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Apex Flood Damage Photos - Closure to continue well into 2014

18K views 179 replies 43 participants last post by  SkaredShtles 
#1 ·
There was a guided tour conducted by JCOS staff this morning, to view the extent and nature of the flood damage at Apex Park.

The damage has to be seen to be believed. It is expected that repairs and reconstruction will begin next year. The complete assessment and general plan for moving forward will likely be done in the next few months. But it is known that the significant nature of the work which needs to be done, not to mention the sheer volume, will require materials and equipment which is not going to be allowed to weather and degrade under the snow over the winter. Significant work is not expected to begin until spring.

Patience will be required. This isn't going to get fixed any time soon.

In addition to the numerous examples of damage one might expect after a significant rain event, there are at least 5 places on Apex trail proper which evoke that "Oh... wow..." reaction. See a couple examples below.

20 photos can be seen here: Apex Flood Damage Tour - 2013.10.24 - a set on Flickr

Apex Flood Damage
Doesn't look like such a big hole ...

Apex Flood Damage
... until you are down in it, looking back up at the trail.

Apex Flood Damage

Apex Flood Damage
 
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#37 ·
Whoa! Wait a minute! This is a public park. JCOS isn't Google, WalMart or some other private entity. These people are public employees and work for us, the taxpaying citizens of Jefferson County. I am and will be respectful but demand transparency foremost. Regardless of what JCOS decides to do they should retract the inaccurate map. Apex is a heavily used asset owned by we citizens and now we don't have use of our park for an extended time. Are you satisfied with that?
 
#102 ·
rogbie- kinda whack making it personal. We don't even know each other. I have been frustrated by this process, and what I share is my filter through the world. You have yours.

Oh- and I didn't wonder why they knew me. I thought it was funny he knew me (you can go back and re-read, if you like). In fact, think it's great he knew me. I have done what I can in this process to engage with JCOS and try to communicate what I hear with the community- here and other places. I think JCOS has done a poor job handling their communications from the days of the storm, and I've worked to develop relationships with many of the folks over there so we can get some more information and so that they know how important this is to (many of) us.

Russ- they are most definitely first-world problems, as are most of our problems. In fact, none of my problems are not first-world problems. No 2nd or 3rd world problems. Because we live in the first world. I'm not saying that my life isn't fantastic. It is. It's super awesome. It's so awesome that the "big" problems I have in my life are my backyard trail is closed. I have some perspective. If it's not important to you, I'm not sure why speak up?

And, for what it's worth, yes, I think this government entity, like most, works slowly and inefficiently. Even people within the entity will tell you so, and they'll also tell you that they make decisions not always with the everyone's best interest (or any interest) in mind. At the meeting, Dave even said that the reason that Argos is so lame is because the previous director, who was apparently really sucky (according to people who work there and seem very relieved to have a new director), said it had to be that way- input was ignored. They worked with some sort of interested group for input on NTM trail design with input from each user group- why not do that here? You also heard Kim, jokingly and in good spirits, many times insinuate how slow and political and difficult it is to get anything done.

I worry about those who have blind faith in their government and just trust that they're somehow the "experts" in what they manage. I do think that I have a voice and roll to play in my government, big or small, and this is an area I'm very interested in and passionate about. I might be a bad person because I'm not putting all of my efforts into saving someone somewhere else in the world, or spending all of my free time fighting poverty (fwiw, I did spend nearly 20 years working in schools and education programs, mostly with high-risk youth, plus I have a doctorate in teacher education and research on teaching, which is also why I do have some basis upon which to judge the effectiveness of Kim's "instruction").

Anyway, I'd prefer not to make this personal- I'd really like the trails to be opened as long as there is no really good reason (in my eyes) to keep them closed. If they're going to start back-filling them in on February first, that's a week it could be open. I'd take that. I can't imagine that me and 10 other people who might go up there are going to cause some horrible erosion or rock slide. And, for what it's worth, WKD and I aren't the only ones up there. Tons of hikers and trail runners have been up regularly as well. It's supposed to snow much of next week, so they're not going to do any work (again)- why not let me take my dogs for a little hike?
 
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#127 ·
Just wanted to say that I've been thinking about this a bunch today. I was sincere when I said you (rogbie) were totally right. I've not conducted myself at my best in this matter and I don't wanna be that guy. I've been frustrated, but that's no reason to take cheap shots at people just trying to do their jobs. I'm going to continue to try to work with JCOS and see if we can't move things forward, but I apologize for contributing to the silly nonsense that is so often found on these forums. I got caught up in my frustration and it's just piss poor behavior.

If I have anything of value to share after our meetings next week, I will.
 
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#136 ·
Al-
You state there is another meeting next week? Is this the trails training on Feb 13th?

Also, just checking your alignment here, are you of the "Keep Apex Black" camp, or the open ASAP and use the motivated volunteers to tame the classic nature of Apex and turn it into a blue?

