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  1. #1
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    New question here. 4 Guys trashing Apex

    Ran into 4 guys yesterday evening trashing Enchanted and Apex by skidding their 2.5" freeride rear tires around every corner and switchback. I ended up passing them heading out of Enchanted on my cross-country bike with 2.0 pythons and NOT skidding everywhere.

    They seemed polite enough, but I was disappointed in the trail damage being done. And yes, I know Apex is already 'trashed' but now I am starting to see huge grooves caused by what I have to figure is intentional locking up of the rear tire coming into corners and switchbacks to swing the back end around MOTO style . Moto technique is fine on maintained trails like Keystone (they spend a ton of time working on trails because the cash from lift access ) but on a heavy use trail like Apex, conservation is in order.

    Thing is, I don't think that these guys knew how to use their front brakes! How do you teach that the front is for speed control?

    Bummer. How do we educate before we lose these trails?

    Concerned,
    IMBA & COMBA member
    Last edited by I_Ride; 06-26-2006 at 12:10 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_Ride
    Thing is, I don't think that these guys knew how to use their front brakes! How do you teach that the front is for speed control?

    How do we educate before we lose these trails?
    Very simple, you tell them that skidding down multi-use trails is for half-wit hacks, and that
    they need to learn how to ride or stay away from our trails. Personally, I think that we ("we" being the DH community) need to go out of our way make a point with clowns like these since, to the uninitiated, they appear to be representative of our group.
    Now with more vitriol!

  3. #3
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    so you and they were stopped by each other long enough for you to read the size of their tires? Surely you could have spent the time talking to them rather than just get their tire size, classify them as "freeriders" and stir up yet more sh!t in this forum over the problems with human stupidity at apex?
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  4. #4
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    They spend lots of time working on the trails at Keystone? Which trails? I don't think I've ridden any there that have regular maintenance...
    Be nice if guys like those skidders would read signs at the trailhead, b/c then you could just post it there and not have to worry. But seeing as that's not gonna happen, a little spoken advice is probably the best we can do.
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  5. #5
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    A problem is still a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    so you and they were stopped by each other long enough for you to read the size of their tires? Surely you could have spent the time talking to them rather than just get their tire size, classify them as "freeriders" and stir up yet more sh!t in this forum over the problems with human stupidity at apex?
    Apex is a problem... How do we solve it. Plugging our virtual ears by not "stirring up yet more sh!t" will not fix it. In response:

    Lets see here... Me, 140lbs guy. Them 160-180lbs each... Last time I stopped to have a civil conversation it just about ended up in me getting the crap beat out of me for simply offering some advice on how to run the corners faster. joy. I guess I could always head UP the trail if things got ugly.

    The reason I know at least one of the guys had a 2.5 on the back is I followed him for a bit before he 'fell over' and I think it was the same Hutchinson Octopus I ride on my other rig). I cannot say wiped out because that would imply that he had some speed.

    Maybe some signage about skidding?

  6. #6
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    Wes, this topic was chewed on pretty well three weeks ago, in the "Downhillers infest apex today" thread, Downhillers infesting Apex today
    If you haven't read it, give it a shot. My guess is many folks don't want to have this same discussion every three weeks for eternity. That is the reason for my sarcastic response.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    so you and they were stopped by each other long enough for you to read the size of their tires? Surely you could have spent the time talking to them rather than just get their tire size, classify them as "freeriders" and stir up yet more sh!t in this forum over the problems with human stupidity at apex?
    I agree, sorry, but this is just another "I hate everyone on Apex that has big tires and I gotta un-unite the MTB community again" thread. So did you follow them through Enchanted the whole way seeing the skids take place to know that they had done all of them?? I have 2.5's but on a rigid bike, that is a big generalization, once again sturring crap up. I get p1$$3d at all the XC guys (yes, I am one too), I mean they have been WAY worse to deal with then the DH guys as far as yielding. I mean seems as if knowone over there understands yield the trail except them (but I don't come on-line and bash them all after I ride there). And if you were by them and they were so nice why don't you use some people skills and try to educate them rather than coming on here and telling everyone how crappy riding at Apex is (THAT IS HOW YOU EDUCATE PEOPLE BTW, TALK TO THEM...make sure they understand they are doing things wrong, find out if it really was them, ect.)?? Have you done any trail work on Apex?? If you are really concerned you could start a trail day there or start a bike clinic. You do belong to IMBA so that is a good (many of us here also belong). Sorry for the rant but just go out there, ride and get over it!! There are problems with horses, hikers, many user groups...but we are all here b1tching about eachother...looks GREAT to the other user groups and our ability to be finite there if we can't come together as a collective group. Once again, sorry for the rant, but the answer is to tackle the problem head-on. You could have talked to them and you chose not to. Then you came on here to ask how to change the outcome and educate people, maybe we as humans need to ask these questions to ourselves first as a check to make sure we don't already have the answer. It is funny how it is ALWAYS Apex, doesn't anyone else find that fact interesting??
    Black Sheep...where it'ss at!!
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_Ride
    Apex is a problem... How do we solve it. Plugging our virtual ears by not "stirring up yet more sh!t" will not fix it. In response:

