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  1. #1
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    Agressive Rider @ Chimney Gulch and Mt Falcon

    All,

    FYI to all riders are Chimney Gulch in Golden, CO and Mt Falcon in Morrison, CO. A young "mt biker" in his early 20s has been shuttling the hills at these two locations. The rider ran into a girl at Chimney Gulch this past Wednesday (6/16/10), caused her to stumble off of her bike and she almost fell down the hillside. The girl yelled at him after he passed and he shook his head at her and told her to "F-off". The same rider also told numerous people off after he essentially pushed them off of the trail that day.

    When the rider was confronted, he was a real wise ass. He said that he rides these trails late in the day to avoid "mt bikers like you". He was riding Chimney Gulch at 6PM when it had tons of riders in it!!!

    Description of the rider to confront:
    The rider is in his 20s and rides a black dirt jump bike. He wears a round style thug-like helmet. His blond haired girlfriend shuttles him numerous times at these locations and she drives an older model (late 80s) white Toyota Camry. The license plate is CO and it is something like 206-TDJ or 207-TDJ. The car has small "Hybrid Synergy Drive" sticker on the back right trunk area... most likely from a Toyota Prius. The car has a roof rack that allows the bike to stand up without the wheel being taken off.

    If you see this rider on the trail, give him a true "mt bikers welcome". He rides alone so do not be afraid to confront him. He is a thug that is going to get these trails closed to true mt bikers. If I see him again, I'm going to show him some trailside mt bike respect for everyone!

  2. #2
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    i too once saw an aggressive rider - he was riding a mtn bike. I have also seen wild life on a trail - it looked pretty aggressive(and it did not travel alone).

  3. #3
    killin clear creek
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    What a MORON!!


    Everybody knows it's stupid to ride Dh on a dirt jumper!!!

    Why, with ALL the user conflict out there on the stinking front range, is there not a SINGLE legal downhill trail anywhere around there? That's the real crime here!

    (oh, and the fact that this guys is obviously a tool, you can ride down a hill without running people off the trail!)
    Quote Originally Posted by thump View Post
    How about we take the "let it burn approach" with the rotting cesspool of the Denver metro?

  4. #4
    Your bike is incorrigible
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    Anyone who wears a skate style lid in the summer needs to be knocked off his bike and kicked repeatedly until all his ribs are broken. Then take a dump in his stupid piss pot lid and strap it back on.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyechka
    Anyone who wears a skate style lid period needs to be knocked off his bike and kicked repeatedly until all his ribs are broken. Then take a dump in his stupid piss pot lid and strap it back on.
    fixed

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by IFMTBer
    All,
    His blond haired girlfriend shuttles him numerous times at these locations and she drives an older model (late 80s) white Toyota Camry. The license plate is CO and it is something like 206-TDJ or 207-TDJ. The car has small "Hybrid Synergy Drive" sticker on the back right trunk area... most likely from a Toyota Prius. The car has a roof rack that allows the bike to stand up without the wheel being taken off.
    FYI I've seen them at the top of Apex also.

    UT

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleTrail
    FYI I've seen them at the top of Apex also.

    UT
    If this is true, then he's prob. on those hidden cameras. I wonder if there's one of those at the trailhead(s)?

  8. #8
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    Sounds like the guy's a tool and deserves a good ass whoopin. I'm surprised that no one he told to f-off helped him out with that.

    That said, I find your description of a DJ helmet amusing.

  9. #9
    gnar, brah
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    I like to use round-style thug-like helmets. Good for drinkin 40s on the stoop and poppin caps in whitey. Safety first.
    Trestle Bike Park

  10. #10
    Come see me after class
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    the OP sounds like a tool also.

  11. #11
    percocet pioneer.
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    Point taken, but seriously who gives a ****... get over it. Not everybody in this world are princesses...

    ...look at me..

  12. #12
    percocet pioneer.
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    p.s. never seen a "thug" on the trails but nice attempt at profiling.

  13. #13
    Living the High Life
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    The kid probably has no idea about trail rules. He obviously doesn't have any friends since he's riding alone. Maybe he's too super mega bad ass for his friends to keep up.

    If some one sees him just try and explain the rules. Swearing and yelling won't solve a thing, he'll just get defensive.
    You have just been mentally Rick Roll'd. Yup you're thinking about it right now aren't you? Don't fight it.

  14. #14
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    We saw this dbag last Wed as well. Several of us actually confronted him down in the lot when his girlfriend picked him up. We started by basically telling him to slow down and that at least one of us personally what happened up on the trail as stated already. He wanted no part of a "discussion" and after a couple of minutes took off. We did tell him that we ride there all the time (not really) and will be looking for him to make sure he isn't ramming into people and not apologizing. Several others we were riding with including some begginner ladies also experiened close calls with this idiot.

    Bottom line, if you see a yellow skateboard helmeted dbag on a dirt jump bike shuttling any of these trails confront him and remind him of the rules of the trails.

  15. #15
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    Skate lids? I thought full faces were the most hated helmets on the front range?

  16. #16
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    All some guys will understand is a knuckle sandwich. Gives them time to contemplate the error of their ways as they try to get up off the ground.
    So it seems to me to be, this thing that I think I see.

  17. #17
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    Yeah, that guy was rude! Let's hurt him physically!

    Christ, what a stupid thread.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tempest3070
    Yeah, that guy was rude! Let's hurt him physically!

    Christ, what a stupid thread.
    Well if people try to reason with him several times and he ignores them maybe it should come to that. How do you get him to listen before he stops doing this and really injures some one else?

    I'm not sure on this in reality. How do you deal with a person who just won't listen? Can't fix stupid is the saying.
    You have just been mentally Rick Roll'd. Yup you're thinking about it right now aren't you? Don't fight it.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithnu
    Well if people try to reason with him several times and he ignores them maybe it should come to that. How do you get him to listen before he stops doing this and really injures some one else?

