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  1. #1
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    ... and if we just ... Subaru outback or VW Jetta Wagon TDI?

    Im in the market for a new car, Im looking at Subaru outbacks and the VW Jetta Wagon. I really Like the TDI the jetta offers, but the outback is 4-wheel drive. I live in south Florida and my job requires me to do alot of driving, Right now I have a SUV and the gas milage is Killing me. NOT LOOKING TO MAKE ANTI SUV RANT....PLEASE DON'T START. If anyone has any experience with these cars please let me know.

  2. #2
    Demon Cleaner
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    You probably already know this, but the VW TDI has a very active aftermarket crowd. Some Google searchs will probably find some of their forums. In particular, I understand that they are increasing the turbo boost to get something like 140hp while still getting over 40 miles per gallon.

    I don't own one, so this is just what I read when I was also looking into one.
    Bicycling is politics by other means.

  3. #3
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    Yeah, I have been reading on vwvortex.com about them.
    Thanks

  4. #4
    Still chuggin' along
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    I can't say anything about the Subaru but we have a '97 Jetta GL (they didn't have the TDI at the time) that has about 110K mile on it and its still going strong. TONS of trunk space! I've never seen a "small" car with that much space and still be comfortable in the back seat. I can fit my bike back there w/o taking the wheel off- I have a 15" frame though.

    My husband drives about 55 miles/day to and from work and fills up the tank every 7 or 8 days. He's love to have the TDI for his commute!

    But, we really love it and he's planning on getting a Passat later this year b/c we like the Jetta so much.

    Cheers,
    Kristina

  5. #5
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    Man...
    I don't know, I would think you're on the verge of going bigger...

    Audi A4 or S4 Avant.
    -or-
    Audi Allroad

    Don't discount this bad boy either:
    Volvo V70R 300hp.

    My comments on the VW Jetta are it absurdly tiny rear seat and lack of rear leg room. I was looking at that car as a sedan and was blown away. I ended up getting a Volvo 850R. Volvo>VW.

    Also, check out the Volvo V50.
    Last edited by ; 01-18-2004 at 07:34 PM.

  6. #6
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    Can't see where AWD is going to do you a whole lot of good in SoFla. The real advantage is in snow country.
    Zippy for president

  7. #7
    dispensing truthiness
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    agree

    Quote Originally Posted by wooglin-at-home
    Can't see where AWD is going to do you a whole lot of good in SoFla. The real advantage is in snow country.
    Yeah, 4WD in Florida? Why?

    FWIW, I like Subaru's and have had mixed experiences with VW's.

  8. #8
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    The reason for the 4wheel drive in florida is that Im a new construction home inspector. Some time I have to go down some not so great roads.

  9. #9
    Demon Cleaner
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    None of them have a transfer case, or much ground clearance, so I wouldn't want to "really" use them off road. I've always found that fwd worked fine, even in muddy or sandy conditions. Takes a bit of thought. But works. In super slick mud it isn't hard to get stuck even with AWD. Do any of them have locking differentials?

    I'd want a reall 4x4 if I was going to have to go offroad/sand/mud. Maybe a four door Toyota or Nissan pickup.

    But then I'd rather have a Forester or Jetta TDI for on road and use my bike off road!
    Bicycling is politics by other means.

  10. #10
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    Consumer reports rates these cars equally high overall. They give the VW higher marks for fit and finish if body panels and interior trim. They give the Outback higher marks for interior space. I drive an old '96 Outback for a work truck. I really abuse it and the suspension at 145,00 mi. is just as stiff as ever. AWD is very useful to me at work (residential construction) and biking (Chattahoochee national forests). My personal opinion is that the Outback will suit you better if you use the vehicle at work. However, if your not in a hurry you might wait till late summer when 2005 models become available. Ford is introducing a larger AWD wagon called the Freestyle, and Mazda has a wagon based on the Mazda6 sedan. Check out coverage of the 2004 Detroit auto show.

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  11. #11
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    I say you can't go wrong either way. I have a '96 GTi and an '87 Jetta, both with a zillion miles, and they both are solid cars. I have many buds with Subies (frickin hippies and they are all thrilled with them. My opinion is that the Jetta is more capable on-road than the Subie. VW just has their act together when it comes to handling and railing in corners. Gobs or torque, and where you need it, in the low band of the RPM range. IMO, the VW stuff sings on the road to me in a way that Asian cars do not, Subies included.

    That said, reliability tends to be better on the Subies. VWs have more issues, but not so many that I'd steer you away from them. VW motors tend to go for high mileage and stay tight. I'm up to 126k on the GTi, over 220k on the Jetta, and my old Scirocco had 310k before I sold it. All still going strong.

    Subie's AWD is a nice system, but consider that you have to drag an extra 400 lbs of AWD gear with you at all times, dragging on your car's efficinency. Real world Subies tend to get around 25-26 MPG, which is a lot of gas for a small car. The gas Jetta gets closer to 30 MPG. I wonder how the new 6 speed manual fares?

    Also the Diesel VWs, as most diesels, spew a lot of pollution compared to Gas. OTOH, you use 40% less fuel to begin with.

    I'm considering the same issue myself. The old beater Jetta needs to be retired at some point, and I'm still drooling over having AWD capabilities in a good street car, or getting the same old sameold I've been buying since I was 16. I really dig the way VW puts cars together, but something that handles mud and snow, and still handles on an on-ramp carosel really appeals to me. I can learn to live with the lack of refinement in the looks of the Subie, but the Jetta is soooo attractive, especially with the sport package with 17" wheels.....tastey!

    So, sorry, I'm no help! I'm split too!

  12. #12
    Witty McWitterson
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    So what it comes down to is this: Do you REALLY need the AWD of the Subie? I'd suspect maybe not. FWD cars can be surprisingly capable on gravel, you just gotta be careful and precise.

    And this comes from a two Subie family. Like many here, we'll be looking soon, and the TDi is a strong contender. Boosting the boost to get 140hp is certainly appealing too...I'll have to look into that one!
    Just a regular guy.

  13. #13
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    ... and if we just ...

    Thanks for all your help...Im just going to keep on reading and doing my Pros and Cons for now.

  14. #14
    tl1
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    Having mucho experience with VWs among friends and myself I'd advise getting an extended warranty for as long as you are likely to own it if you decide to get it. They almost always have issues that can get very expensive if not warranteed. The VW is probably a nicer driving road car though.

    I don't know many people with Subarus but among those that have them they don't have many breakdowns and are very happy with them.

  15. #15
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    Wink Any way you slice it.....

    Quote Originally Posted by airbag
    Im in the market for a new car, Im looking at Subaru outbacks and the VW Jetta Wagon. I really Like the TDI the jetta offers, but the outback is 4-wheel drive. I live in south Florida and my job requires me to do alot of driving, Right now I have a SUV and the gas milage is Killing me. NOT LOOKING TO MAKE ANTI SUV RANT....PLEASE DON'T START. If anyone has any experience with these cars please let me know.
    The Outback is a great CAR. My wife (aka Spike) has had hers for almost 4 years now. It's been very reliable, gets great mileage and is great for hauling all the stuff associated with outdoor activities. She has a hitch mount rack for the bikes and lately we've just been throwing the skis in the back when we go XC. You cannot beat the AWD system on Subarus either. The car handles the road like it's on rails. Very sure footed. I've had a V-Dub in the past and they're well made cars. To me, the Outback is more geared to outdoor activities. I wouldn't mind getting one some day, but the his and hers Outbacks in the driveway might look a bit too cutesie.

