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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsanjuan31 View Post
    I ended up ordering from 1up-usa.com on Friday and just received it today (I live in MD). It's an awesome rack and I'm glad I ordered it. I exchanged emails with 1up-usa prior to ordering and they were always quick to respond, usually within a few hours.

    It sucks what is happening but I've literally been torn with what rack to buyer for the past two months but I'm glad I got one promptly. We'll see how things turn out after a year of use but I have no doubts it'll be just fine.
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  2. #102
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    Just saw this thread. Not sure if someone already posted, but Cal holds US Patent US5833074 A which expired in 2015. Cal may have sold the rights to the patent to Robbie. Could have been a non-compete as well.

    Edit: Cal also has an application for a new patent CA2956005 A1 dated Jan 25, 2017.

    Edit: removed previous improvements.

  3. #103
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    I caught the mess from having both domains and earlier orders in my mail in box. I'm assuming it was Cal answering the wrong (for me) phone in my query for parts. He said I need to contact the other company. He had no answer's on where this slightly different rack will be made or sourced.

    This is a shame overall. For me it left a lack of respect for the new/old/whatever maker of the different rack.
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  4. #104
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    Way OT, but when I read this, u know what jingled my mind. Patsy Grimaldi // Juiana's. The only difference was that the ~original owner~ is the right owner@heart.

    Me wonder what's really going on in the 1!P world of things.
    Really sad how it's semi trashing the original older product and just not highlighting whatever merits there is in the newer one.

  5. #105
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    Anyone else notice the "new" rack doesn't even have matching skewers. Note that literally there is zero carry over in parts/features, everything is slightly different from the first which shows he is trying to skate over patent infringement issues.

    As this shows you, good inventors are not always good business people.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsanjuan31 View Post
    I ended up ordering from 1up-usa.com on Friday and just received it today (I live in MD). It's an awesome rack and I'm glad I ordered it. I exchanged emails with 1up-usa prior to ordering and they were always quick to respond, usually within a few hours.

    It sucks what is happening but I've literally been torn with what rack to buyer for the past two months but I'm glad I got one promptly. We'll see how things turn out after a year of use but I have no doubts it'll be just fine.
    Yo- This is your Kuya Gary. Use something better than the velcro as a backup in case the bolt loosens up. i used a steel cable on my Subaru but other people use U-locks.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by asmallsol View Post



    Anyone else notice the "new" rack doesn't even have matching skewers. Note that literally there is zero carry over in parts/features, everything is slightly different from the first which shows he is trying to skate over patent infringement issues.

    As this shows you, good inventors are not always good business people.
    What problem is that solving? On my old-style rack those wheel thingys go in the exact same position for either 27.5" or 29" tires.

    When I have had to place them lower, e.g., my son's old 20" tire bike, it didn't take long to unbolt and that rack became dedicated for his bike. Now he is on a 29er so it went back.


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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by asmallsol View Post



    Anyone else notice the "new" rack doesn't even have matching skewers. Note that literally there is zero carry over in parts/features, everything is slightly different from the first which shows he is trying to skate over patent infringement issues.

    As this shows you, good inventors are not always good business people.
    Considering he owns the patent- doubt he's trying to skirt it. It's a prototype not the production unit.
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  9. #109
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    I love how people are doubting the guy who actually created and invented the original product. You love his original product so what makes you doubt he doesn't know what he's doing now?? I remember when the same thing happened to Steve Jobs and look how that turned out. Wait until you see the final product before casting judgment.


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  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew8404 View Post
    I love how people are doubting the guy who actually created and invented the original product. You love his original product so what makes you doubt he doesn't know what he's doing now?? I remember when the same thing happened to Steve Jobs and look how that turned out. Wait until you see the final product before casting judgment.


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    I don't think the issue is his product per se but the way he's going about doing things with the "re"-introduction of his new/old rack. This would be like Steve Jobs coming back to life and starting Apple1 and introducing the I-phone to compete with Apple and the iPhone.
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  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by k2rider1964 View Post
    I don't think the issue is his product per se but the way he's going about doing things with the "re"-introduction of his new/old rack. This would be like Steve Jobs coming back to life and starting Apple1 and introducing the I-phone to compete with Apple and the iPhone.
    I agree the name is stupid and he should just come up with a new product name. But still people are complaining about the product.


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  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipnidaho View Post
    Yo- This is your Kuya Gary. Use something better than the velcro as a backup in case the bolt loosens up. i used a steel cable on my Subaru but other people use U-locks.
    The velcro had me cracking up. I'll pick up a U-lock this weekend to replace my cable lock I had on there so I can keep using the cable for something else.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew8404 View Post
    I love how people are doubting the guy who actually created and invented the original product. You love his original product so what makes you doubt he doesn't know what he's doing now?? I remember when the same thing happened to Steve Jobs and look how that turned out. Wait until you see the final product before casting judgment.


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    just comes with the territory of posting his stuff in public, whether it is a prototype or for sale.