    I'm not sure on this in reality. How do you deal with a person who just won't listen? Can't fix stupid is the saying.
    Yes, if we're to be taken seriously as a usergroup likely the best possible response is violence. I suppose this is what should be done to hikers that mouth off as well, then?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tempest3070
    Yes, if we're to be taken seriously as a usergroup likely the best possible response is violence. I suppose this is what should be done to hikers that mouth off as well, then?
    I don't believe violence is ever the answer, but that is a different situation. It's not often that hikers are running downhill so fast that they can really injure somone else. This is why there are rules put up on these public trails. Hikers typically get mad for others for breaking the rules or rules of thumb on the trail (or what they believe the rules should be). This biker is getting mad at people getting mad at him for breaking the rules.

    I do hope this isn't a true story, but I don't doubt it either. There are many stupid/ridiculous people out there.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by gearwhine
    I don't believe violence is ever the answer, but that is a different situation. It's not often that hikers are running downhill so fast that they can really injure somone else. This is why there are rules put up on these public trails. Hikers typically get mad for others for breaking the rules or rules of thumb on the trail (or what they believe the rules should be). This biker is getting mad at people getting mad at him for breaking the rules.

    I do hope this isn't a true story, but I don't doubt it either. There are many stupid/ridiculous people out there.
    It seems like the solution would be to alert the rangers to this guy, not to escalate the confrontations that are already occuring.

    What do I know, though, I've got a skate helmet AND a fullface.

  22. #22
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    OP, thanks for the heads-up. Police from within, as Ithnu says. The best chance of getting through to this guy is for fellow bikers to tell him what he's doing isn't cool. The number of posters to this thread that seem to disagree makes me worry for the future of the Front Range trails...

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tempest3070
    I suppose this is what should be done to hikers that mouth off as well, then?
    Yes. Any guy that nearly runs my wife off a trail and then tells her to f-off is going to become the recipient of violence.

    Save the fuzzy fluffy talk it out crap for your Xanax chewing counseling sessions. There are some things that should be dealt with as men.

  24. #24
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    +1

    I sure hope this kid does not run a guy's girlfriend/wife/child off the trail because he will probably get his a$$ kicked. I am not saying it's right but I get it.



    Quote Originally Posted by golden boy
    OP, thanks for the heads-up. Police from within, as Ithnu says. The best chance of getting through to this guy is for fellow bikers to tell him what he's doing isn't cool. The number of posters to this thread that seem to disagree makes me worry for the future of the Front Range trails...

  25. #25
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    How about a nice eye for an eye, next time one of you see him blazing down, turn your bike around, let 'er rip, catch up to him, get on his a$$, then tell him to get the f@#k out of your way. Did that once to a guy who clipped me on a trail in Cali, was super fun, he never saw it coming

    There is also the clothesline

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by IFMTBer
    He wears a round style thug-like helmet.
    I think I've seen the guy:



  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by thump
    Yes. Any guy that nearly runs my wife off a trail and then tells her to f-off is going to become the recipient of violence.

    Save the fuzzy fluffy talk it out crap for your Xanax chewing counseling sessions. There are some things that should be dealt with as men.
    A couple of years ago a guy ran me off the trail as he was bombing down a section of Centennial Cone. My husband saw the whole thing - he turned around, chased down the wanker on the next climb, and gave him a verbal thrashing. My husband reminded the punk that if a 40 year old man can turn around on a climb, follow you on a downhill, and catch you on the next climb that your racing career is over.

    M

  28. #28
    Your bike is incorrigible
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    So did anyone ever think of alerting the rangers? If there are cameras, it'd be pretty easy to spot the guy again. Let the authorities ban him from riding anything other than C-Creek path.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by chillmolly
    A couple of years ago a guy ran me off the trail as he was bombing down a section of Centennial Cone. My husband saw the whole thing - he turned around, chased down the wanker on the next climb, and gave him a verbal thrashing. My husband reminded the punk that if a 40 year old man can turn around on a climb, follow you on a downhill, and catch you on the next climb that your racing career is over.

    M

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tempest3070
    Yes, if we're to be taken seriously as a usergroup likely the best possible response is violence. I suppose this is what should be done to hikers that mouth off as well, then?
    I can't believe you could equate clotheslining a dbag like the guy running people off the trail yelling "f.. you" in his wake with verbal confrontations with a hiker. It's obvious you've never been minding your own business when someone came full on around a blind corner---or even just straight on---and smashed into you, helmet to helmet. Or seen it happen to your gilfriend/wife. Beating that guy down on the spot is the very definition of policing ourselves.
    So it seems to me to be, this thing that I think I see.

  31. #31
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    And if anyone "kicks his ass" they will surely go to jail for assault and this guy will keep riding his bike (and get a new one from the lawsuit he files).

    Stop being so reactionary. No person can tell another what to do. It all comes down to integrity. Calling for heads, and vigilante justice, will get trails shut down the same as inconsiderate riders not following the "rules".

  32. #32
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    Big Mean Bully

    Quote Originally Posted by inkpad
    How about a nice eye for an eye, next time one of you see him blazing down, turn your bike around, let 'er rip, catch up to him, get on his a$$, then tell him to get the f@#k out of your way. Did that once to a guy who clipped me on a trail in Cali, was super fun, he never saw it coming

    There is also the clothesline
    You sound like a big, mean, bully.

    Good thing we don't have to worry aboot the likes of you around here, anymore!
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    Last edited by Aquaholic; 06-21-2010 at 11:49 AM.
    What the EFF is "All MOUNTAIN"???