    Lets see here... Me, 140lbs guy. Them 160-180lbs each... Last time I stopped to have a civil conversation it just about ended up in me getting the crap beat out of me for simply offering some advice on how to run the corners faster. joy. I guess I could always head UP the trail if things got ugly.

    The reason I know at least one of the guys had a 2.5 on the back is I followed him for a bit before he 'fell over' and I think it was the same Hutchinson Octopus I ride on my other rig). I cannot say wiped out because that would imply that he had some speed.

    Maybe some signage about skidding?
    TALK TO THEM...Yes you're 140...I'm less. Talk to them in a more polite manner?? And the comment about speed and falling over...Okay so now we have established they may be beginner and not know what they are doing is bad (you are bashing them again...publically...so what should you do to solve this, TALK TO THEM...don't keep bringing this crap here if it is avoidable!!). So now you are not sure about the rear tire?? Nice generalization then.
    Black Sheep...where it'ss at!!
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    B I N G O

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Wes, this topic was chewed on pretty well three weeks ago, in the "Downhillers infest apex today" thread, Downhillers infesting Apex today
    If you haven't read it, give it a shot. My guess is many folks don't want to have this same discussion every three weeks for eternity. That is the reason for my sarcastic response.
    We have B I N G O!!!!
    Black Sheep...where it'ss at!!
    "I'm not known for my patience. Patience is a polite quality and often appropriate, but it rarely gets things done. Impatience, however, is the hunger for results and intolerance for excuses and delays." LA

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_Ride
    Last time I stopped to have a civil conversation it just about ended up in me getting the crap beat out of me for simply offering some advice on how to run the corners faster.
    if that is the result when you try to have a civil conversation, then I can just imagine the results of one where you go in looking for a fight...

    If you had the opportunity to speak with them AT THE TIME, then that is when you could have expected the best results from action. Starting yet another apex thread here is going to have the same effect. Perhaps you need to work on your approach a little. If that doesn't work, do what I do. I carry a small aerosol can of pepper spray in the easy to reach side pocket of my camelback. Works well on dogs, rednecks, unruly downhillers, lycra-clad 22 pound bike riding xc guys [just joking to point out the unfairness of sterotyping]. I'm not kiding about the pepper spray though. Good 15 buck investment.
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  11. #11
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    Remember: "Skids are for kids."

    This message was brought to you by the number 8 and the letter K. ;-)
    Biker? I don't even know her.

  12. #12
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    miSSionary - I guess it came off as a "I hate .... Apex ... un-unite" thread. Maybe I could have named it differently like; "How do we educate the guys trashing Apex"

    "So did you follow them through Enchanted the whole way seeing the skids take place to know that they had done all of them??"
    I followed them down the last downhill section after the mini-bridge gully. I noticed a dust cloud as I came down the hill and came upon a guy sliding it around the corner (that's why I caught him)... He and the guy right in front of him were skidding around all the corners. I passed both of them at the exit to Apex where I then caught the other two guys that were riding in a similar style. My guess is that they all came from the same 'school' and the guy 'teaching' (the lead guy) would get pissy if I said anything... And YES; that is just a guess based on previous encounters with like riders. In their book, I or anyone else NOT in a Open Space or Forest Service uniform has no right to comment on riding style.

    Unfortunately, stopping and 'educating' is no longer an option for me. Too many times it has turned confrontational for me to attempt having a discussion any more.

