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  1. #1
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    All-around mountain bike race?

    I'm looking for the ultimate all-around mountain bike race. Combing downhill and CC with technical climbs, maybe even some drops. Basically, a race that would challenge in many different aspects of mountain bike riding. No specializations!! I'm looking for a race to determine the best all around mountain biker. And no, it wont be me...

    Does anyone know of something like that in Colorado/Utah?

  2. #2
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    Me likes this idea

    A race that is part techy master and part cross country weenie. Something like that would get me racing. I don't wear a heart monitor and shave my legs and I can't do 20 foot drops or hit gigantic gap jumps while doing a 360 barrel roll but I am decently fast up and can bomb down.

    I was thinking of something like this last year. I thought Crosstech would be a good name for it.
    Yield to downhill

  3. #3
    skillz to pay billz
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    or crossdress...


    spandex and baggies

  4. #4
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    You could call it "SuperD"
    Now with more vitriol!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla
    You could call it "SuperD"
    Ding! Give that lizard a cookie.
    You have just been mentally Rick Roll'd. Yup you're thinking about it right now aren't you? Don't fight it.

  6. #6
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    Yeah but aren't those like 10 minutes long? I was thinking something a bit longer.
    Yield to downhill

  7. #7
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    Though it's not in CO, this sorta seems like what Downieville is about.

  8. #8
    Mojo0115
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    Quote Originally Posted by PuraVida
    Yeah but aren't those like 10 minutes long? I was thinking something a bit longer.
    Open Winning time for SuperD at Angel Fire was just under 19 minutes, the winning times in the other categories were 20-22minutes and people took up to 30minutes to finish wandering in.

    At Crested Butte the times were between 12-20minutes.

    Neither of them had technical climbs however (with actual technical obstacles to over come). Angel Fire definitely had technical aspects in it's decent, Crested Butte did not (but then it's downhill is also the least technical in the series).

  9. #9
    zrm
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    Yeah, super D also involves a lift ride to the top and are short.

    To me all around mountain biking definitely involves endurance. Hour and a half of hard effort minimum, no lifts, no shuttles.

    Many years ago I did a race that had a 3-4 mile uphill time trial up a steep, baby head, rutted jeep road followed by a downhill time trial of what you just climbed. I was middle of the pack on the climb and something like third on the descent. The time I lost on the uphill didn't offset the time I gained on the descent, but it was fun regardless.

  10. #10
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    Yeah, Downieville has the all-mountain race. It's over the course of two days.

    I was hoping for a race that would be a couple hours long, cover some mileage but also have too much technical for the lycra warriors to just run with their bikes. Maybe a few scary downhill moments. Then some sweet technical climbs in there somewhere.

    I raced a NORBA downhill years ago at Breck and thought that would be a great way to start a race, at the bottom it would have been awesome to continue on to a TECHNICAL CC race.

    In other words, a race to seperate the wheat from the chaff.

    -Chaff.

  11. #11
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    And a no-dab/trials section...

    Issue would be to keep climb, trials and DH balanced so you really have to be good at each to win. Point in case: In a standard 'up the mountain and back down' the strongest climber will win. This is simply due to the fact that climbing will be the longest part of the race. A significant lead gained there (example 10% faster = 3 min on a 30 min climb) will outweigh the other areas (example 10% faster = 18 sec on a 3 min DH).
    "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit." - And I agree.

  12. #12
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    Dr/mw

    I always thought DR/MW would make for a good race like this. Up the hill to DR. Along the ridge. Over to MW. Take the low road in MW (not the switchback climb). Finish is either MW parking lot or somewhere before.
    Yield to downhill

  13. #13
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    What you are describing is close to what is being called "Enduro Racing" which was discussed in last month's issue of Decline. It is the next level of Super-D in a sense. You don't race the climbs, you do it as a group and take as long as you need. Only the downhills are timed. What you are describing would modify the Enduro so that technical climbs could be included in the timing.

    We are already working on the Enduro format here in CO and trying to find a suitable location. Non-Norba, no entry fee, and mostly for bragging rights and beer. If you know Troy Marino in Flagstaff, AZ and his races/events you will know what to expect. Great wicked hard riding, fun people, and handmade prizes.

    Of course I have my disbelief that this would work in CO since we just have an overload of way too competitive cyclists and douchebags but if kept small it will be very fun.