  33. #33
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    Yes, try to justify violence all you want, but the law will not be on your side.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquaholic
    You sound like a big, mean, bully.

    Good thing we don't have to worry aboot the likes of you around here, anymore!
    Watch it buddy, that incident happened on San Juan, & I will be on that trail again in a couple weeks, so keep off.

  35. #35
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    Agressive Rider @ Chimney Gulch and Mt Falcon-633665324887098206-pacifism.jpg

  36. #36
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    Cool, internet tough guys.
    Gone are the days we stopped to decide,
    Where we should go,
    We just ride...

  37. #37
    Moosehead
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    Maybe shakedown the sagwagon? Nicely, of course.

  38. #38
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    I had a run in with this guy earlier this year. We kind of surprised each other as I was approaching the rocky climb were most people (me) end up dismounting at the third switchback above the first road crossing on Chimney. I was definitely not happy, but figured what could I really do and continued on. I didn't really want to get all hot and bothered and have it ruin my day. I'd have no problem though if someone else cares to kick his a$$. I'll actually even justify your violence.

  39. #39
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    I only breezed through most of the posts in this thread, as many seemed to be confrontational for no good reason. However, I am posting to let you guys know I have also seen a rider matching this physical and behavioral description, on Chimney, about a month and a half ago. I am not condoning or advocating any sort of violence, but let's consider that:

    1. There is a rider on public trails that is endangering trail access for ALL mountain bikers, not just "shuttlers", to those public trails.
    2. This rider has been identified and described, and can be spotted again.
    3. Taking a stance of "we can't all be good people", "some people are just Dbags" or "You can't tell other people what to do" is (IMO) essentially forfeiting your rights to trail access, by allowing the behaviors of others to affect your rights.
    4. Violence is never really a good answer, no matter how "justified" we think it can be.

    I know that if (and when) I see this rider acting irresponsibly again, I will certainly start by alerting rangers/patrol/what have you. I've got no love for someone taking away MY rights, even if it means "incriminating" one of my own user group.
    The older I get, the faster I was.





    Punch it, Chewie.

  40. #40
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    I'm not a pacifist, but with my luck I'd kick the little bastards ass, and end up in jail while he gets a lawyer, and I end up with a garnished paycheck for the next 10 years.

    Just saying, there are lot's of times you would like to pound someone, but your better judgement guides you not to.

    I think a good threat would be appropriate, however.

    Something like, "hey, I know these guys on MTBR are staking this place out just so they can booby trap you and drag you into the woods, and pound the crap out of you. I'd recommend being cool before they catch you doing that rude crap."

  41. #41
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    I'm sure the guy referenced by the OP is very afraid of words. He's shown that; and we should certainly reinforce that there's no need to take accountability for his actions as the only real downside is a good talking too.

    The only thing that keeps order in our society (and all others throughout history) is the threat of violence and force. At a domestic level, it's the police, at an international level it's the military. Those that take the approach that they can solve all conflict through non-violence are simply hiding behind the hypocrisy that they're expecting someone else (typically the local PD) to be willing to risk violence to solve their conflicts for them.

    If having the sack to physically stand up for yourself and your friends/family is now labeled as a "tough guy", then so be it.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by thump
    I'm sure the guy referenced by the OP is very afraid of words. He's shown that; and we should certainly reinforce that there's no need to take accountability for his actions as the only real downside is a good talking too.

    The only thing that keeps order in our society (and all others throughout history) is the threat of violence and force. At a domestic level, it's the police, at an international level it's the military. Those that take the approach that they can solve all conflict through non-violence are simply hiding behind the hypocrisy that they're expecting someone else (typically the local PD) to be willing to risk violence to solve their conflicts for them.

    If having the sack to physically stand up for yourself and your friends/family is now labeled as a "tough guy", then so be it.
    Did you just call me a pu$$y?

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebry74
    Did you just call me a pu$$y?
    Damn straight mofo.. Apex parking lot, pistols at dawn.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by jugdish
    Cool, internet tough guys.
    hey dude - don't make fun - you could be next on the thread of dudes that need there a$$ed kicked.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by imaorobbie
    And if anyone "kicks his ass" they will surely go to jail for assault and this guy will keep riding his bike (and get a new one from the lawsuit he files).

    Stop being so reactionary. No person can tell another what to do. It all comes down to integrity. Calling for heads, and vigilante justice, will get trails shut down the same as inconsiderate riders not following the "rules".
    It's all in how you handle it. If this guy is bombing towards you and you are in fear of bodily damage or worse, you can act. So... toss your bike at him as you dive out of the way (obviously not your good bike!). That ought to get his attention. If he comes up swinging, let the ass kicking begin. If not, call the ambulance for him and the cops and tell them what happened and why you felt you had to defend yourself.

    Not that I'm advocating violence or anything... just self defense!

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiahh
    It's all in how you handle it. If this guy is bombing towards you and you are in fear of bodily damage or worse, you can act. So... toss your bike at him as you dive out of the way (obviously not your good bike!). That ought to get his attention. If he comes up swinging, let the ass kicking begin. If not, call the ambulance for him and the cops and tell them what happened and why you felt you had to defend yourself.

    Not that I'm advocating violence or anything... just self defense!
    I'm probably one of the first to stand up for protecting your personal safety against irresponsible people who have no regard for your safety, but I would encourage all of you to take the higher road and think a little bit about how to really put a stop to this.

    Digital cameras are cheap. Keep one in your back pocket when riding and snap some pics the next time you see him. The next time you want to get in someone's face, pull out the camera instead? If it becomes a verbal confrontation, then most can record sound also

    I'm surprised there's no "wall of shame" on MTBR for taking care of this yet?

    Also, this guy is a "person on a bike" not a mountain biker. You/we are not doing ourselves any favors when we allow him to be stereotypes as a member of the bike community.

