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  1. #1
    Bad Andy
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    2 golden ?s - chimney/apex connector? south table?

    A couple questions I have thought about and never gotten around to investigating...

    1 - I have done the Chimney/Apex loop for years, and only once checked out if there is any way to connect Apex/Chimney at the bottom, other than the concrete bike path. I am talking North of the Eagle Ridge/Strone Bridge subdiv., to connect on the S side of 19th St/Lkt Mtn Rd, and West side if 6th/93. Years ago, I rode through there once, and couldn't find much, but towards the north side by where the 1st switchback on Lkt Mtn Rd is, I hit that service rd, and on that side it was fenced off, so had to climb the fence. Anyone know of anything there? - it would be nice to be able to link them with less concrete path, and it would only be about a mile worth of trail needed.
    Anything I should know about there? Feel free to PM if needed.

    2 - Is South Table worth investigating with the kids and during the winter? What access point? I saw one that looked at least worth checking off Golden Hills Rd I believe.

    Anyone?......Anyone?.....BUELLER???

  2. #2
    abnormally aspirated
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    1. private property IIRC. park down by golden city brewery, ride past the stadium then under or over 6th to the lot, do chimney/apex, and then down through the hood and on the bike path into golden past the golf course - take that road through campus and drops you right at your vehicle... (if you have to drive there?)

    2. watch the rattlers during warmer times on south table. i've seen many. north table too... but south table = big time.

  3. #3
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    South and North Table Mtn are filed under the 'better than no ride' category. They're both mildly amusing but strictly for lunchtime rides or other quick winter rides. They're less crowded than Green Mountain, but not as fun either.

    South Table is easier to climb than North Table (which has two real grunt climbs), so from that perspective it's better for kids. All the access points to the top of South Table are created about equal, except a few on the NW side which require a little bit of cliff scaling. Basically, get to the top and ride around in circles until you're ready to call it a day. Check out the abandoned Motorcross course and climb the steps to the top where the restaraunt ruins are. The previous poster mentioned rattlers- this is very true, so make sure your dogs and kids are safe (this is actually true all over JeffCo).

    As for a second connector between Apex and Chimney (at the bottom), I think pavement is inevidible and the bike path is your best bet. I always treat the ride as an out-and-back for that reason. Up Chimney to the Nature Center, down the Enchanted Forrest to the ramp where Grubstake Loop starts, around Grubstake, down Pick & Sledge, then back to Chimney. It's about 19 miles that way. You can also just loop Enchanted and go back from there for a shorter ride.

  4. #4
    Bad Andy
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    1. bummer - that'd be a nice alternative with a trail thru that area - any idea who owns it? I have ridden the route your are talking about for many years, but start at my house in heritage dells - the neihborhood right north of heritage square and apex that the concrete path goes thru.

    2. thanks - maybe better to ignore the area!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by andychrysler
    1. bummer - that'd be a nice alternative with a trail thru that area - any idea who owns it?
    At least a good chunk of it is owned by CSM. It's their surveying field. I think Golden Water might own some of it too.

  6. #6
    abnormally aspirated
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    don't write off South Table completely. In the spring before the days are long enough for proper rides and there is moisture, it is often super-green, pretty, and lush. It also melts pretty quick and has a lot of southern exposure (just make sure it isn't still wet. if you haven't been properly introduced to bentonite, best to keep it that way.). but as hairy legs said - a better ride than no ride.

    it also gets some good sunlight later than the other front range trails hiding in the shadows during short-daylight days, so you might squeeze a little more daylight on mellow-cruisey terrain there than at apex or someplace like that...

  7. #7
    Singletrack Daydreamer
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    I love STM for a quick 60-90 minute after work hit in the winter. It's snow-free almost all the time, dries out quickly (but as noted, nasty mud when it's wet), and you hardly ever encounter other riders.

    From mid-October through mid-March, rattlers aren't a problem, but by mid-April, they come out and some days, they're everywhere. I've ridden up there some years and not seen a single one all spring, but other years (like this year) there seemed to be 1-2 every time I was up there. I don't think they're much of a threat if you're riding and don't stop without looking where you're setting your foot down (I've accidently stepped within 6" of one and it coiled but didn't strike), but they are a bit unnerving (similar to cougars, but then again, I'm sure far more people get bit by rattlers than cougars every year).

    Overall, it's a good place to have in your quiver of rides, but not as fun as White Ranch, Falcon, or most of the other Jeffco Open Spaces. Still, while they're still under 12" of snowpack, STM is waiting to be ridden.

