Decided to buy a Bullit, any suggestions on coil springs for a 320 pounder?
Based on the advice of others in the forum and Santa Cruz reps (in addition to the sorry state of my hardtail Rockhopper) I've decided to get a Bullit, I don't mind the extra effort climbing to get a solid bike that will rock downhill.
I'll be getting the R FR complete Bullit since it is the only one in my price range at $2300 complete, the specs are below:
Fork: Domain 318 Coil
Shock: DHX 3.0 Coil
REAR DER SRAM X9 medium cage
FRONT DER Shimano M805 (Saint) or M580 (LX)
SHIFTERS SRAM X7 triggers
CRANKSET TruVativ Hussefelt 24/36 w/ bash guard
BOTTOM BRACKET TruVativ Howitzer
CASSETTE SRAM PG 970, 11/32
CHAIN SRAM PC 971
BRAKES Avid Juicy 5's w/ 203mm rotors
BRAKE LEVERS Avid Juicy 5's
BARS Race Face Evolve DH riser
STEM Syncros AM onepointfive stem
GRIPS Lizard Skin Logo
HEADSET 1.5 Cane Creek Double X
SEAT POST Race Face Evolve DH
SADDLE WTB Pure V Race FR
WHEELS Mavic EX 325 rims laced to DT 340 hubs w/ DT 14 guage spokes, brass nipples
TIRES Kenda Nevegal 2.5 wire
TUBES Kenda Freeride
I'm currently at around 320 lbs, I'm thinking I'll use a 750# coil on the DHX 3.0 since that's the stiffest spring that Fox provides which would typically be used for someone that weighs 300 lbs. I am losing weight pretty rapidly with all the riding and dieting I've been doing so I don't have a problem going a little plusher on the spring.
The issue I'm having though is that the stiffest Rock Shox springs for the Domain 318 are meant for someone that weighs more than 220 lbs. I weigh ALOT more than 220#, any ideas on how to deal with this without replacing the fork such as aftermarket coils.
I've emailed Rock Shox (SRAM) and haven't gotten any responses yet so any suggestions are appreciated.
I still haven't had a chance to test ride one because no one has one in a large. I found a place that has a frame and components in stock to build one up though if I decide to buy it, but the decision to buy will be made without actually riding one. I'm assuming that a large will fit me well, I'm 6'2" with a 35" inseam. Based on Santa Cruz's sizing chart anyone from 5'10" to 6'6" should ride a large. Should I just buy it while its available there? My large (19") Rockhopper fits me well.
Put bluntly, I would never buy this package for myself, and I weigh 300lbs.
1.) New coil forks don't work for Superclydes. Nobody makes springs stiff enough. PUSH doesn't work on thru-axle forks. Garageworks will recommend a freeride air fork.
2.) Santa Cruz specs 32 spoke wheels on their bikes, which is no good for Superclydes. You want 36/48 wheels, but you will probably have to settle for 36/36.
3.) At 320lbs you really want a 22 or 20 tooth granny and a 34 tooth sprocket on the cassette for those long climbs. The weight and geometry of the Bullit is bad enough for climbing already. The gearing will make it worse.
4.) Do you know the leverage ratio of the Bullit? It has 178mm of travel, but I can't find any info on shock i2i or stroke length. If Santa Cruz's estimate on your spring rate is wrong, you could be S.O.L.
5.) I've got a Heckler sitting at the LBS waiting for me to buy a fork and some wheels, but the more I learn the more irritated I get at the lack of options for big guys. It makes me want to go out and fix the problem myself.
The need for gearing does depend on where you ride. You will need at least as low as you need on your HT bike, maybe a little lower.
Originally Posted by beanfink
A Marzocchi coil fork with air preload would work. Something like a Z1 FR. It does not have to be this year's model.
Im nearly a clyde, im 200lb and chose the Bullit.2 coz of its strengths. Regardless of your dramas you are on track with the Bullit frame atleast
Last edited by CHUNKY NUGGET; 07-30-2007 at 03:24 AM.
I forgo to menton in my email to you about the gearing and the wheels as well. But, I'll second my vote on both of those. I ran the outlaws for a while with good success and now have a mavic deetracks (It's a 32 spoke So, I'm a little nervous but good so far.)
And i switch from a 32 to a 34 9 speed cassette and it made a huge difference.
Once again, I know you want a bike but don't buy a standard build. Unless you are going to weigh 200 lbs tomorrow, You are better off doing a custom build with all clyde worthy parts right off the start.