    Please be careful about how you throw the term "mountain biker" around.

    UT

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by thump
    I'm sure the guy referenced by the OP is very afraid of words. He's shown that; and we should certainly reinforce that there's no need to take accountability for his actions as the only real downside is a good talking too.

    The only thing that keeps order in our society (and all others throughout history) is the threat of violence and force. At a domestic level, it's the police, at an international level it's the military. Those that take the approach that they can solve all conflict through non-violence are simply hiding behind the hypocrisy that they're expecting someone else (typically the local PD) to be willing to risk violence to solve their conflicts for them.

    If having the sack to physically stand up for yourself and your friends/family is now labeled as a "tough guy", then so be it.
    It seems you have a rather black or white viewpoint here.

    The only thing that keeps order in our society (and all others throughout history) is the threat of violence and force.
    Perhaps on a macro level, but on an individual level don't you think there are plenty of people who keep their own order just because its the right thing to do, for religous reasons, for the good of society as a whole, or because they are able to see the long term benefit of a win/win outcome? Is the threat of the cops getting you, the only thing that keeps you from acting out anti-social behavior?

    Those that take the approach that they can solve all conflict through non-violence are simply hiding behind the hypocrisy.......
    Assuming that ALL conflict could be solved non-violently would be an extreme view, and not a view I saw expressed on this thread.
    The idea that non-violence will not work in every situation is not a justification to use violence (as a first resort) in any situation.

    ...simply hiding behind the hypocrisy that they're expecting someone else (typically the local PD) to be willing to risk violence to solve their conflicts for them.
    That's the way its supposed to work isn't it? The PD is supposed solve conflicts in society (and normally non-violently as well). If someone is violating your rights, you are supposed to take it up non-violently with that person, or talk to the cops, or a lawyer, not go out and start kicking ass, right? I'm talking about any case where you are not in danger and in need of immediate violent action to save yourself, of course.

  48. #48
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    Is his girlfriend hot? Did she seems happy with him?

  49. #49
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    Ttb!

    Quote Originally Posted by inkpad
    Watch it buddy, that incident happened on San Juan, & I will be on that trail again in a couple weeks, so keep off.
    Dang....I thought you chaps from Colorado were waaay more chill?


    TTB.

    PS "On your left!"
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Agressive Rider @ Chimney Gulch and Mt Falcon-dscn0292.jpg  

    What the EFF is "All MOUNTAIN"???

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueMountain
    Is his girlfriend hot? Did she seems happy with him?
    Ha! Yeah if she's hot, and she'll sit in the car and shuttle you back and forth while you do downhills all afternoon........she's a keeper!

  51. #51
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    Unfortunately calling Rangers, etc doesn't help with the masses of hikers and other users this guy has ran off the trail or almost hit. It only takes one time to change someone's mind on the perception of bikers as a whole. Violence isn't the answer but if this guy takes a blind corner and it's you, your family, dog or the biker, the biker probably won't do well if someone gives him a solid stiff arm. This isn't violence in my mind, just protecting yourself. It'll probably take a run in like this before the guy thinks twice about blowing by people and running people off the trail.

  52. #52
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    No need to resort to violence.. just "get in the way" of the handlebar (preferably the left side with the front brake). Then you can yell at him until your heart's content while he picks up his teeth. Personally, I'd take a bruised arm to see that guy go OTB.

    Presumably in most of these situations, he's going down, and the victim is going up - uphill has the right-of-way, he failed to yeild, and crashed as a result. Now I'm not a lawyer, but presumably you could then get him in trouble with the police/ranger/etc for failing to yeild, and he is getting a trip to the hospital. Win win.
    Last edited by jiker; 06-21-2010 at 03:28 PM.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve
    Perhaps on a macro level, but on an individual level don't you think there are plenty of people who keep their own order just because its the right thing to do, for religous reasons, for the good of society as a whole, or because they are able to see the long term benefit of a win/win outcome?
    Yeah, I'm pretty sure this guy would be motivated by a good ol' witnessing. Explain that what he's doing would be wrong according to the good book & he'll change his ways asap.

    C'mon... you really think that's gonna motivate this guy???
    Quote Originally Posted by thump View Post
    How about we take the "let it burn approach" with the rotting cesspool of the Denver metro?

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy
    I can't believe you could equate clotheslining a dbag like the guy running people off the trail yelling "f.. you" in his wake with verbal confrontations with a hiker. It's obvious you've never been minding your own business when someone came full on around a blind corner---or even just straight on---and smashed into you, helmet to helmet. Or seen it happen to your gilfriend/wife. Beating that guy down on the spot is the very definition of policing ourselves.
    Hey man, hearsay is hearsay. I haven't seen this guy and haven't had cause to complain about other trail users, but I'm willing to bet that verbal confrontations between hikers and mountain bikers and general aggressive behavior on the trails are pinned solely around the neck of the mountain bike community in open space meetings.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by backcountryislife
    Yeah, I'm pretty sure this guy would be motivated by a good ol' witnessing. Explain that what he's doing would be wrong according to the good book & he'll change his ways asap.

    C'mon... you really think that's gonna motivate this guy???
    Maybe and maybe not, but even if the guys seems like a total dick, you shouldn't assume you can't reason with him, until you try. Reasoning with him would be the first step, and violence would be the last. Calling the cops, threatening him, getting in his way, etc, come in between. I like the camera idea someone mentioned. that would probably really piss him off, and make him seriously think that he was on the road to trouble.
    I think even most d-bag type guys would tend to tone down their behavior or just go away if people give him a hard time every time he tries to bomb down the trail. He may scream "f*** you", but he'd probably be thinking that riding there is not fun any longer and he'd be sick of the harrassment, eventually.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve
    It seems you have a rather black or white viewpoint here.
    Fvck.. I'll bite. I suppose I'm not very evolved. Here's how I see this:

    Scenario 1:
    Guy runs wife off trail > I stop him and say WTF?? > Guy apologizes and appears sincere > I provide some pointers on trail etiquette > all is well.

