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Thread: Apex Survey

  1. #1
    Bad Andy
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    Apex Survey

    I am surprised I have not seen anything about this on this forum.
    If it was, and I missed it, forgive me.
    I got an email (from the COMBA email list) that mentioned this survey.
    It's not the best survey I've ever seen, but it is probably important that we mountain bikers take part in it.
    Just follow the directions from the link:
    http://comba.org/ApexSurvey/

  2. #2
    rubber side down
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    COMBA sends emails out? No way! Been a member for 3 years, never received one. Are you pulling my leg?

  3. #3
    Bad Andy
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    It's the 1st email I've seen, and I signed up for their email list at that big meeting at Taj with COMBA and JCOS.

  4. #4
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    it's a trick. The survey is really a math test

  5. #5
    Your retarded
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    Quote Originally Posted by nOOby
    it's a trick. The survey is really a math test
    nOOby's right. It wouldn't let me register because I kept failing the math question at the bottom. Stupid math.
    A trail thatís too difficult wouldnít exist because itíd never be used. But, trails can exist thatíre too difficult for you.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickle
    nOOby's right. It wouldn't let me register because I kept failing the math question at the bottom. Stupid math.
    dudes. calculator. problem solved.

  7. #7
    Your retarded
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    Quote Originally Posted by russman
    dudes. calculator. problem solved.
    The only thing calculators are good for is spelling "BOOBIES" with 5318008.
    A trail thatís too difficult wouldnít exist because itíd never be used. But, trails can exist thatíre too difficult for you.

  8. #8
    post-ride specialist
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    the math test is a proxy for your political leanings
    Since when did Need have anything to do with this?

  9. #9
    Slopestyle Rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickle
    The only thing calculators are good for is spelling "BOOBIES" with 5318008.
    Flip the calculator upside down and punch in "BOOBLESS" 55378008

    But most men will agree that boobies are better than boobless. Nickle for the win

  10. #10
    Slopestyle Rider
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    Double post. And there is nothing worse than a stupid double post "Hey look at me... I posted about boobies on a calculator TWICE "

  11. #11
    enlightened.
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    Some of the survey answers are highly restrictive; I wish there were a comment box for each question.

    This survey is making me ill; I'm dismayed at the thought of any change to Apex.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by athalliah
    <snip>
    This survey is making me ill; I'm dismayed at the thought of any change to Apex.
    I answered the survey questions to reflect that.

  13. #13
    Your retarded
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    Quote Originally Posted by athalliah
    Some of the survey answers are highly restrictive; I wish there were a comment box for each question.
    I thought the same thing. As a COMBA member (who hasn't lived in JeffCo in 8 years or EVER ridden their trails), I was a little frustrated with some of the pigeonholed options.
    A trail thatís too difficult wouldnít exist because itíd never be used. But, trails can exist thatíre too difficult for you.

  14. #14
    Living the High Life
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    I never got the email for my gmail account, I guess I got 6+1 wrong.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithnu
    I never got the email for my gmail account, I guess I got 6+1 wrong.
    You got off easy. This was my question...
    A trail thatís too difficult wouldnít exist because itíd never be used. But, trails can exist thatíre too difficult for you.

  16. #16
    enlightened.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickle
    I thought the same thing. As a COMBA member (who hasn't lived in JeffCo in 8 years or EVER ridden their trails), I was a little frustrated with some of the pigeonholed options.
    No kidding. As someone who doesn't have conflict issues on Apex, I'd am dismayed that I'm forced to answer a question based on the assumption that there is an issue to be addressed by policy change.

    CoMBA, sincerely hope you're listening to your constituency here.

  17. #17
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    Nice equation. y = 0.303 x 0.606^(t^2) x 1/ t where t is greater than zero.

    But I can't add apparently.

    I registered with my work email and took the survey. I'm not real fond of hikers always bikes sometimes

    A DH trail further west would be nice.
    Last edited by Ithnu; 11-12-2008 at 10:10 AM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithnu
    A DH trail further west would be nice.
    That was the best option, IMO. The thing that frustrated me the most was that I got the impression that they are looking into some form of stricter rules as the solution for a problem that is not a direct result of lax rules; it's really an issue of to many users on too little space. The solution that would mitigate the conflict issue most effectively would be to provide more trail to all users. Distribute the masses, and the frequency and severity of user conflicts will drop while increasing the number of options that users have to trail. That option should be the primary focus, not increasing the strictness of the rules and decreasing access. But hey, I'm not a doctor.
    A trail thatís too difficult wouldnít exist because itíd never be used. But, trails can exist thatíre too difficult for you.