  8. #8
    Bad Andy
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    Good input all, thanks.
    Been riding around here around 17 years or so, and never been there. Just assumed it was too boring, but good points on winter rides, and earlier spring rides.
    Maybe I'll see ya out there.
    Look for an out of breath (don't ride much in the off-season!) guy on a silver '01 stumpy w/ v brakes...

  9. #9
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    I accidentally ran over a rattler up on south table in September, made my heart jump for sure!

    Don't know of any way to connect apex and chimney without riding the cement path.

  10. #10
    Bad Andy
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    brett, hairy, rocky, anyone else...
    Is south table 1) legal 2)relatively safe, to ride at night? Meaning - I know there are mountain lions - anyone seen one up there at night? Any of you ride it at night?

  11. #11
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    south tabletop

    I've never ridden south tabletop. Where are the trail heads? Is it like north table top? I got the impression that the trails on the side of north table top were more for hiking then the top.

    Marc

  12. #12
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    S Table is good night riding

    Quote Originally Posted by andychrysler
    brett, hairy, rocky, anyone else...
    Is south table 1) legal 2)relatively safe, to ride at night? Meaning - I know there are mountain lions - anyone seen one up there at night? Any of you ride it at night?
    I'm not sure about the legality, but it's never been an issue for me. I've ridden up there many nights. I've never seen a mtn lion, but you WILL run into coyotes and foxes- which shouldn't really scare you.
    Last edited by hairylegs; 12-05-2007 at 05:29 AM.

  13. #13
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    Many access points to the mesa

    Quote Originally Posted by mcdelroy
    I've never ridden south tabletop. Where are the trail heads? Is it like north table top? I got the impression that the trails on the side of north table top were more for hiking then the top.

    Marc
    If you ride around the bottom of the mesa, you'll see many, many different access points to the top. The best access points are on the South side by NREL but they're no means the only ones. Towards the West side, there's a few that require you to scale a cliff and aren't ridable (and I wouldn't advise doing the hike-a-bike thing either).

    Don't worry about a route, you can't get lost since you're on top of a mesa that's surrounded by roads. You can always figure out where you are. There's a complicated spiderweb of trails at the top. Some are surprisingly fun. Just ride around until you've had enough. To add climbing, explore the trails that go to the bottom and climb back up. The ones on the Northeast side have some steep grunts that you wouldn't expect. It's by no means an epic ride, but it's ridable most of the year (and I can ride it over lunch since my office parking lot borders it) and it will fix your riding jones.

    Make sure you spend a little time at the old motocross course every ride. There's some fun banked corners and short steeps. There's also a couple abandoned mines, the ruins of a burnt down restaruant, an old quarry, and the several other oddities to check out.

    It's not great, but it's fun enough when even Dakota Ridge and Green Mtn aren't options. I don't want to over sell it.

  14. #14
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    just FYI

    being a JCOS park, it is in fact against the rules to ride STM after dusk...

    also, a good chunk of STM is still private property, whereas all of the top of NTM is now controlled by JCOS. seems as fast as the land owners fix the fences/signs, they get torn down, but it isn't hard to see. maybe someday the owners will abandon thoughts of development or commercial profit and sell to the county.

    $.02.
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  15. #15
    Front Range XC
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    Nike Company

    Didn't Nike once want to put up offices on top of one of the mesas? That would have been real nice.....

    Marc

  16. #16
    Singletrack Daydreamer
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    In 2005/2006 winter I rode up on STM about twice a week all winter long. Last winter threw me off of that regularity since it was snowed in or muddy until almost March, but I think it's perfect night riding. I rode again in the spring of this year, but it was an awful year up there for rattlers (the worst I've ever seen it and I've been riding up there since 1997), so I stopped doing my solo night rides this summer in fear that a wreck in the wrong place could take a turn for the worse. I've never seen a mountain lion up there, but given there presence everywhere else on the front range, I'd suspect they're up there, too. Lots and lots of deer, sometimes it seems like the entire mesa is covered in eyes... and if you want to be afraid of something, deer are responsible for more fatalities in the US than any other mammal (seriously, they are, but I think the stats are inflated due to traffic fatalities involving them). The biggest danger to me has been the #$@% carsonite posts up there that are invisible if approached from the edge at night.

    There's a lot of little trails up there and this motionbased data should attest to that. I'm definitely looking for a new person to do night rides with up there, so if you're interested, PM me and we'll set something up.
    Train 'til you puke. Cheat to win. Party like a rockstar. We miss you, Jan!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcdelroy
    Didn't Nike once want to put up offices on top of one of the mesas? That would have been real nice.....
    i wasn't in golden then, but have read/heard quite a bit about that fiasco... apparently there was some dubious dealings between local (city of golden) government and nike-- essentially trying to get the deal done on the hush-hush w/o public involvement. if memory serves, they wanted to put a factory up there (STM) and huge parking lots for the hundreds of employees. word of this sneaky plan leaked and the public outcry was understandably over-the-top. i believe that was the impetus for the "save the mesas" organization, with which the MTB community has occasionally butted heads, but who did have representation on the ad hoc committee that ultimately came to a "multi use" recommendation for NTM.