    Scenario 2:
    Guy runs wife off trail > I stop him and say WTF?? > Guy says "f-off" > Guy receives biatch slap and his bike is ejected into the nearest ravine > cops show up and I explain how my wife and I were attacked and I was defending myself out of fear for my safety > fellow trail users that were also ran off trail back up my story > all is well.

    I suppose there's several other scenarios where either I lose, which is a risk I'm willing to accept, or some "all violence is bad" nancy doesn't back up my story, in which case I earn enough to afford a good attorney. Overall, I certainly prefer scenario 1 but am comfortable with the others. Accepting the guy's "f-off" and trying to talk to him as he blows us off and rides away is not an option I could stomach.

    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve
    Perhaps on a macro level, but on an individual level don't you think there are plenty of people who keep their own order just because its the right thing to do, for religous reasons, for the good of society as a whole, or because they are able to see the long term benefit of a win/win outcome? Is the threat of the cops getting you, the only thing that keeps you from acting out anti-social behavior?
    Red herring.

    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve
    Assuming that ALL conflict could be solved non-violently would be an extreme view, and not a view I saw expressed on this thread.
    The idea that non-violence will not work in every situation is not a justification to use violence (as a first resort) in any situation.
    The first resort is giving the guy the chance to man up and apologize. Violence occurs only when this fails.

    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve
    That's the way its supposed to work isn't it? The PD is supposed solve conflicts in society (and normally non-violently as well). If someone is violating your rights, you are supposed to take it up non-violently with that person, or talk to the cops, or a lawyer, not go out and start kicking ass, right?
    Here I believe we'll have to agree to disagree.

  57. #57
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    hmmm.... perhaps I have something to do with my broken foot (find an bust this mofo).

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  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by backcountryislife
    What a MORON!!


    Everybody knows it's stupid to ride Dh on a dirt jumper!!!

    Why, with ALL the user conflict out there on the stinking front range, is there not a SINGLE legal downhill trail anywhere around there? That's the real crime here!
    we're working on it.
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  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve
    Ha! Yeah if she's hot, and she'll sit in the car and shuttle you back and forth while you do downhills all afternoon........she's a keeper!
    ...or his bottom b!tch.
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  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by thump
    Fvck.. I'll bite. I suppose I'm not very evolved. Here's how I see this:

    Scenario 1:
    Guy runs wife off trail > I stop him and say WTF?? > Guy apologizes and appears sincere > I provide some pointers on trail etiquette > all is well.

    Scenario 2:
    Guy runs wife off trail > I stop him and say WTF?? > Guy says "f-off" > Guy receives biatch slap and his bike is ejected into the nearest ravine > cops show up and I explain how my wife and I were attacked and I was defending myself out of fear for my safety > fellow trail users that were also ran off trail back up my story > all is well.

    I suppose there's several other scenarios where either I lose, which is a risk I'm willing to accept, or some "all violence is bad" nancy doesn't back up my story, in which case I earn enough to afford a good attorney. Overall, I certainly prefer scenario 1 but am comfortable with the others. Accepting the guy's "f-off" and trying to talk to him as he blows us off and rides away is not an option I could stomach.


    Red herring.


    The first resort is giving the guy the chance to man up and apologize. Violence occurs only when this fails.


    Here I believe we'll have to agree to disagree.
    I don't think we're too far apart.
    You'd first give him a chance to apologize. That's good.
    Scenario 2 is a tough one. I have a temper myself, and if a ****** just ran me off the road and then said "f*** you!" when I tried to talk to him, I'd be pissed.
    I'm sure the biatch slap decision would depend on the size of the guy, for most people anyway.
    In almost all of these scenario 2 situations that I have seen, there is lots of manly cussing and threatening and pounding of chests, a couple of middle fingers thrown, and the guys split, avoiding the potential dental bill. The close call of violence is enough to get most people to think twice about what they did.
    I suppose everyone is different as far what pulls the trigger for them, to where they decide to cross the line from threats and insults, to throwing a punch.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve
    I don't think we're too far apart.
    You'd first give him a chance to apologize. That's good.
    Scenario 2 is a tough one. I have a temper myself, and if a ****** just ran me off the road and then said "f*** you!" when I tried to talk to him, I'd be pissed....
    I think we're close.

    Scenario 2 though - not really about anger, it's just something that "needs done". Call it a duty to your fellow man. It'll help both future trail users and the guy himself in the long run.

  62. #62
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    Steve, I think the thing that's missing here is that the opportunity for this guy to step up & stop being a tool has been given. From the sounds of the above posts, he has been talked to & was more of an option 2 kinda situation per thumps above noted flowchart.
    Quote Originally Posted by thump View Post
    How about we take the "let it burn approach" with the rotting cesspool of the Denver metro?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thump
    I think we're close.

    Scenario 2 though - not really about anger, it's just something that "needs done". Call it a duty to your fellow man. It'll help both future trail users and the guy himself in the long run.
    F*ck yeah, Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from a punch in the mouth.. It's what weasel d'bags have been hiding behind for decades.
    A well deserved fat lip is good medicine....

  64. #64
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    Scenario 3: dbag runs your wife off the trail but tumbles himself onto his face. He's screaming "f..kn b..tch" at you and your wife. He's clearly in the wrong. Your wife is moaning in pain, she's hurt. What do you do?

    You wail plaintively "can't we all just get along?"

    Nah, I like the biatch slap scenario myself.
    So it seems to me to be, this thing that I think I see.

