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  1. #1
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    Best Tubes for the Front Range?

    Semi-serious question. Got a pinch flat at Apex. Pain in the ass. Anybody got a heavy duty tube they prefer? I know Performance actually makes some decent ones, but I dont think they have a heavy duty 26" tube with a Presta. Thoughts? I hate pinch flats, but dont want to hassle going tubeless yet.

  2. #2
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    Best Tubes for the Front Range?

    Hassling with tubeless has decreased my pinch flat issues from about 1 per every two rides, to a couple per year. YMMV.

    Also, tires with good sidewalls and proper air pressure are the key, not necessarily thicker tubes.
    The older I get, the faster I was.





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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Rizz View Post
    I hate pinch flats, but dont want to hassle going tubeless yet.
    I have found that not dealing pinch flats is far less of a hassle than going tubeless...
    I know that doesn't answer your question, sorry

  4. #4
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    How extensively have you tried tubeless? I ride 5x a week and also ride DH laps on my trail bike, I never get pinch flats and change tires (rear is an XC/AM tire, not DH) about every 6 months. Tubeless is the answer for the rocky, haggard terrain of CO.

    Gorilla tape = $3
    Stans sealant = $15

  5. #5
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    Best Tubes for the Front Range?

    To actually answer your question, most manufacturers make mid- and heavy-weight tubes. Finding presta valves might be a thing, but it can be done. A quick Google search for "heavy duty presta bicycle tube" revealed a couple options...


    http://www.kendatire.com/en/bicycle/...bicycle-tubes/
    http://bicyclesouth.com/product/cont...e-181931-1.htm

    Also try REI maybe? Their house brand might work. All said, I stand by my earlier assertion that tires with good sidewalls and proper pressure will make more of a difference.
    The older I get, the faster I was.





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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Full Trucker View Post
    ... tires with good sidewalls and proper air pressure are the key, not necessarily thicker tubes.
    ^^ This.

    Probably the worst thing about tubes is that in order to avoid pinching you have to boost the pressure up to where you are sub-optimal in terms of handling. And you really need to check it pretty often. I'm bad about that, I'll just grab a bike and go, and won't really notice that I'm low until my first corner. And unless it's really low I might not notice for a while.

    Pressure slowly leaks down out of tires, tubes or not. They aren't perfectly non-porous, even when they are perfect. But obviously you can get a tiny little cactus thorn or some other really small puncture and have a slow leak. Makes it lots more likely that you'll get low-ish pressure and pinch.

    Thick tubes are a total waste of money and weight. They pinch and puncture just as readily as normal, basic butyl tubes. When I was still running tubes I ran sealant. Lead-pipe heavy but it kept me from having trouble in that area almost without exception. They slow-leaked much less unless they got a really bad puncture, or if they got so old that the sealant dried up.

    Like almost everyone else who rides mtbs more than three times/year, I've gone to tubeless. You can still pinch a tubeless tire, and you still have to mind your pressure or you can burp out your air or whatever. But it's way less hassle than otherwise if you get yourself a basic compressor.

    One super-big downside to tubeless that I've realized in the last six months: if you cut a sidewall or pinch a tire badly enough that the sealant won't fix it, you get into a less fixable solution than with tubes. Meaning, you can put a tube in, but if the cut is bad enough to let the tube bulge out, a tire boot won't stick now because the sealant makes the inside of the casing too slimy. Friend of mine had to actually find a litter coke bottle and put a peice of plasic inside the tire to get home.

    If you put a tube into a tire that had stans, you won't be able to patch it if you puncture again later. Tube becomes too slimy, patch won't stick. So if you put a tube in you better hope that you don't pinch or pick up a thorn.

    Back in the tubes days, you could boot a cut sidewall, put in a fresh tube, and if you had a patch kit you could deal with as many subsequent punctures as you had patches. With tubeless you can much more quickly get to a game-over scenario where you're walking.
    Tom Purvis - Salida, CO - http://teamvelveeta.tom-purvis.com

    "I like my wimmen like I like my beer--cold and bitter!"