  16. #16
    Jed Peters
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    If you get a subaru, get either the 6 cylinder model or a stick. The 4-auto is simply gutless.

    I've owned both a GL (1988) and a VW Jetta ('97) and the Jetta has been more reliable (knock on wood.)

    When I lived in Tahoe and Montana, the Subaru was key. In FL, no reason to get a 4wd IMHO.

  17. #17
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    Having had two VW's, a 93 Corrado SLC and 96 Jetta GLX I doubt I would ever buy a VW again. They were nice cars and super fun but honestly, their reliability was less than impressive. They had all sorts of failures in stupid little things, then all sorts of electrical problems and overall were just a maintenance nightmare. In 2002 I decided to buy a Subaru Impreza and so far I have been loving it. I drive about 60 miles to work, the car has almost 40,000 miles on it already and has not even given the slightest problem so so far so good.
    As far as the driving goes I honestly prefer the feel of the subaru. It feels more stable at high speed than the Jetta, definately corners better, and the AWD makes a noticeable difference particularly in wet roads. After driving an AWD car I would definately consider it a strong point for any other car I buy in the future.

  18. #18
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    Most definitely......

    Quote Originally Posted by Zonic Man
    If you get a subaru, get either the 6 cylinder model or a stick. The 4-auto is simply gutless.

    I've owned both a GL (1988) and a VW Jetta ('97) and the Jetta has been more reliable (knock on wood.)

    When I lived in Tahoe and Montana, the Subaru was key. In FL, no reason to get a 4wd IMHO.
    The only knock I have against Spike's car is it is a tad gutless. She doesn't have a heavy foot like me, so it doesn't bother her. If I were to get one a few years ago (before the 6 cylinder), I would have got the manual tranny. The 6-banger is definitely a better choice I've heard. I really should test drive one. There is a dealership here in town which has an "obstacle course" for you to try in an industrial area. When Spike bought her car, I got to try one out and I couldn't believe the things he was letting us drive over and through. He had me hitting potholes at high speed, going over curbs without slowing down, and climbing some very steep hills. It was great fun.

  19. #19
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    Airbag, it sounds like you've had your fill of opinions, but now that you've created the best Subaru forum on the net you have an obligation to inform us of what you decide to buy. Good luck man.

  20. #20
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    yeah Will let everyone Know what I end up with, and thanks again for all the great post.

  21. #21
    Jm.
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    The HS3.0 is definitely not gutless. It has lots of torque and if you are driving along you gotta be carefull with the gas because too much will cause you to rocket forward when it downshifts. Definitely not in a lethargic fasion. I've also driven the 4cyl ones as well, and like zonic says, there's not much too it.

    I agree with most people though, AWD is virtually a necessity in some areas, while in others you might as well save the gas because it will never really help you. In many places a good FWD, maybe with some traction control like I have, is all you'll never need. It'll get through some pretty nasty icy/snowy conditions as well. True AWD is greatly superior, but unless you get a lot of snow, have a lot of hills to go up and down, have completely ice-over roads, it's not needed.

  22. #22
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    I wish I got 25-26mpg on my 2000 Outback...

    ... but it's more like 22-25 when I drive "normally." It can get a little better if I don't, oh, I don't know, use the gas pedal to accelerate, and can get a lot worse when packing four guys and bikes. It is awesome in the snow and on fireroads, though. I'm glad I have it this winter.

    I don't know for a fact, but I've heard the TDI motors burn as clean as gasoline motors, and the gas milage is great. Since my Outback is pretty damn slow, I can't imagine the TDI is dramatically slower.

    Bottom line: Can you fit four guys, their bikes and their gear comfortably in the TDI wagon, and do you need to do so? You can, in fact, do this with the Outback.

  23. #23
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    Sort of had both...

    I had a Passat TDI (a '97, I think) and it was nothing but trouble. That was back in the day of the 2 year/24k mile warranty. Things went south about 2 weeks after I hit 24k. Too much to list but I got out of the lease early. I would hope that they have worked the bugs out by now but people really seem to love or hate VWs.

    My next car was a 2001 Outback wagon. Loved it so much my wife got one too. Around 30k, I smelled maple syrup. Smelled it a few weeks later on my wife's car (she was around 25k. Turns out both cars needed the head gaskets replaced. After that happened, we both ditched the cars.

    I have 13k on a 2003 4Runner SportEdition V8 and she has about 3k on a 2004 Highlander V6 AWD. We love both of them so far.

  24. #24
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    didn't you get an MB wagon?

    Maintenance intensive, but cool. I was hot on a 300TE for a year, but the maintenance has since scared me away.

  25. #25
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    Love My VDC

    I've put over 50,000 miles on my 2002 Subaru VDC since I got it in July of 2002. Solid 90 mph cruising under most highway conditions. The H6 motor has lots of power, and the easily accessible 3rd gear helps keep the revs up. It's definitely a compromise between off-road and highway. Feels a bit harsh in the dirt, and a bit squishy when cornering hard on the road. But it's been a good compromise for me. Like a lot of Subaru owners, my next car will probably be a Subaru, too.

    John
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  26. #26
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    Looks good,
    Thanks
    John

  27. #27
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    Had a 300TE 4Matic...

    and it was too much to keep up. The body and frame were in near-showroom condition but I ended up putting too much into it. Sold it for what I got if for but had put in over 4 grand in 6 months! Hoping for 250K on the Toyota!

  28. #28
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    My new car 2003 Subaru Wagon

    Looking for information. I purchased a 2003 Outback wagn and I love it. But, at 1400 miles the roaters warped and I needed new pads all the way around. Dealer claims it's my fault but they would go ahead and turn the roaters and put on new pads. I was upset but I let them do it. I felt I should get new roaters. I don't abuse the car I'm a 45 female conservative driver. Anyways, now I;m having trouble with the car starting when it's cold outside. I live in SO CAL so it's not that cold. Even happens when the car is in the garage over night. Does anyone have any info for me?

  29. #29
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    First off, I'd try an automotive site, not an MTB site.

    Your rotors should not have problems at 1400 mi. unless you were riding the brakes the entire time.

    I have a '97 Outback that starts fine even in -20F conditions (not garaged, either).

  30. #30
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    Warped Rotors

    My rotors warped almost immediately after I bought the car. The dealer replaced the pads and resurfaced the rotors under warranty. If your car is still under warranty, I think the dealer should have done the same for you. But they don't really need to be replaced. Resurfacing will be fine. Since my rotors were resurfaced I've been careful not to come to a full stop when they might be very hot. In other words, I stop leaving a little room to roll, then I roll forward a couple of times. Stopping and keeping the brakes on when the rotors are hot is one of the main things that can cause your rotors to warp. However, I've heard enough about warped Suby rotors that I think it might be inherent in the design or a QA problem. It's not that big of a deal to me considering the overall quality of the car.

