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  1. #1
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    Stack and Reach Charts for pretty much all XL Bikes

    For all you tall people out there, I've compiled geometry for pretty much every XL and XXL bike I can find. What follows is the most exhaustive collection of bikes for tall people that exists on the web to the best of my knowledge.


    Lots of information about how and why I size bikes using stack and reach: The Earth Remains - Journal - Bikes for the Very Tall

    EDIT: Added another way to look at the charts here. This is more useful than the links below.

    Click on any chart for an interactive view, and access to all the geometry numbers for each bike featured.


    Full Suspension Bikes:



    Hardtails:




    Road Bikes:




    All-Road Bikes:



    Fat Bikes:

    Last edited by asollie; 12-03-2017 at 04:13 PM.
    Bikes for the Very Tall - A list I maintain of the largest bikes in the industry. Includes mtb and road.

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    Thank you!!!!!

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    Here - top up your road bike data:
    https://www.cyclingabout.com/list-of...ts-62-63-64cm/

    Of course, not all bikes are available in all markets, but GOOD EFFORT.

    I hope we get something new out of Sea Otter for us tall types.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooTallUK View Post
    Here - top up your road bike data:
    https://www.cyclingabout.com/list-of...ts-62-63-64cm/

    Of course, not all bikes are available in all markets, but GOOD EFFORT.
    Yeah, I'm American and the list is definitely biased towards common brands in the US. Could you tell me the most common or important European companies I should add to my list?
    Bikes for the Very Tall - A list I maintain of the largest bikes in the industry. Includes mtb and road.

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    I tried suggesting this via an edit request, but I really think you should add weight limits for frames for us bigger fellas.

    I sent you a few weight limits for a few brands/models.

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    You should add Guerilla Gravity bikes to your list. You'll find them firmly on the far right side of your graphs. I'm buying one now in XL. Nicolai is also very big rider friendly and makes some of the most artfully finished bikes on the planet

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    That table is very good In fact it gave me a lot second thoughts and I need to revise my sizing approach as I was ignoring Stack and focusing on Reach only.

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    This is brilliant, thank you!

  10. #10
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    Awsome! Thanks.
    Now that I have my XXL Tallboy I will never buy a mountain bike with under 500mm of reach. Never had a bike that actually fit me before. I almost wish I had waited for the Hightower, but would only use the extra travel a couple times a year.

  11. #11
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    Yes...thanks for you spreadsheet...I reference it often! I'm a Trek guy though and noticed you are missing the 23" Trek Fuel 29er (in aluminum). It would slide into your 3 spot on full suspension bikes with a BB-HT of 819.6. Also, the "XXL" Trek Fuel Carbon you have on the list is a 21.5"...they do not make the 23" in that model...

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdailey View Post
    Yes...thanks for you spreadsheet...I reference it often! I'm a Trek guy though and noticed you are missing the 23" Trek Fuel 29er (in aluminum). It would slide into your 3 spot on full suspension bikes with a BB-HT of 819.6. Also, the "XXL" Trek Fuel Carbon you have on the list is a 21.5"...they do not make the 23" in that model...
    Good catches! I need to pay more attention to Trek. Changed the 21.5" carbon model to XL and added the XXL/23" aluminum version to the spreadsheet.
    Bikes for the Very Tall - A list I maintain of the largest bikes in the industry. Includes mtb and road.

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    Quote Originally Posted by asollie View Post
    Good catches! I need to pay more attention to Trek. Changed the 21.5" carbon model to XL and added the XXL/23" aluminum version to the spreadsheet.
    What about the Scott spark 760 or the genius?

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    I know there's not a lot of love for Diamondback around here, but the Release is a pretty decent (and well reviewed) FS trail bike. The XL has stack and reach numbers of 611.8 and 473.3mm, respectively. This puts it on the small end of the chart shown - which agrees with anecdotal reports of some riders as short as 6'1" (myself among them) being more comfortable on the XL (21") than the L (19") size Release.

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    Huge thanks to Asolie for putting that chart together.
    I studied it endlessly this winter trying to decide what to build up.
    I'm a bit over 6'-6"/ 200cm and went with an Evil Wreckoning.
    Its definitely long and with a 35mm riser bar, fits pretty good.

