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  1. #1
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    A Challenge to the MTB Industry!

    I recently broke my 6th full suspension frame...so I wrote a challenge to the industry...I hope someone takes note...

    Singletrack Geek: A SG Challenge to Mountain Bike Manufacturers

  2. #2
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    What kinds of frames are your breaking? If your are not getting air cause it equals pain than why do you need an AM 5-6" travel bike?

  3. #3
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    I live on Vancouver island, the trails are steep and nasty so I prefer to run a slacker more travel MTB, if I rode more XC frames I would be snapping them even more. Just because I don't get air does not mean I am not riding technically demanding trails...I just prefer to keep things on the ground.

  4. #4
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    Feel your pain mate!
    Not quite as tall and heavy, 6'2 and 105kg,and I'm onto my 4th Anthem 29er, so it's getting replaced ASAP!
    In hindsight should've picked something a bit "heavier", but was assured that it was more than strong enough for me! Wrong!
    Can you give a heads up on what I should try to avoid?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by wollongongdave View Post
    Feel your pain mate!
    Not quite as tall and heavy, 6'2 and 105kg,and I'm onto my 4th Anthem 29er, so it's getting replaced ASAP!
    In hindsight should've picked something a bit "heavier", but was assured that it was more than strong enough for me! Wrong!
    Can you give a heads up on what I should try to avoid?

    The last two frames I have cracked I sent emails to the owners/designers of the companies and I was very specific, both said I should have no issues...but both were fairly new designs when I bought them...untested...oops...what can I say I love new stuff...haha...

    When I shop for bikes and parts I try to look at the design and see anything I think may be a weakness, there usually is a nice light but not too light option out there that I usually go with. But as you can tell, my frame choosing skills have not been so good...lol...

    I am wondering if the new carbon frames will be better than aluminum has for big guys...I guess time will tell.

  6. #6
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    What brands of frames are you breaking?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudpuppy View Post
    The last two frames I have cracked I sent emails to the owners/designers of the companies and I was very specific, both said I should have no issues...but both were fairly new designs when I bought them...untested...oops...what can I say I love new stuff...haha...

    When I shop for bikes and parts I try to look at the design and see anything I think may be a weakness, there usually is a nice light but not too light option out there that I usually go with. But as you can tell, my frame choosing skills have not been so good...lol...

    I am wondering if the new carbon frames will be better than aluminum has for big guys...I guess time will tell.
    Thats what I'm tossing up now, thinking of a Tallboy but carbon or aluminium?
    Decisions decisions!!
    Any other big units out there riding a Tallboy? Is it holding up?

  8. #8
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    I am loving the look of the Mojo HD as well...god that is a sexy bike.

    As for the bike brands...the info is out there but this was not meant as an attack on any brand per say...just the industry as a whole...that is the reason I left the names out.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudpuppy View Post
    I recently broke my 6th full suspension frame...so I wrote a challenge to the industry...I hope someone takes note...

    Singletrack Geek: A SG Challenge to Mountain Bike Manufacturers
    Open letters are lame.

    How is blaming "an industry" helpful? You are the market. You vote with your wallet. If you are upset that some bikes that didn't live up to claimed performance, take your issues up with the manufacturers.

    There are bikes for guys who are tough on bikes-- big guys and brutes. In fact, there are makers in your very Province-- and just south of you in Washington State-- who make bike frames you would not break doing the kind of riding you say you do.

    And if-- somehow--you did brake one of their bikes, those mfrs would likely build an ad campaign around you.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudpuppy View Post
    I have broken bikes from Both BC and WA bike companies....both manufacturers have treated me well, but the fact is I still broke their bikes. I was up front and asked both companies (I asked the owners/designers) if I would experience any issues...they both said no. So I did vote with my wallet and I am still waiting for frames to get warrantied...so how is this my fault exactly?

    This letter was to lite a fire under peoples asses...to get them fired up about this issue as well, I do not feel that we need to be riding a bike that is not intended for the type of riding that we do just because we are tall or bigger than most riders. If we the consumer do not tell the manufacturers that we are tired of this, how are they to know?
    The letter makes you sound like a whiner. You broke a Banshee and a Transition? Really?