  65. #65
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    I still think a well placed handlebar clip is the most effective way to deal with this guy.

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    Thinking about this on my ride today at Apex I think JCOS is completely missing the point of 'public space,' which is essentially what places like Apex Park is. Public space should generally be self-governing, truly democratic space with minimal governmental intervention. What you have at Apex is regulation gone haywire. Don't get me wrong, I believe there is a time and place for regulation, but this may be an exemplary case.

    Skate parks for example are genrally what I would consider the closest thing we have in America to true democratic space. Kids figure **** out, and for the most part it all works out without a great deal of rule enforcement or heavy handedness.

    To that end, we, I would propose the idea that we, as a community of open space users, should feel free to impose our own set of regulation on irresponsible users--given there is a line. I like the fact that the OP posted his or her grievances here, rather than rely entirely on JCOS to fix it.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by nca777
    Thinking about this on my ride today at Apex I think JCOS is completely missing the point of 'public space,' which is essentially what places like Apex Park is. Public space should generally be self-governing, truly democratic space with minimal governmental intervention. What you have at Apex is regulation gone haywire. Don't get me wrong, I believe there is a time and place for regulation, but this may be an exemplary case.

    Skate parks for example are genrally what I would consider the closest thing we have in America to true democratic space. Kids figure **** out, and for the most part it all works out without a great deal of rule enforcement or heavy handedness.

    To that end, we, I would propose the idea that we, as a community of open space users, should feel free to impose our own set of regulation on irresponsible users--given there is a line. I like the fact that the OP posted his or her grievances here, rather than rely entirely on JCOS to fix it.
    I just realized how dumb this is.

  68. #68
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    Funny, we talk about hurting a guy, it sure sounds simple... I used to fight for a living and honestly I don't think when it comes time to pull the trigger that I'd actually do it. I'll sure as hell reserve the right to if he REALLY deserves it though!!!!!! I think normal people underestimate how unpleasant it is to actually hurt someone.

    Not calling anyone an internet tough guy, I just find it interesting how easily we all (me too!) say the guy deserves a bit of beating... but the idea of it is so different than the reality of it.
    (hope this doesn't mean I agree with smilingsteve???)

    This guy sure does sound like a qualified candidate for a beating if there was one though!!
    Quote Originally Posted by thump View Post
    How about we take the "let it burn approach" with the rotting cesspool of the Denver metro?

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by backcountryislife
    Funny, we talk about hurting a guy, it sure sounds simple... I used to fight for a living and honestly I don't think when it comes time to pull the trigger that I'd actually do it. I'll sure as hell reserve the right to if he REALLY deserves it though!!!!!! I think normal people underestimate how unpleasant it is to actually hurt someone.
    Good post. I was going to mention that every truly tough guy I never knew would be the last guy to just pop someone in the mouth over a minor confrontation. If you have confidence in your ability, you are not so eager to show it. How easy is it to SAY you would hit a guy? The people here saying they would hit the guy, I'd like to know how many people they have actually popped, in their whole lives?
    Not calling anyone an internet tough guy, I just find it interesting how easily we all (me too!) say the guy deserves a bit of beating... but the idea of it is so different than the reality of it.
    (hope this doesn't mean I agree with smilingsteve???)
    Woops. The bad news is I think we agree!
    That's not so bad. I'm not sure how I have come across, but basically I have been trying to say just what you have said so well.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy
    Scenario 3: dbag runs your wife off the trail but tumbles himself onto his face. He's screaming "f..kn b..tch" at you and your wife. He's clearly in the wrong. Your wife is moaning in pain, she's hurt. What do you do?

    You wail plaintively "can't we all just get along?"

    Nah, I like the biatch slap scenario myself.

    uh, what do you do? is helping your hurt wife an option here?
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  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by thump
    Damn straight mofo.. Apex parking lot, pistols at dawn.
    Apex? Odd or even day? Whatever...Apex is not worth my time.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by backcountryislife
    Funny, we talk about hurting a guy, it sure sounds simple... I used to fight for a living and honestly I don't think when it comes time to pull the trigger that I'd actually do it. I'll sure as hell reserve the right to if he REALLY deserves it though!!!!!!
    I call BS. I'd be willing to bet someone non-repentantly knocking your wife off a trail would instantly put them into the "REALLY deserves it" bucket. I'm going to call out Full Trucker from earlier in this thread as well. If someone barreled over Traveling Companion™ and gave him an f-you, I sincerely doubt he'd be talking it out.

    We're not talking about trying to break the guy's arms. It doesn't take much to teach a little respect.

    I'm not a "tough guy", but I've won and lost enough not to feel like it's a big deal to get in a little scuffle. If you used to fight for a living I'm sure you've had plenty of friends in your younger years that would clock each other as way of saying hello. I simply have a strong sense as a man you just "do what needs done", and someone intentionally hurting my wife or daughter would "need doing". I'd likely feel the same obligation seeing this happen to any woman right in front of me.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by thump
    I call BS. I'd be willing to bet someone non-repentantly knocking your wife off a trail would instantly put them into the "REALLY deserves it" bucket. I'm going to call out Full Trucker from earlier in this thread as well. If someone barreled over Traveling Companion™ and gave him an f-you, I sincerely doubt he'd be talking it out.

    We're not talking about trying to break the guy's arms. It doesn't take much to teach a little respect.