    As far as trail maintenance, Yes I have done a bit and still donate a bit of cash to IMBA every year.

    "It is funny how it is ALWAYS Apex, doesn't anyone else find that fact interesting??"
    And yes it usually is Apex as it is the only shuttle available ride other than Falcon and that shuttle really sux.

  13. #13
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    Skids are 4 kids

    Quote Originally Posted by SylentK
    Remember: "Skids are for kids."

    This message was brought to you by the number 8 and the letter K. ;-)
    That's what I am talking about! How about some signs around Enchanted... "Skids are for kids"

  14. #14
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    Roughed up here too...

    I guess there is no sense it attempting to find a solution. As expected, it doesn't matter if you are on the trail or on a forum. You get roughed up for attempting to fix something.

    Figures.

    Nice posts miSSionary.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_Ride
    Unfortunately, stopping and 'educating' is no longer an option for me. Too many times it has turned confrontational for me to attempt having a discussion any more.

    As far as trail maintenance, Yes I have done a bit and still donate a bit of cash to IMBA every year.

    "It is funny how it is ALWAYS Apex, doesn't anyone else find that fact interesting??"
    And yes it usually is Apex as it is the only shuttle available ride other than Falcon and that shuttle really sux.
    I_Ride,
    Thanks for responding, not trying to be mean but I guess you and I can agree to disagree. I am sorry but I feel if stopping and education is no longer an option then why are you on this board asking for advice on educating people?? If you are here just to rand that won't bring a good conclusion, this happens to always be a heated discusion.
    Nice about IMBA, we all need to do more of that for sure.
    Not true, you can shuttle Chimney, there are others.
    Anywhoo, seems as these guys may have been new to the sport, pointers may have been nice.
    Black Sheep...where it'ss at!!
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_Ride
    I guess there is no sense it attempting to find a solution. As expected, it doesn't matter if you are on the trail or on a forum. You get roughed up for attempting to fix something.

    Figures.

    Nice posts miSSionary.
    No, here you are, bad aproach. Why am I singled out?? It's all my fault for discussing this with you huh?? Seriously, if you won't stop or try and educate why are you here asking for solutions...come on this is valid as a question??
    Black Sheep...where it'ss at!!
    "I'm not known for my patience. Patience is a polite quality and often appropriate, but it rarely gets things done. Impatience, however, is the hunger for results and intolerance for excuses and delays." LA

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_Ride
    I guess there is no sense it attempting to find a solution. As expected, it doesn't matter if you are on the trail or on a forum. You get roughed up for attempting to fix something.

    Figures.

    Nice posts miSSionary.
    Judging from this post and what you said above; "Unfortunately, stopping and 'educating' is no longer an option for me. Too many times it has turned confrontational for me to attempt having a discussion any more.", it sounds like most of your interactions are confrontational, regardless of what the interaction is. You have not offered to fix anything here, from what I can read is you've just come here to vent, which in itself is okay, but perhaps you should intermingle the two. If you can't discuss this civily on or off the trail, then perhaps YOU have some things to work on. Fix yourself instead of trying to fix the world in order for it to work for you.
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    fix myself...

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Judging from this post and what you said above; "Unfortunately, stopping and 'educating' is no longer an option for me. Too many times it has turned confrontational for me to attempt having a discussion any more.", it sounds like most of your interactions are confrontational, regardless of what the interaction is. You have not offered to fix anything here, from what I can read is you've just come here to vent, which in itself is okay, but perhaps you should intermingle the two. If you can't discuss this civily on or off the trail, then perhaps YOU have some things to work on. Fix yourself instead of trying to fix the world in order for it to work for you.
    I was looking for a non-confrontational way of educating... Flyers, signs, etc.

    I think the reason that it tends to get confrontational with me is that I am a small guy. (As a note, my wife has had DH guys as Green Mountain threaten her when she attempted to educate them on the "uphill has the right-of-way" rule.) 4 larger guys will ALWAYS make things confrontational when it is with ONE smaller guy. It is just the way it is.

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    perhaps you should carry TWO of these then:

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_Ride
    I was looking for a non-confrontational way of educating... Flyers, signs, etc.