  11. #11
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    I have broken bikes from Both BC and WA bike companies....both manufacturers have treated me well, but the fact is I still broke their bikes. I was up front and asked both companies (I asked the owners/designers) if I would experience any issues...they both said no. So I did vote with my wallet and I am still waiting for frames to get warrantied...so how is this my fault exactly?

    This letter was to lite a fire under peoples asses...to get them fired up about this issue as well, I do not feel that we need to be riding a bike that is not intended for the type of riding that we do just because we are tall or bigger than most riders. If we the consumer do not tell the manufacturers that we are tired of this, how are they to know?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Dave View Post
    The letter makes you sound like a whiner. You broke a Banshee and a Transition? Really?

    Yup.

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    Dude, you should be used in the Canadian army as a weapon. Harness your destructive power for the good of Humanity.

    But stop whining on your blog that mfrs aren't catering to you. It's lame.

    D

  14. #14
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    Hah...thanks.

    Not really asking them to cater to me specifically but the HUGE amount of taller/bigger riders out there who have to deal with bikes that are not suited to their style or terrain just because they are taller or bigger than the average person. This is not going to go away either...people are getting bigger...my son is almost taller than me and he is not showing any signs of slowing down either...and he said he is not very tall compared to others in his grade....so the industry will change, lets just hope it's sooner rather than later.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudpuppy View Post
    Hah...thanks.

    Not really asking them to cater to me specifically but the HUGE amount of taller/bigger riders out there who have to deal with bikes that are not suited to their style or terrain just because they are taller or bigger than the average person. This is not going to go away either...people are getting bigger...my son is almost taller than me and he is not showing any signs of slowing down either...and he said he is not very tall compared to others in his grade....so the industry will change, lets just hope it's sooner rather than later.
    So you think this problem within the bike industry (that no one has made a trail bike bike you can't break) is because no one has told them that there are big/tall people? So you're telling them now, to rectify this?

    I'm not sure of the source of your Powers of Bike Annihilation, but if I were you, I'd cease the pearl-clutching blog posts of indigantion and I'd contact the guy in Feebay who just yesterday had a no-sale on a basically new Morphine frame (Large), and build a bike around that. With six wrecked bikes worth of parts kicking around, you can make the big-boy bike of your dreams.

    If you break that, I will not get in or on plane or train or ship that you are on, Hoss.

  16. #16
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    haha...no thanks on the Morphine, not interested, if you read my blog post fully you would understand.

    Thanks for the pro tips there brosef, will keep them in my mind.

  17. #17
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    Your blog/rant reminds me of those Ford Raptor owners that trashed their trucks, many links on the topic, but here's one: Are Ford Raptor frames too weak for off-roading?

    Basically, went out, hammered them, broke them, then blamed Ford for not making a strong enough product to handle the abuse the trucks suffered at their hands.

    In the end, Ford came out and corrected them for being morons, more or less: SVT boss goes on record about Ford Raptor frame damage claims [w/video]

    I read your blog, you're what 250lb? I think the problem is that you're acting indignant like look at all these busted ass bike frames for someone who doesn't go big beyond XC riding. Dude, if you have snapped 6 major manufacturer frames at your weight, doing nothing but XC, you've got to seriously take a look at your riding style. Full suspension no less, sounds like you probably aren't setting your shock/sag right, and you're bottoming them out, I mean how else could you be snapping the frames?

    The thing is... it's not about the bike.
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  18. #18
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    Back when I was 270lbs I snapped spokes, I bent wheels, bent seat posts, broke/bent seat rails, chains, and even crank arms. Never did I break a frame. Tweaked a few rear triangles on lower end FS frames but never actually broke a frame. My brother is 280 and he has the same problems I did but like me has never broke a frame. Even doing a little 'urban assault' (basically city free riding) I never broke a frame. Perhaps a better thing for the OP to look at is getting some trials videos and learn to be a little more smooth? Also, one thing that helped me a LOT when I was heavier (today I'm at 215) was sending my suspension to Push. The stresses on the frame from over inflated shocks is enormous. Push can help remedy that and a 'push' is a lot cheaper and easier than acquiring a new frame.

