Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner

Apex Flood Damage Photos - Closure to continue well into 2014

18K views 179 replies 43 participants last post by  SkaredShtles 
#1 ·
There was a guided tour conducted by JCOS staff this morning, to view the extent and nature of the flood damage at Apex Park.

The damage has to be seen to be believed. It is expected that repairs and reconstruction will begin next year. The complete assessment and general plan for moving forward will likely be done in the next few months. But it is known that the significant nature of the work which needs to be done, not to mention the sheer volume, will require materials and equipment which is not going to be allowed to weather and degrade under the snow over the winter. Significant work is not expected to begin until spring.

Patience will be required. This isn't going to get fixed any time soon.

In addition to the numerous examples of damage one might expect after a significant rain event, there are at least 5 places on Apex trail proper which evoke that "Oh... wow..." reaction. See a couple examples below.

20 photos can be seen here: Apex Flood Damage Tour - 2013.10.24 - a set on Flickr

Apex Flood Damage
Doesn't look like such a big hole ...

Apex Flood Damage
... until you are down in it, looking back up at the trail.

Apex Flood Damage

Apex Flood Damage
 
See less See more
4
#31 ·
That's what I've heard from everyone- and thanks for chipping in with the info.

I've been exchanging some polite e-mails with Tim at JCOS and he said they were still considering the possibility of being able to open the frontside- or a better way to put it is that they haven't given a hard "no"- but that last e-mail was from two weeks ago, before they've had two teams of folks up there to check it out. I sent a follow-up e-mail today and hope to hear back from him sometime- he's been cordial and responsive so far to my inquiries.
 
#32 ·
Tuesday, November 19th- JCOS is going to be having a meeting to address Apex and other park plans, etc. There should be more details coming soonish, but put it on your calendar now if you can make it.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
#33 ·
Latest from my inbox:

Thank you for your interest in updates regarding Apex Park. As we work through the repair process to address the flood damage in the park, we will keep you updated on the progress.

If you were unable to attend our public information meeting on the 19th, we have made the content from the meeting available on our website:

· Flood Recovery Presentation - The presentation from the public meeting which covers all of our flood-damaged parks, the work completed, the work yet to be done, and FEMA involvement

· Apex Park Flood Damage Assessment Map - shows damage on trails rated as minor, moderate, and heavy

· Apex Park FAQ's

The content above can be found on the Apex Park page.

In addition, two new videos were shown at the meeting and can be viewed here:
Video: Jeffco Open Space Flood Recovery

Video: Apex Park Flood Damage: A Walking Tour (no sound)

We have started volunteer days at Apex Park. The first two days will take place the week of Nov. 25th, and were filled by volunteers at the public information meeting. Additional volunteer efforts will become available as weather, staff resources and trail logistics for hauling materials allow.

Thank you for your patience as we work to address the Apex Park closure. We appreciate your cooperation and respect of the closure for your safety.
 
#40 ·
If JCOS would accept IMBA help things could probably move faster. But that horse was beaten long ago.

I agree with others that it's a public-owned entity and while partial closure is acceptable and understandable (such as mustang at WR right now), blanket closure of the entire park is poor management considering the percentage of trails that are unaffected.
 
#41 ·
I agree with others that it's a public-owned entity and while partial closure is acceptable and understandable (such as mustang at WR right now), blanket closure of the entire park is poor management considering the percentage of trails that are unaffected.
The reasoning behind closing the entire park is clearly stated by JCOS. Apex Gulch is the major connector and has the most damage. More importantly, there is major damage at both the east and west trailheads. Because of the damage at the trailheads and the connectivity of other trails to the damaged Apex Gulch trail JCOS decided the potential for users entering damaged areas is too high. Thus, the closure.

On the list of priorities, trail user safety is higher than trail use. Sure, it sucks, but it does no good to blame people who are doing their jobs; nor to demand anything because of perceived entitlement.

A rough estimate from the damage map lists ~6 miles of trail with minor and moderate damage and another ~1 mile of major damage. That's ~74% of the total milage with some sort of damage. (JCOS list the criteria for damage assessment in the FAQs.) That leaves ~26% of the trails undamaged.

So, if ~3/4 of the park needs trail work, it makes sense to close the entire park until a comprehensive and longterm solution is determined.
 
