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  1. #1
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    Anyone else hear the bicycle rant on 105.9 this morning?

    WTF??? Did any of you hear the "Intelligent Talk with Howie" segment on FM105.9 this morning? I only caught the last half of it or so, but the basis of the discussion was whether or not cyclists should be allowed on (busy) roadways. I will acknowledge that there are far too many ignorant cyclists out there who feel that they "own the road" and wrongly ignore all traffic laws and other drivers, but Howie actually was making jokes about 'wiping cyclists off the road' with cars and that hitting one would earn you '20 points'!! I'm all for humor and all, but suggesting that hitting someone on a bike is in any way ok is simply not acceptable. Haven't other radio DJs gotten fired over these sorts of things???

  2. #2
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    I didn't hear it, but damn that chaps me. I went to their website to see if I could hear it, but I could just find streaming. I sent the morning show a short but firey email, and would encourage others to do the same.
    Have at em.... TheAliceMorningShow@alice1059.com
    I really identify with you...SO MUCH.

    "Feelin stupid? I know I am."
    "You just have to forget everything you know about gravity."
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  3. #3
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    I believe they are owned by Clear Channel. Clear Channel has been in all kinds of hot water about this same thing on the east coast and down south. DJ's have been fired. What needs to be done is to contact Bicycle Colorado and then request transcripts of the radio show. Contact management at Alice....this is BOLLSHIT!!!!!!!!!

    As a tax payer and a commuter, I have the right to be on the road. I also have to follow all traffic rules of the road.

    Grass roots campaign to get this guy fired......Now I know why I dont listen to Alice
    Proud Tribe member since 1992 - looking for better singletrack to be ridden year round

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    Maybe a biker should have to have a licence and insurance for the PRIVILAGE to use the roadways.

    Driving is not a right, it is a privilage. It shouldn't be any different for bikers.

  5. #5
    Your bike sucks
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamoNNomaD
    Maybe a biker should have to have a licence and insurance for the PRIVILAGE to use the roadways.

    Driving is not a right, it is a privilage. It shouldn't be any different for bikers.
    Heck yeah. Don't forget walkers. They need their walking license if they want the privilege of using public throughways. Rollerbladers, cyclists, skateboards, joggers - -pffft - where do they get off using public lands for transportation without their papers? Don't like it? Stay home and starve. Don't forget our nation was founded on the idea that every citizen needs a license and insurance before setting foot on public roadways. It's the American way
    Last edited by Carl Mega; 04-18-2006 at 12:11 PM.

  6. #6
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    You don't have to like it, but driving isn't a right on the public roadways. Biking on them is not a right either.

  7. #7
    Your bike sucks
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamoNNomaD
    Biking on them is not a right either.
    How does one earn this privilege? Prove your point. I don't think you can.
    Last edited by Carl Mega; 04-18-2006 at 12:11 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamoNNomaD
    You don't have to like it, but driving isn't a right on the public roadways. Biking on them is not a right either.
    We should have licenses for trails, too. And insurance. Different licenses for different land managers at that. Come to think of it, we should just not worry about it and sell the forest. heh heh
    Redstone Cyclery
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  9. #9
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    Right to Ride on Road

    While driving a car is a privilege that requires a license and insurance, riding a bike on the roads curently does not. Having insurance and getting a license makes sense for cars, which are very large, attain great speeds and thus can hurt other people and property if not driven properly. Chances are that when riding a bike, poor handling will only hurt the person riding the bike. I believe in this case our government has wisely decided NOT to create regulations to protect people from their own stupidity (riding a bike recklessly on public roads, not wearing a helmet, etc.). As mentioned, bicyclists still must adhere to the rules of the road. Perhaps DamoNNomaD's frustration comes from riders who do not obey the rules and law enforcement that does not enforce the rules on bicyclists. However, none of this renders acceptable what the morning DJ apparently said. That sounds like it was just mean-spirited.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Mega
    How does one earn this privilege? Prove your point. I don't think you can.
    If indeed it was treated that way, bikers would have to pass a written and a course test to earn the privilage.

    There is nothing to prove.

  11. #11
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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by angryasian
    "Intelligent Talk ... on FM105.9"
    isn't this an oxymoron?
    -
    .And following our will and wind . . .
    . . .We'll ride the spiral to the end
    and may just go where no one's been.

  12. #12
    Your bike sucks
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    Huh? Then why did you write this...."You don't have to like it, but driving isn't a right on the public roadways. Biking on them is not a right either." Now you contradict yourself? Strange indeed!

    Rights are inherent. Privileges are given. Cycling on public roadways falls under "rights to use". Like all other rights it (public use) is restricted by laws and has boundaries.
    Driving a motor vehicle typically falls under privilege - it is granted. However, some libertarians have challenged this take and have even won a few court cases in support of it being a right under certain circumstances. Don't try and cite this if you get pulled over without a license though.

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    Carl-

    The fact that biking on roadways could be regulated through a greasy ease of lubed legislation is what makes it a privilage to me... and the fact is that it IS regulated and mostly PROHIBITED. It is a privilage that one does NOT have to take a test and get a license to ride on the roads that ARE legal to ride on.

    If riding your bike on the roadways is your "inherent right", then why don't you pop out onto Interstate 70 and see how long it takes for the highway patrol to show up and haul your butt away... with a heavy fine. Biking on public roads may seem like a "inherent right" in your little world, but not in the grand scheme of the system. In that system they are all but ostracized. Indeed a privilage at this point.

  14. #14
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    So I have called Alice to get a transcript of the show and had to leave a message with thier control dept. Dont really expect to hear back from them.

    I then called Bicycle Colorado and wanted to know what can be done. The nice lady that answered the phone had received many calls about this and they were also looking for a transcript of the show. They will be able to get something done.

    I have a right to complain, but they were all out of license's at the time.
    Proud Tribe member since 1992 - looking for better singletrack to be ridden year round

  15. #15
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    DamoNNomaD,
    Actually you can ride on I-70. You can ride between Genesse and Evergreen Parkway, Georgetown and Loveland Pass, and there are other spaces between Vail and Glenwood Springs.

    Plenty of places to do what you say you cant......
    Proud Tribe member since 1992 - looking for better singletrack to be ridden year round

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by yetirich
    DamoNNomaD,
    Actually you can ride on I-70. You can ride between Genesse and Evergreen Parkway, Georgetown and Loveland Pass, and there are other spaces between Vail and Glenwood Springs.

    Plenty of places to do what you say you cant......
    And even more where you can't!



    I-70 is an INTERSTATE highway. So you can ride on bits of it? It is still regulated and most of it is NOT open to bikes NO MATTER WHAT. It is not a privilage. It is not a right. It is ILLEGAL.

    It would be pretty suicidal to leave Glenwood Springs on I-70 towards Vail on a bike, not to mention TOTALLY illegal. If it is not open to the public on bikes, then it is not a inherint right to ride bikes on the roads of America. The fact is that it is regulated and illegal on many roads. If one could ride on the roads, it would be a privilage not a right. THAT is the status and reality of riding bikes on public roads no matter what people have told others to believe.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ignazjr
    we should just not worry about it and sell the forest. heh heh
    You mean build schools and golf courses and stuff?
    Tony
    is making a comeback.

    Turns out that five years of not mountain biking, really makes one strive to get back to it.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamoNNomaD
    Carl-

    The fact that biking on roadways could be regulated through a greasy ease of lubed legislation is what makes it a privilage to me... and the fact is that it IS regulated and mostly PROHIBITED. It is a privilage that one does NOT have to take a test and get a license to ride on the roads that ARE legal to ride on.

    If riding your bike on the roadways is your "inherent right", then why don't you pop out onto Interstate 70 and see how long it takes for the highway patrol to show up and haul your butt away... with a heavy fine. Biking on public roads may seem like a "inherent right" in your little world, but not in the grand scheme of the system. In that system they are all but ostracized. Indeed a privilage at this point.
    I actually saw a roadie out on one of our Interstate bypasses (which are illegal to cycle on) in full roadie regalia, headed straight for a very steep bridge, which has no break-down lane. One of the craziest things I've seen. The entrance ramp is clearly marked: No bicycles, no motorized scooters, no farm equipment, no motorized vehicles less than 5hp, etc.

  19. #19
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    I never could stand Alice and now I couldn't say I like it much more. I didn't hear the radio this morning, (thank God for KTCL for not having loud DJ's) and I completely agree that its wrong what they said. But the best thing to do is handle the manner in a civil way. I agree with Yetirich and him contacting Bicycle Colorado, these are the people who you want to handle these kind of matters.
    I can also say being a roadie and a mountain biker that there are roadies out there that don't respect the laws or others in general. Its best that we all educate ourselves so that safety comes first.
    No life is worth losing over simple measures that can be learned by all. Our roads are busy and they will continue to get busier. Why take unwarranted risk??
    I hope that the DJ learns a lesson but I also hope that people don't encourage this kind of behavior for the young out there.
    Ride Fast, Take Chances!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamoNNomaD
    You don't have to like it, but driving isn't a right on the public roadways. Biking on them is not a right either.
    Get over yourself!! Then add chlorine to your gene pool!! Nancy!!
    miSSionary
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by miSSionary
    Get over yourself!! Then add chlorine to your gene pool!! Nancy!!
    miSSionary
    I'm sorry you have trouble with facts. That is what happens when you have been told lies about the subject matter your entire life. Now you refuse the truth.

