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Apex Flood Damage Photos - Closure to continue well into 2014

18K views 179 replies 43 participants last post by  SkaredShtles 
#1 ·
There was a guided tour conducted by JCOS staff this morning, to view the extent and nature of the flood damage at Apex Park.

The damage has to be seen to be believed. It is expected that repairs and reconstruction will begin next year. The complete assessment and general plan for moving forward will likely be done in the next few months. But it is known that the significant nature of the work which needs to be done, not to mention the sheer volume, will require materials and equipment which is not going to be allowed to weather and degrade under the snow over the winter. Significant work is not expected to begin until spring.

Patience will be required. This isn't going to get fixed any time soon.

In addition to the numerous examples of damage one might expect after a significant rain event, there are at least 5 places on Apex trail proper which evoke that "Oh... wow..." reaction. See a couple examples below.

20 photos can be seen here: Apex Flood Damage Tour - 2013.10.24 - a set on Flickr

Apex Flood Damage
Doesn't look like such a big hole ...

Apex Flood Damage
... until you are down in it, looking back up at the trail.

Apex Flood Damage

Apex Flood Damage
 
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#42 ·
^^ I am just happy that we're going to start moving forward sooner than later. The real answer is that JCOS is a bureaucracy, and a government entity and both of those things mean that they have to come up with some rules and abide by those rules and lean towards safety even in times when it seems clearly ridiculous. The Major damage is the only reason to close any part of the trail. The "minor to moderate" damage, if you go by actual user reports and not the map that basically has every inch of trail classified as damaged, is mostly nonsense. They can close the gut, Sluicebox and I even understand Hardscrabble to upper Apex/ Enchanted since the top entrance is so messed up, but they most certainly could have had the east/ lower entrance repaired and Pick n Sledge/ Grubstake already opened if they had decided that it was just as much "low hanging fruit" as similar damage at other parks. It would be very easy to put significant barriers up on the sections you want closed (this is a single track trail system, after all), and keep people out of the areas you don't want open. As for managing the crowds, etc, I also think that's BS. If the trail gets too crowded, people won't ride/ run/ hike there, and people aren't quite as likely to drive from Denver or elsewhere to ride a stunted jaunt up PnS when they would have so many other open parks to choose from where they could get more miles/ better access/ less crowds for the same drive. Which means it would primarily benefit locals... you know, JCOS taxpayers (not sure why we shouldn't have some perceived entitlement). I've given up hope that anything is going to move any faster than they are, but I still definitely reserve some frustration at the process, especially when the "reasons" sound so much more like thinly veiled excuses.
 
#43 ·
The FAQ covers every issue you have with the closure.

The phased plan is already in progress, with the first two volunteer days putting up closure signs along Apex Gulch. The next step is to work on the trails in the NE part of the park (the most with minor to moderate damage); then work on the west part of the park and EF; with the final, and most, work done on Apex Gulch.

As for the alternating days for hikers/equestrians and bikers, it is a good way to ameliorate any potential user conflicts. It's not like the hikers/equines. are getting a better deal.

The "reasons" for the closure only appear as "thinly veiled excuses" because you're seeing the problem from your perspective: the user.

For locals, this closure ins't a big deal. As you said, there are other places for people to go: MW/DR is less than 2 miles (and linkable to GM); CG is just over 2 miles; WR and NTM are just a bit further at ~7 miles and ~5 miles.
 
#44 ·
Yes- The "phased plan" is already in progress (you know, since it was only announced one week ago, that's pretty impressive), but the trails could have been opened already (and the plan could have been released sooner- we didn't need them spending time making neat videos about how awesome JCOS is). I'm just saying that it didn't need to move so slowly and the whole park doesn't need to still be closed. They put off dealing with Apex (as they said at the meeting) because there were other, easier fixes to deal with first, and it was easier to just close the entire park and figure it out later.

The FAQ covers every issue, but I'm just saying that I think some of the answers in the FAQ aren't that satisfactory to me (THE user- yes, it's true, the non-users likely don't give a sh*t). Possible late 2014/ 2015 to build some bridges over 5-6 gaps? Seriously? 3/4 of the park with trail damage? Please.