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Full Trucker View Post
    To actually answer your question, most manufacturers make mid- and heavy-weight tubes...
    My assertion would be, if you're going to bother with the weight and expense of a heavier tube, do a normal thickness tube with slime or other sealant. More robust, probably no heavier, and definitely more supple. Tires with those thick tubes ride like they're made of wood.
    Tom Purvis - Salida, CO - http://teamvelveeta.tom-purvis.com

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomP View Post
    One super-big downside to tubeless that I've realized in the last six months: if you cut a sidewall or pinch a tire badly enough that the sealant won't fix it, you get into a less fixable solution than with tubes. Meaning, you can put a tube in, but if the cut is bad enough to let the tube bulge out, a tire boot won't stick now because the sealant makes the inside of the casing too slimy. Friend of mine had to actually find a litter coke bottle and put a piece of plastic inside the tire to get home.
    An old trick is to use one or two dollar bills depending on the size of the slice. Should be enough to get you back to the point of origin. Nice thing is dollar bills are light, easy to carry and don't cost much.

  9. #9
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    I vote tubeless, but if you're totally against it, Maxxis makes a "freeride" tube that sits between a normal one and a DH tube.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuglio View Post
    You guys suck im all bummed now

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomP View Post
    Like almost everyone else who rides mtbs more than three times/year, I've gone to tubeless.
    That's not only obnoxious (and not usually your style from what I have seen here), it's wrong.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwhan View Post
    That's not only obnoxious (and not usually your style from what I have seen here), it's wrong.
    Yeah, that was a little harsh. And elitist-sounding. Mea culpa.
    Tom Purvis - Salida, CO - http://teamvelveeta.tom-purvis.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigSteve in CO View Post
    I vote tubeless, but if you're totally against it, Maxxis makes a "freeride" tube that sits between a normal one and a DH tube.
    Thanks for that suggestion. Looks like that might be the ticket for right now.

    I'll probably go tubeless eventually, but dont have the time to figure out the sealing/sealant thing right now. Thanks all!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomP View Post
    Yeah, that was a little harsh. And elitist-sounding. Mea culpa.
    Best Tubes for the Front Range?-image.png
    Quote Originally Posted by Hernando Gutierrez
    The only thing you have to figure out is don't fall down. To keep riding the bike.

  14. #14
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    Anyone used this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hernando Gutierrez
    The only thing you have to figure out is don't fall down. To keep riding the bike.

  15. #15
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    Most shops have thorn resistant tubes. If they don't already have sealant in them, they can usually put some in. Having said that, none of them really protect very well against pinch flats - slime, true goo, even stans won't seal a pinch on the inside of a tube very well or at all. I did read somewhere that latex tubes are more resistant to pinch flats than butyl tubes....don't know if that's true or not but it makes some sense.

    Tubeless, although a more of a hassle in the garage, rarely leaves you stuck out on the trail unless you are running ww tires with very thin sidewalls. Save those for race day.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaycastlerock View Post
    Anyone used this?
    Yes. Fail. Would not stick.

    I'm interested in some of the other solutions. I know a guy from AZ who uses the plug style kits and then stitches up the tear with dental floss. Haven't tried it.

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    Tom Purvis - Salida, CO - http://teamvelveeta.tom-purvis.com

    "I like my wimmen like I like my beer--cold and bitter!"

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomP View Post
    Yes. Fail. Would not stick.

    I'm interested in some of the other solutions. I know a guy from AZ who uses the plug style kits and then stitches up the tear with dental floss. Haven't tried it.
    Interesting. When I was running the thin Specialized tires my bike came with I had a nasty cut on the rear tire. I used the tin foil my sandwich was wrapped in and it worked pretty well. Got me from Lennys back to the Indian creek trail head.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hernando Gutierrez
    The only thing you have to figure out is don't fall down. To keep riding the bike.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomP View Post
    Yes. Fail. Would not stick.

    I'm interested in some of the other solutions. I know a guy from AZ who uses the plug style kits and then stitches up the tear with dental floss. Haven't tried it.

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    I just happened to google this Saturday after a nice puncture...

    Tech Tuesday - Three Ways to Save A Leaky Tubeless Tire - Pinkbike

  19. #19
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    What exactly about going tubeless is a hassle?
    2 Hands Working Do More Than 1000 Hands Praying

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Rizz View Post
    Got a pinch flat at Apex. Pain in the ass.
    Question for ya: did this happen yesterday 7/30 ? If so, what time were you riding?
    The older I get, the faster I was.





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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by provin1327 View Post
    What exactly about going tubeless is a hassle?
    Sometimes it's not.

    Sometimes it is.

    That's part of it, there's the question about whether the particular tire and/or rim and/or rimstrip-valve setup is going to work right. Uncertainty is a hassle. Walk out of a bike shop with a $60 tire not knowing whether it's going to work for you...