    It doesn't have anything to do with me.

    Riding bikes on roads is a privilage that can be snapped away at virtually anytime for any reason. Driving is also a privilage. There are regulations on both that don't make them inherint rights by nature.

    These are facts. If you feel you disagree with that, then please address it. There is no reason to attack me because you feel uncomfortable with the truth. I can handle it though. You obviously need someone to project on until you think about it.

  22. #22
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    I need to do some research first but wasn't something passed in the past few months that allowed bikers to use a full 1/3 of the road way and not be relegated to the gutter? It also went through with the change to allow a right turn signal by a biker to be a point to the right with the right hand and not the left hand up?

    Correct me if I am wrong and from earlier posts I am sure someone will, but aren't bikes not allowed on SIDEWALKS?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Daddy
    I need to do some research first but wasn't something passed in the past few months that allowed bikers to use a full 1/3 of the road way and not be relegated to the gutter? It also went through with the change to allow a right turn signal by a biker to be a point to the right with the right hand and not the left hand up?

    Correct me if I am wrong and from earlier posts I am sure someone will, but aren't bikes not allowed on SIDEWALKS?
    Bikes are indeed illegal on most city sidewalks.

  24. #24
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    Statute regarding operation of a bicycle in Colorado

    http://bicyclecolo.org/page.cfm?PageID=45

    Just an interesting read . . .

  25. #25
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    Maybe someone should site the actual law...

    ...instead of pulling half baked information out of their a$$. It took me all of 3 minutes to find.

    from Colorado Statutes : TITLE 42 VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC : REGULATION OF VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC : ARTICLE 4 REGULATION OF VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC : PART 14 OTHER OFFENSES : 42-4-1412. Operation of bicycles and other human-powered vehicles.

    Operation of bicycles and other human-powered vehicles

    (1) Every person riding a bicycle shall have all of the rights and duties applicable to the driver of any other vehicle under this article, except as to special regulations in this article and except as to those provisions which by their nature can have no application. Said riders shall comply with the rules set forth in this section and section 42-4-221, and when using streets and highways within incorporated cities and towns, shall be subject to local ordinances regulating the operation of bicycles as provided in section 42-4-111.

    (2) It is the intent of the general assembly that nothing contained in House Bill No. 1246, enacted at the second regular session of the fifty-sixth general assembly, shall in any way be construed to modify or increase the duty of the department of transportation or any political subdivision to sign or maintain highways or sidewalks or to affect or increase the liability of the state of Colorado or any political subdivision under the "Colorado Governmental Immunity Act", article 10 of title 24, C.R.S.

    (3) No bicycle shall be used to carry more persons at one time than the number for which it is designed or equipped.

    (4) No person riding upon any bicycle shall attach the same or himself to any motor vehicle upon a roadway.

    (5) Any person riding a bicycle shall ride in the right-hand lane. When being overtaken by another vehicle, such person shall ride as close to the right-hand side as practicable. Where a paved shoulder suitable for bicycle riding is present, persons operating bicycles shall ride on the paved shoulder. These provisions shall apply, except under any of the following situations:
    (a) When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction;
    (b) When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway;
    (c) When reasonably necessary to avoid hazardous conditions, including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, parked or moving vehicles, pedestrians, animals, or surface hazards.

    (6)(a) Persons operating bicycles on roadways shall ride single file; except that riding no more than two abreast is permitted in the following circumstances:
    (i)When riding two abreast will not impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic; or
    (ii)When riding on paths or parts of roadways set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles.
    (b) Persons riding two abreast shall ride within a single lane.

    (7) A person operating a bicycle shall keep at least one hand on the handlebars at all times.

    (8)(a) A person riding a bicycle intending to turn left shall follow a course described in sections 42-4-901 (1), 42-4-903, and 42-4-1007 or may make a left turn in the manner prescribed in paragraph (b) of this subsection (8).
    (b) A person riding a bicycle intending to turn left shall approach the turn as closely as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway. After proceeding across the intersecting roadway to the far corner of the curb or intersection of the roadway edges, the bicyclist shall stop, as much as practicable, out of the way of traffic. After stopping, the bicyclist shall yield to any traffic proceeding in either direction along the roadway the bicyclist had been using. After yielding and complying with any official traffic control device or police officer regulating traffic on the highway along which he intends to proceed, the bicyclist may proceed in the new direction.
    (c) Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraphs (a) and (b) of this subsection (8), the transportation commission and local authorities in their respective jurisdictions may cause official traffic control devices to be placed on roadways and thereby require and direct that a specific course be traveled.

    (9)(a) Except as otherwise provided in this subsection (9), every person riding a bicycle shall signal his intention to turn or stop in accordance with the provisions of section 42-4-903; except that a person riding a bicycle may signal a right turn with the right arm extended horizontally.
    (b) A signal of intention to turn right or left when required shall be given continuously during not less than the last one hundred feet traveled by the bicycle before turning and shall be given while the bicycle is stopped waiting to turn. A signal by hand and arm need not be given continuously if the hand is needed in the control or operation of the bicycle.

    (10)(a) A person riding a bicycle upon and along a sidewalk or pathway or across a roadway upon and along a crosswalk shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian and shall give an audible signal before overtaking and passing such pedestrian. A person riding a bicycle in a crosswalk shall do so in a manner that is safe for pedestrians.
    (b) A person shall not ride a bicycle upon and along a sidewalk or pathway or across a roadway upon and along a crosswalk where such use of bicycles is prohibited by official traffic control devices or local ordinances. A person riding a bicycle shall dismount before entering any crosswalk where required by official traffic control devices or local ordinances.
    (c) A person riding or walking a bicycle upon and along a sidewalk or pathway or across a roadway upon and along a crosswalk shall have all the rights and duties applicable to a pedestrian under the same circumstances, including, but not limited to, the rights and duties granted and required by section 42-4-802.

    (11)(a) A person may park a bicycle on a sidewalk unless prohibited or restricted by an official traffic control device or local ordinance.
    (b) A bicycle parked on a sidewalk shall not impede the normal and reasonable movement of pedestrian or other traffic.
    (c) A bicycle may be parked on the road at any angle to the curb or edge of the road at any location where parking is allowed.
    (d) A bicycle may be parked on the road abreast of another bicycle or bicycles near the side of the road or any location where parking is allowed in such a manner as does not impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic.
    (e) In all other respects, bicycles parked anywhere on a highway shall conform to the provisions of part 11 of this article regulating the parking of vehicles.

    (12)(a) Any person who violates any provision of this section commits a class 2 misdemeanor traffic offense; except that section 42-2-127 shall not apply.
    (b) Any person riding a bicycle who violates any provision of this article other than this section which is applicable to such a vehicle and for which a penalty is specified shall be subject to the same specified penalty as any other vehicle; except the section 42-2-127 shall not apply.

    (13) Upon request, the law enforcement agency having jurisdiction shall complete a report concerning an injury or death incident that involves a bicycle on the roadways of the state, even if such accident does not involve a motor vehicle.

  26. #26
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    Sorry, my link came in right after you posted, goes to the same thing.

    This one has more info as well

    http://bicyclecolo.org/page.cfm?PageID=64

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamoNNomaD
    legislation is what makes it a privilage to me... and the fact is that it IS regulated .... Biking on public roads may seem like a "inherent right" in your little world, but not in the grand scheme of the system.
    This is the dumbest thing I ever heard. Of course there are regulations! Every right has restrictions. Even constitutional rights have restrictions. The ubiquitous example is yelling "fire" in a crowded theater. Can't do that so I guess we don't have the right to free speech. So, property rights are not really rights because there are laws governing them and the gov't can seize property as law allows. Poof, they are gone too with a swift blow from your logic. People who are violate laws can actually have their right to peacefully assemble restricted....Guess those don't exist either.

    You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. You are giving your opinion but too obtuse to see (or research) what constitutes the difference between a right and privilege.

    I'm going to spell it out to you very, very clearly....The public has the right to utilize public lands (and roadways). You are born with this right. As with all rights, it is governed - there are laws to dictate how you can use them. Driving is an act that requires licensing. You are granted the ability to operate a motor vehicle once you have satisfied the requirements. It is explicit. You are not born with this "right"...it is considered a 'privilege' and given to you. It is revocable. Cycling is akin to foot traffic. There is no licensing in either case. A five year old can ride his bike or walk on the city streets. He needs no permission - his birth is enough - he does need to follow traffic laws. No explicit permission needed. The public has the right to travel - to access public areas - it's common law. Case closed.

