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Thread: Carbon wheels

  1. #1
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    Carbon wheels

    Any carbon wheels that are clyde approved? I'm about 240 + gear. The light bicycle all mountain rims look promising if built with some heavier spokes than the dt revolutions. Also the new $1200 rovals look nice. It'd be nice to get a wheelset around 1600 grams. That'd be 3/4 of a pound lighter than a set of flows.

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    You can get non-carbon wheels that will assuredly be cheaper in the 1600g range.

    Dunno what type of terrain you ride but I weigh over 240 with gear on Bontrager Race Lite wheels, which are about 1600g, and have had no issue. I was 270 when I started on them too. I am SOLD on carbon frames, not sure about carbon wheels... that's another topic though.

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    There are no weight limits on Easton Wheels. They have all mountain and XC carbon wheels. Costly. I have some Havens on my bike (~300 W/gear) and they are holding up fine. Mine are the AL ones though ~1750g for the set.

    Mark
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Carbon wheels-img_20130826_190321.jpg  

    Carbon wheels-img_20130826_190220.jpg  

    2012 XXL Carve Expert

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alias530 View Post
    You can get non-carbon wheels that will assuredly be cheaper in the 1600g range.

    Dunno what type of terrain you ride but I weigh over 240 with gear on Bontrager Race Lite wheels, which are about 1600g, and have had no issue. I was 270 when I started on them too. I am SOLD on carbon frames, not sure about carbon wheels... that's another topic though.
    I just had my niner carbon frame crack. The replacement may require a 12x142 rear hence the question. From my limited experience I am not happy with carbon whether it is a material limitation or niner trying to get as light a frame as possible

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    Those seem like a really light set for your weight. Any issues with them getting out of true? Part of the reason I was leaning towards carbon is for the stiffness.

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    Carbon wheels

    I have 1600gm ENVE AM wheels which have proven to be durable. I'm leery of CF frames based on poor previous experiences.


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    Quote Originally Posted by danny31292 View Post
    Those seem like a really light set for your weight. Any issues with them getting out of true? Part of the reason I was leaning towards carbon is for the stiffness.
    These eastons are holding up quite well. I still have my old rims for a backup set but I have not needed them yet.
    ,
    2012 XXL Carve Expert

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    Quote Originally Posted by millertm View Post
    There are no weight limits on Easton Wheels. They have all mountain and XC carbon wheels. Costly. I have some Havens on my bike (~300 W/gear) and they are holding up fine. Mine are the AL ones though ~1750g for the set.

    Mark
    That's good to know, because I've been talking to my buddy at Easton about a set of Havens and I was a little leery of going with a 24H... We talked carbon as well, but they aren't as stiff as people think. And I'm not paying as much for a set of wheels as I did for my bike to save 150grams over a top level AL wheelset.
    Bike Doctor



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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawks01 View Post
    That's good to know, because I've been talking to my buddy at Easton about a set of Havens and I was a little leery of going with a 24H... We talked carbon as well, but they aren't as stiff as people think. And I'm not paying as much for a set of wheels as I did for my bike to save 150grams over a top level AL wheelset.
    My LBS had this set left over from 2012, I got the pair for ~$500 installed. There might be other leftovers out there. My hub is XX0 rev, so I did not need the bearing upgrade and the hub is not getting sloppy after about 500 miles. If you look around now that it is winter and LBS's are getting slower you might get some deals. Moreover, with the Havocs out there the Havens are going quick.

    Mark
    2012 XXL Carve Expert

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    I asked Light Bikes for their test data for the XC rim. They gave me the data, including images of their test fixtures. I've now asked for the AM rim to compare. I love the transparency, and if they give me the AM data too they'll have my business!

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    Also, if you ask, Light Bikes will add extra carbon layers to their rims for a small fee. Nancy told me at one time she'd make me a 450 gram rim for $10 extra. I think their AM rims are usually around 400 grams. I almost bought a used set of rims off someone local to build up but didn't really need them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oaktree View Post
    I asked Light Bikes for their test data for the XC rim. They gave me the data, including images of their test fixtures. I've now asked for the AM rim to compare. I love the transparency, and if they give me the AM data too they'll have my business!
    Let us know what kind of info you get back. I'd love to build up a set of there AM 30mm wide rims.

