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  1. #1
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    All rounder for a clyde

    hi guys i'm looking for an all rounder capable of doing everything from downhill to cross country. I'm 5 10 and 280lbs i've already got a long travel steel hardtail and am looking to add something full suspension to the stable to keep her happy.
    reccomendations please, as for budget $3500 would be my max at the moment. building up from the frame would be cool as opposed to an off the peg bike, but i'd have to take in to account the component costs in to the budget.

  2. #2
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    blows me away that some of y'all have 3500.00 to spend on a bike...lol. i mean does it REALLY ride that much better? my 250.00 diamond back rides just fine...my 1100.00 fsr rode like a dream...

    disposible income is a wonderful thing i guess...

    happy hunting

    regards

  3. #3
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    hi there well i don't smoke, hell can't remember the last time i had a drink, i don't drive or take expensive holidays, and work damn hard to pay for my toys.

  4. #4
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    Tough call

    I don't think you're going to find what you're looking for. The "XC bike that bombs downhill" just doesn't exist. They are contrary in terms of what they need to be in order to perform their given task. You're not going to find a 6-8" travel bike, with a dual crown fork that will weigh less than 34 lbs and be able to climb hills with any degree of efficiency. I could be way off base here, but hopefully you understand my point. As a compromise, perhaps you should consider a 5 " trail bike/all mountain rig that can handle a little of both. With the budget you've laid out, a Turner 5 Spot, Yeti 575, or Ventana X5 are good places to start. Not sure how your weight factors in, but I'm 250, and all 3 would be OK for my size.

    Just my thoughts.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by kodiak1232003
    blows me away that some of y'all have 3500.00 to spend on a bike...lol.
    Yeah, it seems like a lot of $ to be spending on a bike.

    Quote Originally Posted by kodiak1232003
    i mean does it REALLY ride that much better?
    Yes. Well...maybe. The $3500 bikes I've ridden (I don't own one) rode very nice indeed. A well-designed and better built frame will likely ride very nice relative to a cheaper frame. Certainly the suspension (and other) components (if set up properly) will perform better. The components will likely be stronger and/or lighter (depending on choices) which is important to some.

    For us clydes I think that durability is an important trail in any bike part or frame. And sometimes durability costs a lot of money.

    I think it also depends on the type of riding that you do. If you ride (carefully) on mostly smooth trails and don't jump or drop off of anything, then most decent, low-end bikes will be just fine. When you start getting abusive that's where lesser quality components will be a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by kodiak1232003
    disposible income is a wonderful thing i guess...
    Indeed. I'm trying to find more income that I can dispose of myself.

    Patrick
    Last edited by PCinSC; 06-24-2006 at 11:12 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloater27
    hi guys i'm looking for an all rounder capable of doing everything from downhill to cross country. I'm 5 10 and 280lbs i've already got a long travel steel hardtail and am looking to add something full suspension to the stable to keep her happy.
    reccomendations please, as for budget $3500 would be my max at the moment. building up from the frame would be cool as opposed to an off the peg bike, but i'd have to take in to account the component costs in to the budget.
    With a budget of $3500 there a few all-mountain style frames that could be built up to suit your purposes. I"m in a similar position as you, and here are the ones that I'm considering:

    Turner 5 Pack
    Ventana X-5
    Titus Motolite
    Titus Supermoto
    Knolly Delerium T
    Specialized Enduro
    Specialized Enduro SX Trail

    Check 'em out. Good luck.

    Patrick
    Last edited by PCinSC; 06-24-2006 at 08:29 PM.

  7. #7
    Your bike is incorrigible
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    What are you guys talking about???!

    One word: Heckler!

    Built up right it will be a very good climber and bomb down hills at mach 10.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyechka
    One word: Heckler!

    Built up right it will be a very good climber and bomb down hills at mach 10.
    Yeah, $3500.00 will build up a blinging Heckler in USD. All the high end stuff and it is a great clyde bike.

    The Knolly Delirium frame is around 3K, so good luck building one of those for under $4500.00K, let alone $3500.00, unless you have a bunch of parts already. Turner and Ventana frames are right around $2000.00 and with a decent parts spec, expect to pay $3500.00 at the very least.