Shopping around on ebay/Used, You can get a new frame and parts for what the stock build is no problem.
The ratio on the Bullit.2 is 2.8:1. 7" of travel (basically...) and a 2.5" stroke. I am 255 and run an 800# spring on a 3:1 ratio bike (with very little pre-load) to get 30% sag on a 6.8" travel bike FWIW. I just (two weeks ago) got the new 2008 DHX 5.0 and Fox stated they do *not* have 750# springs. They had 700# and 800# ones. I have both and the 700# requires me to run full preload to get 35% sag and I'm 70 pounds lighter than you and the leverage ratio is hardly any higher on my bike. Just something to think on.
My 2cents on the Domain...don't buy it. I'll second the Z1 Light (air assist). If you ride "big" (freeride/dh/etc) get the 66 or Totem. You *will* kill the Domain if you jump.
Thanks for the responses, glad I didn't just buy the bike yesterday without test riding or researching it.
I emailed Santa Cruz earlier asking what they thought of my weight on this specific build haven't heard from them yet though.
I was definitely planning on swapping the the small chain ring and cassette.
So from what I gather the DHX 3.0 should work, but the Domain 318 absolutely has to go, right?
Will any of the stock Santa Cruz forks used for the Bullit do the job?
They use the following forks:
36 Float RC2
36 Talas RC2
36 Vanilla RC2
Lyrik Solo Air
Domain 318 Coil
Totem Solo Air
Boxxer World Cup
I could try to get the LBS thats building it to upgrade it for me.
I'm sure that I will need to replace the wheels on any stock bike I decide to pick up.
I don't have the know-how to buy all the correct parts used/ebay and don't have the money to have a shop do a custom build.
The one company I have contacted that has said that I would be fine with their bike is Ibex with their Atlas Pro, Manitou also confirmed that their fork/shock would work for me on the Atlas Pro with its 2.5:1 leverage ratio. I just don't want to buy a relatively untested bike online sight unseen.
The other bike I've been looking at is the Enduro SL from Specialized, they actually have suspension charts that go up to 300 pounds. I will email them as well to see what they think.
After seeing some Bullits yesterday though, it's tough to go with anything else.
Can anyone recommend a full suspension bike for my weight at under $3000.
At this point I just want a bike that will work. For the time being I will not do anything rough with it, I'll keep it off any drops or jumps and will stick to fire roads.
Just test rode an Enduro SL Expert, I got around 30% sag at the max pressure of 295 psi on the rear shock so that looks okay although there was a significant amount of pedal bob when I was hammering it. The fork setup was great, we didn't even need to max it out to get a good amount of sag. Overall it felt very plush and responsive.
Still haven't found a Bullit to test ride.
At this point I think the Enduro will be okay based on my test ride, but the Bullit may be much better or much worse, I just can't test ride it to find out.
BTW ImaKlyde you're right they have an 800 pound coil for the DHX.
One good thing was that the salesperson at the LBS was a Clyde too at 280 lbs. he seemed to be very knowledgeable about the issues heavy riders have to deal with.
I think you will be fine in choosing the Bullit. Here is a link to a springrate calculator that many feel is very accurate. It says that you would need a 600lbs spring. So given the Bullits falling rate a 650 or 700 should work .
Mountain Bike Spring Rate Calculator V5.0
As far as the fork goes either buy something like a Lyric or Totem Soloair fork, you should be fine as the general recommendation is 85% of your weight which would be under the 300lbs limit. If you want to get a coil shock then I would order a Marzocchi 66 RC2X from JensonUSA (http://www.jensonusa.com/store/produ...+Rc2x+07.aspx). Marz's can be adjusted using the preload and different oil weights.
As far as wheels go, I would have a set built. Contact Larry at Mtn. High Cyclery and have him build you a set of 36 spoke wheels using Hope Pro 2s and Mavic EX 721 or Mavic EX 729 rims.
So if you think about it that is ~$1000 dollars of your budget into a really nice fork and wheels. Then you can order the frame and kit from santa cruz to finish it off. That would be very close to your budget. Or can can just order the R FR complete and buy the new fork (if you feel like you need it) and ride the current wheels until they break. But a set of hand built wheels will be the best for solution. I do not think you will come any closer to your budget than this. Also, consider what type of terrain you are riding.