    From:http://www.bicycledriving.com/motorists.htm

    "There is a common law right for anyone to use the public roads. Driving a motor vehicle can create a public danger and therefore is a privilege that can be revoked."

    BTW - you can cycle on large sections of I-70. Make up some more stuff while you are at it.

    Narrow world? Guess you know me.

    Ps: Judging by your other posts, I think you are a jerk. Guess I know you.

    "The use of the highways for the purpose of travel and transportation is not a mere privilege, but a common and fundamental Right of which the public and the individual cannot be rightfully deprived." [emphasis added] Chicago Motor Coach vs. Chicago, 169 NE 22; Ligare vs. Chicago, 28 NE 934; Boon vs. Clark, 214 SSW 607; 25 Am.Jur. (1st) Highways Sect.163

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Mega
    This is the dumbest thing I ever heard.
    Dang. You lost me right there. I think I saw you call me a "jerk" as I snipped the rest of your quote.... that's nice. Seems like I made the right call...

  29. #29
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    "Narrow world? Guess you know me.

    Ps: Judging by your other posts, I think you are a jerk. Guess I know you."


    Regarding DamoNNomaD, I think he just has to be playing devils advocate, I mean how else could someone who participates in such a cool activity be so negative?!?

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by schwing_ding
    ...instead of pulling half baked information out of their a$$. It took me all of 3 minutes to find.
    It doesn't get into the whole right vs privilege thing cause that is already settled common law and quite a broad topic but I do find it interesting that they use the term "rights" and never use the word "privilege".

    And this is quite funny:

    (12)(a) Any person who violates any provision of this section commits a class 2 misdemeanor traffic offense; except that section 42-2-127 shall not apply.
    (b) Any person riding a bicycle who violates any provision of this article other than this section which is applicable to such a vehicle and for which a penalty is specified shall be subject to the same specified penalty as any other vehicle; except the section 42-2-127 shall not apply

    What is section 42-2-127 and why is not appliciable?

    Oh, that's just the part where they can revoke your driving privilege. Can't do that on a bicycle cause it's not licensed and, ummm, falls under a common law right to access. In other words, it's not revocable like a privilege is. Wowsers.

    http://www.revenue.state.co.us/heari...?incl=42-2-127

    Cheers.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamoNNomaD
    Dang. You lost me right there. I think I saw you call me a "jerk" as I snipped the rest of your quote.... that's nice. Seems like I made the right call...
    Must be a great to bury your head in the sand when facts don't back up your distorted world view.

    Here's another killer to your wild claims:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...75268#poststop

    Game. Set. And match.

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    I'm sorry. I have no reasons to discuss the topic with someone with the hostilities that you have. It is simple a waste of my time. If you would like to resume the discussion you can apologize for your behavior. I will gladly continue then. Until then you are talking to yourself. I hope that whatever choice you make, you are happy with yourself in the end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Daddy
    "Narrow world? Guess you know me.

    Ps: Judging by your other posts, I think you are a jerk. Guess I know you."


    Regarding DamoNNomaD, I think he just has to be playing devils advocate, I mean how else could someone who participates in such a cool activity be so negative?!?
    I am playing a little devil's advocate, but if you really think it through, what we have been told about bikes and the road system in America is not alltogether true. Bikes do have some serious limitations in concern to safe interstate travel that puts a burden on peoples idea that they carry the inherent right to be ridden on the roadways.

    Anyone that does Colorado road rides is acutely aware of how close they are to being literally ran off the roads of that state. Ride America... it is hardly different.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamoNNomaD
    I'm sorry.
    Accepted.

    I forgot you were above name-calling.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...91#post1765191


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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Mega
    Accepted.

    I forgot you were above name-calling.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...91#post1765191

    I didn't think you had the sack. Go back to checkers kid.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamoNNomaD
    I'm sorry you have trouble with facts. That is what happens when you have been told lies about the subject matter your entire life. Now you refuse the truth.

    It doesn't have anything to do with me.

    Riding bikes on roads is a privilage that can be snapped away at virtually anytime for any reason. Driving is also a privilage. There are regulations on both that don't make them inherint rights by nature.

    These are facts. If you feel you disagree with that, then please address it. There is no reason to attack me because you feel uncomfortable with the truth. I can handle it though. You obviously need someone to project on until you think about it.
    How do you say I have trouble with facts WHEN I USED NONE AS I REALIZE WHAT KIND OF @$$ YOU ARE ON THE OTHER END?? Your point would be good if you had any skill in getting that across!! I actually work with many legislators on these issues so you should realize you are not always aware who you are arguing with. Also, your commentas only add to what I already know; everyone in their car being held up by a bike wants to take them out, this is what your comments reflect. Because of people like you I rarely ride road. I am educated on the subject, but you sir are just an @$$!!...Project that!!
    Black Sheep...where it'ss at!!
    "I'm not known for my patience. Patience is a polite quality and often appropriate, but it rarely gets things done. Impatience, however, is the hunger for results and intolerance for excuses and delays." LA

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    Quote Originally Posted by miSSionary
    How do you say I have trouble with facts WHEN I USED NONE...
    LOL... I guess that would be your trouble with facts then... you don't use any.


    AS I REALIZE WHAT KIND OF @$$ YOU ARE ON THE OTHER END??
    Yea right.

    Your point would be good if you had any skill in getting that across!!
    I must have skill getting it across because it sure got you thinking....

    I actually work with many legislators on these issues so you should realize you are not always aware who you are arguing with.
    I really don't care who you think you are. It is of no interest to me when I choose my words.

    Also, your commentas only add to what I already know; everyone in their car being held up by a bike wants to take them out, this is what your comments reflect.
    It is the truth isn't it? I have almost been killed in charity rides... Lift-Up in particular. Drivers that don't ride have no respect for riders, and drivers that ARE riders hardly do. I have no issue with my words reflecting truth.

    Because of people like you I rarely ride road. I am educated on the subject, but you sir are just an @$$!!...Project that!!


    Because of riders like me, you rarely ride the road? Or is it just "people" like me? What do I do that could possibly effect you so? I should be flattered, but the irrationality of the situation for you is a bit sad. I think the projection statement that I made, and you used, might have hit a little close to home for you.

    Who knows what you are talking about or afraid of....

  38. #38
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    DammoNNomaD,
    You clearly have too much time on your hands and are obviously on here more than the bike. I am done arguing with you...have fun twisting everyone's words!! BTW~ I have no fear of you or those like you...I am off to ride my bike, too bad you will be here bashing your fellow cycling user group and not riding!!
    Black Sheep...where it'ss at!!
    "I'm not known for my patience. Patience is a polite quality and often appropriate, but it rarely gets things done. Impatience, however, is the hunger for results and intolerance for excuses and delays." LA

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    Ahh I love the internet. Very impressive Carl. Always interesting to see how long a troll will argue when faced with solid logical arguement one after another....

  40. #40
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    interesting argument, it reminds of those stupid bumper stickers:
    "Share the road, share the taxes"
    Could you imagine how much money it would cost to issue bicycle operator licenses and how much it would cost to enforce that. What a waste of resources, maintain trails instead. That sort of thing would also discourage people from getting into the sport, with obesity at an all time high do we need to give someone another excuse to not get active?

    Oh yeah and the original topic, the Alice morning show is not very good in my opinion. This just points out that they don't know how their audience is going to react. I guess this is what you get when you hire DJ's from other states and they aren't familiar with the lifestyle in Colorado, I once heard them call CU "Colorado University", come on figure it out (they even had a sex scandal all over the media and the DJ's didn't pick up through all of it that it's the University of Colorado). They just seem very out of touch with their surroundings to me.

  41. #41
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    The image of a troll... The avatar fits!

    In his own words:
    Quote Originally Posted by DamoNNomaD
    I am playing a little devil's advocate
    = Troll, as you are dodging the facts (laws) presented.

    DamoNNomaD, you had an interesting point to begin with, but then you blew it up and started embarrasing yourself.

    Unfortunately, the original thread, about "the encitement of rage against cyclists" has been hijacked. It's important to call out this station. See here:
    Road Rage On Page Mill Road
    Last edited by Mr.P; 04-19-2006 at 09:46 AM.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by nepbug
    interesting argument, it reminds of those stupid bumper stickers:
    "Share the road, share the taxes"
    Could you imagine how much money it would cost to issue bicycle operator licenses and how much it would cost to enforce that. What a waste of resources, maintain trails instead. That sort of thing would also discourage people from getting into the sport, with obesity at an all time high do we need to give someone another excuse to not get active?
    I always thought that was funny, too. Not to mention that not 100% of road funding comes from licenses. A property owning tax paying cyclist already helps pay for the roads without a license.

