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I just pancaked another wheel, need advice...

6K views 50 replies 16 participants last post by  H3LlIoN 
#1 ·
Alright...firstly, I'm looking for advice from urban, park or downhill riders. While all advice is appreciated, if you ride XC and trails, your experience probably doesn't apply. No offense meant, just please specify what style of riding you do so I can weigh your experiences in context.

Here we go! First ride of the year (unfortunately)...it was 65 today and I had wrassled my bike out of the shed last weekend, so I figured I'd finally get to clocking some miles. I ride a lot of urban...staircases and what not, and we also have a pretty sick woods park here. Anyway, I'm back on the bike to lose some more weight (last year was slow for me on the bike, and I put some weight back on.) Anyway, last year it was an Alex wheelset....met it's match when I dropped a staircase. My LBS hooked me up with what's labeled #MACH 1 XC-TYPE 2.10, and I was riding....flew down a hill and messed my timing up on a bunny hop...curbed the hell out of it, and it's got a REALLY nice flat spot. Normally I'd cruise over to my LBS.....but they closed last week :( and I don't like either of the other two shops. It will be this weekend before I can get to another shop I like (20 miles away.) I was wondering if anyone here abuses the hell out of their equipment and, if so, what holds up? I don't care about the weight....I'm already 250, so another 5 pounds isn't even going to matter. I just don't want to have to keep blowing money on wheels.

Thanks!
 
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#27 ·
Jeffj,

Have you verified that you can actually get mtb length spokes from Danscomp.com? You know that's a BMX shop, right? That's an incredible price for spokes, but if it's only BMX length spokes then....

Also, 729 rims weigh 675 grams, and DoubleTracks weigh 850 grams! I don't mean to come across as a weight weenie (I have suffered from grammitis, please be merciful to me), but I'm not even sure Josh Bender could bend a DoubleTrack?

H3Lllon, sorry, I don't know anything about the Five-o. You mentioned that dirtjumpers were too small for you? I don't know your height, but I'm 5'11", and my Giant STP is big enough for me and could probably fit someone up to 6'1". The biggest issue is the seattube is low, so getting enough seatpost extension is the problem. With my 400mm seatpost at max extension it's just adequate. For urban riding I run it a good 3 - 4" lower than that, though. However, if you do urban, dirtjumper frames are very hard to beat. My STP is supposed to be pretty unbreakable. Also, the geometry will hands-down whip anything with normal length chainstays (16.7" and longer). It's solid, it's nimble and maneuverable, and it's not twitchy. Want to buy the frame?!!!
 
#29 ·
Tim Blabbing said:
Jeffj,

Have you verified that you can actually get mtb length spokes from Danscomp.com? You know that's a BMX shop, right? That's an incredible price for spokes, but if it's only BMX length spokes then....
I have bought spokes from danscomp for a 26" wheelset I built for a friend last June and just a week or so ago, I directed a friend there for spokes for a 29" wheel I then rebuilt for him. Just that you'll need to get the nipples eleswhere if you want 12mm nips. He had to order them over the phone, but it was no problem.
 
#31 ·
Tim Blabbing said:
Wow! Great news about those spokes. Those really are impressive prices.

Jeffj, the Sapim spokes supposedly come with nipples; are they just not 12mm nipples?
They did when I purchased spokes back in June 2010. When I had a friend order from them a couple weeks ago, I told him about the nipple dilemma (is there such a thing? ;) he asked when he called and they still only carried 14mm and 16mm nipples, so he told them not to worry about sending nipples. I am not positive they were going to include them for free as they did when I ordered from them previously.
 
#32 ·
Maybe it's just the geometry I don't like on the urban bikes...The ones I've been on have all seemed squirly to me. Seat height isn't an issue, I slam the seat on mine anyway, almost always riding with it all the way down unless I'm on a long road ride (30+ miles). In the woods, it's always slammed.
 
#35 ·
Just looked up the 2011 Kona Five-O. That headset is a Zero-Stack type. You cannot swap it out for a traditional headset. The thing is, most headsets worth having and keeping start around $40, anyways (there are a few exceptions, like FSA's Pig, which really is heavy), and the cheapest, most available Zero-Stack headset you'll find on the main mail-order sites is the Cane Creek ZS-3, which goes for $40. Zero-Stack has not been popular, but there's always been frames with them and headsets for them. They are more popular in Europe. You can find quite a few Zero-Stack headsets on Chainreactioncycles.com.

Concerning the rims, you are practically correct. Because disc rims don't need to deal with rim pads squeezing the sidewalls in, they can redistribute the material to make it stronger, elsewhere. There are "disc-specific" rims, but for the most part any rim can be used on a bike with disc brakes. For you, any rim sturdy enough is what you need.
 
#38 ·
Zero stack is not the same as 'integrated', it is referred to as 'semi-integrated' and they are different from each other. My Giant Reign (as well as many other Giant bikes) has a semi-integrated headset as does my current Access 29er frame.

The cheapest zero stack (semi-integrated) headset I know of is this one:

cane creek vp a41ac

https://cgi.ebay.com/VP-Cane-Creek-...037?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33657382cd

They go for about $10+/- plus shipping.

I have read a lot of complaints about these, but I have been beating the crap out of mine several times a week for a year and a half. If you can spare a few more bucks (about $40), go for the Cane Creek ZS-3.

As for durability, my son has been beating on his Reign for almost five years with no headset issues. . . . .



Or, Woodman makes this one for about $32:

https://bike.com/woodman-axis-sicr-comp-headset-headsets
 
#39 ·
SunRingle MTX 33! I am 250. My bike (with said rims) is another 38 and I ride with a pack of goodies. I ride, DH, AM, XC and rails to trails. I had them made for me last year mid-season and you cant kill them! The are really nice for the coin. I am thinking I will never have to replace one so there is my $0.02 for you and your quest.
 
