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Thread: Cameras at Apex

  1. #1
    Yappy little dog!
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    Cameras at Apex

    Disclaimer: I am writing this as a volunteer for JCOS, not as a BoD member of COMBA.

    I have heard back from JCOS and there is nothing to worry about. They are not using the cameras to spy on you or get your face and write you a ticket. Here is the official response:

    "While we do use cameras for wildlife purposes, the cameras at Apex are currently being used to monitor the effectiveness of our new management. They are NOT being used for any law enforcement activities. The monitoring team will be looking at things like types of users, direction of travel, user patterns (where are users going in the park) the effectiveness of the trail improvements, etc. Simple as that.

    The cameras were placed in discrete locations for a couple reasons, not the least of which is vandalism. One camera has already been stolen. We also try to camouflage things like trail counters as well, to fit in more with the environment."

    Please respect the right that JCOS can do this and please do not vandalize the County property. It only makes us look worse. We are making progress and I have heard a lot of good things from all users.
    Last edited by schnauzers; 06-21-2010 at 09:35 AM.

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    Disclaimer: it wasn't me. I was hiking at White Ranch to loosen up the aches from two days of Trestle

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    JCOS - How about being forthcoming with this stuff. We live in a surveillance state and when mountain biking you feel like you are escaping from that...well...used to.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wankel7
    JCOS - How about being forthcoming with this stuff. We live in a surveillance state and when mountain biking you feel like you are escaping from that...well...used to.
    I'm just volunteer, but I agree communication is necessary. Same point I raised with NTM trails. Without communication before things are put in place, it sends a bad message and pisses people off. I am working on letting them know that, but a positive approach from others would help greatly. Just email them and ask them to let you know when they are making changes before they happen. I think they want to do the right thing and many of these recent actions were the result of the former leadership.

  5. #5
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    I think the JCOS management plan for Apex is having the desired affect. I don't ride there anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schnauzers
    I'm just volunteer, but I agree communication is necessary. Same point I raised with NTM trails. Without communication before things are put in place, it sends a bad message and pisses people off. I am working on letting them know that, but a positive approach from others would help greatly. Just email them and ask them to let you know when they are making changes before they happen. I think they want to do the right thing and many of these recent actions were the result of the former leadership.
    Any information as to the date they were installed?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by TVC15
    Any information as to the date they were installed?
    That's all I was sent. I spoke with Ranger Dave (?) yesterday at White Ranch. He said that they have had cameras and counters there for a while.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by guacamole
    I think the JCOS management plan for Apex is having the desired affect. I don't ride there anymore.

    To be honest, I have spoken to many riders while out on patrol the past couple of months. The Apex discussion comes up a lot. I have not had any say that the management plan was as bad as they thought it would be. Personally, I don't know because I have not ridden there. I didn't even like riding there before the changes. Just not my favorite place.

    I'll be there tomorrow night and others should show up as well. It is JCOS "sare The Trails" night at Apex. Starts at 5:00.
    Last edited by schnauzers; 06-21-2010 at 12:51 PM.

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    Thanks for clarifying and getting the straight answer. That's kinda what I thought they were for, but I didn't want to stoke the conspiracy theorists.

    I agree that, given the volitility of everything apex, it woulda been good for JCOS to announce that as part of their plan. But otherwise, they do have the right to monitor the resources they manage.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y
    Disclaimer: it wasn't me. I was hiking at White Ranch to loosen up the aches from two days of Trestle
    I can vouch for this.

  11. #11
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    Take that statement in the OP, make a sign out of it, and post it at the trailhead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schnauzers
    To be honest, I have spoken to many riders while out on patrol the past couple of months. The Apex discussion comes up a lot. I have not had any say that the management plan was as bad as they thought it would be. Personally, I don't know because I have not ridden there. I didn't even like riding there before the changes. Just not my favorite place.

    I'll be there tomorrow night and others should show up as well. It is JCOS bike rights night at Apex. Starts at 5:00.

    You know what. I hated the plan at first, but now I can't wait to ride new trails and just ride there on even days. It doesn't bother me at all.

    Erik

  13. #13
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    Odd days are nice because its kinda empty.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedell99
    You know what. I hated the plan at first, but now I can't wait to ride new trails and just ride there on even days. It doesn't bother me at all.

    Erik
    Yes, the hikers only hike on even days now.

  15. #15
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    The only problem with the odd days is you can ride down Enchanted Forest. I always go over the top anyway.

    Erik

  16. #16
    zrm
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    Motion activated cameras are pretty common and helpful tools for wildlife surveys. Using them on trails to get an idea of user types gives information that simple counters can't. Not publicising it is also normal to prevent theft and vandalism.

  17. #17
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    Wow, I was afraid this might be some sort of Orwellian 1984 comes to mounting biking scenario... I am truly relieved to hear it's still only 1983

  18. #18
    MK_
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    So the moral of the story is that we need to learn how to ride backwards for the cameras so we appear to be traveling in the right direction...

    The silliest part of the JCOS plan is that all the bike restrictions for various trails fall on the same days; this causes increased congestion on the available trails and does nothing to improve the relationship between different user groups as the aggravation saved on some trails is dispensed with interest on the others.

    _MK
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    "No man goes before his time -- unless the boss leaves early."
    -- Marx, Groucho

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK_
    The silliest part of the JCOS plan is that all the bike restrictions for various trails fall on the same days; this causes increased congestion on the available trails and does nothing to improve the relationship between different user groups as the aggravation saved on some trails is dispensed with interest on the others.
    ...enough of this logical analysis and clear thought! we've got rules and signs now, brutha, so the problem has been solved.





  20. #20
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    how does one pick up and pay for the photos? Is there a website I can go order my mug shot? This is so cool.
    Golden Bike Park Group

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  21. #21
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    JCOS has asked for paranoia by posting signs saying their new trail rules are STRICTLY enforced. And since I've seen no rangers on odd days, I'd guess the cameras and helicopters have to be related somehow...
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndecentExposure
    how does one pick up and pay for the photos? Is there a website I can go order my mug shot? This is so cool.
    Why? You want to show off your Brozilian?
    Naysayers never apologize. Critics go to their grave thinking everyone else is wrong.
    ╭∩╮( º.º )╭∩╮

  23. #23
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    They need a control tower!!! YES!!! Bike Traffic Control! THAT is the ultimate safety.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y
    Why? You want to show off your Brozilian?
    Hey man, YOU were the one that made the Suggestion! Besides, it'll get all the dingle-berrys off meh a$$.
    Golden Bike Park Group

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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndecentExposure
    They need a control tower!!! YES!!! Bike Traffic Control! THAT is the ultimate safety.
    Will there be high power rifleson these towers?
    Naysayers never apologize. Critics go to their grave thinking everyone else is wrong.
    ╭∩╮( º.º )╭∩╮

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