#42 ·
^^ I am just happy that we're going to start moving forward sooner than later. The real answer is that JCOS is a bureaucracy, and a government entity and both of those things mean that they have to come up with some rules and abide by those rules and lean towards safety even in times when it seems clearly ridiculous. The Major damage is the only reason to close any part of the trail. The "minor to moderate" damage, if you go by actual user reports and not the map that basically has every inch of trail classified as damaged, is mostly nonsense. They can close the gut, Sluicebox and I even understand Hardscrabble to upper Apex/ Enchanted since the top entrance is so messed up, but they most certainly could have had the east/ lower entrance repaired and Pick n Sledge/ Grubstake already opened if they had decided that it was just as much "low hanging fruit" as similar damage at other parks. It would be very easy to put significant barriers up on the sections you want closed (this is a single track trail system, after all), and keep people out of the areas you don't want open. As for managing the crowds, etc, I also think that's BS. If the trail gets too crowded, people won't ride/ run/ hike there, and people aren't quite as likely to drive from Denver or elsewhere to ride a stunted jaunt up PnS when they would have so many other open parks to choose from where they could get more miles/ better access/ less crowds for the same drive. Which means it would primarily benefit locals... you know, JCOS taxpayers (not sure why we shouldn't have some perceived entitlement). I've given up hope that anything is going to move any faster than they are, but I still definitely reserve some frustration at the process, especially when the "reasons" sound so much more like thinly veiled excuses.
 
#43 ·
The FAQ covers every issue you have with the closure.

The phased plan is already in progress, with the first two volunteer days putting up closure signs along Apex Gulch. The next step is to work on the trails in the NE part of the park (the most with minor to moderate damage); then work on the west part of the park and EF; with the final, and most, work done on Apex Gulch.

As for the alternating days for hikers/equestrians and bikers, it is a good way to ameliorate any potential user conflicts. It's not like the hikers/equines. are getting a better deal.

The "reasons" for the closure only appear as "thinly veiled excuses" because you're seeing the problem from your perspective: the user.

For locals, this closure ins't a big deal. As you said, there are other places for people to go: MW/DR is less than 2 miles (and linkable to GM); CG is just over 2 miles; WR and NTM are just a bit further at ~7 miles and ~5 miles.
 
#44 ·
Yes- The "phased plan" is already in progress (you know, since it was only announced one week ago, that's pretty impressive), but the trails could have been opened already (and the plan could have been released sooner- we didn't need them spending time making neat videos about how awesome JCOS is). I'm just saying that it didn't need to move so slowly and the whole park doesn't need to still be closed. They put off dealing with Apex (as they said at the meeting) because there were other, easier fixes to deal with first, and it was easier to just close the entire park and figure it out later.

The FAQ covers every issue, but I'm just saying that I think some of the answers in the FAQ aren't that satisfactory to me (THE user- yes, it's true, the non-users likely don't give a sh*t). Possible late 2014/ 2015 to build some bridges over 5-6 gaps? Seriously? 3/4 of the park with trail damage? Please.

We're talking about instituting alternating days to ameliorate potential conflict? Why do we assume there's going to be conflict? Seriously, how many equestrians are going to park at Apex to go up PnS? I would guess not many. Still, alternating days? fine.

Oh- and I'm a local. And it's a BIG deal (I'm joking here, but please don't speak for me or many of the other locals who live nearby the trails and are frustrated by the snail's pace approach). In fact, I'm so local that I typically walk or ride or run to the park, so getting in a car to load up my dogs for a run to go to a more congested trail does kinda suck.

Honestly, like I said, I am happy we're moving forward. I was actually quite thrilled with the news at the meeting and am excited about any progress that can be made. I've offered to help run mini-crews with trained volunteers so that we might get the park opened sooner, but those offers have been ignored. Either way, I'm psyched, just a bit disappointed by the slog of bureaucracy.
 
#47 ·
GoldenGeezer- not sure what you "call to involvement" was, but I missed it.

I had a meeting with three folks from JCOS two weeks ago. There was some new news and most of it wasn't great. They are planning on some major trail re-routing of Pick N Sledge, which they didn't really talk about in the meeting they had for the public. I urged them to consider opening PnS/ Grubstake (what they're calling "phase 1") sooner (Tim Sandsmark had said at the meeting that he didn't see any reason why it couldn't be open by January-- and he's right, there's no real damage up that way). Then, they could put their efforts into Phase 2 (upper Apex/ Hardscrabble/ Enchanted) and Phase 3 (main Gut/ Sluicebox where the worst washouts are), and circle back and THEN do the re-routing on PnS. I urged, I pleaded. I was basically told "no" and that Phase 1 wouldn't likely be open until May. The excuse (not reason, excuse) was that it was too hard to manage the front side of the trail only. I pointed out (and so did one of the other JCOS people) that their whole plan for Phase 1 to manage just that section of trail, only later in the spring. That didn't go anywhere.