  19. #19
    Bad Andy
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    Agreed on the comment boxes.
    I went ahead and threw in my extra comments in one of the 2 comment boxes that were in the survey. They weren't asking for comments that I gave them in those places, but since there wasn't anywhere else...

  20. #20
    enlightened.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithnu
    Nice equation.

    I registered with my work email and took the survey. I'm not real fond of hikers always bikes sometimes

    A DH trail further west would be nice.
    While I agree with this point, I don't think that the question "Do you think that a DH area 20 minutes west of Apex would alleviate conflict issues on Apex?" can be answered by a simple "yes", "no", "somewhat" or "There is not great enough a conflict to justify said DH area".

    Could we use a DH area west of Apex? Well, yeah, any new trail system would help alleviate user density. Why does there need to be a conflict to catalyze the creation of a new trail? As population grows there will be a correlating demand on trail access on the Front Range by all user groups. If CoMBA is using conflict to leverage the creation of a new trail system to the west, which by the way the survey is structured, sounds to be the case, please count me out.

  21. #21
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    Yeah, not a lot of wiggle room on the answer choices. At least there is talk of a purpose built DH area though. I wonder if that's in reference to the proposed area in Idaho Springs?

  22. #22
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    I agree with pretty much everything said in this thread. The common theme in all the survey questions seems to be that MB'ers cause problems and need to be regulated/punished. Bottom line, we in the MB community need to police ourselves and go out of our way to be courteous to hikers. I'm not a downhiller, so it's a little easier for me to just slow down and/or stop for hikers.

    We all need to participate in the survey and let our voice be heard.

    My greatest fear is that we will have to be licensed. I can't imagine what a CF the "basic skills" test (or whatever they called it) would be. The last thing we need is more government, more government intervention or more regulation.
    What, me worry?

  23. #23
    DWF
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    That survey....ooofda.

    Learnin's hard.
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  24. #24
    Rolling
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithnu
    Nice equation. y = 0.303 x 0.606^(t^2) x 1/ t where t is greater than zero.

    .

    hmmm....are you sure?


    I'm still waiting for the email from CoMBA

  25. #25
    Slopestyle Rider
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    Surveys are real stupid dumb. New trails of any form are real good and nice cool. Bring on more trailz. Trailz iz good like cheezeburgerz.

  26. #26
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    I was talking to Darren up at Push last night about trails in the fort collins area. FCNA seems to have the right idea when it comes to user conflict. If they take trails away from bikers they will usually give something back, like access to a different area for building etc.

  27. #27
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    Listen! it's a survey

    don't read too much into this folks...

    Quote Originally Posted by athalliah
    Some of the survey answers are highly restrictive; I wish there were a comment box for each question.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nickle
    I was a little frustrated with some of the pigeonholed options.
    um, has that not always been the case w/ just about any survey? i despised multiple-choice tests in school for this very reason. but by nature, simple surveys like this need to have restrictive answers so that trends can be extrapolated... if every answer needed to be prefaced w/ a comment then it makes it hard to compare results from the whole sample.


    Quote Originally Posted by athalliah
    This survey is making me ill; I'm dismayed at the thought of any change to Apex.
    indeed. that is why COMBA is trying to take a proactive approach, instead of waiting for the day that JCOS may decide to do something up there and force us to be reactive.

    . . .

    i hate surveys. but i actually don't think this one is too bad (and i wasn't directly involved in its creation). it's fairly neutral, in as much as it could be given the info we're after.

    give it a chance and answer it honestly. the results might teach us something useful.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by athalliah
    As someone who doesn't have conflict issues on Apex
    wait a minute... weren't you the one smacked in the head by a bike, after crashing and getting hurt, trying to get out of the way of an impatient CX rider coming down the trail at apex??

    kidding aside, i think the survey gives ample opportunity to indicate that you don't believe there is conflict there. that's a valid point, shared by many. for those who do see conflict, it also gives some options and asks for feedback.

  29. #29
    enlightened.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotdirt
    um, has that not always been the case w/ just about any survey? i despised multiple-choice tests in school for this very reason. but by nature, simple surveys like this need to have restrictive answers so that trends can be extrapolated... if every answer needed to be prefaced w/ a comment then it makes it hard to compare results from the whole sample.
    That's the problem, is that it forces trends that may not necessary represent to voices of those surveyed. I didn't agree with the choices but in order to submit my reply, had to chose something I didn't entirely agree with. There was no "additional comments" box available to even air these grievances.