    I'm not a "tough guy", but I've won and lost enough not to feel like it's a big deal to get in a little scuffle. If you used to fight for a living I'm sure you've had plenty of friends in your younger years that would clock each other as way of saying hello. I simply have a strong sense as a man you just "do what needs done", and someone intentionally hurting my wife or daughter would "need doing". I'd likely feel the same obligation seeing this happen to any woman right in front of me.
    Funny, always comes down to the other guy. I've had so many situations where I could have pushed a TINY bit & been able to play, but just couldn't do it. You're likely right, add my wife being hurt into the mix... nah, still won't work...I'd let HER beat his ass, she's a fighter too! (BJJ &JKD black belt) (and it'd be so great to see the look on a guys face while he's gurgling with a 105lb girl wrapped around his neck!!)

    You know, to an extent, isn't it sort of like finding some dude talking smack on his cruiser & challenging him to a DH race?

    I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm just saying it's surprising how rarely it really comes to that.
    Quote Originally Posted by thump View Post
    How about we take the "let it burn approach" with the rotting cesspool of the Denver metro?

  74. #74
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    You're all going about this the wrong way. I shall wait at the top of Lookout with my roadbike, while decked out in sexy spandex, and steal his GF. Problem solved, as long as I use a condom.

  75. #75
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    Get the license plate of the car. Multiple calls later to the Police Department about reckless driving and getting pulled over repeatedly might be enough to make her not want to be involved anymore...

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by backcountryislife
    I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm just saying it's surprising how rarely it really comes to that.
    Always a lot more smack talk on the interwebz that reality bears out. Kind like all the guys who talk about how they beat up on all the roadies on pavement. I read a lot about it but I never actually see it.

  77. #77
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    I just wanted to state I think it's funny that the OP posted just this one thread and didn't respond but incited a wild fire.

    Ride On

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    I've got a nephew who was national tai kwan do champion in his age class. He knocked out everyone he faced (probably not correct to knock out your opponent in a kids tournament but whatever).

    As far as I know he never got in a fight as an adult. Maybe you guys with superior fighting skilz know it just wouldn't be fair to fight an untrained fighter, no matter how much of an azzhat he was.

    Another guy I know, an untrained bar-type fighter, finally got tired of being arrested for assault. "If some guy deserves to be punched" he says "it's not going to be me doing it".

    Still, the guy running people off these trails needs to be dealt with somehow.
    So it seems to me to be, this thing that I think I see.

  79. #79
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    If you see him bombing down the trail, you can always fishhook him. Pretty easy to explain that one away... I was scared and threw my hands up in the air to protect myself and somehow my fingers hooked his cheek... wow, who woulda thought something like that could happen?
    Last edited by topmounter; 06-22-2010 at 10:18 AM.

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    Now that so many people know about him (and hate him), its just a matter of time. I can't wait to hear how this story ends!

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by thump
    I'm going to call out Full Trucker from earlier in this thread as well. If someone barreled over Traveling Companion™ and gave him an f-you, I sincerely doubt he'd be talking it out.
    In a public forum such as this, I solidly stand behind my previous statements: Reporting the rider's behavior (along with a description/license plate/etc.) to rangers would be a "first step" in my book, based on the behavior I have witnessed personally—which did NOT involve anyone getting hurt.

    This @ssclown is behaving in a manner that will effectively take away our rights to these public trails, and we're in here bickering about whether or not thumping the fool is the "right" thing to do. SOME sort of action is needed. Action that will make a difference. If (in any circumstance) someone I care about is injured/hurt by the actions of another, I can only say that I would make certain the situation was handled appropriately. Take away what you want from that statement.
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  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by nca777
    Thinking about this on my ride today at Apex I think JCOS is completely missing the point of 'public space,' which is essentially what places like Apex Park is. Public space should generally be self-governing, truly democratic space with minimal governmental intervention. What you have at Apex is regulation gone haywire. Don't get me wrong, I believe there is a time and place for regulation, but this may be an exemplary case.

    Skate parks for example are genrally what I would consider the closest thing we have in America to true democratic space. Kids figure **** out, and for the most part it all works out without a great deal of rule enforcement or heavy handedness.

    To that end, we, I would propose the idea that we, as a community of open space users, should feel free to impose our own set of regulation on irresponsible users--given there is a line. I like the fact that the OP posted his or her grievances here, rather than rely entirely on JCOS to fix it.
    I know you re-read this post and posted a rebuttal to yourself, saying you "Just realized how dumb this is." But are you? People learned a LOT about socialization while growing up, on the playground, with other kids, and it stays with them for a long time. A schoolyard playground isn't too different than a public trail: different user groups, different games being played, and some how everything needs to have harmony and work together. The kids playing tether ball might get interrupted by an errant kickball, but there's no need to get bent over it.

    Inevitably, there's a bully in the schoolyard. One kid pushes all the other kids around because he's learned he can get away with it, without much consequence. Eventually, something gets the kid's attention: whether it's the other kids on the playground getting sick and tired of his antics, or an adult stepping in and disciplining the bad behavior.

    This rider is currently in the "getting away with it" phase. It's only a matter of time before the schoolyard rises up or the teachers step in. If this guy was pulling the same sh!t "up the hill" a bit, at the dirtjumps, or at the skatepark... I guarantee he'd have already taken some lumps and wouldn't be so keen on continuing to be an @ss.
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    I guarantee the guy who is going to take him out on the trail is not talking about it on this forum.
    Smart guy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyechka
    Anyone who wears a skate style lid in the summer needs to be knocked off his bike and kicked repeatedly until all his ribs are broken. Then take a dump in his stupid piss pot lid and strap it back on.

    I wear a skate lid, are you going to profile me and attempt beat my ass because of your prejudice? Tiny minded fool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bustanutley
    I wear a skate lid, are you going to profile me and attempt beat my ass because of your prejudice? Tiny minded fool.
    Settle down buster! Look carefully, and you will see that there is humor and sarcasm in many posts on this forum.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve
    Settle down buster! Look carefully, and you will see that there is humor and sarcasm in many posts on this forum.
    How people get through life oblivious like that is beyond me.