    Good luck and I hope you find something out there that will work for you.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowmaster View Post
    Your blog/rant reminds me of those Ford Raptor owners that trashed their trucks, many links on the topic, but here's one: Are Ford Raptor frames too weak for off-roading?

    Basically, went out, hammered them, broke them, then blamed Ford for not making a strong enough product to handle the abuse the trucks suffered at their hands.

    In the end, Ford came out and corrected them for being morons, more or less: SVT boss goes on record about Ford Raptor frame damage claims [w/video]

    I read your blog, you're what 250lb? I think the problem is that you're acting indignant like look at all these busted ass bike frames for someone who doesn't go big beyond XC riding. Dude, if you have snapped 6 major manufacturer frames at your weight, doing nothing but XC, you've got to seriously take a look at your riding style. Full suspension no less, sounds like you probably aren't setting your shock/sag right, and you're bottoming them out, I mean how else could you be snapping the frames?

    The thing is... it's not about the bike.
    Indignant, lol...yup that's me (if they made a emoticon of my eyes rolling to the back of my head...I would put it here). I love the internet...people name calling because it makes them feel superior. Good Job. FYI You can make a point without resorting to name calling, heck you may even get respect out of the deal, but once you sink to that level...well...that's gone.

    No where did I say I ride XC. I ride the friggin things hard and love doing it, I brake too much and go slower than most in my group...just when they are going off the stunts, I happily ride around them.

    My sag and shock setup are correct, I like to make sure my bike is running in top condition. If you would like the number of my mechanic, please ask I will be happy to put you in contact with him so he can let you know what kind of bike geek I am and how I maintain my stuff. Because I have broken a few frames, I take care to make sure my shocks are set up properly...who wants to ride a bike that is set up improperly anyway?

    This is not all about me, this is about getting people on bikes that they can ride with confidence, not having to worry that they are going to break something out in the bush, or getting hurt when it does break...this is about the industry realizing that we are not all under 6" and to put some more thought into the XL bikes that they sell...don't just supersize a frame that may work great for a little dude, but put some thought into the extra forces that the longer tubes will be under because of the larger size of the frame. I am not the only person over 6" that rides bikes....this is a larger issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by dontheclysdale View Post
    Back when I was 270lbs I snapped spokes, I bent wheels, bent seat posts, broke/bent seat rails, chains, and even crank arms. Never did I break a frame. Tweaked a few rear triangles on lower end FS frames but never actually broke a frame. My brother is 280 and he has the same problems I did but like me has never broke a frame. Even doing a little 'urban assault' (basically city free riding) I never broke a frame. Perhaps a better thing for the OP to look at is getting some trials videos and learn to be a little more smooth? Also, one thing that helped me a LOT when I was heavier (today I'm at 215) was sending my suspension to Push. The stresses on the frame from over inflated shocks is enormous. Push can help remedy that and a 'push' is a lot cheaper and easier than acquiring a new frame.

    Good luck and I hope you find something out there that will work for you.
    Thanks man, I hope I do as well.

    I have the opposite problem as you had...never done much damage to my wheels or other parts (except saddles...I tend to bend the rails)...but for some reason I am hard on frames. I think if I was a total hack I would go through wheels...I mean I am not an awesome rider by any stretch of the imagination...but I think if this was all me...some other parts would break more often...no?

    I just got my rear shock back from being custom tuned and looking to do the forks in the near future. As I said earlier I am pretty picky about how my bike is set up and do a lot of research because of that. My attention to detail is fairly high....also a bit of a perfectionist so I like **** to work how it is supposed to. I research the **** out of just about every product I buy. I have been doing this since middle school and I am almost 40 now...I am not a n00b, I know how to set up my bikes and I put a lot of thought into it all.