    Quote Originally Posted by gotdirt
    indeed. that is why COMBA is trying to take a proactive approach, instead of waiting for the day that JCOS may decide to do something up there and force us to be reactive.
    Fair enough, but your survey leads one to believe otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by gotdirt
    wait a minute... weren't you the one smacked in the head by a bike, after crashing and getting hurt, trying to get out of the way of an impatient CX rider coming down the trail at apex??
    It was an accident, he certainly didn't mean to hit me in the head and I in no way saw that as a "conflict". People seriously need to get over this sense of entitlement on trails; they don't belong to any single user group but to us all.

  30. #30
    MFin' Princess
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotdirt
    simple surveys like this need to have restrictive answers so that trends can be extrapolated... if every answer needed to be prefaced w/ a comment then it makes it hard to compare results from the whole sample.
    Understood. And as a person who just can't seem to keep her trap shut, lemme tell you I appreciated that the two comments sections ya'll did provide had no character limit. Weeeee!

    Quote Originally Posted by gotdirt
    indeed. that is why COMBA is trying to take a proactive approach, instead of waiting for the day that JCOS may decide to do something up there and force us to be reactive.
    Way to go! And thanks much!

    Quote Originally Posted by gotdirt
    give it a chance and answer it honestly. the results might teach us something useful.
    Indeed. And done. And remember to send the link onto all your friends to make sure as much information and feedback as possible is collected.

    PS: Remember to use the Comment Boxes to their fullest potential

  31. #31
    MFin' Princess
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    double post

  32. #32
    MK_
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    I go to centennial cone more than once a year, but I don't qualify for monthly, neither. Have I been inconvenienced by the alternate usage? Hard to say. It it what it is. I don't typically ride up and down Apex nor come from Chimney Gulch. I typically do whatever, just make sure I come down Enchanted Forrest at last once.

    What do you mean by have I experienced conflict? Do you mean has there been oncoming traffic? Leashless dogs are the worst. Those should be banned. Control your animals, people! Etiquette! There should be no uphill traffic at Enchanted Forest, and above all, no picnics in the middle of trail! WTF are people thinking? Education is the most important thing, not policing. Look where our government has gotten us with their penitentiary system.

    It's a frustrating survey, as pointed out above.

    _MK

    Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not just surrounded by a*holes

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotdirt
    indeed. that is why COMBA is trying to take a proactive approach, instead of
    Look, not to rain on this COMBA love fest, but it was recently explicitly explained to me that COMBA is NOT an advocacy group...or it is, but doesn't want to act like one. Just ask TCV15 about that. So COMBA is going to try to take a proactive approach...to do what? For me, all this is doing is gathering data for Jeffco on COMBA's dime. Then, Jeffco will do what they will do with the data, and Apex, and COMBA will take it, because remember...they are not an advocacy group. Remember all the momentum the August meeting at Jeffco generated? Not a damned thing happened. What's up with that?

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK_
    I go to centennial cone more than once a year, but I don't qualify for monthly, neither.
    so pick a response that is closest. we're not gonna hold you to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by MK_
    Have I been inconvenienced by the alternate usage? Hard to say. It it what it is.
    so what is it? you have or you haven't.

    Quote Originally Posted by MK_
    I don't typically ride up and down Apex nor come from Chimney Gulch.
    um, so i'm no expert, but i believe those are the only 2 choices for access. pick one. if you're truly 50/50, pick one... again, no one is checking up on your answers.

    Quote Originally Posted by MK_
    What do you mean by have I experienced conflict? Do you mean has there been oncoming traffic? Leashless dogs are the worst. Those should be banned.
    if you've had a leashless dog interrupt your ride, then i'd venture that qualifies as "conflict" (though thankfully not much of one). if you don't care, then you don't care (but it sounds like you care).

    Quote Originally Posted by MK_
    There should be no uphill traffic at Enchanted Forest, and above all, no picnics in the middle of trail!
    sounds like some valid comments.



    again, let's not make this harder than it has to be.


  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by russman
    For me, all this is doing is gathering data for Jeffco on COMBA's dime. Then, Jeffco will do what they will do with the data . . .
    okay, i'm gonna need a couple days to truly respond to this, but for the short-term, this is a COMBA survey... who says we're sharing our data w/ jeffco?

    it helps us to get a gauge on the constituency (members or not). if 97% of respondents say they prefer alternate day usage, then maybe we've got some soul searching to do on our pro-"multi-use" policy, eh??