    An equally tall friend picked up the XXL Hightower, but thats shorter travel than my desires.
    I see that SC is advertising 'Hightower LT', but be warned- I spoke with SC about buying a Hightower in May and putting a Fox 36 fork on it and they said the bike performed horribly with even a 150mm fork. I think they are just trying to get another bike out there, as they were a bit light in travel for what most riders are looking for.

    I spoke with Intense and they are rolling out a new Carbine 29 that could be another contender for us tall trail folk out there...

  16. #16
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    I wish I'd found this list 2 months ago. It took me a lot of research to arrive at my 2018 fuel ex 8.

    Great list thanks.

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    Attachment 1158753
    Spark 745 Spark 760 Spark 745
    Attachment 1158754

    Son Josh 6"2 200lbs and Jashper 6"3 215 lbs

    Attachment 1158755

    6"4 283lbs ex bodybuilder

    Attachment 1158756

    745 mine

    Attachment 1158757

    745 again

    Attachment 1158758

    Josh riding, much bigger than his Walmart bike.

    Attachment 1158759

    760

    Reach and stack for Scott Spark 745 and 760 large.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by asollie View Post
    For all you tall people out there, I've compiled geometry for pretty much every XL and XXL bike I can find. What follows is the most exhaustive collection of bikes for tall people that exists on the web to the best of my knowledge.


    Lots of information about how and why I size bikes using stack and reach: The Earth Remains - Journal - Bikes for the Very Tall


    Click on any chart for an interactive view, and access to all the geometry numbers for each bike featured.


    Full Suspension Bikes:



    Hardtails:




    Road Bikes:




    All-Road Bikes:



    Fat Bikes:

    https://www.singletracks.com/blog/mt...ands-compared/
    Here you go this should help you with your chart.

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    Wow this is fantastic!!! I had been building my own for FS bikes and fatbikes but nothing to this level of detail and analysis! Very well done!!

    If you would tho, both 907 and Fatback bikes should get added to the list as then make some XLs that are taller than most. And the Lenz Fatillac for that matter.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by forrestvt View Post
    Wow this is fantastic!!! I had been building my own for FS bikes and fatbikes but nothing to this level of detail and analysis! Very well done!!

    If you would tho, both 907 and Fatback bikes should get added to the list as then make some XLs that are taller than most. And the Lenz Fatillac for that matter.
    Thanks! I couldn't find Stack/Reach numbers for the 907 fatbikes. Same with the Lenz Fatillac. Not sure if they even know... seems like that thing was welded together while someone was drunk. Let me know if you see numbers for any of those bikes somewhere. Added two Fatback bikes.
    Bikes for the Very Tall - A list I maintain of the largest bikes in the industry. Includes mtb and road.

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    My old 907 fat bike was extremely short, not sure if that has changed on the newer models.

    it would be great if you could include the 'size name', ie 'L' or '21"' in the model circle.
    For example, I see the two Trek Fuels listed, carbon and ally, very different. I am fairly sure this is because the alloy comes in a 23" size and the carbon doesn't, but it's still good to mention, for people who aren't familiar with a certain bike.

    On the other hand, you can remove the 'model level' names ie '5' or 'pro' as long as they use the same frame.

    Thanks a lot!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tjaard View Post
    My old 907 fat bike was extremely short, not sure if that has changed on the newer models.

    it would be great if you could include the 'size name', ie 'L' or '21"' in the model circle.
    For example, I see the two Trek Fuels listed, carbon and ally, very different. I am fairly sure this is because the alloy comes in a 23" size and the carbon doesn't, but it's still good to mention, for people who aren't familiar with a certain bike.

    On the other hand, you can remove the 'model level' names ie '5' or 'pro' as long as they use the same frame.

    Thanks a lot!
    It would be great if I could do that. There are limits to google docs though! You can always look it up in the spreadsheets. I'm hoping to eventually move all these charts to some better system, but that would take a while and I'm busy trying to find a real job right now.
    Bikes for the Very Tall - A list I maintain of the largest bikes in the industry. Includes mtb and road.