    At 280lbs, the rider in question should cross the 575 and Spot off the list. A coil shock is a must and the 575 does not have a coil option. The 5-pack was mentioned, but uses the 5-spot rear end. You need a very strong frame, front to back.

    Some others to check out.

    Santa Cruz Bullit.
    Chumba Evo.
    Versus Blitz.
    Yeti ASX.
    Cannondale Gemini and MX series.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyechka
    One word: Heckler!

    Built up right it will be a very good climber and bomb down hills at mach 10.
    I'm gonna catch slack for this (and maybe rightfully so), but my thought is this: If you're going to spend that much $ on a bike, why get a frame that has the undesirable braking and pedaling characteristics that a single pivot suspension bike like the Heckler has?

    And I know that there are lots (and lots) of riders who are on Hecklers and have no issues and love them and all that. And I know that the frames I listed up above include SP models (although by all accounts the Turners and Ventanas are very well behaved SP's).

    The other thing is, with the upgrades that I'd want, the Heckler is not as cheap as on might initially. Let me put it this way.

    Heckler frame: $1050
    Anodized Finish: $100 (personally, I'd want the more durable finish)
    DHX coil upgrade: $135 (a mandatory upgrade, the stock Float R is useless to a larger clyde)
    Total: $1285

    Another couple of hundred bucks and you've got yourself a Supermoto.

    (Edit: I did that initial calculation off of Speedgoat's numbers. I do see that the frame is available anodized and with a Swinger 4-way coil for around $1000 on the SC website. That actually sounds like a pretty good deal.)

    I realize that I'm bashing the Heckler a bit here, and I also don't have a leg to stand on because I've never even ridden one . But in my searching I've had lots of people (on these forums, other riders on the trail, my LBS) tell me that the Heckler is a great bike. But when pressed, they all say the same thing: there is (occasionally significant) pedal feedback and some brake jack as well. Those are descriptions from those who've ridden the bike, not me.

    And if this bike performs so well, why have I not even seen one in person? Maybe I don't get out enough, but I haven't seen one on my local trails. My LBS, who, when I inquired about the Nomad, told me that the Heckler would be a better choice. But they didn't even have one in stock (and still don't) despite that fact that they are the area's only SC dealer.

    So, for me personally, I'm not sold (at all) on the Heckler. Not that anyone asked or that it's even my thread I just though I'd share my twisted reasoning with the OP.

    Patrick

    BTW: If anyone has a Heckler that I could test ride let me know.
    Last edited by PCinSC; 06-24-2006 at 11:57 AM.

  10. #10
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    I can get an Ano Heckler with a DHX coil, for 1200.00 CDN. Yep, in Canada. I have found two shops that were willing to give me this deal. You can get the same set up in the States for $1050.00, or less, if you look around. If you are told this isn't possible, then someone is blowing smoke up your pie hole. I have seen brand new Hecklers with the 5th element coil for well under 1K. Used Heckler frames in decent shape with a DHX can go as low as $500.00.

    I have a totally different take on the sp vs all of the other systems that claim they are superior. I have owned a Heckler, Ellsworth, Turner, Cannondale, blah, blah, and Imo, it is all a huge, festering, pile of donkey shite propaganda and I am tired of it. If the sp is sooooo crappy, then why are so many people pleased as punch to ride one. Me included. I just came off a Turner HL Pack and I have no problem in stating that I would own a sp again. In fact, I am looking into the Prophet MX and Heckler, right now.

    I have tried almost everything out there right now and there is so much more to a bike than the suspension design. Sure it starts from there, but it is a combination of things that make a great bike. I will be the first to admit that the Heckler has some brake jack and pedal feed back, but it was never a huge issue to me and I never thought it was a serious problem. Even after riding a "superior" suspension system.

    Yeah, sure a HL exhibits better characteristics in braking and pedaling, (ie; only in certain situations) but a solid sp and faux bar come ahead in others as well. I have found the Heckler to accelerate faster than many other bikes. This is can mainly be attributed to the simple design.The handling and flickability of the Heckler is up there with everything I have owned so far. In fact, from my experience, I have not been on a bike in the Heckler's class that matches it for flickability and handling. The geometry is excellent and then there is the versatility factor. Another area where the Heckler is right at the top. Still.

