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  1. #1
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    XT Cassette Loses It's Battle.....

    Against diesel torque.

    Maybe 300 miles on this bad boy.

    The bike was just sitting there....and all of the sudden POP, crash, grind. It was broken.

    Something look funny?

    002 by jonshonda187, on Flickr

    Broken

    003 by jonshonda187, on Flickr

    Yup...it broke

    005 by jonshonda187, on Flickr


    006 by jonshonda187, on Flickr

  2. #2
    turtles make me hot
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    Holy crap.
    I can't imagine doing that. I can leg press 750 pounds and I've never done that to a cassette.
    I like turtles

  3. #3
    Drinkin' the 29er KoolAid
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    Doing some hucking on that bike, perhaps?

  4. #4
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    Those teeth look shark-finned already at 300 miles!

  5. #5
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    Impressive, good work. Never accomplished that before.

  6. #6
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    User error for that to happen.

  7. #7
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    Had that happen to me, I don't know, maybe 6-7 years ago. XT cassette snapped the same way. But I had a lot more than 300 on mine. I push the big gears, not a spinner, but have not have it happen again. Changed to Sram after that, and had no problems since. Back on XT for the moment, so will see. I don't anticipate any problems.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooTallUK View Post
    User error for that to happen.
    Do tell

  9. #9
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    The power you generate on the bike has very little to do with weight or size. If it did, pro cyclists would all be 6'6" and 400lbs. If it did, 300 miles would be normal for a cassette. It isn't.
    So - what were you doing? Mashing the same big gears up every hill? Hucking big jumps with a too-short chain and bad landing technique? Bad spannering?
    Materials do not just give up and fail - something has to be putting them under unusual stresses and that isn't usually from riding a bike using smooth gear changes and a flowing technique.

    I've just read your other discussions of this on other threads:

    The past year has seen; 5 bottom brackets, a x9 crank set, hope pro2 fh body, spesh seat, one pedal, two broken spokes, two cassettes, a few different seat post clamps, cracked (in three places) frame, specialized seat post, one chain, and more hours maintaining that i would care to admit.
    Bad spannering or user error - no doubt. That sort of failure rate is way beyond normal.

  10. #10
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    That gave me a good chuckle Tall man, actually stuff does give up and fail. Just feel lucky you haven't had to experience it. The bike industry doesn't design bikes or equipment for large guys, their target rider is under 200 lbs.

  11. #11
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    TooTallUK, I cannot tell if troll or serious?

    Quote Originally Posted by TooTallUK View Post
    The power you generate on the bike has very little to do with weight or size. If it did, pro cyclists would all be 6'6" and 400lbs..
    You are stating that a 150lb rider standing, mashing up a hill, will generate the same forces on the drivetrain as a 275lb rider? The physical act of me standing up and applying my weight (weight only) to a crank arm = nearly double the force of a 150lb rider doing the same. Heck, the force required to even get me up a hill is nearly double.

    The reason pro's are not 6'6" and 400 lbs also has a lot to do with physics. Easy comparision. A cadillac vs. mini cooper on a road race course. Cadillac requires lots of power to get up to speed, keep up to speed, brake, turn. It needs a much larger moter, much heavier components, much more room to move around, larger brakes etc....
    A Mini Cooper is small, nimble, weights much less therefore requires much less to move it around a track.

    According to your logic, you are implying that the same force required to move 150lb load is equal to the force required to move a 275 lb load? That is false. If we lived in ZERO gravity, this would be true. I am not riding a moonlander, so that logic does not apply.

    Quote Originally Posted by TooTallUK View Post
    So - what were you doing? Mashing the same big gears up every hill? Hucking big jumps with a too-short chain and bad landing technique? Bad spannering? .
    The situation is rooty rocky flat to large steep hill. Standing on this is common for many riders here, as it is also rooty and very rocky, so sitting is difficult.
    Bad spannering (had to look this up) is not out of the question, but I have a pretty new KMC chain, and the cassette was hanging on a brand new PRO 2 hub, tighten down to spec.

    Quote Originally Posted by TooTallUK View Post
    Materials do not just give up and fail - something has to be putting them under unusual stresses and that isn't usually from riding a bike using smooth gear changes and a flowing technique. .
    Materials just don't give up and fail. I will spread the news to engineers everywhere, their worries are over!!

    The stresses you are reffering to are simple. I am using a cummings deisel on a drivetrain mostly designed for a Honda four cylinder.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch1413 View Post
    That gave me a good chuckle Tall man, actually stuff does give up and fail. Just feel lucky you haven't had to experience it. The bike industry doesn't design bikes or equipment for large guys, their target rider is under 200 lbs.
    As a 250lbs+, 6'7" tall, 21 year mountain biker, I am not shooting blind here. Aluminium doesn't just fail, steel doesn't turn to cheese - it does not just 'give up and fail'. Something has to happen in order to make it fail. Too many big riders blame their size for what is user error.

  13. #13
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    As I said - materials do not just fail - you have to do something to them in order to fail.