    Some tire beads are too loose, some ridiculously tight. Some just don't seem to be willing to seat and/or seal. Some blow right off the rim as soon as you pressure them up.

    I had a Continental X King Protection, seemed like a really nice tire. $60-ish. I put it on a tubeless-specific rim, a Bontrager Duster. It seated and sealed. I left it for a while with lots of pressure, probably 60 lbs or so for a little while then went and rode it. I let the pressure down into the low 20's and it started losing air around the bead as soon as I did any cornering on it. Just seemed like that was the way it was going to work.

    So I tried it on my ghetto setup, on a Mavic TN 719 that has worked flawlessly with other tires. Same deal. I tried everything I could think of--leaving it aired up hard, riding it for a couple rides on the road aired up hard (dangerous to trail ride that way, no cornering). Just wouldn't hold air when it was at riding pressure, only when it was pumped up to 45+ psi.

    I wound up putting a tube in it on the back of my SS just to use it up (cut the sidewall badly after a few rides--sh!tcanned it after less than a month).

    I blew a WTB tire right off the rim.

    I have had VERY good luck with Specialized tires. I have several wheels built with Duster rims with factory tubeless rimstrip and valve. And I have the one TN 719 that I set up with the yellow Stan's rim tape and some stems that were shipping in the owner's manual bag of Specialized bikes a couple years ago. I have never had any trouble getting them to mount right up. The Duster rims are tight, and I've had to put some huge pressure in a couple tires to get them to seat (part of the bead will be buried into the spoke bed and will only pop into place so that the tire is aligned properly after putting over 60 PSI into them).

    If you get low pressure and unseat a tire out on the trail, it's often difficult or impossible to get it to re-seat. CO2 will usually do it, but if you have spilled out any of the sealant it probably will lose air again.
    Tom Purvis - Salida, CO - http://teamvelveeta.tom-purvis.com

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  22. #22
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    Mtn Goat showed me these. I ripped a sidewall on my first ride and repaired it at home and was able to ride the tire until it wore out. Worth every penny!!!!

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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrniceguy42 View Post
    How extensively have you tried tubeless? I ride 5x a week and also ride DH laps on my trail bike, I never get pinch flats and change tires (rear is an XC/AM tire, not DH) about every 6 months. Tubeless is the answer for the rocky, haggard terrain of CO.

    Gorilla tape = $3
    Stans sealant = $15
    You forgot valves...unless you're cutting apart a tube.
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  24. #24
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    Tubeless has made riding much more hastle-free IMHO. I haven't flatted in like 6 months and I ride 4-5 times a week.
    I'm bored and at work or else I would be riding

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Full Trucker View Post
    Question for ya: did this happen yesterday 7/30 ? If so, what time were you riding?
    Yesterday morning around 6:30am.

  26. #26
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    What are tubes?
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomP View Post
    Sometimes it's not.

    Sometimes it is.

    That's part of it, there's the question about whether the particular tire and/or rim and/or rimstrip-valve setup is going to work right. Uncertainty is a hassle. Walk out of a bike shop with a $60 tire not knowing whether it's going to work for you...

    Some tire beads are too loose, some ridiculously tight. Some just don't seem to be willing to seat and/or seal. Some blow right off the rim as soon as you pressure them up.

    I had a Continental X King Protection, seemed like a really nice tire. $60-ish. I put it on a tubeless-specific rim, a Bontrager Duster. It seated and sealed. I left it for a while with lots of pressure, probably 60 lbs or so for a little while then went and rode it. I let the pressure down into the low 20's and it started losing air around the bead as soon as I did any cornering on it. Just seemed like that was the way it was going to work.

    So I tried it on my ghetto setup, on a Mavic TN 719 that has worked flawlessly with other tires. Same deal. I tried everything I could think of--leaving it aired up hard, riding it for a couple rides on the road aired up hard (dangerous to trail ride that way, no cornering). Just wouldn't hold air when it was at riding pressure, only when it was pumped up to 45+ psi.

    I wound up putting a tube in it on the back of my SS just to use it up (cut the sidewall badly after a few rides--sh!tcanned it after less than a month).

    I blew a WTB tire right off the rim.