    I say all this with out even owning a Heckler right now. So many people get sucked into the whirling vortex of Manufacturer hype, that they lose sight of what is important in a bike. There is no best design, which is why the simple ones are still selling like hot cakes. (For now, anyways). With that said, many people won't own a simple design, because it is simple, regardless of how well it works. Bike companies clue into this and tell the masses what they want to hear. Put a pivot here, a floating/vpp pivot there, and voila! You are now entitled to buy the best suspension design ever created on a mountain bike. The catch is, there is umpteen companies claiming the same thing. Everyone has a different take on things I guess.

    Personal preference plays a role as well. I feel that the quirks of the Heckler design are a non issue, while others think it is a huge deal. Fair enough. I just don't think the majority of the arguements against sp bikes hold water. Not for my tastes anyways.
    Last edited by ronny; 06-24-2006 at 12:36 PM.

  11. #11
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    Good post. That some valuable, first-hand input right there.

    Quote Originally Posted by ronny
    I have seen brand new Hecklers with the 5th element coil for well under 1K.
    Yeah, the prices I put down are list prices, and I'd expect there to be some type of discount.

    Quote Originally Posted by ronny
    I have owned a Heckler, Ellsworth, Turner, Cannondale, blah, blah, and Imo, it is all a huge, festering, pile of donkey shite propaganda and I am tired of it...So many people get sucked into the whirling vortex of Manufacturer hype, that they lose sight of what is important in a bike. There is no best design, which is why the simple ones are still selling like hot cakes.
    Agreed. Sometimes it's tough to tell where the marketing ends and the rider's opinion begins, because some of the riders are just repeating the company's marketing hyperbole.

    Quote Originally Posted by ronny
    I have found the Heckler to accelerate faster than many other bikes. This is can mainly be attributed to the simple design.The handling and flickability of the Heckler is up there with everything I have owned so far. In fact, from my experience, I have not been on a bike in the Heckler's class that matches it for flickability and handling. The geometry is excellent and then there is the versatility factor. Another area where the Heckler is right at the top. Still.
    It sounds like a good bike (I've heard all these things from others before). I'd definitely like to be able to try one out.

    Patrick

  12. #12
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    Worth a try anyways. You can't go wrong for the money. I can fill you in on some of the negatives as well. Besides the typical sp complaints, one complaint that heavier riders have of the Heckler, is swing arm flex. A common fix is a quality bolt on hub. My Heckler already had a bolt on Hadley, so flex was undetectable. This is one area where I would really like to test the X-5. The overall stiffness of these bikes is said to be very noticeable. I want to try one. BAD.

    From what I have been hearing, the X-5 is the one bike that is very similar or better than the Heckler in the handling and versatility department. This is what I am looking for, but I just can't pull the trigger because of the sticker shock. We get soaked on bike prices in Canada. A two thousand dollar frame becomes $2400.00+ once it crosses the border. Pretty much the same price I paid for a complete demo Six Pack. Madness.

  13. #13
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    howdy all
    im new to this, so, im male. 32, live in northern california, im 6ft and 215 lbs.
    i dont know about all the marketing hype, but i ride a santa cruz superlight with a 5th element air shock, and i like it fine. i climb hills, do drops, but nothing too extreme. i think what you ride is far less important than *that* you ride... have a good one

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloater27
    hi there well i don't smoke, hell can't remember the last time i had a drink, i don't drive or take expensive holidays, and work damn hard to pay for my toys.
    you know, thats what i was thinking over the past few days, that if one only has a few outlets and decent job, the amount wouldn't be so overwhelming...lol

    i personally am leaking like a colander at this point, so more power to you.

  15. #15
    tch
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    I'm 6'2 / 220 and recently began riding a 05 Reign 2. 6" of nice plush travel and a fantastic climbing bike. With $3500 you could up grade to the Reign 1 and still fit a trip in somewhere to huck around your new ride . My only complaint/upgrade on my 05 is the Nixon fork. I'll either switch it out or get their heaviest spring. I'm also putting an 8" rotor on the front before my trip to Whistler.