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    Quote Originally Posted by asollie View Post
    It would be great if I could do that. There are limits to google docs though! You can always look it up in the spreadsheets. I'm hoping to eventually move all these charts to some better system, but that would take a while and I'm busy trying to find a real job right now.
    I think we are misunderstanding each other.

    I meant: in the bike name cell(column A), add the size (from column H) and remove the model level:

    ie: instead of 'FUEL EX 5 29' in column A, put: 'FUEL EX 29, 23"'. then you can delete column H.

    I would also suggest removing the standover height column. Your target audience is tall people and big frames. Standover is (almost)never an issue for those users. Even more importantly, the published numbers are rubbish. It depends where you measure it, which tires you have etc, etc..
    Last edited by Tjaard; 4 Weeks Ago at 12:37 PM.

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    Comments on your blog post

    Hi,

    Here are some comments on your blog post.

    You calculate "Pythag BB -> HT" and "Chill factor".

    Lee McCormack has also been using those measurements, and he uses the Chillfactor angle as a determinant of riding style (for mountain bikes), so a steeper angle is more DH oriented, a lower angle is more XC oriented..

    "For mountain biking, it would be incredible to have a way to calculate your downhill seated angle to tip-over and your uphill seated angle to tip-over,. "

    For descending, I think it is a bit easier than that, since you won't be sitting down on a (steep)descent. Most MTB technique suggests balancing weight over bottom bracket, so we can simply calculate front front/rear center ratios.
    Last edited by Tjaard; 4 Weeks Ago at 12:38 PM.

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    Can we please make this a sticky??

  26. #26
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    Great chart thanks.

    Confirms that I'm probably best off with a GG Smash for my next bike ( Long travel 29er )

    Edit: Might want to add the GG Pedalhead to your hardtail chart too. I have it its a great bike for tall humans. Guerrilla Gravity | Pedalhead | Info, Geometry, and Specs
    Guerrilla Gravity Pedalhead XL
    Guerrilla Gravity The Smash XL

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    WOW, great work! Thanks...

  28. #28
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    Spent some time messing with Tableau and created the best way to visualize this data to date.

    Check it out and let me know what you think.
    Bikes for the Very Tall - A list I maintain of the largest bikes in the industry. Includes mtb and road.

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    Quote Originally Posted by asollie View Post
    Spent some time messing with Tableau and created the best way to visualize this data to date.

    Check it out and let me know what you think.
    Again, WELL DONE! Confirms that my Camber was a good choice for me

  30. #30
    Ride Fast Take Chances :)
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    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tjaard View Post
    Hi,

    Here are some comments on your blog post.

    You calculate "Pythag BB -> HT" and "Chill factor".

    Lee McCormack has also been using those measurements
    Lee's using distance between BB and grips (not HT) though which makes a bit more sense to me since handle bar height is easily adjusted unlike reach.

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    Nice data visualization but I don't think this is the data for that style. I have to 'reverse' the data in my head for it to work as I am having to look 'backwards' at the same information - stack and reach 4 times in 4 different directions. In this case I would prefer to see the data either on 4 separate sheets or 4 different layers that I can switch on / off on the same set of axis.
    I only hope you understand that!

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    Need Scott Genius and Spark please.

  34. #34
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    What do the various sizes of the circles represent?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TooTallUK View Post
    Nice data visualization but I don't think this is the data for that style. I have to 'reverse' the data in my head for it to work as I am having to look 'backwards' at the same information - stack and reach 4 times in 4 different directions. In this case I would prefer to see the data either on 4 separate sheets or 4 different layers that I can switch on / off on the same set of axis.
    I only hope you understand that!
    Unfortunately, I'm not sure what you mean. With the Tableau chart you can add filters, maybe that will help you? Think of it as looking at a bike from the drive-side... higher up the chart means the bike is taller, farther right means it is longer.