  36. #36
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    I'm totally in agreement w/h.. uhhh Athalliah on this. I also felt pigeon holed on these answers, that there was a predetermined "mtbers are bad" feel to this. Nor did I feel that it allowed us to express alternate ideas to the biker day/hiker day scenario. Look at it this way, if all the jeffco trails go biker day/hiker day and all biker days are even, like at Centennial, when are we gonna be able to ride? and talk about over - crowding!!! (not trying to shoot ya down, T)

    Oddly enough, the only controversies I've had on Apex was with some out o state dude with his dog off leash and I almost ran over the poor little thing! And from a fellow mtber who was obviously a weekend warrior who refused to yield to uphill climber (me).

    Actually, talked w/a Jeffco ranger right after I got this survey and according to him, they aren't seeing any problems over at Apex. He WAS ticketing hikers on biker day at Centenninal and was asking questions regarding that. He said there were NO PLANS to institute the bd/hd anywhere else.....

    uhmmmm, just saying...
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  37. #37
    Moosehead
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    guys, it's others who feel MTBR's are "bad" - primarily hikers, equestrians, and perhaps bordering residents (ie picture rock). even bikers don't like to get blown off the trail by fellow bikers. meanwhile, jeffco accommodates one of the largest population densities in a pretty damn nice network of trails.

    worst case, we completely lose MTB access to certain trails, see trails get sanitized, and become overly regulated by jeffco. best case, we perhaps gain MTB specific trail(s), see more progressive bike friendly trail maintenance and features, and get recognized for what we have grown to become - the majority user group or customer of the jeffco trail system.

    one of the primary objectives of COMBA is to support trail advocacy expressly for MTBR's and proactively seek to obtain the above and other numerous benefits for bikers. another objective is to protect the trail access and rights we already have, whether reactionary or otherwise. meanwhile, we beyotch when COMBA seemingly is quiet or subtle, and then also complain when there is more overt and thoughtful efforts on our behalf.

    this survey and COMBA needs our input and great ideas to succeed. beyond the few public forums over the years, i can't remember when or if MTBR's were actually asked for our organized input on Jeffco trail policy.

    bring it. please don't let format or semantics get in your way, and if you got the need, squeeze specific thoughts into the two open comment boxes.
    Last edited by moosehead; 11-12-2008 at 11:07 PM.

  38. #38
    MFin' Princess
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetigirl
    I'm totally in agreement w/h.. uhhh Athalliah on this. I also felt pigeon holed on these answers, that there was a predetermined "mtbers are bad" feel to this. Nor did I feel that it allowed us to express alternate ideas to the biker day/hiker day scenario. Look at it this way, if all the jeffco trails go biker day/hiker day and all biker days are even, like at Centennial, when are we gonna be able to ride? and talk about over - crowding!!! (not trying to shoot ya down, T)
    The problem w/alternate days at Apex is that it would just divert the mtb traffic to nearer trails (MW, Chimney, Falcon), create artificial overcrowding there, and predictably conflicts would the increase there. And guess what the remedy would be? Alternate Days in even more parks, which ultimately amounts to a loss of use for mountain bikers. It's a BAD idea. And gets worse for us every time it's implemented in another park. I don't support it in the least.

    One option that was surprisingly was listed in the survey .... JCOS designating Apex a MTB Only Park -- now that I would support! As a good will gesture and to simply level the access we lost when they closed Reynolds to bikes. That seems reasonable, fair, and would certainly eliminate most of the confict. Funny that notion seems so completely outlandish, doesn't it?! Yet it seems so completely reasonable to exclude us summarily from Reynolds Park?! That only highlights how inferior we are considered as a user group; despite being the single largest group, and regardless of the enormous generosity our user group shows JCOS through considerable volunteer efforts.

    But in general, I think any and all of JCOS management decisions should fully supporting the spirit and doctrine of multi-use, and absolutely ensure that all user groups are considered and honored and managed equally. JCOS should manage conflict problem AREAS, with site-specific solutions and visitor education. Period.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by moosehead
    this survey and COMBA needs our input and great ideas to succeed. beyond the few public forums over the years, i can't remember when or if MTBR's were actually asked for our organized input on Jeffco trail policy.

    bring it. please don't let format or semantics get in your way, and if you got the need, squeeze specific thoughts into the two open comment boxes.
    Agreed. And hola, moosehead!

    My last thought in this thread: I believe that the high level of conflict seen on JCOS trails is rooted in its fundamental flaw of visitor management, whereby JCOS puts ALL onus of yielding responsibility onto the inferior trail user based solely on a triangle hierachy. It's insufficient, and it's conflict creating.