    Now, where do I sign up for my refund?
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    Yeah, boy I think we really got off the thread there . . .anyways sounds like a pretty typical cheesy DJ, they get paid to talk, not think. They attempt to make up for their lack of humor with 'potty' talk trying to get laughs off overused or obvious comments about sex, body functions or any other cheap laugh topic. In this case the old 'points' system for hitting cats, dogs, grandma's, bikers, etc, I haven't used that kind of joke since about the time we all used to play "Paper Boy" at Chuck E Cheese and cracked up when you burped and farted at the same time!

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    Quote Originally Posted by miSSionary
    DammoNNomaD,
    You clearly have too much time on your hands and are obviously on here more than the bike. I am done arguing with you...have fun twisting everyone's words!! BTW~ I have no fear of you or those like you...I am off to ride my bike, too bad you will be here bashing your fellow cycling user group and not riding!!
    Pffft. It was cold and rainy/snowy yesterday. I had been on the bike for 5 days prior to that. I was on the bike all morning. I will be on the bike this afternoon after dialing some air pressures.

    You don't have to argue. If I am "twisting" your words, then maybe you can point out a specific. Maybe I misunderstood you. I have no idea why you would have to exclaim that you have no fear of me or "those like me"... I am happy though that you are not afraid. I ride more than you will ever know miss... hehe... more than you will ever know.

    Riding is the easy part. I have it good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ibmkidIII
    Ahh I love the internet. Very impressive Carl. Always interesting to see how long a troll will argue when faced with solid logical arguement one after another....
    As I have said. Ol' Carl has been forcefed that "truth" all his life. Why would he abandon it now? I never embraced the "law" regarding bikes. I never fell for the "inherint right" to ride bike on the roads of America. It is a sham... a lie. I can't jump on I-70 at Glenwood Springs and head to Vail... it is against the law. I have NO rights in regards to even short interstate travel as far as my bike is concerned. We simply can not use it.

    The truth is that any loopholed law can be changed at any time. Cities are starting to ban bikes on some of the most travelled roads.... even small rural cities. All it takes is a couple of cars smashing bikes, and it is over. Rights? What rights. You have no rights.

    But you go ahead and label me all you want. I am sorry you are uncomfortable about it. There is NO arguement when it comes to bikers losing privilages on the public roadways of America. It is a fact. Your safety is being used as the excuse, because you can't take care of yourself. Rights? What a laugh. They are sure laughing at people like Ol' Carl.

  46. #46
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    Somewhere out there is a very sad bridge....
    The more out of shape you are, the steeper the hill looks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.P
    The image of a troll... The avatar fits!

    In his own words:

    = Troll, as you are dodging the facts (laws) presented.

    DamoNNomaD, you had an interesting point to begin with, but then you blew it up and started embarrasing yourself.

    Unfortunately, the original thread, about "the encitement of rage against cyclists" has been hijacked. It's important to call out this station. See here:
    Road Rage On Page Mill Road
    Let me tell you a few things chief.

    I don't define what a "troll" is. I don't need the term. It doesn't apply to anything in my world but children's fairytales. There is nothing wrong with adding a bit of devil's advocate to a point in a discussion.

    I am not concerned in the slightest as to your idea of my embarrassment. It is impossible for me to become embarrassed on an internet forum. It simply will NEVER happen. Applying embarrassment to my words is a waste of time.

    The right or privilage of riding a bike on the roads of America is a direct relation to how people FEEL about bikes being on the roads. It has a direct coorelation to how people REACT to bikes on the roads. Determining the rights, or supposed rights of riding the roadways is essential to understanding why bikes are being kicked off the roads of America while people exclaim that there is nothing to worry about because it is their right to ride on the road.

    The sense of security some have is false. Many drivers feel that bikers should not be on the roads. They pay to use the roads as drivers. They pay licence fees. They jump through the hoops. Bikers are a danger and a distraction. Roads are not designed for bikes. Roads are being designed to limit bike usage everyday.

    I am not sure where you feel the thread should have gone, but understanding what is happening to bikers privilages in America is key to understanding where these radio shows get their topics. It is key to understanding the disdain that some have for bikers on the roads. It is key to understanding why bikers are being slowly and purposefully and quite literally... ran off the road. It is key to understanding the lies we have all been told as bikers about our "rights" to use the roads.
    Last edited by DamoNNomaD; 04-19-2006 at 01:46 PM.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibmkidIII
    Somewhere out there is a very sad bridge....
    Do you address points, or do you just label people with one-liners? If you have a problem, then be specific with it.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamoNNomaD
    The sense of security some have is false. Many drivers feel that bikers should not be on the roads. They pay to use the roads as drivers. They pay licence fees. They jump through the hoops. Bikers are a danger and a distraction. Roads are not designed for bikes. Roads are being designed to limit bike usage everyday.
    BFD, that's a red herring. As a driver, I also jump through hoops and pay license fees so what does it matter if another driver thinks I, as a cyclist, shouldn't be on the road? That's right, it doesn't matter until it's put to a vote and the majority decides what matters and what doesn't and the appropriate laws are passed. Here in Colorado, we've been through this many times and each time, cyclists rights have gained ground.

    You pay taxes & you vote and you have the same rights to the road as those driving cars, trucks, motorcycles, mopeds, walkers, hikers, you freaking name it. If you haven't noticed, they've been putting bike lanes all over Denver area roads. This summer they're even putting a bike lane on both sides of Deer Creek Canyon. Let me play devil's advocate for a sec: except for you, everyone here seems to understand how this works so just what is your special "understanding"?
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  50. #50
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    Hey James,

    Yup, this happened in Ohio - One of my dealers (lois) that owns Century Cycles fought this hard.

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...nel+lois+cowan

    This guy will hear it for sure. I've emailed this link to bicycle retailer as well.
    Front Range Forum Moderator

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    BFD, that's a red herring. As a driver, I also jump through hoops and pay license fees so what does it matter if another driver thinks I, as a cyclist, shouldn't be on the road? That's right, it doesn't matter until it's put to a vote and the majority decides what matters and what doesn't and the appropriate laws are passed. Here in Colorado, we've been through this many times and each time, cyclists rights have gained ground.
    I don't know what to say. Money is now a "red herring"? This amazes me. Cyclist rights are being taken away in many states. Colorado might be more progressive than others with bikes, but it is not the norm. It doesn't mean it will continue to be the norm either as we micro-manage our society into oblivion.

    I'll tell you right now that if USAA wanted bikes off the roads, it would only take them a few decades to make it happen. They would find more support in money than someone would find against it. The biking population is relatively small when you look at vehicle use on the roads.

    You pay taxes & you vote and you have the same rights to the road as those driving cars, trucks, motorcycles, mopeds, walkers, hikers, you freaking name it. If you haven't noticed, they've been putting bike lanes all over Denver area roads. This summer they're even putting a bike lane on both sides of Deer Creek Canyon. Let me play devil's advocate for a sec: except for you, everyone here seems to understand how this works so just what is your special "understanding"?
    Why? Why does paying the same taxes as the drivers pay MINUS the extra fees and taxes they pay to actually DRIVE on the roads give me the "same rights" as those driving? Bikers don't pay what licensed drivers pay. They pay LESS.

    Bike lanes are fine in Denver. I have no issue with bike lanes. Bike lanes do not mean that bikers have inherent rights to ride on the road. Just go ask the police if you can still ride on the ROAD without using the "bike lane". Ask if it is legal... Then ask where your rights went...

    I understand how it works allright. You should to. Go ask the police. Ask them if it is legal to ride on the road, and not use the bike lane. If it is not illegal today, it will be tomorrow. Where does it start and where does it end? You won't even know it because you have the bike lane.... there anyway. It is just another tactic to take bikers privilages/rights away at will.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamoNNomaD
    Pffft. It was cold and rainy/snowy yesterday.
    TROLL is right. It didn't rain in Denver yesterday, and it sure as hell didn't snow. Any body who lives here knows that. So who ever this doofus is one things for sure-- He needs a better weather website. Troll on doofus!

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    Let me play devil's advocate for a sec: except for you, everyone here seems to understand how this works so just what is your special "understanding"?
    That special understanding is the decision to be willfully ignorant. His argument has more holes than a bag full of donuts. I'm not getting suckered in again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frantix
    TROLL is right. It didn't rain in Denver yesterday, and it sure as hell didn't snow. Any body who lives here knows that. So who ever this doofus is one things for sure-- He needs a better weather website. Troll on doofus!
    Wow... I don't live in Denver.

    I live up in the hills at 8,000'. Believe me. It rained, snowed, was windy as hell, and was below freezing. I took a day off from riding the bike. OMG! FREAK OUT! I am still snowboarding up here...