    Your track record of multiple bottom brackets etc tell me that poor maintenance has a bigger part to play than you weighing a little more than me.

    a drivetrain mostly designed for a Honda four cylinder
    Rather than just guessing, do you know the actual numbers for the design of a drivetrain, or any other part for that matter? I've not seen anyone come up with actual numbers for much, but an average bike chain will fail at about 2000lbs load - which you are not generating. So many people say it isn't designed for 'us' but I have yet to see numbers to back that up.

  14. #14
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    jonshonda's 9:ZERO:7 speaking. I can confirm that jonshonda does in fact follow good maintenance practices, keeps me clean and well lubed in all the right places. He is hard on me sometimes, but that is how I like it. I can also confirm that jonshonda was standing and mashing at the time of my cassette failure. No wrong doing was occuring at the time of failure.

    Straight from the horses mouth. What other proof do you need?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooTallUK View Post
    materials do not just fail
    Stuff fails all the time. Its not user error, is operating equipment outside of its intended design. Granted riding styles (mashers vs spinners), smoothness, terrain all have an impact but your statement that stuff doesn "just fail" is incorrect.

  16. #16
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    Actually, you guys argue over a false dillema.

    Materials do fail on their own. Just like assembly may be faulty. For example a bit too little preload of the rivets on the cassette carrier will suffice to cause, over time, damage like in OPs pictures. Even the best QC cannot account for all flaws in a product. That is why warranties exist.

    Granted, equipment with flaws that would not bother 150lb rider, may surface when abused by a clyde. However, most bicycle parts are way overbuilt for their intended purpose. No manufacturer will risk 50% failure rate at a cost of 20 or so grams.

    In my opinion the cassete should be warrantied.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by uzurpator View Post
    Actually, you guys argue over a false dillema.


    Granted, equipment with flaws that would not bother 150lb rider, may surface when abused by a clyde. However, most bicycle parts are way overbuilt for their intended purpose. No manufacturer will risk 50% failure rate at a cost of 20 or so grams.

    In my opinion the cassete should be warrantied.
    Shimano agreed that it is a warranty issue.

    Engineers design the product with a certain safety factor for its intended usage. The higher the safety factor, the higher the cost and weight ( depending on material selection). If the intended design was for a certain range of rider size, the safety factor will be based off the range. The designers aren't creating cassettes for the heavy riders, because that percentage of riders falls well out of the bell curve based on the typical rider.

  18. #18
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    I've done the same, but to my single speed chainring.


  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooTallUK View Post
    As a 250lbs+, 6'7" tall, 21 year mountain biker, I am not shooting blind here. Aluminium doesn't just fail, steel doesn't turn to cheese - it does not just 'give up and fail'. Something has to happen in order to make it fail. Too many big riders blame their size for what is user error.
    Yeah, I kinda think the same thing - I started riding at 6'6" 266 lbs (down to 238 ATM) and about the only "too much power" problems I have had is snapping master chain links. All other items have worn at pretty standard rate (aside from 3 seats with crushed seat rails.)

    I would say maybe this guy is putting way more miles than me, but I doubt it or he wouldn't be 275 lbs.

  20. #20
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    Yeah clearly certain brands of parts are designed for certain things. Saint stuff will handle more abuse than XTR, for instance. And, yes, some parts do break when you are 'just riding along', but it seems like the concern is the volume of parts that are being broken. I would say that something would need to change, be it the type of parts you are using, or riding habits.
    “Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world.”
-Grant Petersen

  21. #21
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    Got everything bolted back together and hit the trails. Lately I have been getting funky noise coming from the crank set area (only while on the granny gear). So I took the ring off, cleaned, greased, and applied lock tight to the bolts (I have been noticing them losening up after each ride).

    90% of the ride went off without a hitch. Then I noticed the chain was getting bound up on the granny ring (aka CHAINSUCK!!). I know I put it on correctly and it is bolted tight. Switch to the big ring.... boom, issue gone. No noise, no binding.

    Looks like I have a worn out raceface turbine chainring? How is that user error?
    Last edited by jonshonda; 08-15-2013 at 08:47 AM.

  22. #22
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    I have a picture on my phone that looks EXACTLY like the OP.Broke it last December on a climb standing up.Rough climb on solid rock.Terrible granite climb at the Horse Park in Conyers, Ga.Same xt cassette,same gear.Shimano did warranty it.

  23. #23
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    Forgot to mention i also broke the axle at the same time!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    How is that user error?
    What you have described could easily come from:

    poor chain line
    Corroded / stiff / worn chain
    Chain too long
    Rear mech not doing it's job properly and taking enough tension out of the chain

    Not every problem is user error - many are. You can wear stuff out. What you described could come from many other things.

  25. #25
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    I was kinda joking about the user error part.

    Chain line may be poor. I will have to take measurments to determine if I should remove one spacer from the drive side.

    Chain gets a mineral spirits bath followed by Pro Link Gold fairly often. I did inspect the links that were binding up and they appeared to be moving freely.

    Chain length was determined using the Park Tool diy section, and verified ok by LBS.

    I have a long cage X9 rear der which is less than a year old. I will inspect it for function. What would help me determine if it is not functioning properly?

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