    I think the reason that it tends to get confrontational with me is that I am a small guy. (As a note, my wife has had DH guys as Green Mountain threaten her when she attempted to educate them on the "uphill has the right-of-way" rule.) 4 larger guys will ALWAYS make things confrontational when it is with ONE smaller guy. It is just the way it is.
    I_Ride,
    You are confrontational. You said they were downhillers, then you said they had big tires but couldn't stay up (meaning you think you are a better rider or they are beginers). I gave you advice, you didn't like it. I said we could agree to disagree and you thanked me for my posts...though I have a feeling you were not sincere as the little guy banging his head into the wall. You keep blaming it on you being small (I am still your size or smaller). You believe because there is one of you and four of them that something aweful may happen if you even say a word (glad I don't live with that kind of fear in life, seriously, that's not healthy). You came here to ask how to handle something you don't want to get your hands dirty handling. Well put your big girl panties on and go ride your bike, then when you want to B1TCH about everyone remember...YOU ARE FORTUNATE TO BE ABLE TO DO THESE THINGS IN SUCH A BEAUTIFUL PLACE...and since you won't confront them anymore, remember what a great ride you had and have a beer...life is too short man, or maybe it's you!!
    Black Sheep...where it'ss at!!
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  21. #21
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    Words to Action...

    Quote Originally Posted by miSSionary
    I_Ride,
    You are confrontational. You said they were downhillers, then you said they had big tires but couldn't stay up (meaning you think you are a better rider or they are beginers). I gave you advice, you didn't like it. I said we could agree to disagree and you thanked me for my posts...though I have a feeling you were not sincere as the little guy banging his head into the wall. You keep blaming it on you being small (I am still your size or smaller). You believe because there is one of you and four of them that something aweful may happen if you even say a word (glad I don't live with that kind of fear in life, seriously, that's not healthy). You came here to ask how to handle something you don't want to get your hands dirty handling. Well put your big girl panties on and go ride your bike, then when you want to B1TCH about everyone remember...YOU ARE FORTUNATE TO BE ABLE TO DO THESE THINGS IN SUCH A BEAUTIFUL PLACE...and since you won't confront them anymore, remember what a great ride you had and have a beer...life is too short man, or maybe it's you!!
    I am glad you are such a man and don't fear irrational people. Come hang out with me at Apex one day and let's have a talk with these guys. I would be curious to see how you handle things better. Put your words into action... I am just trying to save one of the riding places that you are talking about.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_Ride
    I am glad you are such a man and don't fear irrational people. Come hang out with me at Apex one day and let's have a talk with these guys. I would be curious to see how you handle things better. Put your words into action... I am just trying to save one of the riding places that you are talking about.
    Tuesday, 6pm??
    Black Sheep...where it'ss at!!
    "I'm not known for my patience. Patience is a polite quality and often appropriate, but it rarely gets things done. Impatience, however, is the hunger for results and intolerance for excuses and delays." LA

  23. #23
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    I am 6'3", 185 pounds and a pro downhill racer, I used to get beat up all the time by a kid who was about 6" shorter than me (and skinnier) what does size have to do with anything. I have noticed that some "downhill" riders, xc riders, single speeders, cruiser riders, snowboarders, skiers, doctors, lawyers, garbage persons, waiters, waitresses, business owners, homeless people are a-holes and don't have respect for others. Fortunately most people in the above categories do respect others and behave that way. Why do we have to label each other? I have nearly been run over by single speeders, kids trying to learn to downhill, xc racers doing intervals, and recreational riders. The problem is uneducated or inconsiderate people, not a certain "kind" of rider. Sometimes they are actually educated, considerate people who make mistakes.

    Next time ask, “how can we get riders to stop skidding” and you will get a much more positive response.
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  24. #24
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    Where do you want to meet? I ride in from Golden.

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    True. In hindsite, even putting the word "Apex" in a thread title is a bad idea. The better thread would have been... "How to get riders to stop skidding?"

  26. #26
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    Speaking of fat tires and DH, we tried to tear up S. StVrain on saturday, but the trail tore us up. One guy even got a concussion.

    I don't know why people who want a challenging DH run don't do this trail. Hardly anyone on it and it's way more challenging than Apex. There wouldn't be conflict to generate this kind of thread. We saw only two others just starting the ride as we ended.