    Think about it. Doing so eliminates all responsibilty from a superior park user to act safely and courteously to those below him on the totem pole; condones all irresponsibility they may demonstrate, creating unsafe situations for others and allowing no recourse for inferior users; fosters a feeling of entitlement in superior users' minds, and ultimately and automatically intensifies hostility towards "inferior" user groups.

    This basis of visitor managment creates conflict, in and of itself.

    EXPECT AND RESPECT OTHER TRAIL USERS. Whether you hike, bike, or ride a horse. That's the answer. Yet unfortunately, JCOS policies continually actively work against that spirit. I sincerely hope JCOS managers open their minds to better approaches that would actually meet their goals, instead of defending bad policy and exacerbating bad situations with bad non-solutions.

    Okey dokey. Off to Moab ...

    .
    Last edited by TVC15; 11-13-2008 at 07:33 AM.

  40. #40
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    I think Enchanted Forest needs to be designated "Uphill Only" for bikes and no hikers allowed anytime, up or down. It's a great climb! I bet I'm the only rider on this forum who knows what it's like to climb EF. You shoulda seen the looks on the faces of the bikers I encountered as they were coming down. (but that's on another thread).
    Who's in charge, the thinker or the thought?

  41. #41
    Bad Andy
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy
    I bet I'm the only rider on this forum who knows what it's like to climb EF.
    How much?

  42. #42
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    Took the survey. I got the same feeling as most, MTB riders are bad.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy
    ...Enchanted Forest needs to be designated "Uphill Only" for bikes... I bet I'm the only rider on this forum who knows what it's like to climb EF...
    That logic doesn't even make sense, dude. If changing policies, wouldn't you want to change them in favor of the majority, not the minority?
    A trail thatís too difficult wouldnít exist because itíd never be used. But, trails can exist thatíre too difficult for you.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by andychrysler
    How much?
    You, too? When I did that thread about riding up EF the outcry had me believing it was such a heretical thought that I was the only one. I thought it was pretty easy and cool in the way of riding a new trail is cool. Traction was a lot better than I thought it would be.

    Enchanted Forest-a different perspective
    Who's in charge, the thinker or the thought?

  45. #45
    Bad Andy
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    Missed that thread. I think I've only done it once. Guess I should do it again soon. It's def. better descending though.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooManyToyz
    Took the survey. I got the same feeling as most, MTB riders are bad.
    Not just bad, but SMBA.








    Super Mega Bad A$s

  47. #47
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    I think designating any trail as one direction only is just plain stupid.

    I have also ridden EF uphill. I guess I'm a whimp, because I only did it once and that reinforced my typical choice of riding it down. I had a similar experience with the bottom section of Longhorn at WR. The uphill option does, however, leave you with one of the better sections of downhill on Apex, which is missed if you do EF downhill.
    What, me worry?

  48. #48
    MK_
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sked
    The uphill option does, however, leave you with one of the better sections of downhill on Apex, which is missed if you do EF downhill.
    Who said you can't pedal uphill on Apex, then turn around and ride down Apex if Enchanted Forest is downhill only?

    _MK

    Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not just surrounded by a*holes

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sked
    I think designating any trail as one direction only is just plain stupid.

    I have also ridden EF uphill. I guess I'm a whimp, because I only did it once and that reinforced my typical choice of riding it down. I had a similar experience with the bottom section of Longhorn at WR. The uphill option does, however, leave you with one of the better sections of downhill on Apex, which is missed if you do EF downhill.
    I only did EF up once because 1) The outrage expressed by those who go down it was palpable 2) I couldn't tell if bikers were more attuned to hikers spread out on the trail having lunch but not to bikes coming up, because the close calls just weren't worth it.

    I'm surprised now that I look back on it that I did that during the summer after my broken wrist 8 months before. That just sort of says how not hard a climb it must be because I was just trying to get back into shape. I never could ride it down fast enough for it to be that much fun (again, heretical thought I know) but I sure liked going up. Oh, well...
    Who's in charge, the thinker or the thought?

  50. #50
    Pivot Rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy
    I never could ride it down fast enough for it to be that much fun (again, heretical thought I know) but I sure liked going up. Oh, well...
    ahhhhhh.... we've had this conversation before!
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  51. #51
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    +1 on registering but never getting the email to do the survey. It's possible I can't add, but when I tried to register again it told me that my email had already been used. Any help????