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  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oktavius View Post
    The guy in the YouTube video for the "new" one introduces himself as Cal Phillips, owner of 1UP USA (channel name is Corky Phillips). So Cal was the original designer and left the company? Do you know why or more? This might be the clue we need.

    https://youtu.be/43WSDih6mOQ

    EDIT: Just noticed that Cal is wearing the same shirt the other guys wear in videos on 1UP USA's channel.

    https://youtu.be/cNHjx0sHzxw
    I still have and love my original 1UP rack and have no plans of replacing it but after seeing the new rack I can appreciate the improvements. I don't know if anyone noticed or mentioned but in the video the first or primary rack are noticeably different with all the improvements but the add-on still has some of the features of the older design. Notice the pivot of the arms. The new rack doesn't have the axle going through the end of the tray but the add-on does just like the older version. Also the arms themselves are different. The new rack has the quick-release spool but the add-on has the older version with the holes on the arms. I'm an engineer (mechanical) and I always believe in product improvements no matter how perfect you think your product is because it is never perfect. Of course I don't believe in changing solely for the sake of changing but if there is a real functional benefit to a change then I'm all for it and I see the new rack has some real changes that are worth the effort. Like I said, I'm not looking to replace my "older" 1UP rack but if I needed to replace it for any reason or if someone is looking to get a new rack I would go or recommend the new design. It's just better. Just my own personal opinion of course.
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  15. #115
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    Looks like Cal has been making tweaks to his website. The rack is now called the Quick-Rack Mark II. Under products, says available December 2017.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyride1 View Post
    I still have and love my original 1UP rack and have no plans of replacing it but after seeing the new rack I can appreciate the improvements.
    I have an original as well, bought several years ago and seen daily use since. To me the new rack looks like a cost-cutting version of the old; I don't see any point to any of the so-called "improvements". If I needed to replace mine today, I'd buy the original again (even at the higher price).

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunderland56 View Post
    I have an original as well, bought several years ago and seen daily use since. To me the new rack looks like a cost-cutting version of the old; I don't see any point to any of the so-called "improvements". If I needed to replace mine today, I'd buy the original again (even at the higher price).
    Its good to have options, isn't it? I also see the improvements as cost-cutting but when done right that's a good thing. Just because something costs more doesn't mean it is better. Improvements can mean different things such as a better design that costs less to produce and functions better and that's what I see of the new rack. Again, not to take anything away from my existing rack but I can appreciate the improvements of the new ones.
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  18. #118
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    As quick follow up to this I too decided to pull the trigger and buy the "original" because it largely meets my needs. Not going to wait to see if v2 (or whatever it's going to be called) will actually hit market & be an improvement.

    Ordered it late on a Tuesday, had it on Saturday. Awesome quality as expected....just hope that I'll have someone to warrant it if something does go wrong.

  19. #119
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    I've had my 1up rack for a few years. It's a high quality rack only problem I have now is that the stupid ball you use to tighten it down to the hitch won't go down like it used too. So now it barely fits in any 2inch receivers. I wrote 1up asking them what to do and they said just use a hammer to get it back down. That didn't do crap no matter how hard I tried.


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  20. #120
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    I'm not in a hurry so I'll bewailing until December and will be buying to "new" Quick Rack Mark II version for the sole purpose of saving $200. If 1Up-USA lowers their price to match Cal's new product, I'll probably go with them as I'm not a fan of the quick release wheel adjustments (as somebody who will never need to change them anyway)
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  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew8404 View Post
    I've had my 1up rack for a few years. It's a high quality rack only problem I have now is that the stupid ball you use to tighten it down to the hitch won't go down like it used too. So now it barely fits in any 2inch receivers. I wrote 1up asking them what to do and they said just use a hammer to get it back down. That didn't do crap no matter how hard I tried.


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  22. #122
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    1UP-USA.COM vs 1UPUSA.COM....who knows what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew8404 View Post
    I've had my 1up rack for a few years. It's a high quality rack only problem I have now is that the stupid ball you use to tighten it down to the hitch won't go down like it used too. So now it barely fits in any 2inch receivers. I wrote 1up asking them what to do and they said just use a hammer to get it back down. That didn't do crap no matter how hard I tried.


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    I had this same problem. What has happened is the tapered pin that pushes the ball out has worn and smashed itself from over tightening. Pull the ball out with a pair of channel locks. It pops right out with a little force. Then you will see the pin. You will probably have to get a dremmel or drill bit to shave down the damage to the pin. Then you can ask One Up for a new pin. It installs from the end of the rack. Look at this link
    1UP USA help please

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  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolhand80 View Post
    I had this same problem. What has happened is the tapered pin that pushes the ball out has worn and smashed itself from over tightening. Pull the ball out with a pair of channel locks. It pops right out with a little force. Then you will see the pin. You will probably have to get a dremmel or drill bit to shave down the damage to the pin. Then you can ask One Up for a new pin. It installs from the end of the rack. Look at this link
    1UP USA help please

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    Cool thanks for the info! I'll have to give this a try!


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  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolhand80 View Post
    I had this same problem. What has happened is the tapered pin that pushes the ball out has worn and smashed itself from over tightening. Pull the ball out with a pair of channel locks. It pops right out with a little force. Then you will see the pin. You will probably have to get a dremmel or drill bit to shave down the damage to the pin. Then you can ask One Up for a new pin. It installs from the end of the rack. Look at this link
    1UP USA help please

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    Awesome! Thanks for the info!


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  25. #125
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    Am I the only one waiting to see if a Chinese carbon knockoff is available?
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  26. #126
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    Over recent years, I saw a need for improvements on the old Quik-Rack. So, after investing much time, thought and effort, I invented the new Quik-Rack Mach II. The new Quik-Rack Mach II addresses the desires and requests from previous customers of the old Quik-Rack to make it even more convenient, less expensive and easier to use.
    Last edited by Quik-Rack Mach II; 3 Weeks Ago at 08:20 AM.

  27. #127
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    Cal, thanks for providing some input here. It does not appear that you have been involved with the company selling the original rack for many years. Why did you stop your involvement with Robbie et al, if you did not sell the company or give up control? It seems that you have been out of the picture for several years. Pretty confusing. I still have my Quik-Rack and have no problems with it. I may get a new rack soon, for the other vehicle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quik-Rack Mach II View Post
    Why does 1up USA appear to have two websites?

    My name is Cal Phillips, and I am the inventor and patent holder for the original Quik-Rack that is currently sold on the other website. I founded 1up USA in the year 2000, and began selling products on 1upusa.com.