    I find it amazing. People on this forum just make things up in their head, and then instantly believe it as fact. Do all of you really need that kind of crutch to express yourselves? If you sensitive people aren't justifying your constant use of the term, "troll", you are making things up about others to crutch your way around your emotions and your lack of ability to iterate what you would like to convey... absolutely pathetic. It happens in all forums, but it is out of this world around here.

    Who said I lived in Denver? I certainly didn't. You made it up, and you believed it. Way to go.

    You are about as sharp as a marble.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Mega
    That special understanding is the decision to be willfully ignorant. His argument has more holes than a bag full of donuts. I'm not getting suckered in again.
    My argument has NO holes whatsoever.



    Amazing.

  56. #56
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    Mumbler!

    Seriously, I cannot understand a word you're saying! It's starting to bum me out.

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    No, you can't understand can you, but you do read and comprehend... Then what do you do?

    You reply... just like you just did. I could probably make you do anything I wanted. No constitution. I can smell the fear...

    Keep thinking that the powers that be want you to have the "rights" to ride your bike on the roads. The topic should smack you in the face. Colorado! A healthy state! A biking state! Yet still the fat company DJ disses the bike?

    All the while things are caving in for bikes all over the place in many aspects of the law. There is no reason to ignore it as that would not be a healthy decision. There is also no reason to deny it, as you would have nothing to gain from doing so.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamoNNomaD
    I don't know what to say. Money is now a "red herring"? This amazes me. Cyclist rights are being taken away in many states. Colorado might be more progressive than others with bikes, but it is not the norm. It doesn't mean it will continue to be the norm either as we micro-manage our society into oblivion.
    So money is now your argument?


    Quote Originally Posted by DamoNNomaD
    I'll tell you right now that if USAA wanted bikes off the roads, it would only take them a few decades to make it happen. They would find more support in money than someone would find against it. The biking population is relatively small when you look at vehicle use on the roads.
    And if AARP wanted to turn us into a communist country that too could happen in a couple decades. Again, what's your point? That things could change if there is a groundswell of public opinion? You're very perceptive to the obvious.



    Quote Originally Posted by DamoNNomaD
    Why? Why does paying the same taxes as the drivers pay MINUS the extra fees and taxes they pay to actually DRIVE on the roads give me the "same rights" as those driving? Bikers don't pay what licensed drivers pay. They pay LESS.
    Dude, do you have a driver's license? I do. That means I pay the same fees as a "driver." Is that point lost on you? How many of the cyclist out there on the road do you think don't also own cars and have driver's licenses? Are you intentionally being this dense?

    Quote Originally Posted by DamoNNomaD
    Bike lanes are fine in Denver. I have no issue with bike lanes. Bike lanes do not mean that bikers have inherent rights to ride on the road. Just go ask the police if you can still ride on the ROAD without using the "bike lane". Ask if it is legal... Then ask where your rights went...

    I understand how it works allright. You should to. Go ask the police. Ask them if it is legal to ride on the road, and not use the bike lane. If it is not illegal today, it will be tomorrow. Where does it start and where does it end? You won't even know it because you have the bike lane.... there anyway. It is just another tactic to take bikers privilages/rights away at will.
    Yes, you can still use the road even though there is a bike lane. The bike lane are there to give cyclist a buffer in high traffic areas and the nicest thing about a bike lane is that cars can't use them.

    So, to address what seems to be your underlying point, in your mind, how can cyclists have irrevocable inalienable road rights? You know, something we can have that won't be illegal or taken away tomorrow? What's your guaranteed plan?
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    So money is now your argument?
    When is money NOT the argument? I have always stated that drivers pay more for the privilage to drive and that it is a powerful lobby to contend with when it comes to bikers "rights". Money makes the world go around...


    And if AARP wanted to turn us into a communist country that too could happen in a couple decades. Again, what's your point? That things could change if there is a groundswell of public opinion? You're very perceptive to the obvious.
    Yes indeed... that IS my point. Some don't think that is possible as they talk about using the roadways being an "inherent right" to bikers. The fact is that it is VERY possible and in some ways allready happening in places.

    Dude, do you have a driver's license? I do. That means I pay the same fees as a "driver." Is that point lost on you? How many of the cyclist out there on the road do you think don't also own cars and have driver's licenses? Are you intentionally being this dense?
    A driver's license is not required to ride your bike on the street at this point. I have a driver's license. It allows me to drive cars on the roads legally as long as my insurance is paid up and I have no outstanding warrants etc. It has nothing to do with bicycles. It also does not allow me to ride my motorcycle on the road. I had to take an entirely DIFFERENT test for that. I had to meet other requirements concerning insurance. For many, a safety course is absolutely mandatory. Bikers are not drivers. Bicyclists are not drivers. Either biking is a legitimate form of transportation in America, or it isn't.

    Yes, you can still use the road even though there is a bike lane. The bike lane are there to give cyclist a buffer in high traffic areas and the nicest thing about a bike lane is that cars can't use them.
    That is not true in many cases. I am not sure if it is true in this case either.

    So, to address what seems to be your underlying point, in your mind, how can cyclists have irrevocable inalienable road rights? You know, something we can have that won't be illegal or taken away tomorrow? What's your guaranteed plan?
    Take a test, and get a license. Legitimize riding on the road. Force states to comply as California does with emission standards. Build a lobby in Washington and get to the big dollars that matter to bikers and can be used for biking. If we have rights that we feel are inherent, then fight for equal usage to maintain those rights. There should be no other factor. Free up the roads. Throw some elbows. Push Always.


  60. #60
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    Tweeet.
    Red Card: DamoNNomad, Flagrant use of

    Dude, you have buggered the **** out of this thread. How do you feel about what this jackass dj said?

    Actually, don't answer that.
    I really identify with you...SO MUCH.

    "Feelin stupid? I know I am."
    "You just have to forget everything you know about gravity."
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    Cyclists have no need for asphalt, stop signs, yield signs, go here go there, photo radar, traffic lights, roadside emission tests, terrorist supporting gas stations etc... We can and do build the trails (no tax supported road crews)all we need is 12", don't pollute, don't make excessive noise, tread lightly and can accept the fact that not everyone wants to ride a bike on the trail and maybe walking suits them and they have every right that we have to be on the trail and we show them respect like we want in return! Driving a vehicle is the ultimate lack of respect you can do to society and guess what? You should pay dearly to be able to take such a noisy smelly machine and drive your lazy a$$es 5 feet away from someone at 80mph. I'll gladly pay money the day some person takes their 18# lightspeed through those annoying traffic lights,tbones a mother and her honor student in their diesel ford excursion on the way to soccer practice killing them both and then slides off the road in to the traffic light wrapping their handlebars around it and toppling it and then having the biker ride off with two more points. It just ain't going to happen! In your world what would running on the road cost vs. jogging vs walkers. after all they are on your precious road how dare they. And what about animals. maybe lawyers could position themselves to help you acquire the land the animal was born on if that animal eats too many fermented berries and gets woozy,walks on the coveted road gets in your way and takes out your headlight. Sound ridiculous! With people like you this could be our future and it really scares me that the only response to this thread should of been outrage against that radio host who thinks its funny that taking an innocent life (maybe someone who just can't afford a car and has to risk his life day in and out riding to his minimum wage job ) was worth two points. FUCX him and U

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by shabadu
    Tweeet.
    Red Card: DamoNNomad, Flagrant use of

    Dude, you have buggered the **** out of this thread. How do you feel about what this jackass dj said?

    Actually, don't answer that.



  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by starladear
    Cyclists have no need for asphalt, stop signs, yield signs, go here go there, photo radar, traffic lights, roadside emission tests, terrorist supporting gas stations etc... We can and do build the trails (no tax supported road crews)all we need is 12", don't pollute, don't make excessive noise, tread lightly and can accept the fact that not everyone wants to ride a bike on the trail and maybe walking suits them and they have every right that we have to be on the trail and we show them respect like we want in return! Driving a vehicle is the ultimate lack of respect you can do to society and guess what? You should pay dearly to be able to take such a noisy smelly machine and drive your lazy a$$es 5 feet away from someone at 80mph. I'll gladly pay money the day some person takes their 18# lightspeed through those annoying traffic lights,tbones a mother and her honor student in their diesel ford excursion on the way to soccer practice killing them both and then slides off the road in to the traffic light wrapping their handlebars around it and toppling it and then having the biker ride off with two more points. It just ain't going to happen! In your world what would running on the road cost vs. jogging vs walkers. after all they are on your precious road how dare they. And what about animals. maybe lawyers could position themselves to help you acquire the land the animal was born on if that animal eats too many fermented berries and gets woozy,walks on the coveted road gets in your way and takes out your headlight. Sound ridiculous! With people like you this could be our future and it really scares me that the only response to this thread should of been outrage against that radio host who thinks its funny that taking an innocent life (maybe someone who just can't afford a car and has to risk his life day in and out riding to his minimum wage job ) was worth two points. FUCX him and U
    Oopsie... looks like Star went off the deepend.