    STM is the bigger of the two mesas and has more "social trails" (though as stated above, many are actually on private property), so it would be nice to see this acquired in full at some point.
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  18. #18
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    Sounds about the same as I recall, Dirt. Something like a 10,000 employee plant that ended up somewhere in the Pacific Northwest. There were legitimate concerns brought up with the lack of road infrastructure to support the development, and Nike bowed out saying that the tax situation wasn't made appealing enough to lure them to Denver. While the 700 acres recently acquired is a start, in some ways, it makes the remaining private holdings just that much more appealing to developers.
    Train 'til you puke. Cheat to win. Party like a rockstar. We miss you, Jan!

  19. #19
    Yappy little dog!
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    Ntm

    I have never been on STM, but I really like NTM. Ok, so my backyard is on it, but it's a great quick workout and is really becoming a lot easier to climb for me. There's a lot of potential up there for some great swoopy rollercoaster type trails. Everything seems to be on the outer edges, but putting some trails through the middle and over some of the rocks would be a great addition. Even some of the deer trails, though not technically legal, are fun. My only gripe is the seemingly endless supply of goat heads.



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  20. #20
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    Here are the varying entrances I know about.
    Attached Images Attached Images
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  21. #21
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    [QUOTE=schnauzers]I have never been on STM, but I really like NTM. Ok, so my backyard is on it, but it's a great quick workout and is really becoming a lot easier to climb for me. There's a lot of potential up there for some great swoopy rollercoaster type trails. Everything seems to be on the outer edges, but putting some trails through the middle and over some of the rocks would be a great addition. Even some of the deer trails, though not technically legal, are fun. My only gripe is the seemingly endless supply of goat heads.
    [QUOTE]
    I never really make it to NTM that often but I can say with absolute certainty that climbing NTM is much more physically demanding than climbing STM. So it is a better workout.

    The endless supply of goat heads complements the endless supply of rattlesnakes. I've see rattlers everywhere in the front range, but they're all over North Table Mtn.

  22. #22
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    Newer Trail on North Table Mountain

    Okay, I'll admit its been a while since I've been up there, but I went up there last Sunday. I crawled up the steep fire road from 93 and hung my frist left onto a singletrack (that takes you behind the Lava Fields). What a blast of a trail (for up there). I know its not on the OSAC plan, and they want to make that area off limits, but seriously, why would they want to do that? That trail is better designed, created and laid out than what Jeffco did at Centennial cone park. (i.e. its not for handicap access). I may have to add some other new connectors up there too!

    If they don't create a multitude of trails, people will do what they want on that property anyway. I saw 8 hikers randomly roaming through there (okay, and I'm the bad guy for sticking to trails?)

    Bad hikers (smack) bad hikers.
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  23. #23
    Yappy little dog!
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndecentExposure
    Okay, I'll admit its been a while since I've been up there, but I went up there last Sunday. I crawled up the steep fire road from 93 and hung my frist left onto a singletrack (that takes you behind the Lava Fields). What a blast of a trail (for up there). I know its not on the OSAC plan, and they want to make that area off limits, but seriously, why would they want to do that? That trail is better designed, created and laid out than what Jeffco did at Centennial cone park. (i.e. its not for handicap access). I may have to add some other new connectors up there too!

    If they don't create a multitude of trails, people will do what they want on that property anyway. I saw 8 hikers randomly roaming through there (okay, and I'm the bad guy for sticking to trails?)

    Bad hikers (smack) bad hikers.
    EXACTLY!!! Someone even went through the trouble of putting some cairns there too.

    I followed one of the deer trails down into the little valley up there. There's some really cool stuff there as well.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by schnauzers
    EXACTLY!!! Someone even went through the trouble of putting some cairns there too.

    I followed one of the deer trails down into the little valley up there. There's some really cool stuff there as well.
    Not only Cairns, but several spots have little rocks on either side of the trail. Seriously, fun trail.

    I even talked with a FR guy that was playing around on the ledges on and around the Lava fields.... so much for Jeffco and their precious little preservation project. Seriously, the fun stuff IS in the area's that they don't want you....
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotdirt
    i wasn't in golden then, but have read/heard quite a bit about that fiasco... apparently there was some dubious dealings between local (city of golden) government and nike-- essentially trying to get the deal done on the hush-hush w/o public involvement. if memory serves, they wanted to put a factory up there (STM) and huge parking lots for the hundreds of employees. word of this sneaky plan leaked and the public outcry was understandably over-the-top. i believe that was the impetus for the "save the mesas" organization, with which the MTB community has occasionally butted heads, but who did have representation on the ad hoc committee that ultimately came to a "multi use" recommendation for NTM.

