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  1. #1
    No coast freeride.
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    can't believe it...

    So this may be all the way accross the nation, but it pretty much stunned me. How could an elected official even consider bringing up something this anti-bike, anti-enviromental, greedy bill. Especially in the urban jungle that is NYC where people don't even want to buy a car because it's too much of a pain to drive and park anyways...

    Somebody else just trying to reach their hand in your pocket for more $$$. Luckily, Boulder alone would prevent anything like that even being mentioned in CO.

    Again, this is accross the country. But I strongly encourage all cyclists to put your voice out on this issue.

    http://www.transalt.org/press/askta/041116bikebill.html
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  2. #2
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    hmmmm....

    I know I will be branded an evil monster here, but at least hear me out. I don't think I entirely disagree with this. I am an avid cyclist and really do not see a problem with holding cyclists responsible for their share. I do not see this as anti-environmental or anti-bicycle at all. If we are going to expect to be allowed to use the road/street system and have the same rights as a motorist to be on it, why shouldn't we do our part to pay the taxes and support said road/street system? If cyclists were paying as a motorist, don't you think that there would be more bicycle lanes nationally? We would definitely have a voice that would stand a better chance of being heard, as opposed to being considered a nuisance. I also believe that more cyclists need to obey the traffic laws while they are on the streets and be held accountable for their actions. I'm guilty of not always following them, as I am sure most of you are too. Have you ever been turning right at a red light (in your auto), only to have to stop because a cyclist is passing you on the right side and running through the red? What do these actions say to that redneck who just saw you run the light while he has to sit through it, only to be slowed down and have to wait to pass you when he catches up. I am not trying to say that we are justifying his actions at all. What I am saying is, like it or not, the majority of the population are not cyclists, they are motorists, and to them we are a nuisance. I know that there are a lot of idealogues in our sport who would rather die than even consider something like this, and that is fine. But the result is that we will continue to be considered a "second class user" in most parts of the country. I will now jump into a bunker and prepare for the attack...

  3. #3
    No coast freeride.
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    alright buddy, YOUR IN FOR IT!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by rfields4013
    . I will now jump into a bunker and prepare for the attack...
    I somewhat agree with your stance on holding cyclists accountable for their actions. Some people screw it up for all of us. However, I get on my bike so I don't have to worry about anything. Think about it, it's a beautiful summers afternoon with a high around 70. Blue sky and there is nothing separating you from your favorite trail. Your bike is all washed, ready to go. But dammit, your tags are expired. Do you want to risk the ticket of riding on an unregistered bike? Risk 15 days in jail and confiscation of your bike, because you had to ride that day? I would never give someone that much power over me. If they were to require tags on bicycles, why not: skateboards, electric razor scooters, unicycles, or any other peice of recreational equipment?? Honestly, i'm not a conspiracy theorist, I have faith in my government, and I don't live in Boulder. However, I feel this issue may have some slight indirect reference to holding us accountable, but the key here is $$$$.

    Now that wasn't so bad, was it??
    Rock Pounder Racing

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    Steelheads for sale! Trunk of my buddies car at the corner of Colfax and Mississippi, or email him at snowskilz@hotmail.com. It's a freakin bargain!! (If you make your own bolts)

  4. #4
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    Back at ya!

    I agree with you, that is an excellent point about riding to the trail. I thought about it after I posted my first reply. I was thinking that they would have to allow for situations like that by offering, as they do for autos, various forms of licensing (i.e recreational, etc.). If worse came to worse, I guess you could always haul it to the trail on your rack. But then, what if the trail is only 1 mile away?? If this were ever to become an issue, we as cyclists would HAVE to get involved to assure that points like this are considered. Limited use permits, licensing that does not expire for several years? I honestly would not be surprised if this becomes a hot topic in the future. As you stated, money is the issue, and if more people were riding nationally I am sure the government would want a piece of the pie! You mentioned other forms of recreational equipment. The cyclists being addressed in the bill in New York, are not recreational. This is their transportation, and the city wants to get paid. I don't think that this would be an issue for people who haul their bike to the trail in a vehicle. I think it would be looked at the same way that atv's and motorcycles are. I think you have raised an excellent discussion here and we should all be thinking about it.

  5. #5
    DSR
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    Seems pretty ridiculous to me. First, bikes represent a sliver of total road traffic in terms of numbers/volume. Second, a bike has effectively zero impact on a paved road, especially relative to any car, SUV, truck, etc. Third, my guess is that bikes account for a very small percentage of road accidents. So 1+2+3 = bikes and bike traffic have no significant impact on roads or traffic. And then factor in the positive environmental impact of cycling vs. driving (which is now also probably insignificant since the number of cyclists vs. drivers is pretty darn small). My understanding was that car registration fees were meant to help pay for their impact on the infrastructure and corresponding maintenance.

    Now if there was a proposed bike tag fee (county based) in exchange for the funding of an expansion and maintenance of local bike trails, I'd sign up to that. Free biking is great, but I'd gladly pay a nominal amount to fund more trails. Heck, I've paid $50+ a day (pre CO pass!) to help companies pay off the cost of turning an entire mountain into a series of 100+ ski runs. Trail-building projects are a drop in the bucket compared to that! I guess that's basically the theory at the state parks - Eldorado Springs, Golden Gate, etc. Anyway, back on topic, a bike road tax does seem outrageous. If you want to raise some money and encourage good cycling behavior, then ticket cyclists for disobeying traffic laws. S

  6. #6
    Stand back
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    That's insane

    They should be encouraging cyclists, not harrassing those who are already riding. Reckless riding endangers exactly who, anyway? Generally one person. No worse than all the motorcyclists who don't wear helmets.
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  7. #7
    No coast freeride.
    Reputation: mtnbike24_7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfields4013
    I think you have raised an excellent discussion here and we should all be thinking about it.
    That's exactally why I brought it up. Although it isn't an issue that directly effects us right now, it will...eventually. If we all go out there causing rukus on society, they are going to hate us even more.