  52. #52
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    Thanks for posting this. I'd hate to see any restrictive changes to Apex. The closing of the top seems like an especially bad idea. If they did this, it would start a flood of poachers. Also, in my mind this would ruin Chimney Gulch more than Apex. I'd still ride Apex regularly but Chimeny Gulch just isn't that much fun without connecting it to Apex (and finishing at GCB).

  53. #53
    Moosehead
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    welcome back TVC15. as a fine for your extended leave, we demand moab mtb photos. have a great trip.

  54. #54
    Moosehead
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    let's pretend apex becomes MTB specific. should we be that lucky, would you guys like to see alternating directional days - not just on EF, but grubstake, picknsledge, and maybe even DH only days? just askin for ideas, not recommending anything.

    either way, pretty cool to consider, eh?

    +1 never considered an ascent of EF, but it'll be my next ride.

  55. #55
    Bad Andy
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    Quote Originally Posted by moosehead
    alternating directional days
    I threw that out there in my commments (even if it's not biker only). Obviously, leaving the main trail bi-directional.

  56. #56
    Bad Andy
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy
    I think Enchanted Forest needs to be designated "Uphill Only" for bikes and no hikers allowed anytime, up or down. It's a great climb! I bet I'm the only rider on this forum who knows what it's like to climb EF. You shoulda seen the looks on the faces of the bikers I encountered as they were coming down. (but that's on another thread).
    Alright xcguy, it's settled - you are an evil man.
    It wouldn't have even crossed my mind as I was headed up Apex tonight, but you put it in my head, and as I got to the lower entrance to Enchanted Forest, guess what I did?
    ?
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    Yup, turned left and went up the thing backwards.
    I think it took me about 5 minutes longer than the regular route. Everything's rideable.
    And, no people, I don't recommend it backwards during busy hours (read - daylight), but it's not as bad as you may think. Kinda nice with the couple short downhills mixed in. Of course, I turned around and came back down it too.

    Also, TVC15 if you're reading this, I think all would agree, you need to post some Moab pix, and report.

  57. #57
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    First off I dont ride alot of XC mainly because I dont have a trail bike right now so I don't really care about any of the questions at the present moment. Having said that, I am a supporter of Mtn. Bikers of all types so I answered them and submitted my responses. Trail access is a good thing. I know of other trails out and about and I don't need some of the parks mentioned. Would it be nice to have closer DH trails for us to enjoy? YES. Of course it would. BUT do I really ever think that is going to happen? NO. So, I never have the user conflicts that some of the other people have experienced because I hit trails that no one else wants to ride up. I'm good with that. I hardly ever run into hikers or the XC types although I do love to give you guys a hard time about your spandex and chamois butter. You guys can all have "The Cone" or Matt Winters, Or Apex, Or Indian Creek or what ever. It gives me a good laugh. I never ride those trails anyhow. and...IF by chance I happen to ride a trail and see someone riding up the trail while I'm headed down, I will by most chances pull over and yield. Why? because we are out on the trail to have fun and get away from the conflicts of our daily lives at work, home, etc. I ride my bike because I love it and the other people on the trail are doing the same thing. I'm sick to death of the XC vs. DH vs. Hiker vs. hiker w/ dogs off the leash. My opinion is just this. Your out in the forest, etc to have a good time people, leave the attitudes and hate else where.

  58. #58
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    I bet I'm the only rider on this forum who knows what it's like to climb EF.
    Not hardly pilgrim. Do it all the time, but not on the weekends anymore. Used to but well...u know.
    Same with 401. ( as an out and back. Idiots who are stupid enough to ride up the road and eat dust from all the suvs give me funny looks but I would rather do 2x's the cow sh&^t.)
    But not the bull sh&^t at EF on the weekends.

  59. #59
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    This survey pit's DH biking as the problem.... whereas its really about crowding and yeilding.

    I don't want change, period.

  60. #60
    MFin' Princess
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    Quote Originally Posted by moosehead
    welcome back TVC15.
    Thanks. Had a great time. Nice to see ya!

    Quote Originally Posted by mh
    as a fine for your extended leave, we demand moab mtb photos. have a great trip
    Okey dokey, what the hell.











    Apparently we went the wrong weekend ... this is "the" weekend to be out there ... (dang it!) so if you're not already out there, get there quick, or consider yourself a complete and total loser. Many more (and better) pix to come I'm sure ......

  61. #61
    Moosehead
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    Uh, not to be unreasonable, but these tasty photos need their OWN THREAD with MUCHO ADDITIONS!

    and nice pink laced knee highs

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