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    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    I don't know why people who want a challenging DH run don't do this trail. Hardly anyone on it and it's way more challenging than Apex.
    Rich, you answered your own question. It's technically challenging. I think that the inconsiderate dh shuttling, no trail ettiquette minority at apex would rather do speed runs and skid their wheels than have to think, react, and execute the terrain at SSV.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Rich, you answered your own question. It's technically challenging. I think that the inconsiderate dh shuttling, no trail ettiquette minority at apex would rather do speed runs and skid their wheels than have to think, react, and execute the terrain at SSV.
    So what you are saying is, If i want some cool photos of riders wearing the latest in DH garb, I should go to Apex cuz not only will I get some fashionable fotos, there will be some cool rooster tails trailing to help me grab the cover of MBA.

  29. #29
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    What I'm saying is, is if you want to see some pre-pubescent poseur punks pissing off people with their lack of skills, and get some pics of that, go to apex. If you want to snap some real cool photos of ACTUAL riding, head to SSV, North sourdough, Buchanon pass, etc.
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    I_Ride: I thought your posts were neither confrontational nor unconstructive. Starting this thread, regardless of whether or not it has already been hashed out on this forum, makes the riders' misconduct public. If they're newbies, then perhaps they'll find their way here and learn something useful. If they're more experienced and visit this forum regularly, perhaps they might feel some shame for riding as inexperienced riders often do, and change.

    Perhaps this thread (and the other one) will lead to ideas to help mitigate trail confrontations and acts which cause damage, which then might be brought up in meetings with local government. (Such as the sign idea. I know, most people probably wouldn't bother to read it.)

    I don't understand people. They're offended easily. As an example in your defense (among others I might find), you thought you recognized those "freeride" tires because you happen to own a pair of those "freeride" tires yourself.

    I don't think I could generalize the callousness I've been subjected to on Front Range trails as being committed by any one subgroup of mountain bikers. It happens too often. Nor have I tallied up the score when it comes to gracious behavior. But whether we're downhillers or XC riders, tearing up the trails, not yielding to uphill traffic, and scaring the sh!t out of hikers and horses is only doing us--mountain bikers--damage.

    And if you made it all up, then we'll call it an allegory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    Speaking of fat tires and DH, we tried to tear up S. StVrain on saturday, but the trail tore us up. One guy even got a concussion.

    I don't know why people who want a challenging DH run don't do this trail. Hardly anyone on it and it's way more challenging than Apex. There wouldn't be conflict to generate this kind of thread. We saw only two others just starting the ride as we ended.

    yeah i love that trail. one of my favorites...saw the best endo into landing on her feet execution ever just a week ago, she looked like she was 15 feet in the air from behind...
    BBZ

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  32. #32
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    If I want a challenge at Apex I'll ride my rigid bike. When I want a challenge at White Ranch I take my rigid bike. DH bike there? Wtf? Where's the challenge in that?

    Put those clowns on an appropriate bike for the trail.
    Take the long cut, we'll get there eventually.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Debaser
    If I want a challenge at Apex I'll ride my rigid bike.
    Seriously now B...you KNOW that you're a badass...I'd never ride a rigid on Green mtn, let alone apex...Give me as least 6inches of loving.
    The more out of shape you are, the steeper the hill looks.

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    i'll probably regret posting this...

    i for one don't mind these threads... and i think this one is distinctly different than the other one cited. in that thread the issue was reckless/dangerous behavior whereby the offenders were riding too fast downhill and not yielding trail. in this case the offenders were causing damage to the trail by skidding. so they both happened to be at apex-- guess what? apex is perhaps the most frequented JCOS trail on the front range, so conflict is gonna happen.

    believe it or not, some people aren't aware of the rules of the trail, best riding practices, or even basic trail etiquette. i imagine too that someone somewhere sometime probably picked up some good advice from these boards based on threads like this.

    {flame suit on}
    finally, if you don't like a thread, don't contribute to it just to say so and subsequently bump it back to the top and potentially make it even more popular.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_Ride
    I was looking for a non-confrontational way of educating... Flyers, signs, etc.

    I think the reason that it tends to get confrontational with me is that I am a small guy. (As .[/B]

    All the Napoleon complex guys I know are good fighters. You should have kicked their a$$e$. Then stapled signs to their foreheads.