    Relax... it is just bikes on the road man. Put the pipe down and back away from the keyboard. You can't have BOTH points to whine about. You can't glorify the killing of a mother and her children... no.. you can't be glad to pay for the killings... and then turn around and whine "outrage" about the DJ. Do you even read your type?

    You are in SUPPORT of killing a mother and her children... for whatever stupid reason... yet you decry the DJ when he discusses it?

    Way to go. I'm sure you can form the wording that describes you on your own. You people around here seem to have no problem with your foul mouths.

    Maybe an ecucation would help you out. I just don't know.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamoNNomaD
    No, you can't understand can you, but you do read and comprehend... Then what do you do?

    You reply... just like you just did. I could probably make you do anything I wanted. No constitution. I can smell the fear...

    Keep thinking that the powers that be want you to have the "rights" to ride your bike on the roads. The topic should smack you in the face. Colorado! A healthy state! A biking state! Yet still the fat company DJ disses the bike?

    All the while things are caving in for bikes all over the place in many aspects of the law. There is no reason to ignore it as that would not be a healthy decision. There is also no reason to deny it, as you would have nothing to gain from doing so.
    Damo,
    What is your purpose behind all your responses?? I think everyone understands your view, but trying to point out how dumb someone is or their lack of knowledge is pointless. You seem to have a strong point of view which I think anyone can respect. But people feel the way they do for their own reasons.
    I'm a Roadie and I agree there is a deficiency with people out there driving or riding bikes. But the simple and easy way is to educate eachother on laws and guidelines that they may not know about.
    I think you have stated your views here and everyone hears them LOUD AND CLEAR. But why go out of your way to push your views on to another when clearly there are two different ways of looking at things?
    I have lived here all my life and I hope to stay here and as long as I do, I will probably drive a car somewhere or ride my bike. It very obvious that some drivers don't care for bikers on the road, but the best thing to do is to educate people about the usage of the road then to prove to people who is right or wrong.
    Debating is good, but it stops being good when one person believes they can get all otheres to follow in their footsteps (beliefs). Thats the great thing about living in AMERICA, the freedom to believe whatever you want.
    I'm not trying to flame anyone, I just saying you may be wasting your time trying to prove points that others clearly don't agree with.
    My point is this. I LOVE RIDING THE ROAD AND DIRT!!! I will continue to fight for these freedoms that I have now so that everyone feels even in the least bit a part of happiness.
    If I was told today that I couldn't ride the road, I would do whatever I could to prevent that from being a fact.

    Bikergal!
    Ride Fast, Take Chances!

  65. #65
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    Waaaaiiiiiit a minute. 514, is that you?

  66. #66
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    Topical: Three pieces from Bob Mionske - Velonews law expert

    First: The right to bicycle: http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/5003.0.html

    Second: The skinny on bicycles as traffic: http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/9772.0.html

    Thrid: Shock Jock anti-bicycle: http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/5058.0.html

    If you are interested in this thread it probably makes sense to read these articles. I know of atleast one person who won't bother and thus remain hopelessly ignorant.

  67. #67
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    I don't post often, but this issue is worth commenting on. I did not hear the radio broadcast but I'm sure it started out with good intentions. Unfortunately, it's a morning show full of idiots, one reason I have XM. These DJ's will exploit any issue to get ratings. Back to the issue at heart. Why does share the road not apply to roadies?

    I frequent Chatfield Resevoir every weekend to take my dogs to the off leash area. The short drive from the gate to the dog park is more stressfull than my daily commute to work. The amount of road bikers that feel they own the road there is ridiculous. They constantly ride two abreast while cars and trucks towing boats try to manuever around them to get to their destination and enjoy the park they paid to get into.

    There is a bike path there - Roadies won't use it (I heard it's too bumpy)
    There is a bike lane - Roadies ride on the white line or to the left of it (Too sandy?)
    There is a road - Roadies ride in the middle to avoid potholes

    So where are the cars supposed to go? They line up behind group after group of riders that, because they're not Lance can't keep a 25mph pace. This gets more absurd when these guys try to attack the hill going over the resevoir. Um, yeah you can stand up, but you're doing like 10mph. Please, please keep it to the right. Now these are just some of my nitpicks about road bikers. Here's another. Do you know where these roadies park their cars to ride in Chatfield? Of course you do. The dirt lot on Deer Creek Canyon. Then they ride across Wadsworth against the red (who has time to wait?) and get upset when a motorist doing the speed limit honks at them.

    Now I find this interesting. The state parks are struggling for money, but they still manage to put a bike lane in at Chatfield, even though there is um....bike paths. Who helps pay for this? Not the bikers, they are too cheap to cough up the $5 to park in Chatfield. A park pass? Who has the money after buying all that lycra? It is the other recreational users of the park that end up paying for bikers ammenities that are disregarded.

    You might be surprised that I actually ride a bike, but I do. Which is why I get so upset about this. Not all road bikers are blatant about disregarding law and common courtesy, but it's close to 75% from what I see. Guess what? That makes you a target. It also makes many safe bike riders a target too.

    I just wanted to chime in with my thoughts. Share the road should apply to both sides. Respect the rules, and respect should be returned. Oh, if only that Utopian world existed.
    Last edited by silverstreak; 04-20-2006 at 08:44 AM.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamoNNomaD
    Take a test, and get a license. Legitimize riding on the road. Force states to comply as California does with emission standards. Build a lobby in Washington and get to the big dollars that matter to bikers and can be used for biking. If we have rights that we feel are inherent, then fight for equal usage to maintain those rights. There should be no other factor. Free up the roads. Throw some elbows. Push Always.
    So why didn't you just say this in your first post? Would of saved you (and us) a lot of bickering.
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikergal
    Damo,
    What is your purpose behind all your responses??
    This is a discussion forum... What is YOUR purpose? Yours is not to reason why. Why would you even worry about it?


    I think everyone understands your view, but trying to point out how dumb someone is or their lack of knowledge is pointless.
    Maybe it is worthless to YOU. I find more worth than that. I don't epcept you to understand the worth that I find. You can try and understand me, or you can decide that it is "pointless". It doesn't matter. It is not about me, it is about you.

    You seem to have a strong point of view which I think anyone can respect. But people feel the way they do for their own reasons.
    I'm a Roadie and I agree there is a deficiency with people out there driving or riding bikes. But the simple and easy way is to educate eachother on laws and guidelines that they may not know about.
    I think you have stated your views here and everyone hears them LOUD AND CLEAR. But why go out of your way to push your views on to another when clearly there are two different ways of looking at things?
    Hmmm... Because? Listen, this is a forum of DISCUSSION. I am sorry you don't like the discussion, but that is the way it is.

    I have lived here all my life and I hope to stay here and as long as I do, I will probably drive a car somewhere or ride my bike. It very obvious that some drivers don't care for bikers on the road, but the best thing to do is to educate people about the usage of the road then to prove to people who is right or wrong.
    Debating is good, but it stops being good when one person believes they can get all otheres to follow in their footsteps (beliefs). Thats the great thing about living in AMERICA, the freedom to believe whatever you want.
    I'm not trying to flame anyone, I just saying you may be wasting your time trying to prove points that others clearly don't agree with.
    My point is this. I LOVE RIDING THE ROAD AND DIRT!!! I will continue to fight for these freedoms that I have now so that everyone feels even in the least bit a part of happiness.
    If I was told today that I couldn't ride the road, I would do whatever I could to prevent that from being a fact.

    Bikergal!
    See! That wasn't so bad! Maybe that type of respone is my purpose... I am just taking a tiny point and bringing up what could be underlying issues that are more important than one DJ playing the points game with bikes on the roads.

    My broad point is that bikes are not as protected on the roads as some might think they are due to feeling that riding on the roads is an inherent right. It is a great argument. It is classic. It is also being tested nationwide in small but significant ways.

    I hope that as we move into a new world after Peak Oil, that we can create an infrastructure for mechanized travel on whatever our roadways might be called. The time to plan for that is now. The time to make it a priority is now.

    The DJ is just one viewpoint in our current and archaic form of transporting people. I can only hope that people will heed the comments as an unnerving warning about where America might be headed after the world of fossil fuel. The level of preparedness that needs to be practiced NOW so we can avoid the pitfalls of the future.