    My car doesn't like the cold either. I live in Northern California and sometimes on cold mornings it's not very happy. That may have to do with California emissions or tuning because there are certainly plenty of people driving Subarus in climates a lot colder than where you or I live.

    Hope that helps.
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  31. #31
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    In addition to the 140hp as advertised you mustn't forget the stump-pulling torque that the aftermarket will yield for the TDI. We have a guy locally that got over 150 hp and 275 lb/ft of torque (at the wheels!!). We're talking John Deere levels here!

    The Jetta is nearing the end of its model cycle and as such has ironed out most of the glitches since its introduction. If as you say your job involves mucho driving I would think that the Jetta will really pay for itself in convenience (less time at the pump) and economy. The TDI's also hold their resale better than the gas engined ones. Either way you can't go wrong - the subie is a great vehicle also. If you want a bit of extra room you may want to wait and see if any of your local vw dealers get the new Passat TDI in. It has the 2.0 litre gasser engine in it and will probably have more cojones as a consequence.

    I'll admit to being a bit of a VW fanboy - I love my 1.8t Passat wagon and vwvortex is my home from home.

  32. #32
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    Cool-blue Rhythm Subaru WRX and I get better than 27

    I have a subaru wrx and just drove it too wyoming this weekend from boise and averaged 27 mpg through snow and over a mountain pass. Overall I have been very happy with my car.

    If you want a fun car get the wrx, it will dust the vw no problems. This car is great for driving on a lot of dirt fs roads out west.

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  33. #33
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    I've owned a TDI for over two years now, and am almost at 78000kms. First thing, forget about vwvortex.com and head to tdiclub.com for all the info you want to know about TDI cars.

    I too looked at the Suby before I bought. The gas mileage on the Suby was quite a bit worse since it runs on gas, its heavier and has AWD. Also, the fit and finish of the MK4 Jetta's and Golf is simply superior than the plastic feel of the Subies I was looking at. Think German and Audi trickly down.

    I ski a lot and drive lousy road to places like Mt Baker under heavy snow. With snow tires, and front wheel drive and a 5sp manual, I never have a problem getting where I need to go.

    The TDI have greater NOX emissions, but half the carbon monoxide emissions of gasers. They use much less fuel and can be run on biodiesel unmodified if you want to run them on a renewable fuel source.

    The Audi A4 and S4 share the same size rear seat area as Jetta wagon. Golf has a little more rear head room than all of these.

    The 2004 Jetta gets the newer, gutsier PD TDI engine with added horsepower and torque. There's fewer mod's available for this engine compared to the ALH engine, but that just a matter of time (euro's have had PD's for years now).

    There's a TDI Passat coming back to North America in 04/05. Its got a more powerful engine than Jetta, but is only available with auto tranny. Also, Jeep Liberty diesel 2.5L is coming to N.American for an upgrade of $2000, and gets 25mpg (the gaser gets 18mpg).
    So if you need more space than the Jetta wagon, consider the Passat.

    2005/06 we're likely to see an Audi A4 TDI like the euros have already. Obviously this will be at least 10K more than a Jetta so may not be your answer either.

    Lots of TDI enthustiasts are out there, so you've got a great resource network for help. They are easy to work on and are lower maintenance than gas engines. They have more torque for the HP and hence really fun to drive in normal road conditions (ie there's no autobahn in N.American for top-end performance). The TDI engine will last well beyond 400,000km and you cost of ownership will be very low per km.

    The diesels do take longer to warm up, so if you live in a cold area and only do trips less than 10min for 90% of your driving, I recommend you buy the Subaru instead.

    Hope this helps,
    Mike

  34. #34
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    Resurfaced? You got jacked! I'd have made them replace them. You're going to have to replace them sooner now, since they had to cut off a ton of metal to get them even, and you're not going to have to deal with it until it's out of warranty. Jacked I say.

  35. #35
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    ... and if we just ...

    Mike,

    Thanks for the infor I will be reading all I can to get more info before I get a car...Im very much for the TDI. I had a vr6 a few years ago and Loved it, but I just had to have more room, it was a GTI. Thanks again for the Post.

  36. #36
    Back of the pack fat guy
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    Just one more....

    Quote Originally Posted by airbag
    Im in the market for a new car, Im looking at Subaru outbacks and the VW Jetta Wagon. I really Like the TDI the jetta offers, but the outback is 4-wheel drive. I live in south Florida and my job requires me to do alot of driving, Right now I have a SUV and the gas milage is Killing me. NOT LOOKING TO MAKE ANTI SUV RANT....PLEASE DON'T START. If anyone has any experience with these cars please let me know.
    Since I've got a 2002 Outback and two friends with VW's, I'll put my belated $.02 in. If you want style at the risk of less-than-stellar reliability, get the Jetta. If you want a decent, reliable car that's not too fast and not too flashy, does nothing great, but does everything very well, get the Outback. Before I got my Outback, I drove a 1995 Grand Cherokee with the 4.0L six. Underpowered, cramped interior, unreliable, and it guzzled gas like, well, an SUV. My Outback has more storage area, more passenger seating area, better handling, about the same acceleration, but gets about 50% better mileage. I've put 21K miles on mine (my commute is almost 40 miles a day) of mixed highway, around town, and fire road driving, and the only "problem" I've had to have warranteed was the rubber seal around the driver's side window. I average 22 - 25 mpg, but I admit that I have a lead foot. My friends with VWs (one has a 2000 Passat and the other has a 2001 Jetta) literally can't keep them out of the dealer's repair shop. But, here's the best part - brand spankin' new off the dealer lot, with the upgraded stereo, winter package (that includes heated seats and a limited slip rear diff), and the 4 cyl automatic, I paid a grand total of....$21,900. I'm sorry, but there is no better value in any vehicle of its kind out there. So, long story short - if you value substance over style, get the outback!!
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  37. #37
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    Nice looking car! But you've only got 21K on it- its still a baby and to say "if you value substance over style, get the outback!!" smacks of "car snobbery" . Every vehicle has its issues, pluses and minuses. We've got a '97 Jetta with 110K and the ONLY time its in the shop is for regular maintenance and the one time I got rear-ended. I can't say the same for my Windstar that only has 50K and has something weird going on everytime I turn around. We certainly didn't choose the Jetta over the Outback for its "style" (the Outback has better style in my book, anyway). The Outback, for the same minimal features was 10K more and repair parts and costs on the whole were more expensive. At the time, it was not a good buy-maybe things have changed since '97, but somehow I don't think repairs costs for the Subaru have gotten any cheaper.

    Anyway, my point is, they are both fantastic cars and whichever one fits his needs the best, is the one he should be getting.

    Cheers,
    Kristina

    P.S. and what's with the guy in the background?

  38. #38
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    Jacked

    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Eddy
    Resurfaced? You got jacked! I'd have made them replace them. You're going to have to replace them sooner now, since they had to cut off a ton of metal to get them even, and you're not going to have to deal with it until it's out of warranty. Jacked I say.

    I KNOW! I tried and they told me no way. Depending what they tell me today when I pick my car up I will be writing a letter to Subaru. This is one of the rare times in a womans life when she wishes she was a man.

  39. #39
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    Good point

    I hadn't thought about it that way. Thanks for making me feel bad. Dick.
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  40. #40
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    If it's a dead toss up between the 2...