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    IMO, I just don't feel the difference between the LB carbons on my Jet9rdo and stock aluminum wheels on my Superfly Trek. I'm 215 lbs and have been using Strava for more than a year to compare/document my segment times and compete favorably against other "average-size" riders. My best times really come when the trail soil conditions and I am able to give best effort.
    That said, if you go LB, don't buy complete wheel sets from them. My spokes and front hub have all failed in less than a year….partly due to aluminum nipple issue.

  14. #14
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    Yeah as a super clyde I've never bought a factory wheelset, always hubs and rims separate and build up with quality spokes and brass nips. As a clyde, wheelbuilding is one of the best things you can learn.

  15. #15
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    One way to clyde-proof a wheel is to use 36 holes in the rear and 32 in the front. No matter what type of rim and spokes you use, a few extra spokes make a significant difference in durability and stiffness. I'm a light boy but I've built some wheels.

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    Can anyone give me advice on whether or not I can run a carbon hoop (EVNE) on the front of my Ripley, with the aluminum Stan's Arch on the rear? Why, you ask?! I had a warranty issue on the SpeedTuned hub that came on my Ripley. After multiple repairs and replacing it once, the dealer agreed to replace the hub, at their cost, with the DT Swiss 240 (my choice). So now I'm running a Stan's Arch/DT240 on the rear, and I want to get rid of the POS SpeedTuned hub on the front. So, I'm thinking why not do it right and get a carbon wheel build on the front. I'm a bit concerned the from and rear may feel way too different (no flex/flex). Thoughts? Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jkidd_39 View Post
    Let us know what kind of info you get back. I'd love to build up a set of there AM 30mm wide rims.
    data from Light-Bicycle, chart by Oaktree 12/6/13

    rim name 29er 27W-24D 29er 35W-25D
    max recommended rider weight 264 lb ?
    inner bead width 22 mm 30 mm
    approximate rim weight 370 g 420 g
    test: static load at breakage* 385 lb 609 lb
    deflection at breakage load 1.9 in 1.1 in
    test: max spoke pull 671 lb 898 lb

    * LB calls it a "rim impact test" which to me indicates force applied over a fraction of a second, but because the force appears to gradualy increased over several minutes I think it is better described as a static load test. I believe this is based on a single sample. LB requires a minimum of 330 lb before breakage for passing designs. LB indicated that the spoke pull tests for these rims resulted in cracked nipples or broken spokes indicating that the spoke hole was not the mode of failure

  18. #18
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    As an experienced Clyde (6-3 275) I have broken frames,cranks,pedal axles, wheels,freehubs, seatrails,shocks. I consider myself a walking destructive tester.

    Wheels- I think carbon if done properly has some real advantages for us. The issue with rim mfg today is they have abandoned the market that demands 36H and 40H rims.
    As MTB went to 26" wheels it was perceived as overkill(36H) by the industry, except at the very fringes of users (Clydes and Tandems). Bottom line they don't really care to stock a small percentage of 36H drilled product waiting for us to buy them.
    With larger rim diameters you could see the need for 36H creeping back (I hope).

    I have not destroyed any rims lately as I run DH Mavic (very heavy) and FlowEX.
    What I break frequently are spokes on climbs.
    My next wheel build will be a Wide Carbon 26" rim with 32H and triple butted spokes(2.3mm at the bend) and the spokes always break at the bend.
    I only run Chris King or DT Swiss hubs as they are the only freehubs that I have never seen or heard of failing. IMO CK is far and away the premier rear hub maker for us.
    Stay away from silly light cranks and racy light pedals.
    I always shorten a longer fork for trail (36mm min), run 20mm axles and 203F/180R rotors.
    Shimano Icetech rotors (RT86) significantly reduce heat issues on the brakes. They are the only ones to use in my opinion.
    All suspension tuners will tell you to go coil for optimum performance, but it is ridiculously heavy and nobody wants to make coils at a high enough rate for those over 220-240.You can get air to work OK (not great) but would be advised to have it tuned as the RB and compression circuits are not designed to handle our mass. You will also need to pay more attention to seal maintenance.