    STM is the bigger of the two mesas and has more "social trails" (though as stated above, many are actually on private property), so it would be nice to see this acquired in full at some point.
    IF memory serves, the main reason they did that was generate PR. Nike didn't even check with local governments to even see if it were feasable to create a factory up there, but did so anyway to make the West coast alternative to budge for tax breaks. With their threats to take it to Denver, Portland then recoprocated and lowered their Tax requirements. Nike wanted the Portland area first, and used the STM as a prop. Odd, but that's what happened. Everyone within the state of Colorado (except the residents of Aurora) were saying "hell no".
    Golden Bike Park Group

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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndecentExposure
    Not only Cairns, but several spots have little rocks on either side of the trail. Seriously, fun trail.

    I even talked with a FR guy that was playing around on the ledges on and around the Lava fields.... so much for Jeffco and their precious little preservation project. Seriously, the fun stuff IS in the area's that they don't want you....
    OK. So COMBA asked TE for some crew leaders. If they scheduled a mini crew for NTM to BUILD new stuff in biker happy area, I'll be there (certified COTI/OSI Trail Crew Leader). At least then it would be sustainable trail.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by schnauzers
    OK. So COMBA asked TE for some crew leaders. If they scheduled a mini crew for NTM to BUILD new stuff in biker happy area, I'll be there (certified COTI/OSI Trail Crew Leader). At least then it would be sustainable trail.
    Well, due to the delay because of the political BS of the Trail Use Task Force that Jeffco didn't even take into consideration, its a free for all up there. They want to use 'existing' trails because of the dipsh!t hikers and freak-a-zoid environmentalists from Boulder want just that. Well, because of beaucratic delay's, new trails will go in, and the very hikers that are hard core environmentalists will also create new trails.

    I'm going to ride it and defend it too. This smells of the same legalization process of how "hazard County" was developed in Moab / La Sals.
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  28. #28
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    Cool-blue Rhythm you guys are killin' me...



    oh well. i've advised OSAC on more than one occasion that the longer they wait to put signage up there, the harder it is going to be to control off-limits areas and new "social" trails.

    even so, i'd encourage everyone to stick to the proper trails up there.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotdirt


    oh well. i've advised OSAC on more than one occasion that the longer they wait to put signage up there, the harder it is going to be to control off-limits areas and new "social" trails.

    even so, i'd encourage everyone to stick to the proper trails up there.
    Cool. I don't even know what is and isn't considered a social trail because lack of information stuck in the political processes. Until then, I will stick to those trails that look like social trails. Problem is, there are tons of Deer/Elk Trails that look legit.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotdirt


    oh well. i've advised OSAC on more than one occasion that the longer they wait to put signage up there, the harder it is going to be to control off-limits areas and new "social" trails.

    even so, i'd encourage everyone to stick to the proper trails up there.


    Oh Terry, nothing to worry about. I looked both ways to make sure no one was watching me.

    Truthfully, they looked like real trails so I ASSumed they were. They are pretty heavily cut in already. Reclaiming them won't be easy, because there really no material up there to reclaim them with. I think the best bet now is to minimize the next thing that will happen, braiding.

  31. #31
    Bad Andy
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    Anyone know what was going on the south side of STM last night around 8pm or so? I was driving E on HW 40/Colfax, and happened to notice a bunch of emergency vehicle flashing lights (looked like anyway) up there. Kinda up above NREL or somewhere close.

  32. #32
    Bad Andy
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndecentExposure
    Here are the varying entrances I know about.
    What's the pink-ish looking thing between the 2nd and 3rd arrows from the left?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by andychrysler
    Anyone know what was going on the south side of STM last night around 8pm or so? I was driving E on HW 40/Colfax, and happened to notice a bunch of emergency vehicle flashing lights (looked like anyway) up there. Kinda up above NREL or somewhere close.
    The State owns a Race Track / Test Track facility up there. They do maneuvers up there often, sometime with lights at night....

    Or one of them officer spun out and crashed... which would make the lights legit.

    IE
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by andychrysler
    What's the pink-ish looking thing between the 2nd and 3rd arrows from the left?
    Its a bed.
    Seriously, though its a lodging Icon (Shows where various hotels, motels and B&Bs are in Google Earth. I use it when I travel.
    Golden Bike Park Group

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