    ... I'd say go spend a few minutes in each dealer. Check out the service department. See what the labor rate is, how clean the shop is, if they have loaner cars, etc. Then ask for prices on a few common maintenence parts like brake pads, tune-up stuff, blah, blah.
    Convince me

  41. #41
    Jm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bugs8
    I KNOW! I tried and they told me no way. Depending what they tell me today when I pick my car up I will be writing a letter to Subaru. This is one of the rare times in a womans life when she wishes she was a man.
    Believe it or not, writing a letter to them can do a lot of good. My brother totaled one of my parents foresters(yes, plural) (but it was a POS anyway), and my parents wrote them a letter thanking them for making it so secure and strong(he rolled it down a hill into trees). Subaru wrote back and said that when we negotiate the price of a new subaru, at any time we choose, to call them up after negotiating the price and that they'd give us an additional few thousand off the price. Pretty cool juju there.
    I know in my heart that Ellsworth bikes are more durable by as much as double. AND they are all lighter...Tony Ellsworth

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpicha
    Nice looking car! But you've only got 21K on it- its still a baby and to say "if you value substance over style, get the outback!!" smacks of "car snobbery" . Every vehicle has its issues, pluses and minuses. We've got a '97 Jetta with 110K and the ONLY time its in the shop is for regular maintenance and the one time I got rear-ended. I can't say the same for my Windstar that only has 50K and has something weird going on everytime I turn around. We certainly didn't choose the Jetta over the Outback for its "style" (the Outback has better style in my book, anyway). The Outback, for the same minimal features was 10K more and repair parts and costs on the whole were more expensive. At the time, it was not a good buy-maybe things have changed since '97, but somehow I don't think repairs costs for the Subaru have gotten any cheaper.

    Anyway, my point is, they are both fantastic cars and whichever one fits his needs the best, is the one he should be getting.

    Cheers,
    Kristina

    P.S. and what's with the guy in the background?
    1. Today, a Jetta TDI Wagon is at least as expensive as the 4 cylinder Outback, if not more, and it doesn't have the AWD and it has less cargo room. As for repair costs, I suppose that VW owners know much more about repairs and costs than Subaru owners!
    2. That's funny that you would state that someone who bought a $22K new car is snobby. It's a documented fact that Subarus are generally more reliable than VWs. If you want, I'll cite you to the 2004 Consumer Reports Buyer's guide. So, does it make me snobby to buy an affordable, efficient, reliable car? If so, guilty as charged. VW seems to be cornering the market on snob appeal recently with the Touareg ($48,000) and the Phaeton ($77,000).
    3. Michael, in the background, is clearly not normal, but we hang out with him anyway. He has that appeal kind of like when you slow down to look at a car wreck - scary, and you're glad it's not you!

  43. #43
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    Points well taken. I haven't been car shopping in that category since we bought the Jetta so i guess I shouldn't be surprised that things have changed. We must be in the minority in having a trouble free one. Ours was made in Canada and apparently the ones made in Mexico are the ones that don't have as good a record.

    I hope you didn't think I was actually calling you a snob! I think of Outback owners as adventerous types-certainly not snobs! Now, BMW owners, that's another story I think what irked me was the implication that Jetta owners who chose that over the Outback were superficial. Don't know why I took that personally - I guess I hadn't had my morning dose of caffeine so I wasn't thinking clearly I'll agree with you on the Tourag and Phaeton! Whew, I had no idea they were that expensive!

    Um, I think I'll pass on the third issue

    Thanks for the dialogue!
    Cheers,
    Kristina

  44. #44
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    got imba?

    Quote Originally Posted by airbag
    Im in the market for a new car, Im looking at Subaru outbacks and the VW Jetta Wagon. I really Like the TDI the jetta offers, but the outback is 4-wheel drive. I live in south Florida and my job requires me to do alot of driving, Right now I have a SUV and the gas milage is Killing me. NOT LOOKING TO MAKE ANTI SUV RANT....PLEASE DON'T START. If anyone has any experience with these cars please let me know.
    hey guy, if you have been a member of IMBA for at least 6 months, you can get a subaru for a discount. I have been looking at these exact 2 cars. The TDI will not be sold in CA and MA (I am from MA) for 2004 due to emissions. I decided not to get it because it's tough finding mechanics that know the TDI. It's got a cult following for sure. I am just not that into cars. Basically, check if the dealers know the TDI, if so, it could be good. If not, I have heard of people having a tough time of it even getting oil changes done properly!
    Only boring people get bored.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earthpig
    Why on earth would you obscure the license plate number when posting that picture to the web?

  46. #46
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    we're on the same page

    Quote Originally Posted by kpicha
    Points well taken. I haven't been car shopping in that category since we bought the Jetta so i guess I shouldn't be surprised that things have changed. We must be in the minority in having a trouble free one. Ours was made in Canada and apparently the ones made in Mexico are the ones that don't have as good a record.

    I hope you didn't think I was actually calling you a snob! I think of Outback owners as adventerous types-certainly not snobs! Now, BMW owners, that's another story I think what irked me was the implication that Jetta owners who chose that over the Outback were superficial. Don't know why I took that personally - I guess I hadn't had my morning dose of caffeine so I wasn't thinking clearly I'll agree with you on the Tourag and Phaeton! Whew, I had no idea they were that expensive!

    Um, I think I'll pass on the third issue

    Thanks for the dialogue!
    Cheers,
    Kristina
    I priced out the Jetta TDI wagon on the web, spec'ed like my Outback and it came to $23,208. I guess that's perhaps $1000 or so cheaper than a full price Outback, so you got me there on price. As for the "snob" comment, I admit I was a little harsh on the VW owners, because VWs are nice cars, but I'm a reliability geek and probably a little too married to the Consumer Reports. In fact, when my wife bought her Volvo wagon, I actually tried to talk her into at least test driving the Passat wagon, but she was not into it. Personally, if I was going to spend over $25K (but less than $30k) on a mid-size all-wheel-drive wagon, I'd choose the VW Passat "4 motion" wagon over the Outback H6. But, if the choice is only between the FWD Jetta TDI and the AWD 4 cyl Outback, the Outback is a better buy.

    (Personally, I'm waiting to see the 250 hp Legacy GT that's supposed to come out next year...and BTW, the guy grabbing his sack in the picture also drives a Subaru wagon! )

  47. #47
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    dunno

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete
    Why on earth would you obscure the license plate number when posting that picture to the web?
    Frankly, I dunno. I've always done that. I picked it up off the Jeep sites I used lurk on when I had my ZJ.

  48. #48
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    (Personally, I'm waiting to see the 250 hp Legacy GT that's supposed to come out next year...and BTW, the guy grabbing his sack in the picture also drives a Subaru wagon! )[/QUOTE]
    Oh yeah, that should be nice!

    LOL! i was going to say something snide about that second comment but I'll bite my tongue

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  50. #50
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    Cool-blue Rhythm Subaru Outback or VW Jetta Wagon TDI

    Quote Originally Posted by airbag
    Im in the market for a new car, Im looking at Subaru outbacks and the VW Jetta Wagon. I really Like the TDI the jetta offers, but the outback is 4-wheel drive. I live in south Florida and my job requires me to do alot of driving, Right now I have a SUV and the gas milage is Killing me. NOT LOOKING TO MAKE ANTI SUV RANT....PLEASE DON'T START. If anyone has any experience with these cars please let me know.