    Quote Originally Posted by seat_boy View Post
    What do the various sizes of the circles represent?
    They represent the distance from the BB to the top of the head tube. Bigger circles mean bigger distances. Essentially the bigger the circle, the bigger the You can read more about that here: The Earth Remains - Journal - Bikes for the Very Tall
    Bikes for the Very Tall - A list I maintain of the largest bikes in the industry. Includes mtb and road.

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    Hello again everyone! I've made some new Tableau charts and compiled everything into a Tableau "story", which isn't the most elegant way to present info but at least it lets me provide one link that will take you to everything. Let me know what you think!
    Bikes for the Very Tall - A list I maintain of the largest bikes in the industry. Includes mtb and road.

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    Quote Originally Posted by asollie View Post
    Hello again everyone! I've made some new Tableau charts and compiled everything into a Tableau "story", which isn't the most elegant way to present info but at least it lets me provide one link that will take you to everything. Let me know what you think!
    I'm browsing through it and its fantastic. Thanks for the work!!!!!!!!!!!

    As a Tall gangly bugger, how exactly does stack effect things?

    I know reach effects how many times I smash my knees into the bars while standing. But what does stack do?

    and I know from trying a few bikes that slack seat angles Really suck.. ( looking at you Trek and Santa Cruz...among others )

    So the POLE is way the hell out there on reach, but its stack isn't that high?

    For what its worth i'm on a guerrilla gravity pedalhead XL and have a GG smash XL on order.

    I know there is some tall folks on here on SC XXL hightower LT's, but according to stack and reach.. its not really close to the POLE and GG bikes?

    I cannot try them all because.....no one ever has those where I live and I live in a prety MTB town. The shop here told me the Evil Wreck XL would fit me. I demo'd a Calling because its all they had in XL.. and it was by far one of the smallest bikes I have ever put feet to pedals on. My dad is 6'2" ish.. and he could probably fit on most XL's.. but that is a far cry from 6'6"-6'7" where I am.
    Guerrilla Gravity Pedalhead XL
    Guerrilla Gravity The Smash XL

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    Quote Originally Posted by KTMDirtFace View Post
    As a Tall gangly bugger, how exactly does stack effect things?
    Glad you like it! Stack is really important for some tall people and not as important for others. A ton of my height is in my legs so I my seatpost has to be really high up. This means I need (a) a steep seatpost angle, like you mentioned and (b) I need the stack to be pretty high so I'm not hunched way over the bike with my bars a foot below my saddle. Even with a really high stack height, my saddle is level with my bars with the dropper post fully dropped. That is where a lot of people have their saddle at its highest, so it makes it harder for me to get my weight properly back for steep descending.
    Bikes for the Very Tall - A list I maintain of the largest bikes in the industry. Includes mtb and road.

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    Love this list, thank you. Super helpful. I'm 6-4, lean novice bike purchaser and need all the help I can get.

    Fwiw I do think Transition has decently sized XL bikes with about 633 stack and about 500 reach...tho the top tube aren't massively long.

    As a side question, what are the standout do it all bikes in here for a Trail bike? The Hightower seems to hold a firm spot there but are their others that are clear favorites with a sweet balance of down/up performance?

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by asollie View Post
    Glad you like it! Stack is really important for some tall people and not as important for others. A ton of my height is in my legs so I my seatpost has to be really high up. This means I need (a) a steep seatpost angle, like you mentioned and (b) I need the stack to be pretty high so I'm not hunched way over the bike with my bars a foot below my saddle. Even with a really high stack height, my saddle is level with my bars with the dropper post fully dropped. That is where a lot of people have their saddle at its highest, so it makes it harder for me to get my weight properly back for steep descending.
    Thanks makes sense. I have very long legs and arms.

    I was on a Yeti SB66 XL until recently.. with like spanks highest rise bars. my seat is still WAY over the bars. I can't stand to ride my yeti now.

    Its not so bad on my GG Pedalhead XL. Some pics of two of my bikes.. and the demo Evil Calling XL.