    I have had VERY good luck with Specialized tires. I have several wheels built with Duster rims with factory tubeless rimstrip and valve. And I have the one TN 719 that I set up with the yellow Stan's rim tape and some stems that were shipping in the owner's manual bag of Specialized bikes a couple years ago. I have never had any trouble getting them to mount right up. The Duster rims are tight, and I've had to put some huge pressure in a couple tires to get them to seat (part of the bead will be buried into the spoke bed and will only pop into place so that the tire is aligned properly after putting over 60 PSI into them).

    If you get low pressure and unseat a tire out on the trail, it's often difficult or impossible to get it to re-seat. CO2 will usually do it, but if you have spilled out any of the sealant it probably will lose air again.
    There's a ton of wisdom in this post. And is kinda why I'm still running tubes in my non-UST specific rims.

    And as a famous dude I know once said, "... I mostly run tubeless, which works 97% of the time. The other 3% can be a real f***ing b**ch, though. Make you wanna kick puppies and throw tools, in that order."

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Rizz View Post
    Yesterday morning around 6:30am.
    Ah, copy that. Thought I might have seen ya... I offered a tube to a fella walking down the gut (nearly to the bottom) later that morning. He declined, saying he was nearly to the bottom and din't wanna hold us up.



    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles View Post
    Make you wanna kick puppies and throw tools, in that order.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorro View Post
    What are tubes?
    They're the guys that sang White Punks on Dope.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuglio View Post
    You guys suck im all bummed now

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomP View Post
    Sometimes it's not.

    Sometimes it is.
    I guess since I have only set up one set without any problems it didn't occur to me that there were tires that didn't seat properly. I run a Conti X King and Conti Mountain King on the stock Weinnman Disc Bulls that came with my Airborne Guardian. They sealed first shot with Gorlla tape and Stans, plus they ride great. I still do carry tubes just in case I pop a bead somehow or split a sidwall, but I don't think I will ever put them back in unless I have to to get off the trail
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomP View Post
    Yes. Fail. Would not stick.
    x2 if this is the kit with super glue.
    Was trying to seal up countless goat head holes and the glue dripped down onto the tire bead then hardened up. Instant leak. Tire became tube only.

  32. #32
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    Since I am bored on a Friday at work and dreaming of riding... I'll weigh it.

    The best tubes for the Front Range are the ones you don't buy and don't use.

    Save your time and money and learn to go Ghetto tubeless with gorilla tape and stan's sealant.. Never looked back after doing it 2 years ago.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hernando Gutierrez
    The only thing you have to figure out is don't fall down. To keep riding the bike.

  34. #34
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    Just remember to add sealant on occasion especially with non TR tires. Yesterday on the cross bike I had to break out a tube, been so long I could not remember my last flat. Rear tire goes low, figured I ran over a thorn or something and tire lost air as it sealed up. Broke out the pump and refilled tire, mile down the trail and tire is near flat. Nothing wrong with the tire, it just decided to stop holding air, no sealant and a nice stan's booger

  35. #35
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    And you still have to carry a spare tube incase you get a flat on the tubeless. Not to mention the mess of latex all over the bike, yourself, and the trail when that tire does go.

    Tubeless, meh. Not worth it for me. Better riding technique, tires with stiff sidewalls, and proper inflation, are key to not flatting with any tire.

    Nothing like seeing latex boogers on the side of trails.

  36. #36
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    I'm pretty sure having to carry a spare tube IS NOT a knock against tubeless. I hate seeing any trash on the trail, I will pu and put in my pack, including my stan's booger yesterday.

    I've been doing the tubeless thing for 10 years, nasty goat heads here in the Springs, would not go back. I'd rather put in a little extra effort up front and ride the tire till the treads are gone with no flat, unless I forget to add sealant Sure you can rip a sidewall but with the right tire choice that rarely happens anymore with today's TR tires.

  37. #37
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    tl/dr: to each their own

    Realistically, running tubeless would require two spare tubes; just in case. The entire process is a hassle. For me, it's not worth it. I can set up 4 or 5 wheels with tubes in the time it takes to set-up a tire tubeless. Every ride I've done in the last three years I've donated a tube or waited on a riding partner that flatted their tubeless set-up. Usually, from running pressures too low, or dried sealant.

    /personalopinion

  38. #38
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    I would agree that tubeless done wrong can be more of a pain. That's why tubeless gets a bad rap tho, cause of folks like your riding buddies who think any tire can be used for tubeless and/or run stupid low pressures. It's usually the weight weenies who think they can run a 600g tire tubeless and be fine, or done a complete ghetto setup. The biggest benefit to tubeless is no flats, not running low pressures or saving weight. My setups are always about the same weight as a standard tire/tube, and I usually run 20-30psi which still gives better traction IMO.