    Speaking strickly for Subies. I just got the wrx wagon. It is a nice little car (fast as hell). I took it to mammoth the sameday I got it from the dealership. I live in the OC/LA Co area. It handdle 2 feet of snow way better than most SUV's. Im not much into cars but the only two things that I have read on some of the forums for Subaru owner are these: 1 Gas milage; mine is about 300 mpt. Mind you Im always doing 80mph and do comute about 80 miles from/to work everyday. 2 Tranny; Not from personal experience I have read of some peope having problems with their Subaru's, but this is due to abuse and modifications. Not knowing much of VW's I could not say anything negative about them. Over all I love my Suby and would not hesitate to purchase another one. Hey the Forester come with Turbo now days. If you are going to get a Subaru I would suggest you get the Forester as supposed to the Outback. Forester has more room, more power under the hood and more road clearance. I dont think you could go wrong with an Subaru but good luck with whatever car you end up buying.

  51. #51
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    i just bought my first vw...actually my second (i owned a 72 vw bug for a week once). i bought an 03 gti 1.8 turbo. pretty decent little car. very nice interior. the seats are awesome. but i think if i had it to do over again i might have bought the wrx wagon. due mainly to the utility of it and the fourwheel drive. also they look terrific with bikes on the roof.

    my only gripes with the vw are a couple of mystery rattles and a sunroof that went insane on me shortly after purchasing it. i opened it just a crack and it opened all the way and then would not shut. i messed with it for about ten minutes and it finally shut and has gone crazy again (though the car only has 4000 miles on it). that glimpse of an electrical gremlin spooked me a bit though.

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    Considered a Forester?

    You may also want to consider a forester. I'm not sure if its roomier than the outback but it does look to be and looks like it has more ground clearance also.
    Why consider it? The 2.5L turbo 4cyl.

    Pros:
    -should get better mileage during cruisng (I have not verified) cuz you'll not be working the turbo and only have 2.5L of engine to fill with gas vs 3.0L.
    -210hp, 235ft lbs. Turbo is great for hill work, but not an issue in your case.
    -got that "turbo kick" that pushes you back into your seat.

    Cons:
    -got that "turbo kick" that is sometimes considered a laggy engine or gutless below certain rpms (usually 3000rpm) if you are used to driving a v6/v8. Certainly a small price to pay imo.
    -turbos live a happy life on Synthetic motor oil (roughly 2x more expensive than standard oil)
    -turbos need a cool down period (1-3 minutes) after hard driving or long drives (I've seen mine glowing red in the darkness of my garage although not a subaru).

    with that said, I've never driven or owned a subaru. One of my friends bought a 04 wrx and its a ULEV vehicle...as a consequence, they've programmed the ecu to pull timing at the most crucial point, when one needs it in a full throttle/passing/merging situation. my friend has noticed roughly a 2 second delay when he steps on the gas pedal firmly untill the car actually starts accelerating. Definitely try before you buy as this only affects the 04 models.

    good luck,

    -Sp

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by SinglePivot
    You may also want to consider a forester. I'm not sure if its roomier than the outback but it does look to be and looks like it has more ground clearance also.
    Why consider it? The 2.5L turbo 4cyl.

    Pros:
    -should get better mileage during cruisng (I have not verified) cuz you'll not be working the turbo and only have 2.5L of engine to fill with gas vs 3.0L.
    -210hp, 235ft lbs. Turbo is great for hill work, but not an issue in your case.
    -got that "turbo kick" that pushes you back into your seat.

    Cons:
    -got that "turbo kick" that is sometimes considered a laggy engine or gutless below certain rpms (usually 3000rpm) if you are used to driving a v6/v8. Certainly a small price to pay imo.
    -turbos live a happy life on Synthetic motor oil (roughly 2x more expensive than standard oil)
    -turbos need a cool down period (1-3 minutes) after hard driving or long drives (I've seen mine glowing red in the darkness of my garage although not a subaru).

    with that said, I've never driven or owned a subaru. One of my friends bought a 04 wrx and its a ULEV vehicle...as a consequence, they've programmed the ecu to pull timing at the most crucial point, when one needs it in a full throttle/passing/merging situation. my friend has noticed roughly a 2 second delay when he steps on the gas pedal firmly untill the car actually starts accelerating. Definitely try before you buy as this only affects the 04 models.

    good luck,

    -Sp
    the 3.0 has 212hp, and probably at least as much torque. Thing is, turbos kick in at a certain RPM, and they definitely suck gas down. The torque for the 3.0 H6 will undoubtedly be better in the low-range(where the turbo isn't working). I've driven the HS 3.0 legacy Outback(l.l. bean model), and it is definitely a great car. Lots of torque and you better be ready for when it downshifts, because it usually takes off.

    I've also driven the forester extensively, there couldn't be more difference between the cars and how the handle. In one word the forester is "crap" in the handling department. The amount of body roll is quite disturbing, and even with a stiffer suspension, it doesn't counter the fact that it's more top-heavy than the regular outback.
    I know in my heart that Ellsworth bikes are more durable by as much as double. AND they are all lighter...Tony Ellsworth

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    Turbos suck down gas when yer foot's in it...

    Oh wow, sounds like the 2 motors are fairly even in peak power numbers. Yes, turbos will definitely suck down the gas when you are boosting, but when you are cruising they don't suck down any more gas.
    Take for instance my car. '97 Mitsubishi eclipse 2L turbo. rated at 23/31mpg which is very close to the non turbo motor of the same size but I get 210hp 210ft lbs vs 140hp and some honda like torque. I got 30.5mpg cruising @70mph from the bay area to sacramento when the car was new. I've gotten as little as 10mpg on race tracks when I have my foot to the floor for 4 20 minute sessions. Granted, the bigger fuel injectors and turbo didn't help.
    If the hp/tq numbers are the same for the 2 engines subaru engines, the v6 will definitely be the smoother of the 2 in power delivery.

    As for the handling, that's the price one pays for ground clearance on a car in this price range. :-/

    -Sp


    Quote Originally Posted by Jm.
    the 3.0 has 212hp, and probably at least as much torque. Thing is, turbos kick in at a certain RPM, and they definitely suck gas down. The torque for the 3.0 H6 will undoubtedly be better in the low-range(where the turbo isn't working). I've driven the HS 3.0 legacy Outback(l.l. bean model), and it is definitely a great car. Lots of torque and you better be ready for when it downshifts, because it usually takes off.

    I've also driven the forester extensively, there couldn't be more difference between the cars and how the handle. In one word the forester is "crap" in the handling department. The amount of body roll is quite disturbing, and even with a stiffer suspension, it doesn't counter the fact that it's more top-heavy than the regular outback.

  55. #55
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    Leaving Goosebury Mesa

    I bought a 2000 Legacy Wagon used w/ 62,K mi for $12,500 a year ago, since I never need the extra inch of clearance or a sunroof (ride my bike for those things). Everything else is the same except the two-tone with the Outback. I like automatics unless its a sports car (why bother, especially in town traffic). I got some 16 x 7 inch BBS 3 cross spoke style tuner wheels for $300 that look better than the GT model wheels.