    Cheers, Colin

  14. #14
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    Interesting. The Enduro seems like a fun race too. Especially with the non-sanctioned aspect of it. Beer is way more of a prize than series points.

    I would still like to see a race that rewards people who can ride up hill fast though too. Kaba Klaus has a good point that the time involved in climbing up needs to balance the time coming down and the no-dab tech section would be awesome.

    I'm thinking now that with the front range being like it is with high traffic, this race would make more sense on the Western Slope or the Moab area.

    Pura Vida, I'll race you on the DR/MW course but winner buys beer. I think you'll finish fast enough to go buy the beer and bring it back so it's cold when I finish...

  15. #15
    simple
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    Also, if the OP wants a great all rounder mountain bike race I would recommend the following. The Firecracker 25/50, or Winterpark - King of the Rockies and Hermosa Creek down in Durango. Some of the Summit and Eagle series races rock also, but he best that I have ever personally done is the Squealer in Arizona. Sick technical climbing and downhilling, it is abusive!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1942
    I'm looking for the ultimate all-around mountain bike race. Combing downhill and CC with technical climbs, maybe even some drops. Basically, a race that would challenge in many different aspects of mountain bike riding. No specializations!! I'm looking for a race to determine the best all around mountain biker. And no, it wont be me...

    Does anyone know of something like that in Colorado/Utah?
    Nothing exists.

    The original 'mountain bike race' turned into a bunch of whiners asking for their own version. So now, you have it all specific to the type of racing based on the bike or ride you want.

    XC got easier and more cardio (There are no longer really good technical sections or hard downhills)
    DH made more fun going just down hill, but no more uphills... they complain about uphills
    DS and 4x... well, that's just very specific
    Trials.... yeah well...

    Super D is the dumbest compromise I've seen. I've participated in many events. Running to your bike is just not something you normally do, and the DH is like a ghey xc down hill with a climb thrown in.... Boring!

    What would be the ultimate race? Something that one particular bike wouldn't be perfect for. It would include:

    Hard ass Technical DH (Like Jam Rock, Milky way, etc), with a nice hard ass climb (but about the same amount of ratio of time). Included in my vision would have three sections of trials like moves (you get off your bike, you get time tagged on). Dab here = 30 seconds extra time. Now that would be a REAL ALL mountain bike race.... none of this panzy-azz xc downhill crap. one technical climb, and again, if you get off and push, you get time added against you.

    Nope, Norba's gone off and screwed up the original all mountain bike race... its now all categorized that doesn't really match a true all mountain day.

  17. #17
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    Okay, I guess it's not out there. I checked the Firecracker and it's really an endurance race.

    So where do we hold this race? Anyone in for getting together, racing, drinking a few beers? There is bound to be some laughing at how slow I am at each of the disciplines...

    If Porcupine in Moab had a longer technical climb, it would be perfect. Still, that would be an interesting way to go. DR/MW?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1942
    Okay, I guess it's not out there. I checked the Firecracker and it's really an endurance race.

    So where do we hold this race? Anyone in for getting together, racing, drinking a few beers? There is bound to be some laughing at how slow I am at each of the disciplines...

    If Porcupine in Moab had a longer technical climb, it would be perfect. Still, that would be an interesting way to go. DR/MW?

    I'd be game for this. I've thought about putting together a stage race of sorts... but has to be the same bike in every classifications... with exactly the same weight. So, ride up Falcon, we'll time it. Then we'll do a DH, and time that. Then we'll find some techy up's and down's, perhaps stage it with the best of three. Then do a trials section... Each Dab is a 30 second addition. Better have one hell of a trialsy DH/XC bike!

    IE

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1942
    a longer technical climb, it would be perfect. Still, that would be an interesting way to go. DR/MW?
    Not step and techy enough. Too many easy lines going around harder obstacles... but I like your line of thinking. I could rip that all day on a light-weight xc bike.

  20. #20
    zrm
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    The Firecracker course has a wide variety of types of climbing and descending. The technical parts are more steep, loose, rutted, rooted, baby head, type stuff and the one technical climb is pretty much the same. Not a lot in the big drop/ledge type stuff to that I'm thinking some here have in mind. The Breck 100 and the Fall Classic XC course are also course that require all around skills.

    I did a time trial (not race) on slickrock back in the late eighties once. That was kind of cool.