#40 ·
Just bought the double track. It's heavy, but it had a ton of great reviews, and it's welded, as opposed to the 33 which is sleeved. I figure I'll ride it on the rear until I lose some of this damn weight, then switch to something lighter, and keep the doubetrack as backup. I need to order spokes, but I have to do some reading first, because I have no idea what I'm going. Plan is to string it to the cannondale delta hub that the mach1 is currently wrapped around, unless there is something terribly wrong with that. The other choice is the joytech aluminum from the Alex, but I'm guessing the cannondale is better. Is there any reason I would want to replace the hub?

Also, since I'm going to be building this thing anyway, I wanna replace my rear gears since 4 out of 8 are stripped. Do I want a cassette though, or a freewheel? Also, does anyone have a suggestion for a durable set? I spend a lot of time off the seat, and I like to use my legs as opposed to my gears, so I chew the teeth off of the gears pretty quickly. Thanks dudes.
 
#41 ·
You want a freehub (used with a cassette), not a freewheel.

I have issues with some cassettes (ruined three XT cassettes) and prefer some cheaper cassettes that have proven more durable for me. My cassette of choice is the Shimano CS-M580. If I wanted/needed a cassette with an aluminum spider (for use on rear hubs that use an aluminum freehub body), I use a SRAM PG-990, which have been using for the past year with success.

As for the hub, I am always a concerned about rear hubs for clydes and since you even have cassette issues, I have to wonder if your freehub is not long for this world. The downside is that hubs that are known to have at least pretty good durability for clydes are pricey and pricier.

mtnbiker 72 found some Transition rear hubs on sale for $40 (regularly $99) and says they have been reported to have decent durability. There are two different models on sale, but both are 36h, not 32h, so that depends on whether or not your Double Tracks are also 36h.

Another rear hub I have heard good things about is the Shimano Saint. The M810 is available in 32h or 36h, 10mm axle or 12mm axle (yours likely would use the 110mm axle) and will work with a standard rear derailleur (unlike some earlier Saint rear bubs). They are made for centerlock rotors, so you would need to use centerlock rotors or use an adapter. I saw an FH-M810 in the 10mm axle 32h configuration on ebay for $65.

For more popular choices for durable rear hubs, the most budget friendly one that comes to mind is the Hope Pro II that can be found for less than $200 and then maybe the DT-Swiss 350 (the cheapest DT Swiss hub with the start ratchet freehub) that can be found for less than $250. Those both come standard with aluminum freehub bodies, but I know the Hope Pro II can be had with a stainless steel freehub body and it will cost another $75 or so for that option.

There you go, clear as mud, simple as pie ;~)
 
#43 · (Edited)
For more popular choices for durable rear hubs, the most budget friendly one that comes to mind is the Hope Pro II that can be found for less than $200 and then maybe the DT-Swiss 350 (the cheapest DT Swiss hub with the start ratchet freehub) that can be found for less than $250. Those both come standard with aluminum freehub bodies, but I know the Hope Pro II can be had with a stainless steel freehub body and it will cost another $75 or so for that option.
I would vouch for the Hope Pro II option with the stainless steel free-hub.

BUT I would also suggest you get the Saint compatible version of the Hope Pro II which is essentially a 10mm hollow axled 135 width hub. Use this with any 10 mm solid steel bolt on through-axle. Avoid quick release. The solid steel axle keeps everything tight and prevents Hope's aluminum hub axle from flexing under stress. It also removes the need for double rows of bearings that you see in some hubs which are essentially there to compensate for excessive axle flexing in the first place. The weight penalty is less than 100g. The bolt through axle I use is the Fire Eye rear 10mm. Info from :

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=39200

or any other 10mm bolt through axle.

With regards rims - I would also go with 36 spokes if possible and you should be looking at 700g + rims : for example

http://www.alexrims.com/product_detail.asp?btn=3&cat=3&id=191

or Halo SAS :

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=12317

ride safe...

P.S. the double track rims are also very good

P.P.S. I f you want to stay with a hardtail the strongest jump/ freeride bike I know is the Chromag Stylus :

http://www.chromagbikes.com/frames/stylus
 
#44 · (Edited)
Alright. I guess it got missed. I already ordered a wheel...it's the 854g Doubletrack in a 32h welded design. I'll be using the cannondale delta hub that I already have, since it works fine and holds up great to my abuse. I just need to know what I'm looking for if I need to replace the cassette. I've never done it. Thanks.
 
#45 · (Edited)
Nothing wrong with the Doubletrack rim.

I'm unfamiliar with "Cannondale Delta" hubs - to be honest, I didn't even know that Cannondale made hubs.

It might be made by somebody else...

Either way it appears you are looking for an 8 speed cassette - for 8 speed gearing. Unfortunately, since 9 speed systems are now the most common the only 8 speed cassettes left on the market are low priced, mid to entry level models. I have no idea which is the strongest amongst them. The one you mention would work.

Best of luck
 
#47 ·
According to UPS, wheel will be here Friday. I've already talked to the LBS and have an appt for wheel truing after I build it. (I don't have a stand yet) They are cool enough to let me watch too though, so I can see how to do it. Can't wait to be back on the spec'd....this single speed crap is kicking my ass, and the $100 beach cruiser isn't fairing too well.
 
#49 ·
Im 6'8 285 and ride aggressive i was constantly bending rims so I picked up a set of Mavic DeeTracks and I love them been on them for over a year now and havent even needed to get them trued. I highly recommend them!
 
#51 ·
We'll see. Right now I'm going through the trials and tribulations of trying to figure out how to build a wheel. I have the general process down, but I can't find measurements on the cannondale delta hub, so I have to measure the thing myself.
 
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