Just checking. I agree with whoever stated we are being lied to, as I went to the info meeting on Apex at the Mountaineering Museum back in late fall, and there was no talk of re-routing Pick N' Sledge. Now there is a major redesign.

Just wanted to say that I've been thinking about this a bunch today. I was sincere when I said you (rogbie) were totally right. I've not conducted myself at my best in this matter and I don't wanna be that guy. I've been frustrated, but that's no reason to take cheap shots at people just trying to do their jobs. I'm going to continue to try to work with JCOS and see if we can't move things forward, but I apologize for contributing to the silly nonsense that is so often found on these forums. I got caught up in my frustration and it's just piss poor behavior.

If I have anything of value to share after our meetings next week, I will.
 
#164 ·
It hurts when internet people say mean things? You guys do it all the time to "noobs" so you're getting a taste of it back. Just because other idiots are using the trail doesn't mean you should brag that you are as well. They are being selfish and not helpful to the rebuilding effort.

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#165 ·
It hurts when internet people say mean things? You guys do it all the time to "noobs" so you're getting a taste of it back. Just because other idiots are using the trail doesn't mean you should brag that you are as well. They are being selfish and not helpful to the rebuilding effort.

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Serious question. Why "shouldn't" he? :confused: It's no secret the park is getting used. JCOS surely knows that's the case based on the tracks they see up there and the fence they built. Park's closed. Some, most people will obey it. Others won't. Just like traffic signs. Those that don't might get a ticket. They know that. Cops know that. And that's how stuff like this works.

What I don't get is people getting so upset and personal about other people's choices. Go be a volunteer ranger. Get your finger waving on. Have a ball. Embrace your inner authoritarian!
 
#176 ·
No rationalization. I was there to take photos for JCOS and UDFCD who were both out of town at conferences. Bike is good for scale right? I shared them with mtbr so that riders would know the trail is destroyed. You guys love your theories don't you? Hopefully you are more level headed in reality. Doubt it.
 
#14 ·
i agree, the time those 20 people spent gawking at the hole coulda been spent shoveling and filling in the holes.

i do respect that you "gotta see it to believe" kind of things. I just can't fathom how that much water formed rushing rivers like that. . . the top of the mountain above is only a few hundred vertical feet above.

thanks for sharing. i volunteered yesterday to help at lair o' the bear and was not stoked to be told we were redoing the picnic area at the base of the park. "oh, the trail is fine" said the ranger. so i said. . . "what about apex??" they really have limited staff to help manage the projects and are tying to knock out the easy ones first.
 
#21 ·
Must be a fun time in ignorance land. How does the coffee taste there?

Apex is near the bottom of the list dude. When Jeffco sends you the email for trail work make sure you respond quick because the tools will get picked up quick by the rest of us.
 
#23 ·
This is a neighborhood park, after all. How can that be closed for a year? JCOS should provide legal releases and then allow us in. BTW most of the trails are in great shape. Sure the gulch is damaged but that is only a small fraction of the park. I guess being an old timer when back in the day folks accepted reasonable hazards and and didn't just roll over when the man said to.

The idea about crowd sourcing the repair is a good idea too. I've participated and I am sure many more would too.
 
#26 ·
Thanks for sharing the pics. I have a few questions:

1) Who was invited on this guided tour? I'm just curious because I've asked folks at JCOS specifically if they would do a tour for neighborhood folks.

2) Did you guys go anywhere but up the gut/ Apex proper? From the aspect of things, every picture you posted appears to be up the main trail/ drainage (Apex Trail). One of my biggest questions has been whether or not there is significant damage elsewhere. If there is only minor damage on Argos/ Pick n Sledge/ Grubstake, that's a significant portion of trail that could be opened much sooner than sometime in 2014. Folks at JCOS have sent me some pictures, but like yours, they all appear to be up the gut. I'm sure there is some damage on the frontside trails, but I would imagine it's not nearly as bad as the damage up the main trail. I'd love to see/ hear a more comprehensive answer to this question.

Thanks!
 
#27 ·
the major damage is up the gut in the drainage. there were some minor erosions on some of the switchbacks - but nothing that couldnt be fixed and shored up with a few hrs and a few people... so - everything BUT the gut could be used, but you know what happens - there's always someone and more than one thats gonna run the closed parts... id personally be happy with a 3/4 solution until the rest is fixed.
 
#29 ·
As I live across the street I went up just after the deluge but before the closure. I was hiking, not biking. The damage is mostly confined to Apex Gulch. Any damage (trail washout) on other trails is minor. Anyway why aren't these trails open to hikers and runners? That's my point. Closure can readily be made as needed where machinery is being used.

This is a neighborhood park and should not closed without an absolute necessity and then only with broad-based community input.
 
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