    Stack and Reach Charts for pretty much all XL Bikes-fhsgdckh.jpg
    Stack and Reach Charts for pretty much all XL Bikes-zeqlv3lh.jpg
    Stack and Reach Charts for pretty much all XL Bikes-adfnfykh.jpg
    Guerrilla Gravity Pedalhead XL
    Guerrilla Gravity The Smash XL

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    Looking good. You're certainly helping explain a lot of data with your efforts.
    Once again, thank you for this work. It is invaluable for us taller folks and saves me my pages of hand-written notes and tables when bike-shopping.

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    The Evil and Yeti bikes make my teeth itch. Not nice.

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    Brilliant work Asollie, thanks again for putting this together👍🏻

    Would you mind adding the new SantaCruz Nomad when you can please?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peatbog78 View Post
    Brilliant work Asollie, thanks again for putting this together👍🏻

    Would you mind adding the new SantaCruz Nomad when you can please?
    Done! Or at least it has been added to the google sheet. Tableau and Google don't seem to be getting along this morning so it won't be in the Tableau charts till later.
    Bikes for the Very Tall - A list I maintain of the largest bikes in the industry. Includes mtb and road.

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    Awesome, I'll check back- thank you

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    As a tall guy with long legs I did the same research. Your work in Tableau is awesome!

    The Felt Surplus, Fuji Bighorn (2016-2017), Vassago OptimusTi, and Guerrilla Gravity Pedalhead are some more hardtails to add. The Surplus has a 681 mm stack height!

    I got my XXL Stumpjumper last year. First bike that fits me. I'm loving it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slyham View Post
    The Felt Surplus, Fuji Bighorn (2016-2017), Vassago OptimusTi, and Guerrilla Gravity Pedalhead are some more hardtails to add. The Surplus has a 681 mm stack height!
    Thanks! Added all those aside from the Fuji. I'm less interested in bikes that aren't being made anymore, but I'll get around to adding it sometime. Tableau is updated.
    Bikes for the Very Tall - A list I maintain of the largest bikes in the industry. Includes mtb and road.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by asollie View Post
    Thanks! Added all those aside from the Fuji. I'm less interested in bikes that aren't being made anymore, but I'll get around to adding it sometime. Tableau is updated.
    Thanks. The Bighorn is still being made, but the 2018 is following the longer and slacker trend and dropped the stack height a bunch.

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    I can't believe I hadn't reply to this thread yet, and thanks Alexander (asollie) for making this doc and mentioning the DirtySixer in it.
    Better than words, a picture of 6'10" Alex (another one!) between his XXL 29er Karate Monkey and one of our first proto DirtySixer 36er size 3XL (edited with new 2018 sizing).
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Stack and Reach Charts for pretty much all XL Bikes-12186701_505012066328187_7667714655166719374_o.jpg  

    Last edited by davidfrench; 03-15-2018 at 11:56 AM.
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    Love the info in this thread. I havent biked in years and am 6'9" with 38+ inseam and long arms. Does anyone have any feelings about the Cannondale Trail 2 in XXL. Found a pretty good deal on one and fits me pretty well, but like i said just getting back into biking.
    thanks

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by TOOtallG View Post
    Love the info in this thread. I havent biked in years and am 6'9" with 38+ inseam and long arms. Does anyone have any feelings about the Cannondale Trail 2 in XXL. Found a pretty good deal on one and fits me pretty well, but like i said just getting back into biking.
    thanks
    In that price range you should also consider the Felt Surplus and Kona Honzo. Those are a little more upright and a little longer respectively, but will feel like they're a similar size. I added the Cannondale Trail to the spreadsheet so you can look at the three of those together.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1088505646
    Bikes for the Very Tall - A list I maintain of the largest bikes in the industry. Includes mtb and road.

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    ok i will check those out. thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOOtallG View Post
    Love the info in this thread. I havent biked in years and am 6'9" with 38+ inseam and long arms. Does anyone have any feelings about the Cannondale Trail 2 in XXL. Found a pretty good deal on one and fits me pretty well, but like i said just getting back into biking.
    thanks
    I've never ridden on one, but the specs look pretty good. There are not many bikes that have an XXL size especially one in the shop you can try. If it fits and you found a good deal then I think it would be a good bike to get back into mountain biking IMHO.