    I consistently calculated 28 mpg at 80 mph freeway without bikes on top, about 22 - 24 around the county town and country. It's not an A4 wagon in ride quality but just as quick (or slow). It handles very flat when pushed through corners. Smooth ride. It's big enough for me at 6'2 to sleep in without curling up. Fits a 10ft long board or 2, and my bike without removing the wheels inside easily. Nice stock sounds, interior. Carries 5 adults comfortably and as much as mid sized SUV's.

    The latest model Subarus have the late 90's reliability bugs fixed. Very low maintenance. 100,000k mi for the first major service (cam timing belts), else just water, diff oil, and plugs every 30k. Easy oil change.

    The VW TD is probably a little lighter firmer riding and quicker, but probably smaller.

    Subaru has been very good to me.

    - ray
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  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by airbag
    Im in the market for a new car, Im looking at Subaru outbacks and the VW Jetta Wagon. I really Like the TDI the jetta offers, but the outback is 4-wheel drive. I live in south Florida and my job requires me to do alot of driving, Right now I have a SUV and the gas milage is Killing me. NOT LOOKING TO MAKE ANTI SUV RANT....PLEASE DON'T START. If anyone has any experience with these cars please let me know.
    All I can say about Subaru is "Torque Bind". Stay away or get a VW. I have had 2 Subaru's and for me, enough is enough.

  57. #57
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    "nutha Subarau driver here. I got an Outback with 50k for $11k. The car was mint and has given me no problems whatsoever. Plenty of room, decent mileage, good in the snow, and so far, very reliable. Its basically just a commuter/bike hauler but Id definitely get another. I have 4 cyl which, imo, is a little underpowered but if you punch it, it will definitely get you around slower traffic.
    though hope is frail, it must prevail - Taj Weekes

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    eh-nay Ityopia!

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by SinglePivot
    Oh wow, sounds like the 2 motors are fairly even in peak power numbers. Yes, turbos will definitely suck down the gas when you are boosting, but when you are cruising they don't suck down any more gas.
    Take for instance my car. '97 Mitsubishi eclipse 2L turbo. rated at 23/31mpg which is very close to the non turbo motor of the same size but I get 210hp 210ft lbs vs 140hp and some honda like torque. I got 30.5mpg cruising @70mph from the bay area to sacramento when the car was new. I've gotten as little as 10mpg on race tracks when I have my foot to the floor for 4 20 minute sessions. Granted, the bigger fuel injectors and turbo didn't help.
    If the hp/tq numbers are the same for the 2 engines subaru engines, the v6 will definitely be the smoother of the 2 in power delivery.

    As for the handling, that's the price one pays for ground clearance on a car in this price range. :-/

    -Sp
    You kind of misunderstand, because the torque-numbers are similer, that means that the non-turbo engine will deliver more torque at a lower RPM. Even though they have the same "peak" numbers, due to the displacement their curve will be much different. That's why the turbo develops the same amount of horsepower, abeit with the engine screaming at 6000rpm.

    And it's not only the ground clearance, go check out a forester, look at how "tall" it is, comapred to the legacy outback. It's simply a more "boxy" design.
    I know in my heart that Ellsworth bikes are more durable by as much as double. AND they are all lighter...Tony Ellsworth

  59. #59
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    Anyone elso notice the 6cyl Suby gets 19 mpg in the city?! Sounds like a mighty thirsty beast. So after you buck up the for its $32K sticker, you keep paying and paying....As knolly will say, you can put 4 snows on a jetta and get better traction than the awd suby with the all-seasons.

    Oh did I mention the jetta tdi $20K list and gets 38 mpg in the City.....no brainer if you ask me.

  60. #60
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    don't know where you got $20k list.

    Quote Originally Posted by islander
    Anyone elso notice the 6cyl Suby gets 19 mpg in the city?! Sounds like a mighty thirsty beast. So after you buck up the for its $32K sticker, you keep paying and paying....As knolly will say, you can put 4 snows on a jetta and get better traction than the awd suby with the all-seasons.

    Oh did I mention the jetta tdi $20K list and gets 38 mpg in the City.....no brainer if you ask me.
    Jetta TDI, spec'ed like my '02 Outback 4 cylinder, comes in at $23,208 on VW's website. Sorry, but I'll take my Outback with AWD and 65 more horses for $1000 less! There's your no-brainer.

  61. #61
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    torque

    Quote Originally Posted by Earthpig
    65 more horses.
    it's all about the torque with the jetta motor.
    Take the long cut, we'll get there eventually.

  62. #62
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    yeah, you can keep the horse in the stable, torque is where its at and Jetta TDI get 177 ft/lbs. Prices are just off the websites.. nothing magic there.

  63. #63
    Jm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by islander
    yeah, you can keep the horse in the stable, torque is where its at and Jetta TDI get 177 ft/lbs. Prices are just off the websites.. nothing magic there.
    If we were comparing it to something other than a subaru HS6 3.0, that would make some sense, but the subaru horizontal 6 has the jetta beat with torque and HP by a substancial amount. Horizontally opposed engines are usually very good as far as torque is concerned.
    I know in my heart that Ellsworth bikes are more durable by as much as double. AND they are all lighter...Tony Ellsworth

  64. #64
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    Ok, you take the torque and I'll take the AWD

    Quote Originally Posted by islander
    yeah, you can keep the horse in the stable, torque is where its at and Jetta TDI get 177 ft/lbs. Prices are just off the websites.. nothing magic there.
    Torque, shmorque. It's not like you're going to tow anything with either vehicle. If torque is so important, then get a vehicle with real torque - like a pickup! Living in snow country, I'll take the AWD over the diesel torque anyday (and I'm not alone, since I see 20 Outbacks for every diesel Jetta wagon!)

  65. #65
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    Well, at 19mpg I sure hope the HS6 gets more torque and HP than the Jetta! All I'm saying is that the 5sp turbodiesel is no slouch around town and on the hills where torque is key. Driving to Moab for a bike trip, I passed lots of cars and SUV's who were slowing down on the hills while I just left the cruise control on. Did I mention resale on TDI is really good? One of the other posters said he got an outback used for pretty cheap...I dunno, somebody else can do the math. Any way you slice it, cost of ownership is way down for the TDI and you still get decent performance. You can take the extra $$ over to Charles at Hammerhead for the new 5 Spot....

    Hey, did anyone else notice that Subaru is looking at getting its newer vehicles into the light truck category for the laxer emission standards? Sounds like a step backwards to me. VWoA is working with biodiesel sources on a joint project...there's your 'murrican homeland security - think local farmer....
    Last edited by islander; 02-09-2004 at 05:07 PM.

  66. #66
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    If you can wait consider the new Legacy GT Wagon...

    ...that will be coming out as an "'05" this spring. Same powerplant as the WRX STi and Forester XT (another vehicle to consider - turbo or non-turbo). The Legacy GT is expected to be in the 250hp/250ft/lb range...for less than $30K fully loaded. You'll be hard pressed to find more bang for the buck.