    I ride rough, rocky, rooty, steep, fast trails, I brake too much, and admittedly I am not as smooth as one could be but I love this sport and only want to see it grow and making it easier, safer and more enjoyable for taller/bigger riders is important IMO. Look at the bigger picture here...a lot of taller/bigger people have issues with frames, forks, random parts because they are made for the average rider...which we are not, so we run into more problems. I am not expecting everything to change, to do so would be stupid...but I just want companies to take notice and see there is a demand for a better product for clydes...that's it....that's all.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudpuppy View Post
    Indignant, lol...yup that's me (if they made a emoticon of my eyes rolling to the back of my head...I would put it here). I love the internet...people name calling because it makes them feel superior. Good Job. FYI You can make a point without resorting to name calling, heck you may even get respect out of the deal, but once you sink to that level...well...that's gone.

    No where did I say I ride XC. I ride the friggin things hard and love doing it, I brake too much and go slower than most in my group...just when they are going off the stunts, I happily ride around them.

    My sag and shock setup are correct, I like to make sure my bike is running in top condition. If you would like the number of my mechanic, please ask I will be happy to put you in contact with him so he can let you know what kind of bike geek I am and how I maintain my stuff. Because I have broken a few frames, I take care to make sure my shocks are set up properly...who wants to ride a bike that is set up improperly anyway?

    This is not all about me, this is about getting people on bikes that they can ride with confidence, not having to worry that they are going to break something out in the bush, or getting hurt when it does break...this is about the industry realizing that we are not all under 6" and to put some more thought into the XL bikes that they sell...don't just supersize a frame that may work great for a little dude, but put some thought into the extra forces that the longer tubes will be under because of the larger size of the frame. I am not the only person over 6" that rides bikes....this is a larger issue.
    Indignant. I do not think that word means what you think it means. That's not an insult, it is a description of your tone.



    My question remains, where are you breaking these frames in particular (on the frame), that's pretty important to know. I don't think anyone can speculate at all what is going wrong since you are for some reason inclined not to share what exactly is happening when you break these frames, which frames are being broken, and where on the frames they are breaking. Why not post pictures of the 6 frames and where they cracked, or at least describe it? You don't need to protect any company from insult... seriously.

    Snapping 6 full suspension frames, hardly constitutes "breaking a few frames", you are going through them like cold beer on a hot day. The thing is, there are a lot of bigger guys railing on bikes that are far less burly than the couple you mentioned without breaking them. I mean you're either insinuating, that because you're tall and are so "awesome" that your massive power is overstressing the frames and breaking them, or that your weight at 250 combined with your "awesomeness" is doing it.

    My point is, you're looking at this from the wrong perspective. You're blaming your gear, which is a pretty typical reaction for certain types. I'm not calling names, and I'm not insulting you, you posted because you clearly wanted responses, but from your tone it sounds like you were just looking for a bunch of people to just pat you on the back and say "yeah you're right, your awesomeness is the same problem we have", thanks for the open letter.

    Incidentally, most XL sized frames actually are in fact designed differently, not just upsized.
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  21. #21
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    I feel your pain, I bought my first full suspension bike this year and, although the frame held up, a lot of the components did not (Pivots, BB, freehub, rear shock....). I'm 6'6" and ride a lot.

    The problem is, I would hesitate to buy that bike if the XL size was 35 lbs. when the other sizes are sub-30. I think most people are in the same boat.

    My solution was to go back to a hardtail for the durability and lack of maintenance hassles. I've always ridden hardtails anyways so I don't mind.

    Also, part of riding hard is breaking stuff. I have a couple of friends who are over 6', fit (not heavy), LBS mechanics so they know how to maintain **** but they ride super hard and break 1-2 of frames/year on average, not to mention countless parts.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowmaster View Post
    Indignant. I do not think that word means what you think it means. That's not an insult, it is a description of your tone.



    My question remains, where are you breaking these frames in particular (on the frame), that's pretty important to know. I don't think anyone can speculate at all what is going wrong since you are for some reason inclined not to share what exactly is happening when you break these frames, which frames are being broken, and where on the frames they are breaking. Why not post pictures of the 6 frames and where they cracked, or at least describe it? You don't need to protect any company from insult... seriously.