    Like some have said, There are XC races out there that require very solid all around bike handling skills, I know that the Summit County race series has several courses that have very technical climbing and descending. If you can't climb technical and if you don't have the skill to fly down steep, rocky, loose and rutted trails and roads, you won't do well.

    All that said, IMO, non technical, big gear, hammering climbs, buff single track, and fire roads are also part of mountain biking. I would be pretty difficult to come up with a course that equally divided all those qualities from a time perspective. You could get really complicated and do a series of time trials using different styles of bikes, then come up with some kind of handicapping or time multiplication system that nobody would agree on, but that's probably a can o worms left un-opened.

    It's just that over the last 10 years or so the whole DH/FR/stunt riding specialties have gone so far out there due to the equipment getting so specialized and the riders constantly upping the ante for bigger tricks and drops that it's gotten so far away from what most consider "normal" mountain biking that it's really apples and oranges comparing them.

  21. #21
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    I call BS on IE's knowledge of racing. Sorry dude you just are generalizing and not even close to accurate.

    XC and DH racing has barely changed. People have just gotten faster, bikes much much better, and the courses have generally remained the same although in most cases shorter. Since they have gotten shorter the endurance race challenge has gotten more participants looking for the old school race format. Yeah stage races have gone the way of the dodo but you can blame that on promoters trying to squeeze more events with more classifications into one short weekend.

    If you want a "race" that suits your needs but isn't a "race" then you are just better off hammering with your friends on your local trails.

    Keep in mind XC races have to be on trails that can sustain dozens if not hundreds of people all at the same time. If it is super gnar technical then most of those people are going to be walking those sections once it gets too bunched up. Try racing Mt. Snow and you'll understand.

    In order to do a gnar technical race you HAVE to do it as a time trail format. See downeville, the squealer, etc. If you have a small group you could do it with the Super D format with a sprint start.

    I've got some ideas now but it will be no whiners allowed.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69erSycip

    XC and DH racing has barely changed. People have just gotten faster, bikes much much better, and the courses have generally remained the same although in most cases shorter. Since they have gotten shorter the endurance race challenge has gotten more participants looking for the old school race format. Yeah stage races have gone the way of the dodo but you can blame that on promoters trying to squeeze more events with more classifications into one short weekend.

    Don't know about XC, but in the last 8years DH courses have gotten DRAMATICALLY more technical. And the amateur competition has become very skilled in many classes, even Sport. Yeah, there were some techy courses a few years ago, but now it is becoming the norm.

    Many of the courses in Colorado are downright scary at any speed, let alone race speed.

    I would guess the advancement in suspension designs and increased participation has a lot to do with it.

    Don't get me wrong. I'm not complaining. I love the direction DH racing is going. But you would definitely need mellower DH to attract the masses to an all-around race. The whining from the XC guys doing Super D at Angel Fire, was pretty annoying after a while. That Super D course was Bada$$.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69erSycip
    I call BS on IE's knowledge of racing. Sorry dude you just are generalizing and not even close to accurate.

    XC and DH racing has barely changed.

    Wow, strong words from someone who has never met me. Sure, I don't know crap. I suppose all the racing I did from 88 to 94 was a figment of my imagination; and the fact that I was racing top in Expert class at the time was a lie. You're right, I don't know crap. I also don't remember being invited to the worlds in Vail back in the mid 90's, I don't remember participating in the first official norba dowhhill, and I don't know crap about competing in trials either, because the broken wrists, broken ribs during competition and practice again, were all just made up.

    Participating and running races in the midwest during the full suspension infancy must be my imagination again! I dont' remember all these XC'er balking at the fact that a super techy downhill was just too hard, and it should be removed for safety reasons.

    Please don't condemn my comments without basis or knowledge of my background, you just stepped on your own d!ck.

    DH racing has changed a ton! It didn't know where it wanted to go along time ago. It started out as "Can you make it down the gnar without falling off", to DH on snow, to DH on fire roads, to finally settling in to where it is now.... which I love and participate in. Several people on this board know that I do compete and enjoy the DH Gravity Venue. Even movies like "seasons" talks about how DH started, and has become what it is today.

    XC racing changed? yeah, I'd say it has to a point. I remember the days where we would intentionally route a section through some technical gnar (for the bikes of the day), and find the hardest climb to use as well.