    Proposing regulations on bikes is on the way and we need to be very cautious on how we represent our culture.
    Rock Pounder Racing

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    Steelheads for sale! Trunk of my buddies car at the corner of Colfax and Mississippi, or email him at snowskilz@hotmail.com. It's a freakin bargain!! (If you make your own bolts)

  8. #8
    No coast freeride.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbabuser
    They should be encouraging cyclists, not harrassing those who are already riding. Reckless riding endangers exactly who, anyway? Generally one person. No worse than all the motorcyclists who don't wear helmets.
    Reckless riders endanger themselves.

    If you put everyone in NYC in cars, then traffic up there would be even more worse, and pollution would quadruple.

    I may move back to NY when she is up for reelection.
    Rock Pounder Racing

    Sponsored by porn.

    Steelheads for sale! Trunk of my buddies car at the corner of Colfax and Mississippi, or email him at snowskilz@hotmail.com. It's a freakin bargain!! (If you make your own bolts)

  9. #9
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    I'm with 24_7!

    I totally agree with 24_7, it is on the way. DSR made an excellent point by stating the ZERO impact that we have on transportation infrastructure. That is why we would HAVE to get involved to make sure we get some benefit from it. New trails, bike lanes, something. Also, ticketing isn't a bad point either. If I screwed up and got a ticket, I would be happy to pay it if I knew the proceeds were going to benefit us in the long run. The problem is, without some sort of watchdog, that money would get diverted to other places. I guess the problem government would see, would be the fact that we do make up a miniscule number of users. Ticketing alone would not generate any significant money for them.

  10. #10
    Stand back
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    Will not happen

    Quote Originally Posted by rfields4013
    I totally agree with 24_7, it is on the way. DSR made an excellent point by stating the ZERO impact that we have on transportation infrastructure. That is why we would HAVE to get involved to make sure we get some benefit from it. New trails, bike lanes, something. Also, ticketing isn't a bad point either. If I screwed up and got a ticket, I would be happy to pay it if I knew the proceeds were going to benefit us in the long run. The problem is, without some sort of watchdog, that money would get diverted to other places. I guess the problem government would see, would be the fact that we do make up a miniscule number of users. Ticketing alone would not generate any significant money for them.
    Fees for ticketing cyclists going towards improved trails or paths? Now you are dreaming. The bill as written in NYC is solely to pacify bike haters. A minimum fee for any infraction of $100 with no language anywhere specifying what the income from these fines are to go towards. Yeah, sign us up.
    There is no way I want the police to have any more control over the things I do. Traffic rules were not created for bikes, they were created for cars. If we are to be expected to follow them, there need to be some changes. Ie: I cannot trigger a pressure sensitive stoplight on my bike. Is it fair that I should wait until a car comes before I can go thru the intersection if there is no traffic present? Also, bikes do not take up a space in the lane, we are expected to ride on the sides/ shoulder (with much honking and yelling to remind us if we forget), and cars go around us. Do we really need to wait our turn in line when approaching red lights? Is it really necessary to stop at stop signs when you are making a right turn and no traffic is present? There is a huge difference between operating a 2 ton vehicle which could endanger others and a self propelled 20-40lb vehicle that could only maybe endanger other cyclists or pedestrians.
    Golden Bike Park

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  11. #11
    No coast freeride.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbabuser
    There is a huge difference between operating a 2 ton vehicle which could endanger others and a self propelled 20-40lb vehicle that could only maybe endanger other cyclists or pedestrians.
    Well technically we are supposed to put our lives in danger on the shoulder so the mom talking on the cell phone taking her 9 kids to soccer practice isn't inconvinienced in the slightest. I mean, we would hate for them to be late.

    I would like to see a law passed that goes something like this: If you drive a car that gets less then 10 miles a gallon (ex. H2, Excursion...) then you can drive it...3 days a week. The other 4 days you have to use an enviromental form of transportation, whether it is a Hybrid Car, a bike, or a fvcking scooter. We are the most enviromental friendly out there, yet we are still being chastised for no apparent reason. I know a law like this would never be passed (if it does, i'm going to prison), but it just erks me to see someone have the blatent audacity to want to criminalize someone for riding a bike.

    Keep biking FREE. Vote 24_7 in 08!!!! (P.S. I oppose the damn Adventure Pass too. Been a huge opponent since I was 15)
    Rock Pounder Racing

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    Steelheads for sale! Trunk of my buddies car at the corner of Colfax and Mississippi, or email him at snowskilz@hotmail.com. It's a freakin bargain!! (If you make your own bolts)

  12. #12
    ride
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfields4013
    If we are going to expect to be allowed to use the road/street system and have the same rights as a motorist to be on it, why shouldn't we do our part to pay the taxes and support said road/street system?
    We already do. car licenses/wheel taxes do not alone pay for our infrastructure. DSR hit the nail on the head - all of the fees associated with cars and their taxation are to help defray the costs that they incur.

    Quote Originally Posted by rfields4013
    This is their transportation, and the city wants to get paid.
    This is the real issue. Politicians thinking about the next thing they can tax.
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