    Don't be such a SALLY

  36. #36
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    Apex Day II

    Quote Originally Posted by I_Ride
    Where do you want to meet? I ride in from Golden.
    Sorry, been off-line. I would love to meet up for a ride at 6pm at the Heritage Lot if that works. I am not out for a fight but would love to hit the trail with you and see if either of us experience the other's normal Apex situation, should be fun!!
    Black Sheep...where it'ss at!!
    "I'm not known for my patience. Patience is a polite quality and often appropriate, but it rarely gets things done. Impatience, however, is the hunger for results and intolerance for excuses and delays." LA

  37. #37
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    A lot of people simply do not know that skidding ruins trails. Some good signs would be very helpful.

  38. #38
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    I saw this suggested in two posts since my last one; the suggestion that those offending riders might read these threads and gain some understanding. I think it's a safe guess to say that perhaps one or two percent of front range riders visit this forum. The rest have no idea this "conversation" is taking place.
    ****

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_Ride
    Ran into 4 guys yesterday evening trashing Enchanted and Apex by skidding their 2.5" freeride rear tires around every corner and switchback. I ended up passing them heading out of Enchanted on my cross-country bike with 2.0 pythons and NOT skidding everywhere.

    They seemed polite enough, but I was disappointed in the trail damage being done. And yes, I know Apex is already 'trashed' but now I am starting to see huge grooves caused by what I have to figure is intentional locking up of the rear tire coming into corners and switchbacks to swing the back end around MOTO style . Moto technique is fine on maintained trails like Keystone (they spend a ton of time working on trails because the cash from lift access ) but on a heavy use trail like Apex, conservation is in order.

    Thing is, I don't think that these guys knew how to use their front brakes! How do you teach that the front is for speed control?

    Bummer. How do we educate before we lose these trails?

    Concerned,
    IMBA & COMBA member
    Here is my suggestion. BIKE PATROL. If there is already bike patrol then maybe we need to contact them directly and voice our concerns. If there is not bike patrol then maybe we need to put one together.
    If we want to educate those out on the trails this is the best way to get it done. It will either do one or two things. It will get them to recongized that YES they need to slow down and watch how they handle their bikes or it will discourage them from riding Apex completely.

    Bike Patrol can also enforce safety for all riders alike. I don't know maybe I'm way off base here but you were looking for suggestions and this is the only one I could come up with.

    Bikergal
    Ride Fast, Take Chances!

  40. #40
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    No good

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    What I'm saying is, is if you want to see some pre-pubescent poseur punks pissing off people with their lack of skills, and get some pics of that, go to apex. If you want to snap some real cool photos of ACTUAL riding, head to SSV, North sourdough, Buchanon pass, etc.

    Umm, no. Don't go there. DH, I must have missed the memo. Thought those trails were for rigid SS?!
    Gone are the days we stopped to decide,
    Where we should go,
    We just ride...

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikergal
    Here is my suggestion. BIKE PATROL. If there is already bike patrol then maybe we need to contact them directly and voice our concerns. If there is not bike patrol then maybe we need to put one together.
    If we want to educate those out on the trails this is the best way to get it done. It will either do one or two things. It will get them to recongized that YES they need to slow down and watch how they handle their bikes or it will discourage them from riding Apex completely.

    Bike Patrol can also enforce safety for all riders alike. I don't know maybe I'm way off base here but you were looking for suggestions and this is the only one I could come up with.

    Bikergal
    JCOS has a volunteer bike patrol that is always looking for people. If you want to patrol Apex specifically, they might even accomodate you doing just that. Jeffco rangers are swamped as it is and do appreciate the help they get from volunteers. Apex is not under the radar to JCOS, it's a well known issue.

    FWIW, I ride on the patrol at Buffalo Creek and sometimes being the 'authority' (even tho patrollers don't enforce laws, just help with advice, directions and mechanicals) goes both ways. Some people respect it, listen and heed the advice, others see a jersey that says 'Volunteer' and automatically think someone's coming down on them. Shrug, you do what you can.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by jugdish
    Umm, no. Don't go there. DH, I must have missed the memo. Thought those trails were for rigid SS?!
    Oh yea, that's right. Sorry, my bad. Some of those trails mentioned have specific weight and travel restictions for bikes. Unless you pay the yearly fee, which is how I get away with it.
    ****

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Oh yea, that's right. Sorry, my bad. Some of those trails mentioned have specific weight and travel restictions for bikes. Unless you pay the yearly fee, which is how I get away with it.

