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  1. #1
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    DT440's on 5.1D's vs Hope 2's on 719 or 721's

    I'm a borderline Clydesdale and would very much appreciate any advice re my new wheel purchase. I'm hoping that it is possible to buy a wheelset that can take some Clydesdale abuse beyond general XC mode?

    I ride XC most days and am currently on some very old deore 525 hubs with mavic 717 rims that came standard with my bike. Both front and rear are in the twighlight of their lives Now I'm getting more confident and more aggressive in my riding I want to replace them with some stronger and more durable wheels.

    Here's what I'm looking at as replacements:

    • Factory built DT Swiss 440's on 5.1D's
    • Bike shop built Hope 2's on Mavic 719 or 721 rims


    I'm thinking that the DT440/5.1D combo might be a bit OTT for general riding and a bit heavy. And, that I'd hate it if I chose the Hope/Mavic combo and they weren't up to a bit of energetically taken bumpy stuff with my weight. Both wheelsets are about the same price for me after discounts etc.

    Quality wise, is there much difference between the DT Swiss 440 and the Hope Pro 2? One thing I'd heard is that the Hope Pro 2 has an alloy freehub which might not be good for a Clydesdale role?

    Any opinions are most welcome

  2. #2
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    Kind of a win win situation. DT mid-high end hubs are higher quality than the Hope. Weight and strength the DT falls right in the middle. I would avoid the 719 rim if you are really thinking of stepping it up. The wider profile of the DT or 721 rim will not only be stronger, but will also help in running bigger and more aggressive tires. I haven't answered your question. I am kind of wavering because I prefer Mavic rims laced to DT hubs Of course that isn't an option and it would raise the cost.

    If I had to choose right now between the given choices I would go with the DT wheelset since the hubs are going to be in it for the long haul
    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine
    that's the stupidest idea this side of pinkbike.

  3. #3
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    AL29er many thanks for your answer, I appreciate your input

    Looks like a vote for the DT's on 5.1s

  4. #4
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    Switch it up from the options you listed.

    5.1Ds w/ Hope Pro IIs. Bulletproof and solid value. Lots of folks around here rolling on that combination for heavy riders on tough bikes. I personally ride these on my RFX and they have been great thus far (I weight in around 235 w/ gear and had a tendancy to kill Shimano freehubs about every 1-2 months on an XC bike).

    Plus the Hope freehub is loud enough that you'll never need a bell to pass, just freewheel for a second and people know you're behind them coasting
    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    in fact for trail type bikes I am tired of QR roady shite in general. Lets move on.

  5. #5
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    2nd for the 5.1 with hope Pro 2's. I'm about 235 with gear and ride all sorts of Rocky technical. Straight as an arrow still.

    I got mine built by Chad at Red Barn Bikes and they have been really solid. Good price and quality work.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by joltz
    2nd for the 5.1 with hope Pro 2's. I'm about 235 with gear and ride all sorts of Rocky technical. Straight as an arrow still.

    I got mine built by Chad at Red Barn Bikes and they have been really solid. Good price and quality work.
    I'm with Joltz (when I can keep up with him).
    Chad did a great job with mine too.

  7. #7
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    I'm not riding them yet, but 5.1's with Pro II's are what I will be building up in the not too distant future.

    I'm riding a Bonty set of wheel with Bonty stamped DT hubs right now. The hubs have held up fairly well, as have the wheels, but I'm quickly getting to the point where I'm going to outpace what they can handle.

    The 440's are a good quality hub, as are the Pro II's. What sold me on the Hopes was the noise (I commute on MUT's so the louder hub is appreciated), longevity (I am in Canada, so a hub that will take a UK winter will do me spring through fall for sure) and the flexibility of being able to convert between QR and TA.

    The rims were an easy choice....I just saw how many folks were running the DT's for nasty stuff on big travel bikes and how well the rims held up.
    As if four times wasn't enough-> Psycho Mike's 2013 Ride to Conquer Cancer Page

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  8. #8
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    This is great, I really appreciate people's input.

    In my mind I'd got a bigger quality gap between the 440's and the Pro 2's, but it looks like I was wrong on that one.