We're talking about instituting alternating days to ameliorate potential conflict? Why do we assume there's going to be conflict? Seriously, how many equestrians are going to park at Apex to go up PnS? I would guess not many. Still, alternating days? fine.

Oh- and I'm a local. And it's a BIG deal (I'm joking here, but please don't speak for me or many of the other locals who live nearby the trails and are frustrated by the snail's pace approach). In fact, I'm so local that I typically walk or ride or run to the park, so getting in a car to load up my dogs for a run to go to a more congested trail does kinda suck.

Honestly, like I said, I am happy we're moving forward. I was actually quite thrilled with the news at the meeting and am excited about any progress that can be made. I've offered to help run mini-crews with trained volunteers so that we might get the park opened sooner, but those offers have been ignored. Either way, I'm psyched, just a bit disappointed by the slog of bureaucracy.
 
#47 ·
GoldenGeezer- not sure what you "call to involvement" was, but I missed it.

I had a meeting with three folks from JCOS two weeks ago. There was some new news and most of it wasn't great. They are planning on some major trail re-routing of Pick N Sledge, which they didn't really talk about in the meeting they had for the public. I urged them to consider opening PnS/ Grubstake (what they're calling "phase 1") sooner (Tim Sandsmark had said at the meeting that he didn't see any reason why it couldn't be open by January-- and he's right, there's no real damage up that way). Then, they could put their efforts into Phase 2 (upper Apex/ Hardscrabble/ Enchanted) and Phase 3 (main Gut/ Sluicebox where the worst washouts are), and circle back and THEN do the re-routing on PnS. I urged, I pleaded. I was basically told "no" and that Phase 1 wouldn't likely be open until May. The excuse (not reason, excuse) was that it was too hard to manage the front side of the trail only. I pointed out (and so did one of the other JCOS people) that their whole plan for Phase 1 to manage just that section of trail, only later in the spring. That didn't go anywhere.

The point of the meeting was to try to organize and train some folks from the community who could lead "mini-crews" independent of the organized volunteer days and chip away at the work that needs to be done in order to speed things up a little and better involve the community. They were receptive to this idea, and in the next couple of weeks, we should hear about some opportunities to get trained in some trail maintenance and rebuilding and there will be a call to identify folks who would be willing to be leaders of these "mini-crews." There was a lot of back and forth, but the thing that was most obvious was that this is a bureaucratic, government entity and it moves at a snail's pace, and with their own goals. I couldn't agree more about the transparency piece and I have subsequently communicated that the major frustrations in the community could largely be resolved if they could do a better job communicating- via Facebook, meetings, website, etc.

Some good news is that they are definitely planning on putting in a skills area at the base of Apex. So... there's that.

I'm looking forward to hearing what they put together in the next couple of weeks to communicate their plans with the public and to try to garner support from volunteers to get things moving. There ARE people in JCOS (Tim being one) who also think that the frontside could and should be opened sooner, but they're not ultimately in charge and the decisions are being made somewhat unilaterally, it seems.

I've heard several reports like WKD's- including that the entire frontside, including Apex up to the wall, all of PnS, all of Argos, and all of Grubstake is totally rideable. Keeping it closed because it would be "difficult to manage" during the slowest usage season of the year is BS. We do know that they are working with FEMA and trying to get extra monies to do more trail work (like what they're considering for PnS), but if that's the case, then just tell us.

I'll keep y'all posted as I hear more in the coming weeks (much of the senior staff at JCOS was on break the last week or so). My hope is that we will have a "call to involvement" that could actually move things forward. If not, I'm hoping there are more folks who will rally to try to let them know that it's BS.

Oh- and as for the bulldogs- the most they can do is give you a $50 ticket.
 