    That's right, pass it on!
    Gone are the days we stopped to decide,
    Where we should go,
    We just ride...

  44. #44
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    solution

    Easy solution, hire a few Fruitians to patrol those trails for a few weeks.

  45. #45
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    not that there's anything wrong w/ that...

    Quote Originally Posted by KarateChicken
    Easy solution, hire a few Fruitians
    Fruitians?!
    ...don't forget CO is a "red state" (or so they say).



    P.S.
    KC, this is how i first "saw" your avatar:
    kchicken.jpg
    "KaratePterodactyl"
    Last edited by gotdirt; 06-27-2006 at 02:12 PM. Reason: fun w/ photoshop

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotdirt
    Fruitians?!
    ...don't forget CO is a "red state" (or so they say).



    P.S.
    KC, this is how i first "saw" your avatar:
    kchicken.jpg
    "KaratePterodactyl"
    That's funny. I'll have to show my nephew that since he created KC.

    Old-School Fruitians would take care of that barney problem. Some are red and some are blue...

  47. #47
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    Put on your big girl panties and use some people skills...

    ...Well I had the chance to ride with I_Ride on Apex last night and I must admit being somewhat harsh. This guy comes rushing in the lot, very nice, and introduces himself. We climb, and climb, and well yes, climb some more. Let me start by saying that I_Ride was able to clear every section I was putting the dabs on and he rode gracefully that way, not with the chip I may have expected. As our ride progresses most people are kind, not seeing as much damage as I remembered just the ride before...and then it happened. Duh!! There we are exiting Enchanted and then down to go back up the switchbacks peaking at Golden and there it was...The nicely rutted section skidded out on the mountain. Well this unfortunately is the part where I must admit I see a problem. So the rest of the ride is great and then there we are in the parking lot and WHAM...four more serious rigs, well less serious riders, come skidding down the parking lot yelling in joy. I said nothing as I was in the lot with I_Ride...but sure we were both in the same frame of mind as I just realized I had said nothing but I also really had no ammo as I saw all this happen on the pavement. Where they skidding or anything distructive on the trail?? Probably. Do I have the answer?? No, I guess not. Does I_Ride have the answer?? Probably not either. Do I have a better respect about the situation cause I rode with another member on the board as we both kept an open mind?? Yes I do...And while I didn't like seeing another controversial thread (so I had to go on it and sturr up controversy, BWAH Ha ha) this experience was a good one as it is easy for all of us to sit here and give advice...I want to thank I_Ride for taking the time to maybe open both of our eyes a little..."You know, signs might not be a bad idea...HEY!!...Skids are for kids!!"...makes ya wonder...well makes me wonder...now anyway.
    miSSionary
    Black Sheep...where it'ss at!!
    "I'm not known for my patience. Patience is a polite quality and often appropriate, but it rarely gets things done. Impatience, however, is the hunger for results and intolerance for excuses and delays." LA

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_Ride
    [COLOR="Navy"] (As a note, my wife has had DH guys as Green Mountain threaten her when she attempted to educate them on the "uphill has the right-of-way" rule.)
    I'm not going to argue about trail etiquette as skidding/not yielding/shuttling multi use trails/ etc. is not cool.

    But the statement about DH guys at Green Mountain... hahahahaha that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Who would take a 45lb 8-10inch travel DH bike to Green Mountain? There is not one redeeming quality about that trail that would motivate a DH'er to go there, not one. There is no way DH'ers are going to go to Green Mountain to push their DH bikes with 40 tooth single ring guides up that hill. Sorry it’s not going to happen.

    Whoever those people were your wife was trying to educate, I have to believe they were not downhillers on DH bikes, it just does not make any sense.

    Here is a photo of a "DH" bike... like I said who would take this bike to GM?

    I'm sure you're wife has had issues with riders at GM not yielding but they were just riders not downhillers. I don't appreciate the stereotypes.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeandski
    I don't appreciate the stereotypes.
    Noted. Bikeandski doesn't "appreciate the stereotypes".
    Gone are the days we stopped to decide,
    Where we should go,
    We just ride...

  50. #50
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    I have 2.5" tires on my XC bike, but I don't skid around turns. I feel so left out, so confused.

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