  54. #54
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    thanks. yea the shop is going to let me demo it too and cut the price 200$ so ill see how i feel just to be sure

  55. #55
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    204cm /or 6'7" here, 38" inseam (probably)

    I must say I think manufacturers have been shrinking the geometries over the years (and it should be other way around, because people are getting taller, not smaller.. )

    What I have learned over the years is that geometry on the paper is VASTLY different when you actually sit on the bike for real. Some bikes that had large numbers for TT/REACH/STACH felt small in real world and vice versa obviously.

    ------

    Havent owned much bikes but from what I have:

    3-4 years ago I had Speciliazed Hardrock 29 size 23", one of these I think: https://www.specialized.com/us/en/ha...or=79776-35007

    and the overall feel I had on the bike (top tube length and reach were perfect for me).

    Than something happened to the frame (dont ask) and I was warrantied with RockHopper 29 in same size (because they were out of Hardrock frames)

    https://www.specialized.com/us/en/ro...er-29/p/115566

    and this bike, although similar in geometry on paper, was WAY too short in top tube for me and I hated it!!

    I just cant describe this, how can just little bit different seat and head tube angle change everything!

    Obviously I played with seat seatback and different stems as always, but this didnt helped at all.

    The worst thing is that Specialized doesnt do such large geometry today in HT bike.

    There was a Crave model from Specialized (that was similarly long but lasted only a year or two and didnt appear since for sale):

    https://static.evanscycles.com/produ...866-7500-1.jpg

    ----------

    For FS bikes, I owned Kona Colair (2012 I think) that was huge and perfect for me but I wasnt so much into hard off-roading back than (not even today) so I sold it after 2 years.

    https://ep1.pinkbike.org/p5pb6935079/p5pb6935079.jpg

    One FS bike that is very large and still on offer is Specialized Camber of Stumpjumper 29 in size XXL. I tried to ride Camber once and it was huge, it would be perfect for me, but I am not looking for FS bike.


    ---------

    I recently bought Marin Four Corners XL and I must say that despite the numbers, bike doesnt feel that big to me. In fact I feel that is somehow too short for me. Not sure what is my problem but many bikes simply feel to short when I first try them and this tells me immediately am I going to like the bike or not. (if I only didint have to buy them to find out in the first place )

    https://www.marinbikes.com/gb/bikes/four-corners-blue




    I also owned Diverge DSW 2017 64, again reasonably large but I still feel it lacked little bit in top tube. (maybe I forgot to sit on the bikes over the years )

    https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bi...ite-dsw/119017

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by toni31 View Post
    204cm /or 6'7" here, 38" inseam (probably)

    I must say I think manufacturers have been shrinking the geometries over the years (and it should be other way around, because people are getting taller, not smaller.. )

    What I have learned over the years is that geometry on the paper is VASTLY different when you actually sit on the bike for real. Some bikes that had large numbers for TT/REACH/STACH felt small in real world and vice versa obviously.

    ------

    Havent owned much bikes but from what I have:

    3-4 years ago I had Speciliazed Hardrock 29 size 23", one of these I think: https://www.specialized.com/us/en/ha...or=79776-35007

    and the overall feel I had on the bike (top tube length and reach were perfect for me).

    Than something happened to the frame (dont ask) and I was warrantied with RockHopper 29 in same size (because they were out of Hardrock frames)

    https://www.specialized.com/us/en/ro...er-29/p/115566

    and this bike, although similar in geometry on paper, was WAY too short in top tube for me and I hated it!!

    I just cant describe this, how can just little bit different seat and head tube angle change everything!

    Obviously I played with seat seatback and different stems as always, but this didnt helped at all.

    The worst thing is that Specialized doesnt do such large geometry today in HT bike.

    There was a Crave model from Specialized (that was similarly long but lasted only a year or two and didnt appear since for sale):

    https://static.evanscycles.com/produ...866-7500-1.jpg

    ----------

    For FS bikes, I owned Kona Colair (2012 I think) that was huge and perfect for me but I wasnt so much into hard off-roading back than (not even today) so I sold it after 2 years.

    https://ep1.pinkbike.org/p5pb6935079/p5pb6935079.jpg

    One FS bike that is very large and still on offer is Specialized Camber of Stumpjumper 29 in size XXL. I tried to ride Camber once and it was huge, it would be perfect for me, but I am not looking for FS bike.