The point of the meeting was to try to organize and train some folks from the community who could lead "mini-crews" independent of the organized volunteer days and chip away at the work that needs to be done in order to speed things up a little and better involve the community. They were receptive to this idea, and in the next couple of weeks, we should hear about some opportunities to get trained in some trail maintenance and rebuilding and there will be a call to identify folks who would be willing to be leaders of these "mini-crews." There was a lot of back and forth, but the thing that was most obvious was that this is a bureaucratic, government entity and it moves at a snail's pace, and with their own goals. I couldn't agree more about the transparency piece and I have subsequently communicated that the major frustrations in the community could largely be resolved if they could do a better job communicating- via Facebook, meetings, website, etc.

Some good news is that they are definitely planning on putting in a skills area at the base of Apex. So... there's that.

I'm looking forward to hearing what they put together in the next couple of weeks to communicate their plans with the public and to try to garner support from volunteers to get things moving. There ARE people in JCOS (Tim being one) who also think that the frontside could and should be opened sooner, but they're not ultimately in charge and the decisions are being made somewhat unilaterally, it seems.

I've heard several reports like WKD's- including that the entire frontside, including Apex up to the wall, all of PnS, all of Argos, and all of Grubstake is totally rideable. Keeping it closed because it would be "difficult to manage" during the slowest usage season of the year is BS. We do know that they are working with FEMA and trying to get extra monies to do more trail work (like what they're considering for PnS), but if that's the case, then just tell us.

I'll keep y'all posted as I hear more in the coming weeks (much of the senior staff at JCOS was on break the last week or so). My hope is that we will have a "call to involvement" that could actually move things forward. If not, I'm hoping there are more folks who will rally to try to let them know that it's BS.

Oh- and as for the bulldogs- the most they can do is give you a $50 ticket.
 
#54 ·
Not sure if folks got this- If you click on the eventbrite link for next Wednesday's meeting, it says it's sold out, but maybe if enough of us put our names on the wait list, they'll open it up to a bigger audience? Letter from JCOS:

Thank you for indicating your willingness to help Jeffco Open Space repair and reopen trails damaged from September's flooding. A unique series of events is now available to you. Jeffco Open Space will be providing Trails Training Projects for small groups of volunteers. Trails Training Projects will give volunteers a solid skill set to help Jeffco Open Space crews reopen trails that remain closed following last September's severe flooding, including Apex Park. Open to volunteers of all skill levels, these sessions will focus on various aspects of trail maintenance and construction as well as hands-on practice. After attending a Trails Training Project, volunteers will be better prepared to hit the ground ready to work, when participating in typical Volunteer Trail events hosted by Jeffco Open Space.

On January 22, a kickoff event will be hosted at the Jeffco Open Space offices from 6:00 - 7:30PM. This kickoff will cover the basics of trail construction processes and design considerations in a classroom setting. This kickoff is not a prerequisite to the Trail Training Projects series, but will benefit volunteers that want to understand how trails are designed and built within natural landscapes.

Beginning January 28 through the month of February, Trail Training Projects will occur weekdays from 9AM to 3PM on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays. Space is limited to 10 volunteers per event. All events will be subject to weather/site conditions and will take place in the field at either Apex Park, White Ranch Park or North Table Mountain Park. Due to logistical concerns, participants are required to register through Eventbrite Trails Training Project Kickoff Meeting Tickets, Golden - Eventbrite. If participation and interest demonstrate need, additional training projects may be scheduled.

Happy Trails!
Dave

Dave Davenport
Trails Services Lead
Jeffco Open Space
303-271-5924 direct
303-886-3988 mobile
<image001.jpg>
 
#55 ·
More from JCOS:

Alex,
I'm encouraging people to sign up for the wait list so we can make a determination on a course of action after we see the total response. Our current limitation is room size. We may need to have an additional meeting or I might be able to get you into Wednesday night, I should know more by tomorrow. In the meantime, feel free to sign up for the individual training days as well.

Jefferson County Open Space on Eventbrite
 
#56 ·
Went to meeting last night, and it appears they will be flattening a few sections of trails. they look to centennial cone as the perfect trail. this is sadly unfortunate. it also appears they will be using the motivated volunteers to capitalize on the chance to significantly reduce the slope of pick and sledge. the challenging switchbacks will be gone for good...

at this time the could not confirm if they will "flatten" any other trails, as they have not had a chance to spend time yet to determine this. but we can only assume, as they stated the grade was unsustainable multiple times...

Yellow Colorfulness Slope Line World


Hopefully you can see the picture.

"Keep Apex Black"
"Don't Centennial Cone Apex"
 
#60 ·
"Keep in mind that the average grade on Whistler's famous A-line is about 6 percent.

More here: grade percentage - Aline, dirt merchant, ect"

A-line is a jump trail, when is Jeffco putting in a jump trail at Apex?? Not saying the trail won't be fun but I mountain bike for more than jumps, sometimes scary rock switchbacks are fun too. Oh, well it will save me a drive.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top