#54 ·
Not sure if folks got this- If you click on the eventbrite link for next Wednesday's meeting, it says it's sold out, but maybe if enough of us put our names on the wait list, they'll open it up to a bigger audience? Letter from JCOS:

Thank you for indicating your willingness to help Jeffco Open Space repair and reopen trails damaged from September's flooding. A unique series of events is now available to you. Jeffco Open Space will be providing Trails Training Projects for small groups of volunteers. Trails Training Projects will give volunteers a solid skill set to help Jeffco Open Space crews reopen trails that remain closed following last September's severe flooding, including Apex Park. Open to volunteers of all skill levels, these sessions will focus on various aspects of trail maintenance and construction as well as hands-on practice. After attending a Trails Training Project, volunteers will be better prepared to hit the ground ready to work, when participating in typical Volunteer Trail events hosted by Jeffco Open Space.

On January 22, a kickoff event will be hosted at the Jeffco Open Space offices from 6:00 - 7:30PM. This kickoff will cover the basics of trail construction processes and design considerations in a classroom setting. This kickoff is not a prerequisite to the Trail Training Projects series, but will benefit volunteers that want to understand how trails are designed and built within natural landscapes.

Beginning January 28 through the month of February, Trail Training Projects will occur weekdays from 9AM to 3PM on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays. Space is limited to 10 volunteers per event. All events will be subject to weather/site conditions and will take place in the field at either Apex Park, White Ranch Park or North Table Mountain Park. Due to logistical concerns, participants are required to register through Eventbrite Trails Training Project Kickoff Meeting Tickets, Golden - Eventbrite. If participation and interest demonstrate need, additional training projects may be scheduled.

Happy Trails!
Dave

Dave Davenport
Trails Services Lead
Jeffco Open Space
303-271-5924 direct
303-886-3988 mobile
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#55 ·
More from JCOS:

Alex,
I'm encouraging people to sign up for the wait list so we can make a determination on a course of action after we see the total response. Our current limitation is room size. We may need to have an additional meeting or I might be able to get you into Wednesday night, I should know more by tomorrow. In the meantime, feel free to sign up for the individual training days as well.

Jefferson County Open Space on Eventbrite
 
#56 ·
Went to meeting last night, and it appears they will be flattening a few sections of trails. they look to centennial cone as the perfect trail. this is sadly unfortunate. it also appears they will be using the motivated volunteers to capitalize on the chance to significantly reduce the slope of pick and sledge. the challenging switchbacks will be gone for good...

at this time the could not confirm if they will "flatten" any other trails, as they have not had a chance to spend time yet to determine this. but we can only assume, as they stated the grade was unsustainable multiple times...

Yellow Colorfulness Slope Line World


Hopefully you can see the picture.

"Keep Apex Black"
"Don't Centennial Cone Apex"
 
#60 ·
"Keep in mind that the average grade on Whistler's famous A-line is about 6 percent.

More here: grade percentage - Aline, dirt merchant, ect"

A-line is a jump trail, when is Jeffco putting in a jump trail at Apex?? Not saying the trail won't be fun but I mountain bike for more than jumps, sometimes scary rock switchbacks are fun too. Oh, well it will save me a drive.
 
#61 ·
My point is that many people equate sustainable grades with boring riding. That's not necessarily the case -- I don't know many people that would call A-line or Dirt Merchant boring. I thought it would be worth pointing out that the trail gradient isn't a good way to judge the nature of the riding. For instance, the doubletrack section on the east side of Walker Ranch is super steep, but not much fun to ride.
 
#63 ·
The majority of the meeting was relatively frustrating for me. It lacked in productivity and I felt like we were being talked down to like we were 12. "Who likes to hike, m'kay?" I'm not joking. He regularly said, "m'kay." At one point, he dramatically pulled down 5 or 6 pieces of chart paper and asked for 10 volunteers to come up front. He had the 10 volunteers stand on the 5-6 pieces of paper so they were kinda tight together. Then he said that, according to studies that they've done for the past two years, 4 of these people would be mountain bikers, 5-6 would be pedestrians and 1 (or less than 1) would be an equestrian. Then the people sat down and the paper was thrown away. Every single person there, save one teenage daughter there with her mom, was easily over 30 and I'm sure very well capable of understanding percentages without the demo. But that's how the first hour or so went- Kim giving "instruction" and explanation for trail terminology and such. But instead of just saying "when marking for new trails, JeffCo always flags the hinge-point (the inside edge of the trail), he told us about how 4-5 other agencies also do it, and asked people to participate and answer "why do you think it's important to be on the same page when flagging a trail?" Seriously? Just tell us how you want it done. 10 seconds. Move on.