    And yeah, I've competed in the Super D, which is still figuring itself out. Sprinting to your bike is an effin joke, but I understand why they do it. Want to win Super D? be a good runner When we did the SD at Keystone during the G3 last year, it was harder than the normal SD. I remember the complaints coming from these "Pro xcer's"... they finished almost last as they got obliterated by DHers that know how to pedal.

    But what was asked was an ALL Mountain bike race. I retain my opinions about what happened to racing in the day (and another reason I quit xc racing all together), but I would love to see the DH and XC and trials get combined... not compromised (like super D) or split up (which is still fun for all).

    Why not have an ALL Mountain venue? Where we race down a True DH section and XC uphill? But why not throw in some technical stuff in there as well... oh, sorry, can't get off your bike and walk that section! Walk it, add 5 minutes. Ride it successfully, and you'll be rewarded for your bike skills.

    So I guess my accuracy and experience is all made up... sorry ole wise one.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickyD
    The whining from the XC guys doing Super D at Angel Fire, was pretty annoying after a while. That Super D course was Bada$$.
    waaaaaa.... someone call the waaaammmbulance!!!

    "Its too hard, I might have to buy a different bike.... waaaaa... I can't win if its not my type of course...."

    ..and hence the reason I stopped doing this venue. The DHer's are just so much more a mellow crowd, working together to pin all sorts of spots and chill with a beer later as opposed to having a fight because someone wouldn't let another pass

  25. #25
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    So Who's in? I still wanted to get my Technical Gnar uphill competition going last year, perhaps we can add to it!

  26. #26
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    Settle down IE, don't get your Depends brand DH gear in a bundle. ha!

    I said you generalized and you did. You even said for yourself that you quit XC so how would you know what modern courses are like? It sounds like you are jaded about where racing has gone which I understand, but my opinion is if you don't still love it then you are the one that changed, not the race scene. Personally it seems to me that just about anyone who tries to put on a race quickly learns how much BS there is out there and just how hard it is to evolve or even maintain the sport when it is on you and your crew's shoulders to do so.

    IE, go for the task of organizing it! My friends and I will be there for certain.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69erSycip
    Settle down IE, don't get your Depends brand DH gear in a bundle. ha!

    I said you generalized and you did. You even said for yourself that you quit XC so how would you know what modern courses are like?


    I still ride many of the courses, doesn't mean I race them. Most if it is just listening to a bunch of whinners in the parking lots, etc. I ride a ton of XC if you will, but I don't race.

    But, if it helps you any, I did race 24 hours of Moab last year. And yes, there were complaints about the Nose Dive. The did a re-route in the evening, which was good for all of us. I passed everyone on the technical sections, they passed me on the flat pedal-fast sections... then again, I raced on a 35 lb Nomad.

    Quote Originally Posted by 69erSycip
    IE, go for the task of organizing it! My friends and I will be there for certain.
    I will try. Need some ground swell... and no complainers

  28. #28
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    A few years ago there was the Golden Gate Grind. 3 laps on Mtn Lion. This was one of the more technical races I've done, and I've done plenty. I knew the course well so I would make 15 minutes on the descent. Now if only there was a time addition for dabs! There was a TT on Soveriegn Trail (Moab) a few years back, and there was a time deduction for no dabs. I seem to recall that the winner actually won due to cleaning the technical uphill section.
    I agree that this should be done very informally, just get a group together and do it. Keep it small, keep it real.
    A punctured bicycle
    on a hillside desolate,
    will nature make a man of me yet...
    -Morrissey

  29. #29
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    it isn't what was described in the OT, but the next race at winter park (mountain circuit 2) is a new course and is more narrow single track than anything else they have had in a while. the downhill part is not "wide open and let 'er rip". i think it will be a good old school race.

  30. #30
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    If you build it I will come

    and even help make it happen.

    I am down for a race like we have been discussing.
    Yield to downhill

  31. #31
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    I'm in. Although I think we should come up with a prize for the slowest over-all time by the person who really tries. Yes, I think that would most likely be me!

    I.E. I sent you a PM./

  32. #32
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    Save your pennies and buy a ticket to the Megavalanche. It has all that you ask for. Cardio, tech, jumps,distance and its done on a 6in travel bike.

  33. #33
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    Hey all rounders...got an idea.

    I like whats going on here(looking beyond the petty arguing). I think there is promise in this type of race and i've got a proposal for you.