    ---------

    I recently bought Marin Four Corners XL and I must say that despite the numbers, bike doesnt feel that big to me. In fact I feel that is somehow too short for me. Not sure what is my problem but many bikes simply feel to short when I first try them and this tells me immediately am I going to like the bike or not. (if I only didint have to buy them to find out in the first place )

    https://www.marinbikes.com/gb/bikes/four-corners-blue




    I also owned Diverge DSW 2017 64, again reasonably large but I still feel it lacked little bit in top tube. (maybe I forgot to sit on the bikes over the years )

    https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bi...ite-dsw/119017
    I currently ride an XXL Stumpjumper and love it. First bike that really fits. I plan on building up a Kona Honzo as a single speed and bikepacking hardtail.

    Have you looked at the Honzo or Big Honzo?

  57. #57
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    No, havent tried, but its not really my type of bike: fattie tires, single ring in front... and I imagine its expensive. I dont really need and want expensive bikes.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by KTMDirtFace View Post
    I'm browsing through it and its fantastic. Thanks for the work!!!!!!!!!!!

    As a Tall gangly bugger, how exactly does stack effect things?

    I know reach effects how many times I smash my knees into the bars while standing. But what does stack do?
    Stack is simply the height of the front of the bike frame. As you raise the saddle, you need to raise the grips too. But the ratio is NOT 1:1. It depends on body proportions , flexibility, riding style etc.

    You can raise the position of the grips by using more spacers underneath the stem and using a high rise handle bar, but there is a practical limit there. For many tall riders a bike with a low stack simply won't let them put the grips where they need them.

    Point two is that, even if you CAN raise the position of the grips (by the above methods), it will bring them closer, shortening the effective reach. this is because a MTB fork is at a fairly slack angle.

    The relationship is about 0.4:1, so for every cm of lower frame stack, you will reduce the effective reach by 4 mm when you set your grips at the same height.

    The easier way to look at this is combining them both into one BB-HT distance as Alex has done in his chart.

    So, looking for bikes that have a big number for that diagonal is a good start.
    Last edited by Tjaard; 4 Weeks Ago at 02:20 PM.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by svinyard View Post
    ... has decently sized .. bikes with about 633 stack and about 500 reach...though the top tubes aren't massively long.
    If a bike has fairly long reach but a short effective toptube, that means the seat angle is steep.

    That is great for us tall folks, since the slack (actual) seat tube angles on many full suspension bikes means that a tall seat height ends up as a slacker effective seat tube angle than a low seat height.

    This is even worse, since most bikes have the same length chainstays in every size, so our weight is already more rear biased then short folks weight.

  60. #60
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    And definitely missing the Nicolai (or Mojo) bikes.

    G13 XXL: 550mm reach, 658mm stack, for a BB-HT of 857mm it's far and away the biggest bike in your chart. Similar numbers for their other bikes.

    Even better, long chain stays and steep seat angles mean they are well suited to tall riders.

    And not quite so extreme, but still interesting: Bird Aeris.

    Aeris AM 9, Xl: 520 mm reach, 632 mm stack.
    Last edited by Tjaard; 4 Weeks Ago at 07:42 AM.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tjaard View Post
    You can raise the grips by using more spacers underneath the stem and using a high rise handle bar, but there is a practical limit there. For many tall riders a bike with a low stack simply won't let them put the grips where they need them.
    I'd also like to remind people that the mfg's listed stack height is all you get with the stock fork. The listed stack height is with the max amount of spacers under the stem the stock fork with hold. Don't buy a bike thinking "well I'll just raise the stack by adding spacers under the stem".

  62. #62
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    My new job blocks Google Docs (A move designed specifically to drive me crazy. Who blocks Google Docs but not facebook??), so I'm having more trouble keeping the spreadsheet up to date.

    Would any of you regulars want to gain edit permissions to the the spreadsheet? Off the top of my head there are the new Stumpjumpers, the new Surly, and a new Yeti that need to be added. You wouldn't be responsible for maintaining it going forward, just sharing the work and adding any bikes you see fit.