    Nothing against the ubiquitous VW - very stylish cars Golf, Jetta, Passat - but I've never heard much positive about long term durability - heard even worse thing about the Audis despite my love for the S6 Avant. My next door neighbor has a beautiful S4 (6cyl) but he seems to spend more time in his dealer loaner than his own car...I know, anecdotal. I wish VW would make a V6 TDI Passat Wagon 4Motion with 6spd...that held up long term...a pipe dream at best. I love the low end torque that TDIs provide and the gas mileage. Wait until the Toureg comes out in the V10 TDI configuration...at $60K+ I'm sure...

    I digress. I get decent MPG with my current 2002 WRX Wagon - especially after dropping the stock exhaust for an aftermarket set-up (APS). Pushing nearly 300hp @ 2.0L (w/ other changes) and got 30mpg+ on a 400 mile trip recently fully loaded at 80mph on avg. Before that it was low 20s at 75mph+ cruising speeds. You can also expect a WRX STi wagon in the next year or so...again, if you can wait.

    Sean
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    jetta master

    my wife and i happen to own a jetta, not the wagon, but the standard 2.0 5 speed. my brother in law who i race with on weekends has a outback...and although a nice car, at 6'2" i am very cramped in the outback under all conditions. and if the fornt tire goes flat, you have to pull a fuse and switch spare to front and good tire to rear and...geez..swore i would never own a vw, but when we hit 90 plus running down the state, geting 30 mpg and sunroof open.....and if she will get me the roof rack that mounts right to the bolts supplied on the body in the door panels...i am in driving heaven. if you could fit your stuff in the wagon and don't need the 4 wheel drive....or how about the passat 4 motion i think it is called?
    ramblings from a northern stateofmike.....

  68. #68
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    Buy a Saab

    Quote Originally Posted by airbag
    .......I live in south Florida and my job requires me to do alot of driving, Right now I have a SUV and the gas milage is Killing me.....
    Ok - let me get this straight. You live in SOUTH Florida and want an AWD car? I guess i'd rather get a TDI (Jetta) but have you ever ridden/driven one of those things? The interior is rather cheap sounding and lots of plastic (Subaru too unfortunately.)

    Want to ride with much more comfort? Check out a Saab 9.5 Wagon that is 2 years old. Let someone else take the initial depreciation hit of buying a new car and get a fast, comfortable, well built vehicle that you won't mind spending a lot of time in. I bet it isn't too hard to find a used one with 25K miles for less than $17,000.

    We have a Subaru Forester and a Saab 9000 Turbo. My Saab with snow tires is just as capable - if not more capable than our AWD Subie with all season tires. There really isn't a need to "have to own AWD". I live in Colorado and can honestly say that too. Heck, look at Vail and Aspen Police departments...they both use/used Saabs for years with no problems.
    Just my opinion though. I think Saabs are very under-rated vehicles with horrible resale value which can be an awesome purchase for someone looking for a quality sport wagon. Got Turbo?
    <img src="http://home.jtan.com/~joe/saab/saab_9.jpg:>

  69. #69
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    WRX Wagon

    wrx wagon for sure. awd, 227 hp and a blast to drive. plus, they look alot better this year than in past years. my choice for sure. check it out.

  70. #70
    Back of the pack fat guy
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    let's talk pollution

    Quote Originally Posted by islander
    Hey, did anyone else notice that Subaru is looking at getting its newer vehicles into the light truck category for the laxer emission standards? Sounds like a step backwards to me.
    Did you see that the VW Touareg diesel is now consider the biggest polluting beast of a passenger vehicle in the US? (The Honda Civic CX that runs on natural gas is the cleanest, even cleaner than the gas-electric hybrids like the redesigned Prius.) Anyone who considers the "green effect" of what they drive can't seriously consider buying a diesel.

  71. #71
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    Idea!

    Quote Originally Posted by airbag
    Im in the market for a new car, Im looking at Subaru outbacks and the VW Jetta Wagon. I really Like the TDI the jetta offers, but the outback is 4-wheel drive. I live in south Florida and my job requires me to do alot of driving, Right now I have a SUV and the gas milage is Killing me. NOT LOOKING TO MAKE ANTI SUV RANT....PLEASE DON'T START. If anyone has any experience with these cars please let me know.
    If price is important IMBA members (at least 6 months) can get a SUB at cost. If you want more power check out the Turbo Forester, VERY FAST!! Does not handle as well as the WRX but is a sleeper.

  72. #72
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    This is a wonderful post. The things given are unanimous and needs to be appreciated by everyone.
    --------
    marqthompson
    camper trailers

  73. #73
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    Subarus and VW's are some of my favorite
    however IMO new outback is way too big and ugly.
    i bought VW GOLF TDI few month ago, and its an amazing car. 40mpg over last 10,000 miles. and as some have said there's a huge following with VW TDI's,
    you can do some research on tdiclub.com
    i love my TDI

  74. #74
    I Tried Them ALL... SuperModerator
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    Here is another alternative: Audi allroad 2.7 Twin Turbo 307hp(modified), with four ride heights, 25% grade scaling ability(I've pulled Jeep Wranglers out of mud and done 75mph in snow), AWD and Porsche-like passing ability...plus, two bikes easily fit inside. Find them used for under $15k:

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Subaru outback or VW Jetta Wagon TDI?-side5.jpg  

    Last edited by Cayenne_Pepa; 11-07-2010 at 09:05 AM.
    "This is a male-dominated forum... there will be lots of Testosterone sword-shaming here" ~ Kenfucius

  75. #75
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachariah
    and Porsche passing ability
    And what? With a supposed 300hp and that weight/transmission, I don't think there's any porsche that's been made in the last few years that you'd have a chance of outrunning.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  76. #76
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    No way Id be caught DEAD in a Subby wagon.

  77. #77
    ballbuster
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    I was gonna say...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    And what? With a supposed 300hp and that weight/transmission, I don't think there's any porsche that's been made in the last few years that you'd have a chance of outrunning.
    While the Allroad is quick, it isn't sports car quick. 0-60 is like 7.5 seconds. That thing is 4200 pounds. But... compared to an SUV... way better handling, way better safety, way better gas mileage, and excellent AWD. It would give any unibody (street) SUV a run for its money off road.

  78. #78
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    I've got an '09 2.5XT Subby wagon thats been nothing but TROUBLE!!!

    40,000 miles and one big headache.

    The VW would be my vote!
    Truffle Shuffle

  79. #79
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    Subaru Outback. End of story. It is AWD and more reliable. Most people I know with a Subaru love it. Most people I know who own/owned a VW hated it. VW reliability is bad.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by marqthompson
    This is a wonderful post. The things given are unanimous and needs to be appreciated by everyone.
    --------
    I don't get it. What does "the things given are unanimous and need to be appreciated" even mean? Why would you sign up for the forum just to bump a 7-year-old thread and not even add a sensical statement to it?

    CavityKilla: what kind of problems have you had with your 2.5XT? I was thinking of getting one.

  81. #81
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    I bought the Jetta Sportwagen 2.5 SE two months ago. I wanted the TDI, but the combination of the turbo lag and the violent compression braking when you let go of the gas pedal was a deal breaker for me.