Anyway, after an hour plus of relatively useless information that could've been covered in 10 minutes, we got into some more interesting information.

Dave and Eric are both "Trail Services Team Leads" and are two of the head trail builders for JeffCo. They're the guys out there blowing up rocks when needed and running the trail crews, etc. Dave was a HUGE breath of fresh air. I had a chance to speak with him for a while during the break (funny, but he knew who I was even though we've never met). When I asked him why PnS and Grubstake can't be open now and why it hasn't been open, he basically said he was frustrated by it to, but the decision was "above [his] pay grade."

So, on to the salient points:
Starting next week, they are going to be doing weekly "Trail Trainings" for the next two months. These will be field-based, limited to 6 participants (unless they can get more staff) and will be sign-ups through Eventbrite: Jefferson County Open Space on Eventbrite.

The Trail Trainings are different from regular project days in that they are designed to help people learn and get better at specific trail building skills and aspects. Their goal is to grow the "mini-crew" concept and be able to lean on volunteers who do some Trail Trainings to eventually lead Mini-Crews and/or be more self-directed during regular project days ("Bill, why don't you take these 6 people and go work on the rock reinforcement on the new switchback after Argos"). They intend to also get quite a bit of work done on these days, but not as much as would get done on a regular project day. Again, the hope is that people will gain enough skills and training to be more self-directed in the future- possibly leading ad-hoc mini-crews.

Despite the recent work at NTM, they assured everyone that their first priority is Apex and, secondly, White Ranch.

Apex specific:
Same schedule as before: Phase 1 (PnS/ Grubstake) by March 31st, Phase 2 (upper Sluicebox/ Hardscrabble/ Upper Apex [to create through traffic to Lookout Mtn Rd]) by June 30th, Phase 3 (Apex proper and Enchanted) by September 30th.

Why has it not been opened yet? Because of some bullshit. People being overwhelmed, easy to shut it down while getting "low-hanging fruit" in other areas, vacations over x-mas break, etc- plenty of excuses, none of them good reasons. But, all in the past, so not **** to do about it.

Why can't it be opened now? They just got the conceptual drawing from the engineers/ planners/ designers in it's final form (pic posted above) on Tuesday. They take it to the board/ county/ city on Monday to present it for a permit. Permit can be 8-10 days at the fastest, but can be drawn out for various reasons (just like any kind of building permit). They are hoping for the 8-10 day thing and feel the board is eager to get this going as well. But, even without permitting, they are planning on beginning to back-fill the existing trail starting in about a week (by Feb 1st) if weather cooperates. They can begin that work without a permit.

Yes- it will be more like Hardscrabble and Centennial Cone, and will not be the PnS we have all come to love (and hate) (and love) (and love). The 10-15% grade thing is interesting. In the map above, everywhere there is a yellow highlighted area, the trail is 15% or more. Even though much of that trail has been able to stay somewhat stable over the many years, after the 1000 year flood, they are saying the entire hydraulic profile of the entire mountain has changed- places that used to have minor washout concerns used to have a lot of trees and brush and layers and layers of debris and soil and other things that helped naturally filter and dilute runoff in a normal rain shower. Those same areas are now drainages that are exposed bedrock above and below the trail and even a minor rain storm is going to cause significantly more damage and erosion than ever before. This made some sense to me. Even though the trail seems fine, the mountain around it has changed. Not happy about it, but, like I said, it made some sense.

While only Phase 1 is open, they are considering alternating days or other schedules for management reasons- plan to be released by end of February.

