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  1. #1
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    New guy here, building a hardtail 29er

    Hello,
    Let me say I'm glad I found this forum. I've read a few posts and there's some really good info here. I've only been mountain biking for a little over 2 years, but I love it. I'm 6'2" 225 lbs. and will be turning 50 in a couple months. I bought a used Gary Fisher Sugar 2+ and ride it quite a bit. Anyways, in 2013 I bought some Sun Ringle Chargers for my bike and within approx. 3 months I broke the pawls in the rear hub, Sun Ringle warrantied it, no problem. The new rear hub lasted about another 3 months before I broke the pawls in that one too. Again, Sun Ringle warrantied it no problem.

    So long story shot, I'm building a new bike so that when one bike goes down, I have a back up. The new bike is a Banshee Paradox 29er, and I'm looking at the Mavic 819 with Chris King hubs. Does anyone have any experience with the Mavic 819? I do a decent amount of climbing, with some cross country mixed in and the occasional rock garden as well, so I'm looking for a strong wheel set. Also, 32 vs 36 spoke, your opinions are appreciated.

    One last thing, I noticed a post about the Sun MTX33 which sounds great, but I prefer to run tubeless and from what I've read, they don't take well to tubeless tires.
    Last edited by 61belair; 01-29-2014 at 10:07 AM.

  2. #2
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    Why not Stans Flow rims? I'm heavier than you and have some Flows on King hub wheels and they have been great. The weight difference between 32 and 36 is small so do it if you want to!

  3. #3
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    Thanks for the input, its very much appreciated. I've been reading everything I can find and it seems 32 hole should be sufficient. Its just a matter of what wheel to use. I will look at the Stans Flow as well. I think there's another thread here somewhere on the Mavic EN821 so I want to do a little more research before pulling the trigger on this purchase.

    Also, I will probably be running a 2.3" tire up front and a 2.2" tire in the rear. So any input on rim width would be appreciated.

  4. #4
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    I like the Flow. I weigh anywhere from 255 to 275 and haven't hurt em.
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  5. #5
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    After looking at Stans website, two wheels stand out. The Arch and the Flow. The Mavic website is really lacking, so I'm leaning towards Stans now. The guys at the LBS are great, but they're all little guys, so it's really helpful to talk to the peeps in here who are actually running these wheels and know first hand if the stuff stands up to the abuse of us bigger folk.

  6. #6
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    At 250 pounds with some hard riding...personally I'd rather err on the side of caution and spend a little extra and take the slight weight penalty and go with 36h rims. But that's just me.

  7. #7
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    WTB Frequency i23 rims have been bomber (they make a wider 25mm internal width now too) that set up tubeless with TR tires great. The meet the actual UST tubeless standard so you know tubeless ready tires will work. The Stans EX series do not meet any set standard and use a larger internal diameter to get tires to inflate easily. This means tires often fit very tightly and require tools to install. I can hand install and remove tubeless ready tires yet inflate them with a floor pump on the TCS rims. I've owned Chargers and Stans Flows and the WTB's are better.

    Rims | WTB

    PS-Go with the stainless steel drive shell on the Kings for ultimate durability.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by 61belair View Post
    Thanks for the input, its very much appreciated. I've been reading everything I can find and it seems 32 hole should be sufficient. Its just a matter of what wheel to use. I will look at the Stans Flow as well. I think there's another thread here somewhere on the Mavic EN821 so I want to do a little more research before pulling the trigger on this purchase.

    Also, I will probably be running a 2.3" tire up front and a 2.2" tire in the rear. So any input on rim width would be appreciated.
    Flows with 36H would be the way to go. Heck, I'm 185 and that's what I would go with at my weight for what you describe.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bike Whisperer View Post
    The Stans EX series do not meet any set standard and use a larger internal diameter to get tires to inflate easily. This means tires often fit very tightly and require tools to install. I can hand install and remove tubeless ready tires yet inflate them with a floor pump on the TCS rims. I've owned Chargers and Stans Flows and the WTB's are better.
    I have a set of Stan's Flows and Flows EX both 29er and I have never had a hard time installing tires on them. It's actually been really easy and I've run Schwable, Specialized and Maxxis. It's always been super easy. I will say that I often do need to use my air compressor to seat them, but that's not unusual for a tubeless setup. I have Mavic 823's on my 26" bike and those are hands down the hardest rims to get tires on that I've ever had. I get blisters on my hands every time I put tires on the Mavics. As for the durability of the Flows, I'm 320 and been using them for almost 3 years with no broken spokes or bent rims. I recommend them.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    At 250 pounds with some hard riding...personally I'd rather err on the side of caution and spend a little extra and take the slight weight penalty and go with 36h rims. But that's just me.
    I don't mind the extra weight if it means less trouble down the road. I had 4+ months of downtime in 2013 because of various issues with my bike. Replacement wheels, then, two broken hubs on those replacement wheels, replacement shock, a broken swing arm, broken spokes, replaced bottom bracket... I did close to 900 miles in 2013 and 140,000+ feet of climbing and it would have been a lot more if not for the downtime, so a second bike is a must if I want to stay on my bike year round.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bike Whisperer View Post
    WTB Frequency i23 rims have been bomber (they make a wider 25mm internal width now too) that set up tubeless with TR tires great. The meet the actual UST tubeless standard so you know tubeless ready tires will work. The Stans EX series do not meet any set standard and use a larger internal diameter to get tires to inflate easily. This means tires often fit very tightly and require tools to install. I can hand install and remove tubeless ready tires yet inflate them with a floor pump on the TCS rims. I've owned Chargers and Stans Flows and the WTB's are better.