    I am pleasantly surprised by the peppiness of the 2.5 engine. Got a greal deal too. 25 grand for the 2.5 SE fully optioned with the 17 inch wheels, premium sound, leatherette seats, navigation and panoramic sunroof (goes all the way to the back seat). I havent regretted it.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by @dam
    I don't get it. What does "the things given are unanimous and need to be appreciated" even mean? Why would you sign up for the forum just to bump a 7-year-old thread and not even add a sensical statement to it?

    CavityKilla: what kind of problems have you had with your 2.5XT? I was thinking of getting one.
    Wow, a week later and no one has noticed that this 7 year old very dead thread was resurrected by a spammer (see signature link.)

    Bad Post reported.

  83. #83
    Hi.
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    Through 2010, Jettas have had crappy reliability ratings. They've also been the car of choice for annoying teenage girls all across the country.

    When it breaks, you're going to pay far more to maintain your VW than you will a Subaru. Good luck to all those jetta owners .

  84. #84
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    I have had VWs for 15years of on again off again troubles, 91 Golf that was a good car ran for 11 years and I still see it around town, 97Jetta transmission out before 60k, 02 jetta 1.8t nice car purchased with only 5k but this car spent as much time in the shop as it did on the road, 06 passat nice looking car but wow two months worth of time combined in the shop all four wheels were refinished TWICE under warranty and countless mechanical problems.

    I purchased a new Outback in 07 and have had no problems. To date I have 37k on the car, I get 29mpg on the highway if not driving >75 and the car starts and goes every time I get in. My car is the basic model with the 2.non turbo. V6 and turbo models get poor mileage and require more costly upkeep over time. So far my thoughts are I'll be keeping the Outback for a long time. My brother in -law has a n 06 and had his first brake job at 75k, mostly highway driving.

    A friend who's a mechanic at Gary's, a local VW shop happen to stop in on Friday. He was driving an 02 golf diesel and I asked him about the milage. He said if you drive the speed limit or a little less you can get close to 50mpg. I asked about upkeep and he said that before 03 need a time belt change at every 50k and after 03 every 100k.
    What am I going to do with forty subscriptions to Vibe?

  85. #85
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    Just traded my 05 Outback XT Ltd on a 2011 TDI sportwagen.
    Best mileage on the OB was 20.3, interior starting falling apart on day one.
    Most of the interior lights were not functional for more than a day after the dealer (or independent Subaru specialist shop) would fix them. With two bikes and a rocket box on top I got 14.5 mpg on a trip to the mountains last year. got 35mpg on same trip with same bikes on the TDI last weekend.
    I have a lot of friends that love their Subarus, and theirs are falling apart too, I guess they just don't mind.
    I would never consider a Subaru again, the cheapest built and most unreliable car I've ever owned. Oh yeah, I think they forgot to put ANY sound insulation in the Subaru, undoubtedly, the loudest car I've ever been in.
    c

  86. #86
    Rider and Wrench
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    Man this is an old thread...

    I purchased an 05 Subaru Outback LL Bean a while back and it is a fairly nice car, I like the layout of a wagon better than a sedan for my kids and gear, but the thing is silly when it comes to gas mileage!!!! I guess the H6 3.0 L is the main issue- it is very torquey and moves out faster than one might think but not even close enough to justify the lack of gas milage. I get 16-17 mpg of real world mileage- two bike racks on the roof and 75mph on the highway- in line with most small SUV's...

    I got the H6 because I planned on running it into the ground and was thinking since it holds a whole lot of oil and should generally less stressed than a screaming 4cyl with ac blasting etc... it should be a good choice...
    I Just wish I could ride more!


  87. #87
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    Sure love those Audi Allroads. I wonder why they quit making them?
    I think I'll be going with the Jetta Sportwagon TDI myself. Throw some nice wheels on them and they are pretty cool looking cars.

  88. #88
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    Tdi Fwiw

    I bought the first new 2010 Jetta SW TDI in Sept of 2009. I now have 18,000 miles on it. I get 50 mpg on back highways at 65 mph. I get 40 mpg towing a small trailer with an ATV on it. I can put a recumbent trike in back and another one on the trailer and get 45. If I put two bicycles on top and run at 80mph, I will get 35mpg. It has needed nothing other than a reset for the particulate filter and the first 3 oil changes are free. I traded out of an AWD Honda Ridgeline that got 10mpg towing and 15-17mpg the rest of the time. I was looking for fuel economy and something that was more practical and versatile than an economy car. The VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI has been very satisfying to own and drive.

  89. #89
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    ... and if we just ...

    My next door neighbor just bought a black VW Jetta TDI with a 6 speed manual and he really likes it...I wanted the VW but the towing ratings are too low for my application. My brother has a Passat with the 2.0 Turbo and it can only tow 2000 #...whereas in Europe these cars have higher ratings.....

    Personally I ended up buying a 2011 Subaru OB with the 3.6 and it tows my skiff without any problems, specially on the boatramps.. It does get a respectable 29 MPG on the highway doing 70MPH..
    The new Subaru's are much more fuel efficient than the older models as my 3.6 gets better MPG's than my mom's 2007 LL Bean's 2.5... The new engines have been redesigned and it shows at the pump.
    Whatever vehicle someone picks, I am sure that rising fuel prices will make anyone think twice about a gas guzzling SUV that rarely gets used to it capacity...
    Current ride(s) 2011 Santa Cruz Blur LT and a Norco Threshold SL with Di2

  90. #90
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    I have a 2010 Outback and a 2010 TDI sedan. The outback is definitely a go anywhere car here in NE PA. The Jetta is more fun to drive, smaller and 6 speeds help plus 40+ MPG means less stops for fuel. The Jetta has limited ground clearance and can scrape on the forest roads. The Outback on the other hand has amazing ground clearance. The Jetta is my everyday driver and the Outback is my wife's. Both are great cars with different strengths and weaknesses. If I'm sticking to the pavement I take the Jetta. If the roads are slippery, or I am heading onto the gravel forest roads its the Outback.

  91. #91
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    i'd go with the suby myself. i know a few who own one and they are super reliable, good on gas, and for me i would be happy with a 4 cyl. because i don't have a heavy foot plus i want good gas mileage.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwheelin
    i'd go with the suby myself. i know a few who own one and they are super reliable, good on gas, and for me i would be happy with a 4 cyl. because i don't have a heavy foot plus i want good gas mileage.
    If economy is considered, the TDI is the clear winner despite the difference in price. Our Toyota Solara SLE convertible gets 30mpg and the TDI is 50% better even with the 10% higher fuel costs, it's the clear winner, not to mention the superb power of the TDI

  93. #93
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    im not a fan of vw.

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by roc865
    im not a fan of vw.
    Why are you even reading this thread?
    "This is a male-dominated forum... there will be lots of Testosterone sword-shaming here" ~ Kenfucius

  95. #95
    thecentralscrutinizer
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    We went with the Subaru OB for a few reasons. The first is that VW's reputation for reliability is far from what we wanted. The Jetta TDi Sportwagon only had a towing capacity of 1000 lbs. (WTF?) Did not offer the interior room that the OB does. We decided on AWD. Lastly, the IMBA discount with Subaru.

    We did drive the TDi and thought it was a nice car, just not the car we ultimately needed.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachariah
    Why are you even reading this thread?
    because i'm a fan of the outback.

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