    Snapping 6 full suspension frames, hardly constitutes "breaking a few frames", you are going through them like cold beer on a hot day. The thing is, there are a lot of bigger guys railing on bikes that are far less burly than the couple you mentioned without breaking them. I mean you're either insinuating, that because you're tall and are so "awesome" that your massive power is overstressing the frames and breaking them, or that your weight at 250 combined with your "awesomeness" is doing it.

    My point is, you're looking at this from the wrong perspective. You're blaming your gear, which is a pretty typical reaction for certain types. I'm not calling names, and I'm not insulting you, you posted because you clearly wanted responses, but from your tone it sounds like you were just looking for a bunch of people to just pat you on the back and say "yeah you're right, your awesomeness is the same problem we have", thanks for the open letter.

    Incidentally, most XL sized frames actually are in fact designed differently, not just upsized.
    Hah, my lack of knowledge of the English language (the only language I know BTW) has failed me yet again...as long as we don't have a battle of wits with some iocane thrown in for fun...I think I will be ok.

    You have to remember this is over 20 years of riding. Never breaking a HT (of which I have owned many, I still have a Norco Sasquatch as a backup bike), and if you want to know where I broke my frames, the first three all in the same place...broken shock mount bolt and then the shock would push up into the frame...causing the damage, so may of those failed back in the day. But the last three...check out the photo's in the post on my blog...those are mine. One top tube, one BB and one chain stay non drive side. The first three really do not count, that was back in the day when companies were trying to figure out FS bikes, but the latest three...Transition Covert and two Banshee Rune's.

    I know it's not all the gears fault...but I also know that if I was smaller I would not be experiencing these issues, the people I ride with are not having these issues and the one or two bigger guys ride HUGE freeride bikes to get away from these issues....I would love to see the day when clydes do not have to ride a bigass 40+ pound freeride bike...maybe it's just a pipe dream...but if you don't ask for something you will never get it.

    The awesomeness was an attempt at humor...lol...better than saying my fat ass! If you look at my blog the 2nd post down has a nice shot of my "awesomeness"..my roommate pointed that out yesterday...lol...what are friends fo
    Last edited by mudpuppy; 09-17-2011 at 11:56 AM.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by anthony.delorenzo View Post
    I feel your pain, I bought my first full suspension bike this year and, although the frame held up, a lot of the components did not (Pivots, BB, freehub, rear shock....). I'm 6'6" and ride a lot.

    The problem is, I would hesitate to buy that bike if the XL size was 35 lbs. when the other sizes are sub-30. I think most people are in the same boat.

    My solution was to go back to a hardtail for the durability and lack of maintenance hassles. I've always ridden hardtails anyways so I don't mind.

    Also, part of riding hard is breaking stuff. I have a couple of friends who are over 6', fit (not heavy), LBS mechanics so they know how to maintain **** but they ride super hard and break 1-2 of frames/year on average, not to mention countless parts.
    Yeah, a HT on our trails is really not a great option, unless I totally went to riding XC. BC xc is a little different...lol...if you have not ridden up here...come on up I would love to show you around so you can see what I am talking about. There is a reason a lot of the toughest, most sought after bikes and brands come from BC, our testing grounds are hard on bikes and gear.

  24. #24
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    You should post your challenge on the Banshee board, since you destroyed one of their frames riding XC. Builttoride (who posts there a lot) is one of the principles in Banshee. He might offer you some insight into your disappointments and hopes and dreams.

  25. #25
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    I know Keith (Builttoride) and have been in contact with him about this. No worries...I love Banshee and their customer service is awesome...they have treated me really well through this, hence the reason I did not feel the need to bring up their name in all of this. He knows what I think, I have been honest and open with him about this, and we will see what comes from it.

    Again, this is not about the brands that I happened to be riding, I am not the only one experiencing this issue. This is about the lack of choices for us bigger riders riding aggressive AM terrain.

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