I didn't get the impression that they're going to make any changes to Enchanted or the Apex Gut other than the necessary repairs- but when asked about it, the response was something like, "No. Not yet."

Other tidbits: IMBA/ COMBA are working with JCOS to build a mountain bike only trail system at Mt. Glen (I don't know where that is).

There is more work from Flood Recovery than can be done in one year at their normal staffing levels. They are putting in for 3 FT "Term" staff (1 year contract) to help with the Flood Relief efforts. They are hopeful they will get the funding to support this in the next couple of weeks. They are also hoping to increase volunteer efforts by more than 25%. With both of those factors, they hope to finish flood relief efforts this year.

The next project that was slotted to be completed this year, but is now set back until flood recovery is done, is a 6 mile connector between White Ranch and Golden Gate.

I think that's it.
 
#64 ·
I understand your point, but the section going to be bypassed is an excellent tech section into a steep technical switchback. this will be replaced with a trail similar to centennial cone & NTM, in which it appears JCOS couldn't be prouder of (however they still state that NTM is still too steep). i appreciate trails in which a FS bike is required, with natural technical features, that present a challenge. Jeffco has yet to produce a sustainable grade with exciting riding.
 
#65 ·
First off thanks to all those who have spent time attending meetings and exchanging emails with the land managers.

It's sad, but not unexpected to see the sustainability and grade issues coming into play for Apex and even worse for White Ranch. I pretty much wrote Apex off once the alternating day rule for EF was implemented and they put in the corral so I don't have a horse in the race really.

My opinion after seeing the post damage "trail work" done to Walker Ranch and other front range areas: Anyone expecting anything else other than a generic flat boring turning switchback mess is fooling themselves.
 
#66 ·
Yep. Losing PnS is going to suck. Those features have served as a constant challenge and, thankfully, accomplishment to my riding. The new trail will be a good challenge for my 4 year old. Maybe.
 
#69 ·
"however they still state that NTM is still too steep"

Where the hell on this trail is anything too steep? Maybe the 25 yard above the washed out water fall section, but hardly TOO steep.

What are they going for here? Trails that never need maintenance? Switchbacks that don't need water bars that make them a challenge? What will trails crew do if not repair trails after 2-3 storms per year? We don't need smooth-ass NTM trails everywhere with boring wide switchbacks mixed in. I love NTM as I live at the base and ride it often. But it gets boring, fast. Apex and white ranch provide a change in pace that this county needs to keep bikers happy and prevent the eventual poaching of tougher lines up and down the trail. I realize they'll never make everyone happy, but are there any mtn bikers out there who are happy to hear Apex will become less challenging? Would it kill jeffco to put in a few log bridges or skinnies to keep it interesting?
 
#73 ·
They were referring specifically to the waterfall trail that blew out (shocking), and is still closed. That is the only trail they said was "too steep" on NTM.

Most of last night's presentation and dialogue was dull and dry, but still informative. A lot of people were there to help, and unfortunately, some to grind an ax. It wasn't meant to be public input hour, that time has passed. They're going to do what they're going to do. And to an extent I think people are making a bigger deal out of this than it really is. Just search in this forum from about 5 years ago when they implemented the alternate day plan on Apex. It was like the world was coming unglued. As it turned out, it wasn't so bad.

"however they still state that NTM is still too steep"

Where the hell on this trail is anything too steep? Maybe the 25 yard above the washed out water fall section, but hardly TOO steep.

What are they going for here? Trails that never need maintenance? Switchbacks that don't need water bars that make them a challenge? What will trails crew do if not repair trails after 2-3 storms per year? We don't need smooth-ass NTM trails everywhere with boring wide switchbacks mixed in. I love NTM as I live at the base and ride it often. But it gets boring, fast. Apex and white ranch provide a change in pace that this county needs to keep bikers happy and prevent the eventual poaching of tougher lines up and down the trail. I realize they'll never make everyone happy, but are there any mtn bikers out there who are happy to hear Apex will become less challenging? Would it kill jeffco to put in a few log bridges or skinnies to keep it interesting?
 
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