    Are there any mechanical/servicing issues that people are aware of with the Pro 2? That's the main driving factors for me; reliability and easy maintenance. Plus, although people seem to like the noise of the rear hub I'm wondering if it's possible to quieten a Pro 2 down with a bit of grease? I'm not so much a fan of the tick tick tick/fizz noise, but I suppose I could grow to like it eh

    The 440's seem a Lot of money full rrp. They certainly look like they'd last and last but from people's opinions on here it doesn't seem like it's worth going for them over and above Pro 2's.

    5.1's it is then Mavic seem to do so many rims I get a bit lost on what's what

    Many thanks for the help everyone

  9. #9
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    I hope I am not too late but I will have to give my 2 cents worth. If you want strong wheels you need to take a look at Industry Nines. I have two sets (26 and29ers) and they are the strongest, stiffest damn things on the planet. The 3 degree engagement will blow you away. They are tough and I am definitley not a borderline clydesdale. I would go with the I9 spoke and some DT Swiss 5.1 or get there regular j bend hubs. You won't be dissapointed and you can get some cool colors. check them out. Enjoy your ride.

  10. #10
    lurkio
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    5.1 on Hope for me too, haven't had to true them since new
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedBlueGreen
    Are there any mechanical/servicing issues that people are aware of with the Pro 2? That's the main driving factors for me; reliability and easy maintenance. Plus, although people seem to like the noise of the rear hub I'm wondering if it's possible to quieten a Pro 2 down with a bit of grease? I'm not so much a fan of the tick tick tick/fizz noise, but I suppose I could grow to like it eh
    Another selling point on the Hopes; ease of service. Check out Jerk_Chicken's service guide for this hubs, super easy to take care of.

    Trust me, the freehub noise will grow on you .
    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    in fact for trail type bikes I am tired of QR roady shite in general. Lets move on.

  12. #12
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    I9s are nice....

    While I completely agree the I9s are a great wheelset I think these might be beyond what the OP would like to spend considering the cost of DT 440s was mentioned. For the price of one set of I9s, I could come within 50 bucks or less of having two sets of DT 5.1/Hope IIs. However I don't know the pricing of the I9 hubs that are J-bend compatible so maybe that would be a more resonable build?

    But maybe the OP will fall for the bling If I get a 29er next year odds are it will be rolling on I9s.
    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    in fact for trail type bikes I am tired of QR roady shite in general. Lets move on.

  13. #13
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    The Industry Nines suggested by 4000psi look really very impressive indeed. Unfortunately they're beyond my budget (Skunky14 guessed right), but thanks for the suggestion. The i9 hub design looks kind of similar to the 440 in shape albeit with different spoke attachment which looks like the Hope Pro 3 design.
    They certainly look the sexiest wheels I've seen so far

    Skunky14, many thanks for the link to Jerk Chicken's Pro2 service guide! I'd not seen it before and to have such a resource will be very useful indeed.

    One concern I have is that Pro 2's have an alloy freehub and that in Jerk Chicken's guide it's possible to see damage to the freehub's contact area with the cassette that's been attached.

    I believe Hope recommend only using Cassettes with a 'carrier'. Does that mean that I'd have to limit my cassette selection to high end items? I'm wondering why they don't make the freehub out of a harder metal? It hasn't put me off Hope Pro 2's but I'm puzzled why they'd slightly compromise things with an alloy freehub.

  14. #14
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    5.1s on Hope Pro 2

    Been using this for a year, fatten up 2.3" tyres nicely, haven't had to true them once and survived a week of alpine bombing unscathed.

    Plus the hubs are sealed for a british winter, I disassembled mine the other day still had the nice green grease so they will last forever.

    I haven't used DT Swiss hubs but I've heard they are not as durable and not user serviceable except with special tools?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedBlueGreen
    I believe Hope recommend only using Cassettes with a 'carrier'. Does that mean that I'd have to limit my cassette selection to high end items? I'm wondering why they don't make the freehub out of a harder metal? It hasn't put me off Hope Pro 2's but I'm puzzled why they'd slightly compromise things with an alloy freehub.
    Regarding the alloy freehub, my guess is to save weight vs. a steel freehub. A quick search of DT's webpage didn't reveal to me whether or no the 440s are alloy or steel. If you're really concerned about this the sure bet to prevent this is a steel body King hub, but then you'll probably blow through your budget rather quickly.

    I think you're right about limiting yourself to higher end cassettes. I've been running SRAM PG-990s for a few years now and while it isn't the cheapest thing out there, it still costs less than the XTR cassettes. I believe the PG-980 also is a carrier mounted cassette. On the Shimano side, I believe you're limited to XT and XTR for carrier mounted cassettes, but I could be wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    in fact for trail type bikes I am tired of QR roady shite in general. Lets move on.