    Jeff Wescott (www.mavsports.com) runs the Peaks time trial. I haven't done it in a couple of years but I really really enjoyed it when I did it because it had some very technical sections in it.

    The year that I remember doing it they started from frisco and ran towards breck...I think this last year they switched it around.

    If you've ridden the trail it has it's sections that truly emphasize bike handling skills. Most of you know what I'm talking about.

    Due to the logisitics of running a race what you are asking it would have to have only certain sections where dabbing would be considered a time fault. That also means that you guys are going to have bring some volunteers with you.

    I think a simple email to Jeff explaining what you're looking for will have positive results. I've noticed that Jeff always has an open ear to racers.

    If he won't do it I might be willing to look into it. It would be super cool to add the unicyclers to this type of event too!

  34. #34
    pjrides
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    Look No Longer

    It may be a bit on the marathon end of racing but the Dakota Five-0 Race/Ride/Tour in the Black Hills of SD offers alot of good techical singletrack in the 50 mile course.
    Check out their website for more info about that event and the Tinton Trail Time Trials (Stupor D)...
    http://www.dakotafiveo.com

    8th Annual Dakota Five-0 Race/Ride/Tour
    Sunday August 31, 2008

    Ridge Riders of the Black Hills are again hosting the 8th Annual Dakota Five-0. The Race/Ride/Tour has continued to grow each year and we appreciate all the riders support, sponsors and volunteers that make it possible. Ridge Riders continue to keep the trails open and groomed for your riding pleasure. It truly is the reason for the gathering. We have been able to cater to all styles and abilities of riders. This year we will have the same well-stocked aid stations throughout the course. Riders may find a few out of the ordinary aid stations such as the PBR stop at hobo camp or the all-new Bacon Station…
    We have added several classes to this growing ride. 29 yrs. and under, 30-39, 40-49 and 50 and Over. I am most excited for the 50 and over class as we have had a growing number in this class that are very avid cyclist. 50 is a significant number for us at the Five-OH! All classes will be awarded graciously, see our web site cash and prizes breakdown for more details.
    Quark Technologies a local cycling industry specializing in cycling power meters has sponsored our event. Through this sponsorship we will be fortunate to offer a Garmin Edge 705 gps unit specialized for cyclist. We will be awarding one each to the fastest man and women in addition to cash. Ellsworth Handcrafted Bicycles supplied us with a $900 wheelset and local artist Jennifer Braig donated a paintining. Funk Pottery crafts up custom Spirit of Five-0 mugs, as well as Dykstra Pottery donating some beautiful cycling pots and bowls… All this will and much more to be raffled off at the 4:30 awards ceremony and available to all riders. There are many sponsors and prizes available for all participants.
    Again this year Smokey Bear will send riders out of Spearfish Park. Riders Meeting race line up at 7:20 am Spearfish Park Bandshell. After a short briefing riders will be sent out for the Singletrack Extravaganza. Riders will be greeted back in Spearfish Park with catered food from the Bayleaf Café, live music and two kegs of precious microbrew from Crow Peak Brewery.
    Kids Race will be at 4pm and Awards Ceremony will follow at 4:30.
    Thanks for your interest!
    Pedal Metal
    Perry Jewett
    http://www.dakotafiveo.comPedal Metal!
    Perry Jewett
    Ridge Riders of the Black Hills

  35. #35
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    man, I see aid stations, and this means to me a long endurance course with some techy thrown in.

    My thoughts are to find a 35min - 1 hour up hill (Think Belcher to the top). Find an equivalent DH that isn't trival with the same amount of time... So, say for instance run 3 or 4 runs at Keystone on all types of terrain linking all types of DH. So for an average rider, you get as much up hill as you do Downhill, none of it is compromised. Sorry, but when I see the time ratios on something like the Fire Cracker 50, 95% of the time spent is endurance; vs a few techy sections that require 15 minutes of your time to get through.

    Then do two trials sections... and that could be anywhere along the front range. It would have to be done on multiple days. I say we keep it 'beer can' at first, and session each of the area's.

    ...perhaps the entry fee is "Garmin 205 or 305" plus 20 bucks. 10 of it pays the section winner, and the remianing part of it pays the overall winner. The Garmin will be the real time and route keeper, that way we don't need to worry about staffing the entire trail... keep it simple.

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