    My patent expired on the original Quik-Rack in 2015. Because of the expiration of my old patent, it's now available for anyone to manufacture. I still own my trade name 1up USA, and the 1upusa.com website. I did not sell 1up USA, or enter into a contract with any other company.

    I did not give any other company the right to use my trade name 1up USA.

    Over recent years, I saw a need for improvements on the old Quik-Rack. So, after investing much time, thought and effort, I invented the new Quik-Rack Mach II. The new Quik-Rack Mach II addresses the desires and requests from previous customers of the old Quik-Rack to make it even more convenient, less expensive and easier to use.

  28. #128
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    1up 1-up 7up I don't care. I will only deal with what ever company will sell and ship to Alaska at a reasonable charge.
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  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quik-Rack Mach II View Post
    Why does 1up USA appear to have two websites?

    My name is Cal Phillips, and I am the inventor and patent holder for the original Quik-Rack that is currently sold on the other website. I founded 1up USA in the year 2000, and began selling products on 1upusa.com.

    My patent expired on the original Quik-Rack in 2015. Because of the expiration of my old patent, it's now available for anyone to manufacture. I still own my trade name 1up USA, and the 1upusa.com website. I did not sell 1up USA, or enter into a contract with any other company.

    I did not give any other company the right to use my trade name 1up USA.

    Over recent years, I saw a need for improvements on the old Quik-Rack. So, after investing much time, thought and effort, I invented the new Quik-Rack Mach II. The new Quik-Rack Mach II addresses the desires and requests from previous customers of the old Quik-Rack to make it even more convenient, less expensive and easier to use.
    I purchased my Quik roof rack in 2014 from what appears to be the "old" site as far as I can tell. At that time there was only one site. So who did I purchase from?

    There seems to be a fair bit unsaid here, given the previous company registration searches about the company that people have provided. Nothing here passes the smell test.

    Guessing wildly and in extreme ignorance - but have dealt with similar situations many times as a corporate solicitor - I'd say it sounds like an inventor got forced out of the company, but now claims that IP rights were held individually. But who knows - that's just a wild guess.

  30. #130
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    If Cal is looking for customer feedback here is mine: I love the original rack even with its multitude of alleged design-flaws from so-called interweb experts, i.e., Trolls for competing bike rack companies who cannot understand why a customer will pay double for a high quality product, made in the SA, and that does the main tasks much easier and superior to their under-priced plastic-laden, Chinese crap.

    If the rack goes the cheapo-plastic route in the future, I'll just go back to Yakima or another brand, as now 1 Up will have little to no distinguishing features for me.

    If thequick replease pictured are intended to be on the final retail product for the new rack, it is a huge turn-off to me. It makes it easy to rip-off the bike and what do I get in return? I NEVER move the positioning down for the main rack that I use--it's just not needed.

    The original rack is one the top 3 accessories I have purchased for biking--EVER! If that is your design, then you did an amazing job--thank you! Please think carefully before it is turned into the latest iOS update or version of Tapatalk tat very few customers like or understand


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  31. #131
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    Inventor Cal Phillips

    Over recent years, I saw a need for improvements on the old Quik-Rack. So, after investing much time, thought and effort, I invented the new Quik-Rack Mach II. The new Quik-Rack Mach II has 9 patent pending features. The new Quik-Rack Mach II addresses the desires and requests from previous customers of the old Quik-Rack to make it even more convenient, less expensive and easier to use. The new Quik-Rack Mach II will be available in December. To get on our list please visit quikrack.com and sign up with your email address to receive an email when the new Quik-Rack Mach II launches.
    Sign up with your email address to receive an email when the NEW
    Quik-Rack Mach II
    launches.
    Sign up with your email address to receive an email when the NEW
    Quik-Rack Mach II
    launches.Sign up with your email address to receive an email when the NEW
    Quik-Rack Mach II
    launches.
    Last edited by Quik-Rack Mach II; 3 Weeks Ago at 01:58 PM.

  32. #132
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    What is posted here is exactly what is posted on the 1upusa website what I don't understand is why the original website is not selling the original product as well as the "machII" version expected in december. I need a new rack and I was seriously considering the 1up just because I can't find a bad review to save my life.

    I will probably just order from 1up-usa since I do have a fear of Vaporware and I will hope for the best since the design seems identical and solid as hell.
    Progression is fine just remember to respect your roots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muggsly View Post
    What is posted here is exactly what is posted on the 1upusa website what I don't understand is why the original website is not selling the original product as well as the "machII" version expected in december. I need a new rack and I was seriously considering the 1up just because I can't find a bad review to save my life.

    I will probably just order from 1up-usa since I do have a fear of Vaporware and I will hope for the best since the design seems identical and solid as hell.
    There is obviously more to the story than we are being told.

    The "old" company selling the "old" design is where everyone here has bought their rack and that is one that has been so widely and positively reviewed. I personally don't think any of the "flaws" are actually flaws. The rack is excellent and you won't be disappointed.

    FWIW, regardless of what happened between Cal and the "old" company, he would have been better off using a new brand name and talking up his role in inventing the original rack. It would have been much more positively received. Right now he comes off like a disgruntled employee trying to hurt his former company.

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    ................
    Last edited by joshtee; 3 Weeks Ago at 08:09 PM. Reason: Need more info before passing judgment

  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quik-Rack Mach II View Post
    Why does 1up USA appear to have two websites?

    My name is Cal Phillips, and I am the inventor and patent holder for the original Quik-Rack that is currently sold on the other website. I founded 1up USA in the year 2000, and began selling products on 1upusa.com.

    My patent expired on the original Quik-Rack in 2015. Because of the expiration of my old patent, it's now available for anyone to manufacture. I still own my trade name 1up USA, and the 1upusa.com website. I did not sell 1up USA, or enter into a contract with any other company.