    Not trying to sell ya on tubeless just stating facts

  39. #39
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    I used to get pinch flats all the time - twice a ride was not uncommon. Increasing the tire pressure made the bike ride like poo. I could never find a good balance.

    So I went tubeless with big heavy DH tires and never looked back. It was so reliable that I stopped carrying a pump and spare tube. I only had to walk out once in two years when my rear tire sliced open on a rock.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  40. #40
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    A good single ply TR tire like the Maxxis Exo stuff is plenty reliable as well, but I don't understand why anyone would go out without at least a spare tube and pump/CO2.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tickle View Post
    ... but I don't understand why anyone would go out without at least a spare tube and pump/CO2.
    Because it wasn't needed. All the trails I (used) to ride on the front range were straight up (no risk of a pinch flat) and then straight down. Walking out just wasn't a big deal the one time I had to.

    On longer and/or flatter rides I would carry a spare tube and a pump.

    Hell, I don't even carry a tube or spoons when I go off on my dirt bike. I've hit rocks hard enough to dent the front rim and just about toss me off the bike, but the HD tubes were OK. 160 hours and no flats.

    Tools and spares add weight quickly. I only carry what I feel is needed and just deal with it if things go wrong. It's not like walking out will kill ya.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve71 View Post
    I used to get pinch flats all the time - twice a ride was not uncommon. Increasing the tire pressure made the bike ride like poo. I could never find a good balance.
    Nevegals!

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve71 View Post
    It's not like walking out will kill ya.
    It would totally harsh my buzz tho

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomP View Post
    My assertion would be, if you're going to bother with the weight and expense of a heavier tube, do a normal thickness tube with slime or other sealant. More robust, probably no heavier, and definitely more supple. Tires with those thick tubes ride like they're made of wood.
    This has been my solution, and it's been successful thus far. Eventually tubeless is on the agenda, but that won't happen until a new wheel set.
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  45. #45
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    I'd be interested in knowing why The Rizz feels tubeless is a hassle?

    I thought the same things, and then last years I went tubeless (Stan's) on both my All Mountain and XC bikes. The AM sees the ski sloops 5-6 times a years and I have yet to have ANY issues? I travel all over Colorado and sometimes I am in super deep (several hours to walk out deep). The key to tubeless is making sure that the rims are compatible and getting a good clean seal. Tubeless has actually saved my ass a couple of times.

    In addressing patching a tube after it's been in a tubeless system - simple - I carry a couple of alcohol wipes with my first-aid kit and these clean the sealant off plenty to patch.

    The issues of sidewall rips and tears are not necessary defined by having tubes or not - those kinds of issues are. Rey problematic wither way and should not be factored in to the OP's original question - except for the benefits of helping with pinch flats.
    Regards,
    Chris Sgaraglino

    Visit me at:
    My Life on Two Wheels

  46. #46
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    So what do you guys think about running Maxxis DHF/DHRII Exo tires tubeless?

    DT EX500 rear rim, Salsa Delgado Disc front rim.... The Salsa is on Stan's "Do Not Attempt" list, I think the diameter is a little on the small side, bead is too loose and maybe the rim just isn't the right shape?

    I could do just the rear tire, seems like that's where the biggest benefit would be anyway...

    TIA.
    .




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  47. #47
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    Get some Bontie Rhythm rim strips...? They have molded-in bead lock channels.

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  48. #48
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    I run Kenda Excavators on my DT Swiss EX500's with Stan's strips and sealant. I can mount them up with a floor pump easily. I don't know about the Maxxis tires, but I do know it made my ride WAY better.

  49. #49
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    Thanks, I am thinking this is the year to try it. In the past I have found no rear tire I was ever happy with and I go through them pretty fast, but the new DHR II is really good and I can see sticking with it...

    I did more research on the new Maxxis EXO tires and they are now tubeless ready so converting the rear should be no problem, except the tire is near worn out so I will wait 'til I get a new one.
    .




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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by davec113 View Post
    So what do you guys think about running Maxxis DHF/DHRII Exo tires tubeless?
    That's what I have on my Covert 29, installed them over a year ago and have not touched them since, well except to add air of course. Rode all over the Springs and a few days at Trestle. They are on Flow EX rims with gorilla tape and stans. Great combo!

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