The final suggestion is for you to consider a bike from Transition (http://www.transitionbikes.com/2007/index.cfm). Either the Preston FR or the Dirtbag. Either one of these bikes would be under your budget and you can pay the ~$40 more for the 36 spokes wheels from them. Plus the frames are way overbuilt. If you are not very aggresive rider then the Preston FR may fit you better than the bullit or dirtbag.
The air shock will not last very long being ridden at the max PSI.
Yeah I don't want to have to run the shock on the Enduro at max pressure at all times. Also the fact that it's a sub 30 pound bike scares me, a Superclyde bike needs to weight at least 35 pounds.
I think I'm just going to buy the Bullit R FR with the stiffest coils for the DHX and Domain. Once I start breaking things I will replace them.
The guy at the bike shop with the Enduro was even saying that the Bullit was a good bet for me, and they were a Specialized dealer.
I've found no built large Bullits in a 100 mile radius (Funny considering I live 20 miles from Santa Cruz) So I will have to buy it without a test ride.
[QUOTE=MaddSquirrel]I think you will be fine in choosing the Bullit. Here is a link to a springrate calculator that many feel is very accurate. It says that you would need a 600lbs spring. So given the Bullits falling rate a 650 or 700 should work . [QUOTE]
...based on the O.P.'s weight and the Bullit.2's specs *that* particular calc states the O.P. needs an 850# spring (for 25% sag; 700# for 30%), not 600. 600# isn't even close to reality for a 320# dewd on a bike with a leverage ratio of 2.8:1. Falling/Rising/Linear won't come into play with sag/initial stroke set-up anyway. That's more of a mid-end stroke deal. Plus on that particular calc it figures in things like rear bias (good idea) but in truth who the heck knows *and* on a bike like the bullit.2 it's goin to be more rear bias than on say an XC bike (think "typical" riding position on a FR bike like the bullit versus on an XC bike like a Superlight). The seattube angle will factor in some as will seat tilt, bar height, etc... Anyway, a clyde will have more "rear bias" (pardon the punnnn...) and therefore that needs to be figured out as well. Making a bit of an adjustment to that calc and tweaking the numbers to represent how things will be on a FR bike witha Clyde on it that particular calc says: either 750# if it's 65% rear bias and 800# rate with a 70% rear bias. A more upright riding position (once again, think FR type bikes...the bullit.2) and you will see a lot of rear bias.
Like Squirrel says though, stay the hell away from an air shock at your weight. Even the large volume ones (think RP23) on 2:1 leverage bikes are sketchy at your weight.
The Bullit.2 will be hold up to you, but so will a Heckler and some of the Haro and Giant offerings. The Bullit.2 is not an XC bike. I'm not a fan of SantaCruz any longer (long story, has nothing to do with frame quality) but I've owned two Hecklers (the original '98 and the "new" '03 version) and even when I was 300+ I jumped/dropped/rode the crap out of the '03 and the frame never complained. Just go coil and forget the Domain. Go Lyrik if you have to have RS or look at a Z1 light.
Last edited by ImaKlyde; 07-30-2007 at 03:30 PM.
I am working with a Santa Cruz dealer in Santa Cruz to see if they can swap the fork on an R FR Bullit with the Lyrik or Totem Solo air.
Since Giant was brought up how does the suspension setup on a Reign X1 look?
Here are the specs.
frame ALUXX Butted aluminum, 6.75" Travel
fork Fox 36 Vanilla R, 160mm
shock Fox DHX 3.0 Coil
handlebar Easton EA 50 low rise
stem Easton Vice 31.8
seatpost Easton EA 50 350x30.9 mm
saddle WTB Pure V Race
shifters SRAM X.7 Trigger
front derailleur Shimano LX
rear derailleur SRAM X.9
brakes Avid Juicy 5
cassette SRAM PG950 11-34T, 9 speed
chain Shimano HG 53
cranks Race Face Ride DH 24 / 36/ RG
BB Race Face X Type External
rims WTB Dual Duty FR
hubs Formula Disc w/20mm front
spokes DT Competition
tires Hutchinson Barracuda MRC 26x2.3 folding
I originally wanted a Heckler but when I checked with Santa Cruz they said the Bullit would be a better option.
I just looked at Transition bikes and they look very reasonably priced with great customization options.
Anyone know where to buy one? They only have one dealer listed and they are in PA.
How are the Marzocchi Z1 Sport and Marzocchi Z1 RC2 ETA, they are both options at Transition for their Preston FR.
Sorry for all the posts just want to make sure I make the right choice.