    I did not give any other company the right to use my trade name 1up USA.

    Over recent years, I saw a need for improvements on the old Quik-Rack. So, after investing much time, thought and effort, I invented the new Quik-Rack Mach II. The new Quik-Rack Mach II addresses the desires and requests from previous customers of the old Quik-Rack to make it even more convenient, less expensive and easier to use.


    Quote Originally Posted by Quik-Rack Mach II View Post
    My name is Cal Phillips, and I am the inventor and patent holder for the original Quik-Rack that is currently sold on the other website. I founded 1up USA in the year 2000, and began selling products on 1upusa.com at the same time.
    My patent expired on the original Quik-Rack in 2015. Because of the expiration of my old patent, it's now available for anyone to manufacture. I still own my trade name 1up USA, and the 1upusa.com website. I did not sell 1up USA, or enter into a contract with any other company.
    I did not give any other company the right to use my trade name 1up USA.
    Over recent years, I saw a need for improvements on the old Quik-Rack. So, after investing much time, thought and effort, I invented the new Quik-Rack Mach II. The new Quik-Rack Mach II has 9 patent pending features. The new Quik-Rack Mach II addresses the desires and requests from previous customers of the old Quik-Rack to make it even more convenient, less expensive and easier to use. The new Quik-Rack Mach II will be available in December. To get on our list please visit 1upusa.com and sign up with your email address to receive an email when the new Quik-Rack Mach II launches.
    Sign up with your email address to receive an email when the NEW
    Quik-Rack Mach II
    launches.
    Sign up with your email address to receive an email when the NEW
    Quik-Rack Mach II
    launches.Sign up with your email address to receive an email when the NEW
    Quik-Rack Mach II
    launches.
    Two posts basically repeating what is on your website. It would go a long way if you could more thoroughly address people's concerns.

  36. #136
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    I think he did, didn't he?

    He owns the original IP, company name and domain name.

    That explains why the other guys changed their name and website domain name. The real question should be why did the other guys (i.e. 1up-usa which formerly went under 1upusa) use the name of a company which they did not own or, apparently, ever own.

    At this point, I would have to submit that the burden of proving belongs with 1up-usa and why they are trying to hitch their wagon to the name of a company they do not own and apparently never did. To my way of thinking - that deserves a lot of explanation and is great cause for concern.

    J.

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by jminus View Post
    There is obviously more to the story than we are being told.

    The "old" company selling the "old" design is where everyone here has bought their rack and that is one that has been so widely and positively reviewed. I personally don't think any of the "flaws" are actually flaws. The rack is excellent and you won't be disappointed.
    I just ordered a 2" Super Duty Double today and hopefully will have it by this upcoming weekend and put it through it's paces.

    The only thing that might be annoying is switching the crossbar height depending on if I am taking my wife or my Daughters bike on the back although I plan on buying an addon rack next month so it won't be an issue for long.
    Progression is fine just remember to respect your roots.

  38. #138
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    While this conflict arose recently, the non-Cal company has been selling the rack for quite a few years. I have yet to hear a satisfactory explanation from either side. Cal's story is not the whole story. Concerning burden of proof and wagon hitching, I would say that we don't yet know enough to say who did what.

  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    I think he did, didn't he?

    He owns the original IP, company name and domain name.

    That explains why the other guys changed their name and website domain name. The real question should be why did the other guys (i.e. 1up-usa which formerly went under 1upusa) use the name of a company which they did not own or, apparently, ever own.
    No he really didn't explain anything. Sure he owns the 1upusa.com domain. But then why did it point to the "old" company for years then?

    Why wait until now to launch a campaign to assert his ownership of the name? Why isn't he doing it through the legal system instead of this very odd public display?



    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    At this point, I would have to submit that the burden of proving belongs with 1up-usa and why they are trying to hitch their wagon to the name of a company they do not own and apparently never did. To my way of thinking - that deserves a lot of explanation and is great cause for concern.

    J.
    Only one company has been selling these racks as 1upusa and it's not Cal. I don't see why they would bother explaining anything. I think we are going to have to wait for some sort of legal action before we get any real answers.

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    I am hoping Cal re-posts the same thing for a third time. Once you say the same thing 3X in a thread it is elevated to law or something.


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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Considering he owns the patent- doubt he's trying to skirt it. It's a prototype not the production unit.
    What you see is only a prototype. I also used old Quik-Rack parts as well. The new Quik-Rack Mark II requires new extrusion dies for production. All will be revealed in December.

  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjsb View Post
    I am hoping Cal re-posts the same thing for a third time. Once you say the same thing 3X in a thread it is elevated to law or something.


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    This is the first time I ever posted something on a forum, sorry.

  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by jminus View Post
    No he really didn't explain anything. Sure he owns the 1upusa.com domain. But then why did it point to the "old" company for years then?

    Why wait until now to launch a campaign to assert his ownership of the name? Why isn't he doing it through the legal system instead of this very odd public display?
    Would be nice to have an explanation, but I'm betting legal wrangling has led to some non disparagement clauses. If so, we'll never get an explanation. Same goes for the wait.

    To me, after having owned and run a tech business for 25 years, this whole thing smells a lot like the aftermath of a legal agreement from a business dispute. And, not unsurprisingly, these things take a long time to resolve (been there, done that). But I could be wrong. If there are a bunch of legal non disparagement/hold harmless clauses then we'll never know because everyone is going to keep their mouth shut.

    I have two 1up racks that were both bought through the 1upusa website when there was only one website. The first one, I wound up dealing with Cal directly when it was a brand new company. I still have that rack and I will tell you that Cal's support of some problems I had were first rate and he was a pleasure to deal with. That rack is now probably 10 years old and has maybe more than 20,000 miles on it.

