. I've never heard of them being involved with anything that's going on up here in Larimer County which is disappointing given that they're HQ 40 miles down the road. Perhaps they would have some success explaining the concept of "yield" to the powers that be
 
#22 ·
Where are "their" rules in print? Does it give a specific procedure for yielding? Or are the rangers just making it up as they go along. I know that it's their sandbox, but surely they are accountable. You know, they're not the law, but just there to enforce the printed law.

Whats next? Trail runners dismounting their sneakers to pass horses? :D
 
#23 ·
Agree with The Squeaky Wheel: I don't think IMBA has any jurisdiction in Larimer County, so it's not really helpful to cite those "rules."

In most places, bikes yielding to hikers means you're supposed to get off your bike if necessary. I don't, BTW, think it's particularly helpful to inform hikers of this rule (they might start thinking it's their duty not to yield). I've spoken with rangers here in Jeffco and they agree that while you're technically supposed to yield on a bike, in practice, most hikers will yield to cyclists 'cause they're being nice people and realizing that stopping a bike is a PITA relative to taking 2 steps ot the side. I tend to think hikers that don't yield are usually being rather discourteous, but in some narrow sections of trail, it does makes sense to totally sto your bike.

Never seen radar guns on Apex and since it's right by my house I ride it all the time. Then again, I tend to avoid the busier times. It's taken a bit, but I've programmed into my muscle memory all the blind corners and slow down around them. Once I encountered a ranger around a blind corner and said, "Hi."

He said, "Hi. Thanks for slowing down."

"No problem."

Just like a courteous hiker should step to the side even if they don't have to, a courteous cyclist should slow down even if it's unnecessary. 1) If you ever go hiking, bikes look like they're outta control even though you know the riders have plenty of space to stop/turn. 2) Just keeping the dust down when passing someone is a nice thing to do.

Sorry about the lecture-ish nature of the post. I was getting a little riled up reading it and wanted to direct my energy to something useful rather than posting some enraged smilies.
 
#24 ·
My "knee-jerk" reaction is to pull our support for trail adoption and cancel our remaining trail days at Devil's Backbone.

I've already written to the County expressing my concern over the closures but this is a new issue. I think more cyclists need to make comments to them on problems they're encountering. I recieved a prompt reply to my comments previously. Here's a link to the director of Parks and Open Lands:

http://www.co.larimer.co.us/common/mailform.cfm?to=buffingk
 
#26 ·
I am also a person that hikes almost as much as I bike...The biggest problem with bikers that I have when I am hiking is that when I step to the side to let a rider by they don't say a word..not a thank you or a thanks or anything. When I am on my bike, everytime I pass a hiker or a biker I say thanks. When a I let a biker pass me while I am hiking and they don't say thanks, I say "No Problem A@# Hole" Becase that is what they are.
 
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