Any thoughts on a Kona Coiler Deluxe equipped with a Fox DHX 4.0 and Marzocchi 66 RV ETA?
Heres the full spec list:
Frame sizes S(15"), M(17"), L(18"), XL(19"), XXL(20")
Frame tubing Kona Clump 7005 Aluminum 6" Travel, 2007 D.O.P.E. Ready
Rear Shock Fox DHX 4.0
Fork Marzocchi 66 RV ETA 160mm travel w/20mm Dropouts
Braze-on fittings 1 bottle, rear disc mount
Headset FSA PIG
Crankarms RaceFace Evolve DH X-Type
Chainrings RG/36/24 (44/32/22 for Europe only)
B/B RaceFace Evolve DH X-Type
Pedals Jackshit Primo
Chain Shimano CN-HG73
Freewheel Shimano Deore LX (11-34t, 9-speed)
F/D Shimano Deore LX
R/D Shimano Deore XT
Shifters Shimano Deore LX
Handlebar RaceFace EVOLVE AM OS Riser
Stem RaceFace EVOLVE AM OS
Grips Kona LOG
Brakes HAYES HFX-9 V7 w/BFL Lever
Brake Levers HAYES HFX-9 V7 w/BFL Lever
Front hub KK Disc 20mm
Rear hub Shimano FH-M525 disc
Spokes stainless DT 14g
Tires Maxxis Advantage 26x2.4
Rims Sun SingleTrack SL-1
Saddle WTB Pure V RACE FR
Seatpost RaceFace EVOLVE DH
Seat clamp Kona QR
Colors Brown Matt/Black
The Kona Coiler and Giant Reign are good all mountain/trailbikes. The Kona being a bit more on the beefy side, but not a ton. The Giant would be more xc-ish but not a ton if that makes any sense. Either would hold up for you. Both would be more pedaling/XC/everday riding friendly than the Bullit.2 in my never humble opinion. If you are a dh/fr guy then the Bullit could work for you, but if you are not doing that mostly then I would encourage you to stay away.
Yes the Lyric or Totem or 66 will hold up for you. The Totem and 66 are hardcore FR forks. The Lyric and Z1 are AllMountain/light FR forks.
Transition bikes are OK.
The Santa Cruz guys might just be trying to cover their keesters by recommending the Bullit over the Heckler. They don't know what kind of riding you do. For all they know, you're trying to jump off your roof. A Bullit would definitely be better for that. For regular old weekend bike rides with your friends, a Heckler would treat you much better.
The Full Suspension Superclyde Commandments:
1.) Thou shalt not purchase a full suspension rig with a leverage ratio higher than 2.5:1
2.) Thou shalt go coil in the rear and air or coil + air in front.
3.) Thou shalt not purchase a fork with an axle diameter less than 20mm.
4.) Thou shalt not buy a rig without gussets on the headtube.
5.) Thou shalt not purchase wheels with less than thirty six spokes each, and thou shalt not shod thy wheels in rubber less than 2.35" across, lest thou pinch flats.
6.) Thou shalt rock 8" rotors front and rear.
7.) Thou shalt purchase thy rig from a store made of bricks and mortar, not a store made of bits and bytes.
8.) Thou shalt respect thy mass and the 22-34 gear combo.
9.) Thou shalt not fragment threads hither and thither with an onslaught of discrete inquiries.
10.) Beer is the best bike lube.
Based on the Superclyde commandments I need a Heckler setup with a DHX 5.0 coil, 36 spoke wheels & new rotors, Coiler w/ new wheels and rotors or a customized Preston FR. I also need to stop posting, I'll pop back in when I actually buy something.
First off I used a sag of 35% to calculate the springrate which is reasonable considering it is a FR bike. Next, I think you would be perfect for a Preston FR with a Z1 RC2 ETA fork. That is the top of line in the Z1 series and it has both coil + air or maybe go for the domain uturn. The Preston is going to be an awesome bike. Go the the Transition forum here and read all the reviews. Also, pick up the phone and call them. One of the owners will pick up the phone and answer any questions that you have and you can discuss a parts spec for your weight. I would recommend gettting the 36 spoke revolution wheelset and upgrade the brakes to the formulas or the juicy 7s. Kyle or Kevin may also give you the option to go with bigger rotors. You can purchase the bike from them directly or you can have your favorite shop order it for you.