    Good luck

  16. #16
    lover not a fighter
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    two words: Heck-ler

  17. #17
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    I'm 6 and 210lbs, I ride with a lot of extra junk like extra water so I'm around 240 on longer rides.

    I'm on a Chumba EVO and this baby is butter smooth and supper stiff....yet it climbs like a goat. It also handles rough tight turns and high speed runs equally well.

    They have a build kit for around 3000 and that's one *****ING ride! Gotta look into this one!

  18. #18
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    Oh forgot to sya the Chumba is all MADE IN THE USA......actually it's made right here in OC!

    Awesome stuff!

  19. #19
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    Specialized enduro or any other enduro style bike. Big travel with XC characteristics.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by FatTire
    howdy all
    im new to this, so, im male. 32, live in northern california, im 6ft and 215 lbs.
    i dont know about all the marketing hype, but i ride a santa cruz superlight with a 5th element air shock, and i like it fine. i climb hills, do drops, but nothing too extreme. i think what you ride is far less important than *that* you ride... have a good one
    I cannot beleive someone sold you a SuperLight- what did you weigh when you bought it? I would think no salesman (other than a commissioned one) would put a 200+ pound person on a SL.
    Glad you like it though!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by kodiak1232003
    you know, thats what i was thinking over the past few days, that if one only has a few outlets and decent job, the amount wouldn't be so overwhelming...lol

    i personally am leaking like a colander at this point, so more power to you.
    He also might not live in San Diego, which I know from experience keeps you from saving any $$$.
    Enjoy the bay, and make sure you ride what is left of flightline.
    Oh I miss the PB beach and the OB atmosphere.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCinSC

    For us clydes I think that durability is an important trail in any bike part or frame. And sometimes durability costs a lot of money.
    Durability is everything - that is the difference between a $300 frame and a $2k frame.

  23. #23
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    Good job! Cannondale Gemini

    If "all rounder" includes the occasional trip to a downhill bike park and/or some "extreme" freeriding, check out the Gemini.

    I'm a BIG rider too (6'6" 270lbs), and find it is the perfect do-everything bike...strong enough to handle the Whistler Bike Park with a clyde on board, versitile and light enough to ride the occasional XC endurance race on it.

    See my response to this post:
    Prophet 2 MX vs. Gemini 900

    With your budget you can surly afford a more impressive build than my mostly stock 900 (not that there is anything wrong with it...best bang for the buck I think!). I have no doubt with the right components you could build a Gemini to meet whatever riding needs you might have.

    sh0rty :P

  24. #24
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    The Enduro's are tricky. A buddy of mine is 215 and the rear shock is almost maxed out. It's set with 270psi. The other adj. were made to feel good, but there's not much more to do as far as preload. Fahn

  25. #25
    Your bike is incorrigible
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronny
    Worth a try anyways. You can't go wrong for the money. I can fill you in on some of the negatives as well. Besides the typical sp complaints, one complaint that heavier riders have of the Heckler, is swing arm flex. A common fix is a quality bolt on hub. My Heckler already had a bolt on Hadley, so flex was undetectable. This is one area where I would really like to test the X-5. The overall stiffness of these bikes is said to be very noticeable. I want to try one. BAD.

    From what I have been hearing, the X-5 is the one bike that is very similar or better than the Heckler in the handling and versatility department. This is what I am looking for, but I just can't pull the trigger because of the sticker shock. We get soaked on bike prices in Canada. A two thousand dollar frame becomes $2400.00+ once it crosses the border. Pretty much the same price I paid for a complete demo Six Pack. Madness.
    And this is where the extra cash enters: the clyde worthy components spec. I would never buy a built up Heckler for the simple reason that I'd end up having to replace everything within a year. $500 for Hadleys on 321s, Thomson seatpost and stem, RF Atlas cranks. These are my requirements, and these are going to bring the cost up substantially. But you would know with the Heckler that you're getting a durable frame and good shock. That's a base you can be comfortable knowing it won't give up on you no matter what other components you bang on it.

    Look, I consider that with $3500 the frame should cost around $1000. You can actually do a deal with Santa Cruz where you get the frame, choice of shock and choice of forks. That might be a little better. Still, I would not go with their spec for the wheelset, stem, bars, seatpost, cranks.

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