    I then bought another rack last year just before the "1upusa" to "1up-usa" transition occurred. It's also a nice rack, but I'd have to say that it's not as good as the original - it's heavier and more overbuilt which makes it more unwieldy. The service was good but not as good as my first experience.

    Turns out, these were not from the same company.

    So that makes your next statement completely inaccurate simply because I have racks from both companies and they were both named 1upUSA. I bought one of their taillight extender things (the one with the LED taillights on it) and it's pure junk. It interferes with the rack and the electrical wiring set up is simply stupid. And it cost $90.

    Anyhow, your statement is wrong. I have two racks from different companies and they were both called 1upUSA. One had Cal, the other didn't.

    Only one company has been selling these racks as 1upusa and it's not Cal. I don't see why they would bother explaining anything.
    From a legal, and I would also submit, ethical perspective, the people that have a lot of explaining to do are the people who did not own the IP, who did not own the name, and who did not own the corporation but used those names anyhow (i.e. the now "1up dash USA"). If there is anyone with whom to be upset, I'd suggest it is the guys who created this mess by using a company, brand and domain name which they did not own or did not take the time to properly compensate or acquire from the actual owner. That is just like the worst of Chinese counterfeiting only done domestically. And, as you can see, it didn't hold up.

    That actually bothers me considerably now that I have racks from both and I'm stuck in the middle. It also bothers me that somehow they thought they could finagle the company away from the guy who owned it. I wish I had known this before I wound up with what I have now.


    I think we are going to have to wait for some sort of legal action before we get any real answers.
    The legal wrangling has been done. Hence the name change. There is no reason on the planet they would change their name unless forced to. I do think that the ultimate rendering of this mess is confusing (further evidence of legal wrangling - just because it's legal doesn't mean it has to make sense) and wish it were clearer. I do stand by the position that both of them made some pretty boneheaded business decisions from start to finish in this.

    Now, I'm eager to see what Cal has developed. He's a talented designer and it will be interesting to see what his new design looks like in practice. I like that it's lighter and that add ons can be put in place without needing any tools but just snap in place.


    J.

  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eastcoastroots View Post
    I purchased my Quik roof rack in 2014 from what appears to be the "old" site as far as I can tell. At that time there was only one site. So who did I purchase from?

    There seems to be a fair bit unsaid here, given the previous company registration searches about the company that people have provided. Nothing here passes the smell test.

    Guessing wildly and in extreme ignorance - but have dealt with similar situations many times as a corporate solicitor - I'd say it sounds like an inventor got forced out of the company, but now claims that IP rights were held individually. But who knows - that's just a wild guess.
    There was the original 1upUSA.com site that was the Cal version of 1upUSA that was pre 2010 (I think, but around there). I bought mine around before that and dealt with Cal. That would have been the original company.

    There was the new version of the website that has been around the last couple of years or so that was also called 1UpUSA but Cal wasn't there. That was then changed to the 1up-usa.com (dash version of the name) last year sometime. I bought one of these racks too believing it was the same company but it was not. It was the version without Cal the was forced to change their name. This company was using a corporate or dba name and a domain name for which they had no ownership rights and were apparently compelled to change their name.

    Now there is the 1upUSA.com company back that is owned and run by Cal and is offering a new rack.

    According to the comments on the current 1UpUSA.com YouTube videos about the new rack, the 1Up-usa company has been notified that they are using a name to which they are not entitled. So it would appear that this is not over yet. Here is the comment from the comments on the YouTube video:

    Unfortunately, other companies have attempted to hijack the 1up USA name, and deceive the public, by altering their domain name slightly, in order to lure customers to their website. Our domain name since 2000 has been 1upusa.com. Therefore, any other URL other than 1upusa.com is not our original company 1up USA, LLC, but a knock-off. The company has been notified.
    So it would appear that there is a chance that the 1Up-USA company may be having to change their name at some point. It's notable that they have not made any defense in public yet of their ownership of the name or their position as the original company. I would be surprised that if Phillips does indeed own the name that the incorporating state would allow two companies in the same industry that compete to have such almost identical names. This is likely not over yet. I think it is imprudent to be presuming that the dash version of the company is the "old" or entitled company. Probably very telling that they changed their name to the dash version. Only reason that would happen is if they were compelled to make a name change.

    J.

  45. #145
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    Looking at the websites, 1upusa.com says it was founded in 2000, 1up-usa.com says it was founded in 2001.

  46. #146
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    Wisconsin Dept of Financial Institutions reports two companies in response to a query for "1upusa": 1Up USA and 1Up USA.com.

    Cal is the registered agent of the former, which was organized in 2002, dissolved in 2011, and restored in 2016. Robbie is the registered agent of the latter, which was formed in 2012.

    1UP-USA.COM vs 1UPUSA.COM....who knows what?-wdfi_1up.jpg

  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by armii View Post
    Looking at the websites, 1upusa.com says it was founded in 2000, 1up-usa.com says it was founded in 2001.
    Well, there you go.

    You can't have founded your company a year later with the name of a company in the same industry with the same name. So either they have the rights to use the name and can then use it or they don't. I would have to believe they are going to have a very hard time convincing the Secretary of State of Wisconsin to grant them a name with only a hyphen added of an already existing business in the same industry.

    Looks to me like there is going to be a fight and I'd hate to be betting on the 1Up-USA (i.e. dashed name and the newest company) to win that one. Neither side is clean, but I'd rather defend Cal's position (1UpUSA LLC) than Robbie's (1Up-USA or 1UpUSA.com LLC).