    And then again, maybe my own thoughts derived from others posts is my purpose. In the end, the discourse is good. The arguments are good. The conversation is the catalyst. That is what the forum is for.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverstreak
    they are too cheap to cough up the $5 to park in Chatfield. A park pass? Who has the money after buying all that lycra? .
    Hey, lycra isn't THAT expensive, LOL

    Seriously, though, any time you have large groups of bikers, either on the road or off, it creates more problems than if we were just spread out as small groups or individuals. Large MTB groups on the trail annoy hikers more than a solitary rider. The same is true of a pack of roadies and a driver. Some group rides around Chatfield have a bad reputation for creating problems with traffic. I find most of my best rides, road or trail, are solo. I've almost never had altercations with automobiles when I'm by myself.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverstreak
    I don't post often, but this issue is worth commenting on. I did not hear the radio broadcast but I'm sure it started out with good intentions. Unfortunately, it's a morning show full of idiots, one reason I have XM. These DJ's will exploit any issue to get ratings. Back to the issue at heart. Why does share the road not apply to roadies?

    I frequent Chatfield Resevoir every weekend to take my dogs to the off leash area. The short drive from the gate to the dog park is more stressfull than my daily commute to work. The amount of road bikers that feel they own the road there is ridiculous. They constantly ride two abreast while cars and trucks towing boats try to manuever around them to get to their destination and enjoy the park they paid to get into.

    There is a bike path there - Roadies won't use it (I heard it's too bumpy)
    There is a bike lane - Roadies ride on the white line or to the left of it (Too sandy?)
    There is a road - Roadies ride in the middle to avoid potholes

    So where are the cars supposed to go? They line up behind group after group of riders that, because they're not Lance can't keep a 25mph pace. This gets more absurd when these guys try to attack the hill going over the resevoir. Um, yeah you can stand up, but you're doing like 10mph. Please, please keep it to the right. Now these are just some of my nitpicks about road bikers. Here's another. Do you know where these roadies park their cars to ride in Chatfield? Of course you do. The dirt lot on Deer Creek Canyon. Then they ride across Wadsworth against the red (who has time to wait?) and get upset when a motorist doing the speed limit honks at them.

    Now I find this interesting. The state parks are struggling for money, but they still manage to put a bike lane in at Chatfield, even though there is um....bike paths. Who helps pay for this? Not the bikers, they are too cheap to cough up the $5 to park in Chatfield. A park pass? Who has the money after buying all that lycra? It is the other recreational users of the park that end up paying for bikers ammenities that are disregarded.

    You might be surprised that I actually ride a bike, but I do. Which is why I get so upset about this. Not all road bikers are blatant about disregarding law and common courtesy, but it's close to 75% from what I see. Guess what? That makes you a target. It also makes many safe bike riders a target too.

    I just wanted to chime in with my thoughts. Share the road should apply to both sides. Respect the rules, and respect should be returned. Oh, if only that Utopian world existed.
    Interesting post because I live right behind Chatfield off the rear entrance. I agree with some of what you say; I drive through Chatfield many times a week and I see a lot of ignorant roadies in the park, but I'd put it more at 10-15%. I also see a lot of drivers who're driving through at 50-mph and others who need a good beat down. It's a freaking park, it's for recreation, who should be in such a hurry?

    I have two annual passes so I pay for my share as do many of the roadies that I know who ride their regularly. Most park their cars at the swim beach parking lot or by the stables. Most of the Deer Creek parkers are riding Deer Creek. Lots more folks come in by the cement plant off the Platte bike path. They did extend the shoulder for a portion of the Chatfield road, but only those areas going up the approach to the dam and boat launch. No place else and I wouldn't call if a bike lane, it's just a decent shoulder. To use your own argument against you, I see a lot of the Dog folks parking at the free lot over the bridge and walking over to the park. Maybe it's just the campers & boater's who're footing the bill for everybody?
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamoNNomaD
    This is a discussion forum... What is YOUR purpose? Yours is not to reason why. Why would you even worry about it?




    Maybe it is worthless to YOU. I find more worth than that. I don't epcept you to understand the worth that I find. You can try and understand me, or you can decide that it is "pointless". It doesn't matter. It is not about me, it is about you.



    Hmmm... Because? Listen, this is a forum of DISCUSSION. I am sorry you don't like the discussion, but that is the way it is.



    See! That wasn't so bad! Maybe that type of respone is my purpose... I am just taking a tiny point and bringing up what could be underlying issues that are more important than one DJ playing the points game with bikes on the roads.

    My broad point is that bikes are not as protected on the roads as some might think they are due to feeling that riding on the roads is an inherent right. It is a great argument. It is classic. It is also being tested nationwide in small but significant ways.

    I hope that as we move into a new world after Peak Oil, that we can create an infrastructure for mechanized travel on whatever our roadways might be called. The time to plan for that is now. The time to make it a priority is now.

    The DJ is just one viewpoint in our current and archaic form of transporting people. I can only hope that people will heed the comments as an unnerving warning about where America might be headed after the world of fossil fuel. The level of preparedness that needs to be practiced NOW so we can avoid the pitfalls of the future.

    And then again, maybe my own thoughts derived from others posts is my purpose. In the end, the discourse is good. The arguments are good. The conversation is the catalyst. That is what the forum is for.

    Yes, this is a discussion forum and I DO like discussion, I guess I just don't like the way you are going about it. Which is fine, that is my problem. I just think you could handle it in a different manner.

    I'm not here to fight or flame ANYONE, we all deserve the right to speak our minds. So carry on with your thoughts and try to have a nice day.

    Peace out!!
    Bikergal
    Ride Fast, Take Chances!

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Mega
    I know of atleast one person who won't bother and thus remain hopelessly ignorant.
    Are you talking about me?




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  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikergal
    Yes, this is a discussion forum and I DO like discussion, I guess I just don't like the way you are going about it. Which is fine, that is my problem. I just think you could handle it in a different manner.

    I'm not here to fight or flame ANYONE, we all deserve the right to speak our minds. So carry on with your thoughts and try to have a nice day.

    Peace out!!
    Bikergal
    I know. I offer a sour pill 90% of the time. That is just the way I do it.

    If I handled it differently, we wouldn't be here right now. When I fight, I expect to see blood, and I don't even define "flaming". I like to pontificate and discuss and I often do take a devil's advocate stance. I don't mind arguing from an unpopular position so often I find myself going against the grain of the "party line" so to speak, but that is a good thing. It can often create debate where there wasn't any. I mean, who wants to slap everyone on the back junk-talking on the out of touch radio DJ all thread? How many times have we heard the same thing in our lives? Walkers 5pts, Bikers 10pts, Old Ladies 50pts...

    It is all a good time, and none of it should ever be taken all that seriously. If I took half of the BS I spewed as seriously as it sounded and as some take it, I would indeed be one sick pup. It is just a DJ's comments. Just bikes on the road.

    I guess if it is a desire by some to judge me for my methods, in their own way, then it is fair enough judgement for me.


  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamoNNomaD
    Do you address points, or do you just label people with one-liners?
    One liners...

    The more out of shape you are, the steeper the hill looks.

  76. #76
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    I once saw a poster on the net that said something like this below:
    "Fighting on the internet is like the special olympics, if you win, you are still retarded"

  77. #77
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    Ha Ha Ha

    Quote Originally Posted by Intenserider2
    I once saw a poster on the net that said something like this below:
    "Fighting on the internet is like the special olympics, if you win, you are still retarded"
    Intenserider,
    That has got to be the highlight of my day, what a great quote!!
    Black Sheep...where it'ss at!!
    "I'm not known for my patience. Patience is a polite quality and often appropriate, but it rarely gets things done. Impatience, however, is the hunger for results and intolerance for excuses and delays." LA

  78. #78
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    Walkers 5pts, Bikers 10pts, Old Ladies 50pts...

    Why are Old Ladies 50 pts? Shouldn't it be lower for slow moving targets?

    But seriously....

    I agree with DWF, there are a bunch of stupid motorists inside Chatfield. It was good to see the Park Rangers actually giving out tickets this past weekend. I saw two people pulled over on Sunday. Probably the first time I've ever seen anyone pulled over there. I stick to the speed limit to keep it safe. Here's the thing. Motorists can be held responsible for speeding and reckless driving. They face consequences. Bicyclists don't. When is the last time you saw a biker pulled over for breaking the law? It would be nearly impossible to report a dangerous cyclist to a Ranger in the park and have him follow up.

    "Look for the guy on the white bike and red jersey."

    I followed a biker once who was cruising the middle of the road to avoid the bumps for the majority of my exit. When I could finally pass, I pointed out the adjacent bike path to him. His response was to "F___ off!" Classy, I was with my parents.


    I'm happy that you and your friends do purchase park passes. I wish others would follow. I do see a number of cyclists using the Deer Creek lot for Chatfield though. Like, everyday. I travel on Wadsworth right there twice a day. It is pretty rare I don't see a biker blowing through the red to get to the Chatfield side. If I, or others honk, the response is usually the finger. Again, classy. While it's true dog owners will park in the free lot and hike over, they usually don't obstruct traffic doing it. The parking lots by the off leash area are also close to maxed out every weekend by paying customers.