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    Since reason and logic apparently don't work, maybe the next step is to talk to his "girlfriend." If she realizes what a tool he is, then maybe she'll stop shuttling him. Maybe even ditch him. One time riding UP those trails will give him a new appreciation.

    On a much more serious note: If that's how he treats total strangers then imagine how he treats her. Not saying this is the case, but anyone see an abusive pattern in this relationship? As a father I would never let my daughter date someone who treated strangers as this guy does. (Knock on wood...easy to say because I know she'll make her own decisions.)
    Is this where I write something witty?

  88. #88
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    Look, there's an easy answer to this: ride with Godzilla. Godzilla will chase him down, uphill or down, and then paint the trail with the guy's blood. You get to watch, maybe enjoy a brat on the grill, a cold beer, a few laughs if the guys is able to put up any fight at all, and all you have to do post bail and give 'zilla a ride home from the detention center.

    Don't ask me how I know this.
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  89. #89
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    I gotta ride with Godzeera again, it's been awhile...
    Golden Bike Park

    Golden Connector Trails need your support!

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    Look, there's an easy answer to this: ride with Godzilla. Godzilla will chase him down, uphill or down, and then paint the trail with the guy's blood. You get to watch, maybe enjoy a brat on the grill, a cold beer, a few laughs if the guys is able to put up any fight at all, and all you have to do post bail and give 'zilla a ride home from the detention center.

    Don't ask me how I know this.
    I was wondering about that...
    I'm pretty confident in my DH kung-fu to say I can chase down a DJer on a Nomad, take a pic of the guy's plates and maybe of him (and/or his hawt girlfriend), and turn the info over to the sheriff's.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y
    I was wondering about that...
    I'm pretty confident in my DH kung-fu to say I can chase down a DJer on a Nomad, take a pic of the guy's plates and maybe of him (and/or his hawt girlfriend), and turn the info over to the sheriff's.
    Ok. You're hired!

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve
    Ok. You're hired!
    Yeah, but I'm gonna be "shuttling" Trestle for the most part...
    But if I do see him (black DJ w/ a yellow skater lid right?), game on!

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    Look, there's an easy answer to this: ride with Godzilla. Godzilla will chase him down, uphill or down, and then paint the trail with the guy's blood. You get to watch, maybe enjoy a brat on the grill, a cold beer, a few laughs if the guys is able to put up any fight at all, and all you have to do post bail and give 'zilla a ride home from the detention center.
    You sure this is still the case? Last thing I heard was he converted all his bikes to fixies, grew out his hair and has become a nihilist hippie living in the woods. The only time anyone sees him now is when you photoshop him into pics of the CO trail.

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by thump
    You sure this is still the case? Last thing I heard was he converted all his bikes to fixies, grew out his hair and has become a nihilist hippie living in the woods. The only time anyone sees him now is when you photoshop him into pics of the CO trail.
    There's more truth to that than you know. This is the last known picture of Josh actually riding a bike.

    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    There's more truth to that than you know. This is the last known picture of Josh actually riding a bike.
    And somehow he still does not appear to suck at it.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    There's more truth to that than you know. This is the last known picture of Josh actually riding a bike.

    If a biker rides in the woods, and nobody is around to take pics, is it still a ride?

    Bah! There may be 3.6 grams of truth to the Nihilist part - but that's about the extent of it. In fact, you could have caught me several times in the last week alone hanging out in the parking lots at 3 Sisters, Bergen Peak and LOTB, shirtless, listening to my car stereo really loud, building dirt jumps on nearby trails, skidding around corners and screaming at old (female - they're less likely to actually punch) hikers.

    A reptile cannot live on Waterton and Deer Creek alone...
    Now with more vitriol!

  97. #97
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    Can we get back on track and keep talking about that dbag.

    This has been one of the more addictive threads lately!

    Is the "Make love not war" crowd gonna let the "bloodlust gang" have the last word?
    Is ZRM gonna tell us how wise he is again?

    Enquiring minds want to know!

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by guacamole
    Can we get back on track and keep talking about that dbag.

    This has been one of the more addictive threads lately!

    Is the "Make love not war" crowd gonna let the "bloodlust gang" have the last word?
    Is ZRM gonna tell us how wise he is again?

    Enquiring minds want to know!

    Ok.
    Imagine that that scumbag runs over your girlfriend.
    He's laughing at her!
    Shes crying!
    He spits on your dog!
    He says mean things about your mom!

    Then would you hit him?

  99. #99
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    I was at a topless bar one time (it's true). Four of us at my table, one of them a tough guy/sweetest guy you'll ever meet type friend. He's now a lawyer, but I digress.

    The guy at the table next to us is hassling the waitress, being a real dbag. He just keeps giving her a hard time. My table, we're just looking at each other (and the dancer) wondering how can anybody be such an azzhat with the scenery such as it is.

    The guy won't stop. Finally my friend leans over, grabs the guy by the shirt collar, throws him to the ground, makes a big meaty fist hovers over him and says "you want a piece of this?" The guy calmed down right away.

    I'm not that kind of guy but it was sweet to see it in action. The guy shut up, the waitress went about her business unhassled. Just sayin'...
    So it seems to me to be, this thing that I think I see.

  100. #100
    hehe ...you said "member"
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    Quote Originally Posted by chillmolly
    A couple of years ago a guy ran me off the trail as he was bombing down a section of Centennial Cone. My husband saw the whole thing - he turned around, chased down the wanker on the next climb, and gave him a verbal thrashing. My husband reminded the punk that if a 40 year old man can turn around on a climb, follow you on a downhill, and catch you on the next climb that your racing career is over.

    M
    Classic.
    Best post on this thread
    “Me fail english? Thats unpossible.” - Matt Groening

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