    But this is going to be messy. Neither one has a clean corporate history. Both have been delinquent and resolved them and have had to have had the name restored. And the Sec of State should never have granted similar names like this in the first place. What a mess:

    Cal's company:
    https://www.wdfi.org/apps/CorpSearch...imple&q=1upUSA

    Robbie's company (1upUSA.com LLC):
    https://www.wdfi.org/apps/CorpSearch...imple&q=1upUSA

    Notice that the difference is only the ".com" in the actual corporate name. So this is disingenuous from the start. Yet, Cal has apparently owned the domain name 1UpUSA.com continuously.

    This is almost certainly going to wind up in front of a judge. Bonehead moves on both sides here. Robbie should never have named a company using DBAs he did not have the rights to or use domain names he didn't own. But neither has been clean in this and it's going to be a fight. And guess what that means - everybody loses until someone capitulates and writes a big check.


    J.

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    Wisconsin Dept of Financial Institutions reports two companies in response to a query for "1upusa": 1Up USA and 1Up USA.com.

    Cal is the registered agent of the former, which was organized in 2002, dissolved in 2011, and restored in 2016. Robbie is the registered agent of the latter, which was formed in 2012.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Yep. See my post above. If you follow those links, then you will find the corporate history of both. Neither is clean, but also neither has a big deal problem.

    Under Cal's company there is a "notice of administrative dissolution" and "administrative dissolution." I looked up what these mean. The only way you can dissolve a company in WI is by filing articles of dissolution. So if the state does an "administrative dissolution" which happens only if you don't file annual reports for some period of time and they don't have any luck in contacting you, they still can't fully dissolve the corporation. I presume this means they quit sending you all the junk that the state typical sends businesses to save money. If I understand this correctly, the name etc... is still held by the company until if files articles of dissolution and in perpetuity if they don't. If that is the case, then Robbie is going to have a difficult time going forward.

    J.

  49. #149
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    1UP-USA.COM vs 1UPUSA.COM....who knows what?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    There was the original 1upUSA.com site that was the Cal version of 1upUSA that was pre 2010 (I think, but around there). I bought mine around before that and dealt with Cal. That would have been the original company.

    There was the new version of the website that has been around the last couple of years or so that was also called 1UpUSA but Cal wasn't there. That was then changed to the 1up-usa.com (dash version of the name) last year sometime. I bought one of these racks too believing it was the same company but it was not. It was the version without Cal the was forced to change their name. This company was using a corporate or dba name and a domain name for which they had no ownership rights and were apparently compelled to change their name.

    Now there is the 1upUSA.com company back that is owned and run by Cal and is offering a new rack.

    According to the comments on the current 1UpUSA.com YouTube videos about the new rack, the 1Up-usa company has been notified that they are using a name to which they are not entitled. So it would appear that this is not over yet. Here is the comment from the comments on the YouTube video:



    So it would appear that there is a chance that the 1Up-USA company may be having to change their name at some point. It's notable that they have not made any defense in public yet of their ownership of the name or their position as the original company. I would be surprised that if Phillips does indeed own the name that the incorporating state would allow two companies in the same industry that compete to have such almost identical names. This is likely not over yet. I think it is imprudent to be presuming that the dash version of the company is the "old" or entitled company. Probably very telling that they changed their name to the dash version. Only reason that would happen is if they were compelled to make a name change.

    J.
    The part that doesn't pass the smell test is the domain. If Cal controls the 1upusa.com domain, then some random company can't just come along and start using it as their website. Either Cal allowed the other company to use the domain he controlled (likely as part of a purchase or licensing agreement) or he failed to renew his registration and someone came along and hi-jacked it. This later scenario is pretty uncommon. Domain registrars make it hard to snipe a domain out from under someone and will usually return ownership to the original registrant if they ask for it.

    I doubt the non-Cal company was compelled to change their name. Cal just decided to point the domain to his own website and the non-Cal company had to scramble to register their own domain.

    So I agree with your overall assessment. Business deal that has gone sour and now two parties are fighting over the name and IP. However, I think it is inferring too much to assume that there is some sort of willful infringement happening. It seems almost certain that there was a single entity (affiliated with Cal somehow) selling these racks for the last 15 years or whatever and that entity was either sold to new ownership or Cal departed or he was forced out by the other partners.

    Just because someone is listed on a patent doesn't mean they still own it.

  50. #150
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    All I care about is price, and the 1UpUSA Quik-Rak Mach II is significantly cheaper than the 1UP-USA Quik-Rak. $529 vs $438 for a double setup.

    That being said, I value a lightweight rack setup and both Quik-Rack options are a bit on the heavier side at 48lbs. That's important due to wanting other accessories that are heavy, like swing adapters such as those coming from Kuat, Rocky-Mounts, Yakima, Rak-Attach, etc.

    The new Yakima Dr. Tray is very lightweight, but even more expensive than the 1UP options. The Kuat Sherpa is probably the best combo of price/weight.
    Last edited by PHeller; 3 Weeks Ago at 04:18 PM.
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  51. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    All I care about is price, and the 1UpUSA Quik-Rak Mach II is significantly cheaper than the 1UP-USA Quik-Rak. $529 vs $438 for a double setup.

    That being said, I value a lightweight rack setup and both Quik-Rack options are a bit on the heavier side at 48lbs. That's important due to want other accessories that are heav, like swing adapters such as those coming from Kuat, Rocky-Mounts, Yakima, Rak-Attach, etc.

    The new Yakima Dr. Tray is very lightweight, but even more expensive than the 1UP options. The Kuat Sherpa is probably the best combo of price/weight.
    Don't forget, if you want black it jumps to $609 for a double.
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  52. #152
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    I'll stick with Robbie's setup and order another one of the original racks around Thanksgiving. I'm not sold on Cal or his explanation...too much is being left unsaid.

  53. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quik-Rack Mach II View Post
    This is the first time I ever posted something on a forum, sorry.
    no apology necessary, just giving you a hard time given the public posts, the confusion, and the opportunity to clarify if possible.