    As far as the bike lane goes, it has a stripe and a bicycle painted on it and is plenty wide. I'm pretty sure that's a lane. It's far better than what's being added on Rooney Road. That is pretty rough, even on a MTB. But it's there and I'll use it.....as far to the right as I can. I hope that the bike lane added to Deer Creek will be a decent one. More so, I hope it will be utilized. When I drive to Deer Creek to MTB, I'll get on 470 at Wadsworth and exit Kipling just to avoid the bike traffic on the road. The road bikers there think share the road means wait behind them while they piddle along at 15mph. Um, can you not hear the rumble strips as cars try to squeeze around you? Is it too much of an inconvienence to pull a foot over to right? That way you still have 3 feet from the edge.

    Like I said before, bikers face no consequences from the law. They will continue to disregard responsibility until they become roadkill. That my friends, is good for no one.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverstreak
    ....Motorists can be held responsible for speeding and reckless driving. They face consequences. Bicyclists don't. When is the last time you saw a biker pulled over for breaking the law?

    <snip>

    Like I said before, bikers face no consequences from the law. They will continue to disregard responsibility until they become roadkill. That my friends, is good for no one.
    I for one have been pulled over for running a stop sign, both while driving a car, and while riding my bike. Paid the fines both times, and had my insurance company ding my rates, both times.

    Cyclists do indeed face consequences for breaking the law.
    Take the long cut, we'll get there eventually.

  80. #80
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    The police themselves disobey the law ???

    Having spent several summers doing group rides in the Vail area, there are several police officers that were on the group rides. We pedaled I-70 every week from Avon to Eagle or Gypsum. Colorado has failed it's people by not informing them of bicycists use of roads. Then because of high taxes and fees for driving, the State is reluctant to permanently remove driving priviliges from those who abuse given priviliges. Colorado gets a lot of money with the fees, then fines and then give the license back right away so they keep collecting fines.

  81. #81
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    Yikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Debaser
    I for one have been pulled over for running a stop sign, both while driving a car, and while riding my bike. Paid the fines both times, and had my insurance company ding my rates, both times.

    Cyclists do indeed face consequences for breaking the law.
    Note to self; When riding the rode stay away from Debaser...OR I'LL GET A TICKET!!
    PS~ I hate to say it but once mall security got me...in OKLAHOMA!!
    Black Sheep...where it'ss at!!
    "I'm not known for my patience. Patience is a polite quality and often appropriate, but it rarely gets things done. Impatience, however, is the hunger for results and intolerance for excuses and delays." LA

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Debaser
    I for one have been pulled over for running a stop sign, both while driving a car, and while riding my bike. Paid the fines both times, and had my insurance company ding my rates, both times.

    Cyclists do indeed face consequences for breaking the law.
    Um, wow. I didn't think it was possible for anyone to get pulled over for that here. In a car or on a bike. My experience since moving here is that red lights and stop signs are merely an option. I could start a whole other rant on driving habits, but I have work to do.

    I guess I did overstate that subject, but seriously how often are bike laws enforced? Well, besides you, hehe.

  83. #83
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    No points on your license

    Quote Originally Posted by Debaser
    I for one have been pulled over for running a stop sign, both while driving a car, and while riding my bike. Paid the fines both times, and had my insurance company ding my rates, both times.

    Cyclists do indeed face consequences for breaking the law.
    Your insurance rates should not be affected by a violation on your bike. From the Colorado driver's manual:

    Bicyclists who violate traffic laws may be subject to the
    same penalties as drivers of motor vehicles, except that
    points are not assessed against the cyclist’s driver license.
    (C.R.S. 42-4-1412)

    So you can definitely be fined, but no points go on your license and the conviction should not be on your DMV record.

    Several years ago rolled a stop sign while making a right turn. A few seconds later I was getting a lecture at 20 mph from a Colorado State Trooper on a motorcycle. Fortunately he didn't give me a ticket, and I certainly learned a lesson. I.e., look both ways before breaking the law. (Just kidding.) Actually, even last year I was coincidentally with a large group that got a lecture from Golden PD, though in that case the police officer backed down after he realized the traffic signal was defective.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by cartman
    Your insurance rates should not be affected by a violation on your bike. From the Colorado driver's manual:

    Bicyclists who violate traffic laws may be subject to the
    same penalties as drivers of motor vehicles, except that
    points are not assessed against the cyclist’s driver license.
    (C.R.S. 42-4-1412)

    So you can definitely be fined, but no points go on your license and the conviction should not be on your DMV record.

    Several years ago rolled a stop sign while making a right turn. A few seconds later I was getting a lecture at 20 mph from a Colorado State Trooper on a motorcycle. Fortunately he didn't give me a ticket, and I certainly learned a lesson. I.e., look both ways before breaking the law. (Just kidding.) Actually, even last year I was coincidentally with a large group that got a lecture from Golden PD, though in that case the police officer backed down after he realized the traffic signal was defective.
    I'm not sure what the deal is with points or whatnot, but the insurance agency definately knew that I ran a stop sign on such and such a date by running my lisense # through their system. My agent was cool about it, I showed her the ticket pointing out that the vehicle is was a Schwinn and she adjusted the rates back.
    Take the long cut, we'll get there eventually.

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    So why didn't you just say this in your first post? Would of saved you (and us) a lot of bickering.
    Save time in a discussion forum? The way to do that is to never open the website. Come on. You make the choice to read what you want. My time is never wasted, and I can't waste anyone's time on a forum that they don't choose to waste themselves.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by miSSionary
    Intenserider,
    That has got to be the highlight of my day, what a great quote!!
    THAT was the highlight of your day? A disparaging remark using the mentally handicapped as your basis for comparison?

    The highlight of your day is disgusting. Grow up.

    I stilll can't believe that to this day, not only have people not heard this idiocy in all it's pathetic forms, but people think that the idiotic and inconsiderate little "joke" is funny at all.

    Sad.

  87. #87
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    Guess what DammoNNomad...

    Point proven, thanks.
    Black Sheep...where it'ss at!!
    "I'm not known for my patience. Patience is a polite quality and often appropriate, but it rarely gets things done. Impatience, however, is the hunger for results and intolerance for excuses and delays." LA

  88. #88
    Cut Casing Whisperer
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    This is for all you DamoNNomaD fans!

    Here is an enjoyable thread, where our buddy DamoNNomaD decided to troll and gets owned twice - by doing the exact thing that he is trolling about.

    Good for a laugh. And you can see the level of intellect we are dealing with.

    Read It and Weap You Human Garbage Scum

  89. #89
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    Bring it on kids. I am stronger than ALL of you put together. You can't beat me. I will ALWAYS win... forever. Define me as you will. I will meet all your expectations.

  90. #90
    Shattering Glass
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    Lack of intellect....

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamoNNomaD
    Bring it on kids. I am stronger than ALL of you put together. You can't beat me. I will ALWAYS win... forever. Define me as you will. I will meet all your expectations.
    I think I can speak for everyone else here...take your trolling-@ss somewhere else. We're done with you. For your sake I hope you're not this annoying on the trails....

    Oh wait... ZING!
    Biker? I don't even know her.

  92. #92
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    Who would figure that someone would have to "speak for everyone here"? Speak for YOURSELF whelp. You are done with me when I say so. You obviously gave up that choice before you typed. I am only annoying on the trail if you fail to get out of my way. I am the mayor.


  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by dash
    Lack of intellect....
    Is that it? Did you fall asleep as you began typing? Am I giving you too much credit?

    Me thinks so....

  94. #94
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    So.......the original topic? Are we going to give it any more thought, or just resort to name calling?

  95. #95
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    Damn, I thought I was bored.

    I'm not minimizing the importance of the issue at hand (whatever it may be at this point), but this thread is only slightly more appealing than lancing boils from Rush Limbaugh's @ss armed only with half a staple.

    Besides, you guys appear to arguing bananas and plantains...
    Now with more vitriol!

  96. #96
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    Maybe we should hire a bicycle czar like the French....

    http://www.bicycleretailer.com/bicyc..._id=1002383236

    This way we can blame the govt for taking away our rights or privleages or duties or whatever Damo says that we have lost......
    Proud Tribe member since 1992 - looking for better singletrack to be ridden year round

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverstreak
    So.......the original topic? Are we going to give it any more thought, or just resort to name calling?
    The original post deserved about 4 replies if that. We have made it more fun.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by yetirich
    Maybe we should hire a bicycle czar like the French....

    http://www.bicycleretailer.com/bicyc..._id=1002383236

    This way we can blame the govt for taking away our rights or privleages or duties or whatever Damo says that we have lost......
    The possibility and reality is always right there around the corner. Biking on the roads is not an inherent right.

  99. #99
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    I think this sums up this thread nicely


    dont-be-late.jpg

  100. #100
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    No that doesn't sum up anything... well maybe it does... Pffft.


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