If you want to consider more options think used and get a Turner or Ventana. I ride one (Turner) now (an RFX) and it is the best FS bike I've ever owned. It's 6+" front and rear and is fine getting ridden on singletrack all day or doing shuttle runs all day. Now that I have a coil on it it's even better than when first purchased (had 5" rockers and a dhx air on it; now 6" rockers and coil). Able to handle the heft? I've done 8' drops to harsh landings and had nothing go wrong with the frame or fork ('06 Z1 light). I've seen them used in your price range ($3k?). Just a thought. If anything I wish I had a 66 or Totem, but that's just an "upgrade-itis" thing.
I've seen used Ventana's pretty reasonable as well.
long standing member
This post needs to be a sticky.
Originally Posted by beanfink
long standing member
This is good advice. I went the used Turner route (RFX) and don't think I could've made a better choice for the money. A new model of either of those brands probably cannot be built up for less than $3000, but a used frame with new, clyde-worthy components can. Search the classifieds, ebay, etc.
Originally Posted by ImaKlyde
A frame with a thru-axle rear would be great. I know that at 260lbs the rear of my Turner isn't as stiff as it could/should be. I would expect something similar from almost any vertical dropout frame with a QR axle. The Knolly Delirium T is available with a 135mm TA rear, but it's also $2500 just for the frame.
Really? That's good to hear. I've been hesitant to take my RFX too bit in fear of breaking it and myself, but if you're going that large on yours I'm inspired to let the reigns out a little on mine.
Able to handle the heft? I've done 8' drops to harsh landings and had nothing go wrong with the frame or fork ('06 Z1 light).
get a heckler
hey there, I'm 6'3" and 275, I used to own a bullit and it was ok, but after 2 years of wrestling it around the mountains I decided to get an xl heckler and it is One Million times better. Seriously the heckler is as strong as a bullit and the geometry is so much better for pretty much any type of riding.
Another clyde commandment should be:
thou shalt only use single pivot rear suspension
I think you know how BlackRock is: most things are rideable or "ride-around-able", but every now and then you find yourself "surprised" as it were. I ditched off a logride (the one that is now kinked into sections but last fall ran right over the creek and was anywhere from 3 to 10' off the ground) up there and landed the hop off at about 8' to an uphill (broke my nose but stuck the landing) with no issues from the bike. I've taken a few that size (8')but typically I stick to my "head high" rule (I'm 6'3"). My a$$ starts to pucker about chest high if you know what I mean.
Originally Posted by PCinSC
Anyway, the frame has taken it. The only thing that's ever happened is I bent the brake tabs after casing a drop (small: 3.5') to flat to drop section at my place. That was fixed in less than 10 minutes and really was not the frame's fault. I landed on the bike sideways and hit a rock...and all that happens is a bent tab? Cool, let's ride; you know?
I've seen the horst link Turner RFX's for sale at around a grand or less maybe (frame only) pretty regularly.
Literally the *only* complaint I had about my Heckler when I still rode it was the brake jack (suspension unloading when braking forces were applied) and it was bad, bad, bad but that's the only complaint and it is a common one with single pivot designs (just like stiffening under braking is with HL or similar designs, think TNT or Kona) but there are "floating" brake kits available to retro-fit Hecklers and such. I think they are under $100, but do not quote me!
PS: I'm loving the 10 commandments.
Bought my bike against most of the Super Clyde commandments, its an Ibex Atlas Pro.
Here's my reasoning.
1) I was not going to get to test ride or even sit on any of the bikes I was going to need to have built for me, with the Ibex I get to test it out for 30 days without risking anymore than the cost of shipping.
2) Its 2000 bucks for a full XT/XTR equipped bike with a 600 dollar air fork.
3) True it has an air shock in the rear but Manitou assured me I would be fine, but even if I need to swap it out for a DHX 5.0 Coil that is just a 400 dollar upgrade.
4) It leaves me a lot of extra cash for beefy wheels.
5) I can swap out the frame if I need to at some point, the components alone are worth the price of entry.
6) No tax on shipments to California (love to stick it to tha man)
long standing member
That's OK, there's another Clyde commandment that wasn't mentioned:
Originally Posted by big_mountain_biker
I'm sure it'll be fine, have fun riding. Give us a ride report when you get some miles in.
Originally Posted by the mountain bike gods
That was a good choice considering the praise that Ibex gets here. I would invest in a bolt-on front axle if you start to find that the front fork flexes, it should be fine as it. The manitou air shocks always get good reviews and just an FYI there is a new company that is doing custom tuning for manitou shocks.