    If you designed the original quick rack--sincere thanks--it is an amazing product. I still cannot believe how much better it is than what I used before.

    Good luck with your new product, obviously there are a lot of us here who are at the very least curious.


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  54. #154
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    Cal, can you give all of us a discount who is subscribed to this thread?

  55. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer View Post
    I'll stick with Robbie's setup and order another one of the original racks around Thanksgiving. I'm not sold on Cal or his explanation...too much is being left unsaid.
    LOL not sold on the guy that created it.
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  56. #156
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    Is the new Quik-Rack II compatible with the old?
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  57. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by jminus View Post
    No he really didn't explain anything. Sure he owns the 1upusa.com domain. But then why did it point to the "old" company for years then?

    Why wait until now to launch a campaign to assert his ownership of the name? Why isn't he doing it through the legal system instead of this very odd public display?





    Only one company has been selling these racks as 1upusa and it's not Cal. I don't see why they would bother explaining anything. I think we are going to have to wait for some sort of legal action before we get any real answers.
    EXACTLY!!! JohnJ is either a friend of Cal's or has been smoking something funny to reach the conclusion he has. If Cal owned all these "domains, patents, titles" etc....why didn't he sue the other com many years ago to force them to stop selling his product with his domain name?
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  58. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    LOL not sold on the guy that created it.
    I'm not prepared to go one way or the other yet - as I first noted, if Cal can design an updated Roof Rack that has the crossbars on the inside and doesn't start peeling within a year, he'll have my money tomorrow.

    But I'd like to point out that creating the product isn't the issue at all - there are plenty of inventors that either chose, or were contractually forced, to have other companies produce and get huge benefits from their inventions. The issue is what happened to allow the "other" company to sell Cal's racks for so long - because let's be honest here, putting a dash between the exact same name appears to be such an easy TM infringement case for Cal that there must be a reason they've been allowed to operate for so many years - likely because there was some sort of agreement in place, and there has since been a falling out of some sort. And to be perfectly honest, it isn't yet clear - and hasn't been confirmed - that these now-competing companies didn't operate as a single company for years; I think I read earlier that Cal's current website pointed to 1up-usa for years, and they likely couldn't just do that unilaterally.

    Of course, we could directly ask Cal: Cal, have you ever been involved in any way (contractually or verbally or otherwise) with the "other" 1Up-USA company or its owners?

    But I'd be surprised if we get much of an answer there. Likely on the lawyer's advice.


    Edit: from previously linked online article: seems pretty clear that my above comments are correct. Cal went from owning the company, to (in the article at least) having the business operations taken over by Robbie and being a (presumably minor?) shareholder - and now presently we have two companies with almost the exact and obviously infringing names, selling very similar products, meaning that at some point Cal probably wanted back in or wasn't happy with Robbie's operations - and whether he got kicked out and started his own company, or whether it was Robbie who left, I guess both are presumably bleeding money to the lawyers to figure out in court. Ahhh well - sounds to me like a classic small-business case of not paying the lawyers enough during the first transaction to make sure this doesn't happen - but I may be biased.

    Phillips describes himself as an "inventor" whose canvas is a machine shop and tools.

    "We started selling our own products and the company took off," he said.

    In summer 2011, Lange took over as general manager and owner. Phillips maintains a share in the company. He met Lange several years ago when Lange worked for Fastenal, an industrial products supplier.

    "For such a young guy, he's brilliant, he's smart, he has the contacts locally and really has a handle on things," Phillips said. "He's a real go-getter. I'm happy with the way he's running the company that offers a really top-notch product, and sales keep growing and growing."
    Last edited by Eastcoastroots; 3 Weeks Ago at 09:17 PM.

  59. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    All I care about is price,
    Yeah 'murca!

  60. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by k2rider1964 View Post
    EXACTLY!!! JohnJ is either a friend of Cal's or has been smoking something funny to reach the conclusion he has. If Cal owned all these "domains, patents, titles" etc....why didn't he sue the other com many years ago to force them to stop selling his product with his domain name?
    Nope. Never met him and only talked with him on the phone when I bought my first rack. Would be nice to hear Cal explain those pieces but I do have a very big problem with people that try and screw small business owners by stealing trademarks, service marks and other property. That sort of behavior deserves an awful lot of explaining. And it goes on all the time in the small business world because of the cost of litigating.

    As for the domain name - Robbie's company bears the same responsibility to sue Cal's company for using the domain if it was theirs. Instead, they chose to change the name of the domain. Nobody in business would do that unless they were absolutely forced to. Even funnier is the official name of their company as registered with the State of Wisconsin is "1UPUSA.COM LLC". Sure, they just up and changed the domain name because they didn't care. It's only the name of their company, but what the heck.

    Seriously. Who wants to see rightful owners of anything ripped off? If Robbie started such a great company, why didn't he name it something else?

    And you don't know that the legal fighting isn't underway. The actions I've been involved in as a business owner reminded me of a slow motion boxing match. Even the relatively simple stuff takes 18 months or more. What is telling though is that if Robbie had all these rights to everything, it ought to be pretty easy to shut Cal down and get him to shut up. Instead he goes and redesigns/changes (pretty expensive) his entire website and domain name? Sure, he believes he has a strong case. Right.

    J.

  61. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    Nope. Never met him and only talked with him on the phone when I bought my first rack. Would be nice to hear Cal explain those pieces but I do have a very big problem with people that try and screw small business owners by stealing trademarks, service marks and other property. That sort of behavior deserves an awful lot of explaining. And it goes on all the time in the small business world because of the cost of litigating.

    As for the domain name - Robbie's company bears the same responsibility to sue Cal's company for using the domain if it was theirs. Instead, they chose to change the name of the domain. Nobody in business would do that unless they were absolutely forced to. Even funnier is the official name of their company as registered with the State of Wisconsin is "1UPUSA.COM LLC". Sure, they just up and changed the domain name because they didn't care. It's only the name of their company, but what the heck.