  16. #16
    cgd
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    i have heard that hope will be offering a steel cassette body at some point.

  17. #17
    lurkio
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    Quote Originally Posted by cgd
    i have heard that hope will be offering a steel cassette body at some point.
    If you ask them nicely then they may make one just for you, it has been known
    We went, earth, sky, earth sky, earth skyambulance

  18. #18
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    The alloy vs steel freehub sounds like an area where I'd prefer strength over saving a few grams! Still, if major manufacturers such as Hope make them out of alloy it can't be too bad as a material eh

    As Skunkty14 says I might be limiting myself to 980,990 Sram kit and XT and above on shimano. That's no bad thing is it, apart from the slightly higher cost of course.

    Many thanks for all your input everyone, I've learn quite a bit from this thread and I'm grateful

  19. #19
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    if money no object, DT 440 + 5.1, especially if theyre factory built

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by paneristi
    if money no object, DT 440 + 5.1, especially if theyre factory built
    That's the interesting thing, the price I've been quoted for the 440 & 5.1's is only slightly more than Pro 2's on 5.1's, hence me posting the thread.

    I'm now wondering what it is about the 440's that you rate them more highly than the Pro 2's paneristi? I'm interested to hear your opinion that's for sure.

  21. #21
    lurkio
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedBlueGreen
    That's the interesting thing, the price I've been quoted for the 440 & 5.1's is only slightly more than Pro 2's on 5.1's, hence me posting the thread.

    I'm now wondering what it is about the 440's that you rate them more highly than the Pro 2's paneristi? I'm interested to hear your opinion that's for sure.
    Try taking the dt's apart with just you're fingers and then try and get bits. They are very, very good but the hope's are more user friendly. Hope's reputation came from the quality of the hubs they make. Not the brakes.
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  22. #22
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    Anyone over 240 without gear and bike should look for the DT440. I have 240's, 340's, and a ProII. I use the ProII on my bike, 36 pounds, lots of gear+me at 205 or so.

    If the ProII can be sourced with the steel cassette, that would bring them closer, but the 440 will still be the super stout hub. I'm also running a 10mm RWS in the back and I'm theorizing that it would improve the support for the freehub.

  23. #23
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    I really like the fact, as si,s points out that Pro 2's are easily serviced. I guess that the 440's are more possibly involved in the long run.

    Are you saying the 440's are much stronger Jerk_Chicken? I mean, if they're only slightly tougher then I'm still keen on the Pro 2's because I like the fact parts are easily available. I should also say that I'm not even near to 240lbs. What's your experience of DT Swiss hubs JC? It sounds like you're got each model!

    I'm trying to find out how to get a Pro2 with a steel freehub body...I have a funny feeling that a Trials version may have one, but I might be wrong. Anyway I'd better try to check that out before ordering eh! Thanks Everyone.

  24. #24
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    The trials version might also have a different engagement layout, but don't quote me.

    The ProII is a stout hub, but when comparing it to the DT Swiss line with the Hugi/star ratchet systems, they really become more valuable for riders over 235-240 pounds. If you're not near it, then don't worry. My riding weight is sometimes closer to 300 pounds including bike and lots of gear.

  25. #25
    lurkio
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedBlueGreen
    I really like the fact, as si,s points out that Pro 2's are easily serviced. I guess that the 440's are more possibly involved in the long run.

    Are you saying the 440's are much stronger Jerk_Chicken? I mean, if they're only slightly tougher then I'm still keen on the Pro 2's because I like the fact parts are easily available. I should also say that I'm not even near to 240lbs. What's your experience of DT Swiss hubs JC? It sounds like you're got each model!

    I'm trying to find out how to get a Pro2 with a steel freehub body...I have a funny feeling that a Trials version may have one, but I might be wrong. Anyway I'd better try to check that out before ordering eh! Thanks Everyone.
    RBG, send an email to Hope, they will really try and help you out. They are not a faceless corporation and care about the customers needs. Not like CK who in my opinion treat customers as serfs who should be grateful for being allowed to use their products. (my 5 pence worth only). The DT's are damn good though but i'll stick to Hope, never let me down in 15 years (apart from the lousy xc4)
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