  19. #19
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    Re: Carbon wheels

    ^^^^
    Good to hear you are using triple butted spokes and have not been mislead into using straight gauge spokes due to your weight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thickfog View Post
    ^^^^
    Good to hear you are using triple butted spokes and have not been mislead into using straight gauge spokes due to your weight.
    A little flex is not a bad thing......but just a little. There is a noticeable difference between a 36H and 32H rim build. Wider rims also make a huge difference.
    I am pushing Derby to make some 26x 40mm wide carbon rims that will weigh 440g or less. These will be the ultimate if it happens.

  21. #21
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    Its gonna take a long time for me to get comfortable with the idea of carbon wheels for us big guys. And I may never get there with carbon wheels on a 29er for big guys. The pysics/cost/risk equation, I just can't get to work. Do you guys think there is enough of a performance improvement with carbon wheels to risk it? The weight savings generally shouldnt' be an issue for us big guys, so performance improvement is the only benefit. Or maybe I"m wrong. Feel free to flame me.
    Salvation Outdoor
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdudecycling View Post
    Its gonna take a long time for me to get comfortable with the idea of carbon wheels for us big guys. And I may never get there with carbon wheels on a 29er for big guys. The pysics/cost/risk equation, I just can't get to work. Do you guys think there is enough of a performance improvement with carbon wheels to risk it? The weight savings generally shouldnt' be an issue for us big guys, so performance improvement is the only benefit. Or maybe I"m wrong. Feel free to flame me.
    I don;t see an issue with CF wheels. Depends on the structure.
    The latest DH/AM CF stuff is at least as strong if not significantly stronger than aluminum and up to 150g lighter. All that weight is on the outer rotating edge. I don't see a downside as long as you stay on the HD side of CF rims.
    I don't see any reason why a Clyde would be on a 29er anyway. Shitty gearing would rule it out for me unless I was riding nothing but flat, rolling terrain. Not to mention the heavy rolling weight and flimsy nature of 29er wheels.

  23. #23
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    I built up a set of LB wide 29er wheels. I used BHS hubs and DT comp spokes 32/32. 1585g for the set. I'm 245 naked and they are doing fine. I ride XC but go down pretty fast. Do the occasional 12" drop and rock gardens. So far the strongest wheels I've ridden.
    Goat Rider

  24. #24
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    Regarding CF wheels, like aluminum they can be made strong and are generally stronger than similar weight aluminum wheels. But, due to the layup, compression and epoxy matrix along with being very hands on to make, we've introduced many opportunities for defects.

    Personally, recently placed an order with LB for their carbon rims. I like their transparency, their history of process improvements is right on their website and their cost makes it a low financial risk option. I'll build 'em up with DT comp' and XT hubs and expect to have a direct replacement for my Flows for my hardtail. I never had strength problems with the Flows but a stick got in the works and pulled spokes through.

    See the test data I posted up the thread a few days ago. Check out the 29er 35W-25D which is an AM rim it is 14% heavier than their XC rim, but 58% stronger. I'd like to see the Flows hold that weight, I broke my already damaged one by sitting and bouncing on it, I'd guess this carbon rim is significantly stronger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chasejj View Post
    I don;t see an issue with CF wheels. Depends on the structure.
    The latest DH/AM CF stuff is at least as strong if not significantly stronger than aluminum and up to 150g lighter. All that weight is on the outer rotating edge. I don't see a downside as long as you stay on the HD side of CF rims.
    I don't see any reason why a Clyde would be on a 29er anyway. Shitty gearing would rule it out for me unless I was riding nothing but flat, rolling terrain. Not to mention the heavy rolling weight and flimsy nature of 29er wheels.
    6'6" 240lbs here and I couldn't imagine being on a 26" wheel bike.

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