    Rims | WTB

    PS-Go with the stainless steel drive shell on the Kings for ultimate durability.
    I will definitely be going with the stainless steel drive shell, and will take a look at the WTB's today.

  12. #12
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    I'd build with a 36 on the rear at least. I'm about 214 but don't seem to have a problem with front wheels (3x) using any type of spoke or brake system (discs do place more load on spokes than rims so I wouldn't advise radial lacing). The spokes I've broken are usually on the drive side rear and anodized. I usually rebuild with DT or Wheelsmith 14/15/14's in natural Stainless. My brother the uber-machinist suggests that the process of "pickling and heating" used in anodization creates a more brittle spoke. I don't worry about using straight gauge 14s because I never break a spoke in the middle.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by masonmoa View Post
    I have a set of Stan's Flows and Flows EX both 29er and I have never had a hard time installing tires on them. It's actually been really easy and I've run Schwable, Specialized and Maxxis. It's always been super easy. I will say that I often do need to use my air compressor to seat them, but that's not unusual for a tubeless setup. I have Mavic 823's on my 26" bike and those are hands down the hardest rims to get tires on that I've ever had. I get blisters on my hands every time I put tires on the Mavics. As for the durability of the Flows, I'm 320 and been using them for almost 3 years with no broken spokes or bent rims. I recommend them.
    I definitely like the specs on the Flows and they seem to have a good following here in this group. That says a lot.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forster View Post
    I'd build with a 36 on the rear at least. I'm about 214 but don't seem to have a problem with front wheels (3x) using any type of spoke or brake system (discs do place more load on spokes than rims so I wouldn't advise radial lacing). The spokes I've broken are usually on the drive side rear and anodized. I usually rebuild with DT or Wheelsmith 14/15/14's in natural Stainless. My brother the uber-machinist suggests that the process of "pickling and heating" used in anodization creates a more brittle spoke. I don't worry about using straight gauge 14s because I never break a spoke in the middle.
    My initial thoughts were a 36 in the rear and 32 in front. The LBS has the 32 hole Chris King hub in stock. They would have to order a 36 hole, which, shouldn't be a problem.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by masonmoa View Post
    I have a set of Stan's Flows and Flows EX both 29er and I have never had a hard time installing tires on them. It's actually been really easy and I've run Schwable, Specialized and Maxxis. It's always been super easy. I will say that I often do need to use my air compressor to seat them, but that's not unusual for a tubeless setup. I have Mavic 823's on my 26" bike and those are hands down the hardest rims to get tires on that I've ever had. I get blisters on my hands every time I put tires on the Mavics. As for the durability of the Flows, I'm 320 and been using them for almost 3 years with no broken spokes or bent rims. I recommend them.
    At first I was leaning towards the Mavics, but now I'm looking seriously at the Flows. I do like what I've read about the Frequency i23 as well.

  16. #16
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    My choice is the MTx33 36h laced to Chris King hubs or Hope hubs. Either one will give you a bombproof wheel for sure. I'd say the Flows would too but I don't have personal experience with them but I do both the other two I suggested and at as much as 320 pounds. Not as much as an untrue spoke and that's not riding easy either. The key is having someone build the wheels that knows what they are doing. I've used Mike Curriak (MikeSee) and a semi-local guy that has a lot of experience building wheels for clydes. Both are fantastic.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    My choice is the MTx33 36h laced to Chris King hubs or Hope hubs. Either one will give you a bombproof wheel for sure. I'd say the Flows would too but I don't have personal experience with them but I do both the other two I suggested and at as much as 320 pounds. Not as much as an untrue spoke and that's not riding easy either. The key is having someone build the wheels that knows what they are doing. I've used Mike Curriak (MikeSee) and a semi-local guy that has a lot of experience building wheels for clydes. Both are fantastic.
    I prefer to run tubeless, are the Mtx33's tubeless compatible?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by masonmoa View Post
    I will say that I often do need to use my air compressor to seat them, but that's not unusual for a tubeless setup.
    Compressors are often neccessary when running non-tubeless tires tubeless. I have never needed a compressor to install tubeless tires on tubeless rims (going back to Mavic UST 26" rims in the early 00's).

    The Stans rims are good quality, no argument there. But they are designed to run standard tires and convert them to tubeless. This is and always will be a YMMV situation.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 61belair View Post
    I prefer to run tubeless, are the Mtx33's tubeless compatible?
    Honestly don't know. I think some run them that way but they are difficult to setup. I use tubes...no desire to run tubeless. No advantage in my riding going tubeless.

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