    EDIT: Found two guys who are going to help me out!
    Last edited by asollie; 4 Weeks Ago at 08:07 AM.
    Bikes for the Very Tall - A list I maintain of the largest bikes in the industry. Includes mtb and road.

  63. #63
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    The stack height should be based on the frame, not the fork. Of course, the fork comes cut, so you can't add extra height without buying a new, uncut fork. But that uncut fork won't change the stack, it will just mean you can get the bars higher.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy3220 View Post
    I'd also like to remind people that the mfg's listed stack height is all you get with the stock fork. The listed stack height is with the max amount of spacers under the stem the stock fork with hold. Don't buy a bike thinking "well I'll just raise the stack by adding spacers under the stem".

  64. #64
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    Posting a quick illustration using a picture of a 29er custom frame (custom fabricated for a 7'1" rider) I found online and the DirtySixer 36er. Even if there's no measurements on the illustration, that will help understand more how big wheels works well for tall guys like us. In yellow, this is our DirtySixer AllRoad size 4XL, there is a 5XL available to.
    Stack and Reach Charts for pretty much all XL Bikes-dirtysixer36ervs29erillustration.jpg
    Last edited by davidfrench; 4 Weeks Ago at 01:12 PM.
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  65. #65
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    Added a few more big full suspension bikes.

    it's really interesting to see how big bikes really are, compared to others, rather than just the name of the size (ie so many XL's are bigger than other XXL's)

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy3220 View Post
    I'd also like to remind people that the mfg's listed stack height is all you get with the stock fork. The listed stack height is with the max amount of spacers under the stem the stock fork with hold. Don't buy a bike thinking "well I'll just raise the stack by adding spacers under the stem".
    That is incorrect. By definition "Stack" refers to the height at the top of the headset, so below any spacers.

    You are correct that it's based on the stock fork: If you install a taller or shorter fork, it will raise or lower the stack (and shorten or lengthen the reach a bit too)

  67. #67
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    Ibis Ripmo XL has a 493mm reach. should be on the chart.
    https://www.ibiscycles.com/bikes/ripmo/
    edit NM it already there.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    Ibis Ripmo XL has a 493mm reach. should be on the chart.
    https://www.ibiscycles.com/bikes/ripmo/
    edit NM it already there.

    809mm on the BB-HT is good but not great. I'd say the true "tall person bikes" need have a reach well over 500mm.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by toni31 View Post
    204cm /or 6'7" here, 38" inseam (probably)
    What I have learned over the years is that geometry on the paper is VASTLY different when you actually sit on the bike for real. Some bikes that had large numbers for TT/REACH/STACH felt small in real world and vice versa obviously.

    There can be a few reasons for that:

    1: the printed charts are often wrong.

    2: It's important to keep in mind what stack and reach actually mean: the length and height of the FRAME.

    So, they are great to compare bikes, assuming you are willing to adjust the rest of the set-up to match.

    If you are riding a demo bike, with stock saddle, bars and stem, and without adjusting the positions of those parts, then of course they will feel different! For example if you have a 30mm riser bar, you can easily move the grips 20mm forward or back by rolling the bar in the stem, that's equiavalent to an entire size change in many bikes!

    3: Also remember that stack and reach are interdependent, so yes, a bike with low stack, will be shorter than a taller bike with a longer listed reach, once you set the bars at the same height.

    if you setup two bikes with the same saddle, set the same position relative to the BB, and the same for the grips, they will fit the same.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tjaard View Post
    809mm on the BB-HT is good but not great. I'd say the true "tall person bikes" need have a reach well over 500mm.
    I definitely have my eye on it. I think it has a pretty steep seat tube angle, which means that if your seatpost is way up you won't be hanging off the back of the bike.
    Bikes for the Very Tall - A list I maintain of the largest bikes in the industry. Includes mtb and road.

  71. #71
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    Nicolaiís XXL sizesseem to remain far and away the longest and biggest full-suspension bikes out there.

    Any others that are not on the chart yet?

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