    Seriously. Who wants to see rightful owners of anything ripped off? If Robbie started such a great company, why didn't he name it something else?

    And you don't know that the legal fighting isn't underway. The actions I've been involved in as a business owner reminded me of a slow motion boxing match. Even the relatively simple stuff takes 18 months or more. What is telling though is that if Robbie had all these rights to everything, it ought to be pretty easy to shut Cal down and get him to shut up. Instead he goes and redesigns/changes (pretty expensive) his entire website and domain name? Sure, he believes he has a strong case. Right.

    J.
    Your points go both ways. If Cal had the rights, it should be very easy to get an injunction against another company who's simply hyphenated your brand name - that's an obvious offside move.

    Read the article I referenced - this is a classic bad breakup. As of 6 years ago, Robbie had taken over the operation of Cal's business. Now Cal is back making racks and there are two businesses with the same name. So they both believe they own the name and/or have the rights to make the products.

    There is literally nothing else from the disclosed facts that would indicate whether one party has the cleaner hands. So I'm not sure where you're getting so much certainty on this matter.

  62. #162
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    I don't care who owns what company, name, domain, or what deals went bad or whatever. All I care about is the product. After seeing Cal's latest video (https://youtu.be/sQRFKgLjn-k) comparing the two versions (old and new) I like the new. Again, I have no issues with the "old" one I'm currently using so I'm not in the market for the new (Mach 2) rack. Now, I know there are diehards for the old or original rack out there so if anyone wants to buy mine with a 1-bike add on for the same price as the new rack and an add on I'd be more than happy to sell the set plus shipping of course (since Robbie charges for shipping also). As a mechanical engineer myself I can appreciate continuous product improvement no matter how perfect you think your product currently is. And with Cal I can expect him to continue to offer new and improved products in the future because he's the engineer who created the rack. Robbie? I wouldn't be surprised if he continues to sell the old (current) design 5 or 10 years from now. You guys can bicker, research, and speculate all you want about what happened but all that is just drama that makes no difference to the final product. Just my $.02.
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  63. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by softbatch View Post
    Is the new Quik-Rack II compatible with the old?
    Cal, can you answer this? Can anyone answer this?!

  64. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by burgrat View Post
    Cal, can you answer this? Can anyone answer this?!
    It doesn't look like they're compatible with each other. Meaning if you have an older rack you cannot use the new add-on because the mounting interface is different and vise versa if that's what you're wondering about. Just watch the video and you'll see what I mean.
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  65. #165
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    Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eastcoastroots View Post
    Your points go both ways. If Cal had the rights, it should be very easy to get an injunction against another company who's simply hyphenated your brand name - that's an obvious offside move.

    Read the article I referenced - this is a classic bad breakup. As of 6 years ago, Robbie had taken over the operation of Cal's business. Now Cal is back making racks and there are two businesses with the same name. So they both believe they own the name and/or have the rights to make the products.

    There is literally nothing else from the disclosed facts that would indicate whether one party has the cleaner hands. So I'm not sure where you're getting so much certainty on this matter.
    Pretty simple - possession is 9/10ths of the law. Cal owns the domain name and the business name. The burden is on the other company to make their case. While anything can happen in court, my money would go with Cal on retaining the name, domain etc... since he currently owns it. Hard to see any other way this is going to go other than Robbie having to change names and probably something with significant differentiation than just adding a hyphen (i.e. change #2).

    And you probably nailed the the key point: "Robbie had taken over the operation of Cal's business." Hard to say it any clearer than that - it was and is Cal's business based on the state filings.

    Having been on both sides of business legal actions, it's pretty clear these two are headed for a major legal conflict. And you're right - it's a classic bad breakup that is the result of boneheaded business decisions by both Cal and Robbie. As a retired teacher I know says, "Every education has a tuition." Never more true than here. Tuition will be in the form of exchanging big checks or checks to attorneys or both. Hopefully, someone survives (often not a characteristic of a bad breakup).

    J.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eastcoastroots View Post
    Edit: from previously linked online article: seems pretty clear that my above comments are correct. Cal went from owning the company, to (in the article at least) having the business operations taken over by Robbie and being a (presumably minor?) shareholder - and now presently we have two companies with almost the exact and obviously infringing names, selling very similar products, meaning that at some point Cal probably wanted back in or wasn't happy with Robbie's operations - and whether he got kicked out and started his own company, or whether it was Robbie who left, I guess both are presumably bleeding money to the lawyers to figure out in court. Ahhh well - sounds to me like a classic small-business case of not paying the lawyers enough during the first transaction to make sure this doesn't happen - but I may be biased.
    Ding ding ding. @Eastcoastroots wins the thread. Who knows how they ended up in conflict now, but at one point, they were clearly in business together and everyone was happy with the arrangement.


    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    Pretty simple - possession is 9/10ths of the law. Cal owns the domain name and the business name. The burden is on the other company to make their case. While anything can happen in court, my money would go with Cal on retaining the name, domain etc... since he currently owns it. Hard to see any other way this is going to go other than Robbie having to change names and probably something with significant differentiation than just adding a hyphen (i.e. change #2).

    And you probably nailed the the key point: "Robbie had taken over the operation of Cal's business." Hard to say it any clearer than that - it was and is Cal's business based on the state filings.

    Having been on both sides of business legal actions, it's pretty clear these two are headed for a major legal conflict. And you're right - it's a classic bad breakup that is the result of boneheaded business decisions by both Cal and Robbie. As a retired teacher I know says, "Every education has a tuition." Never more true than here. Tuition will be in the form of exchanging big checks or checks to attorneys or both. Hopefully, someone survives (often not a characteristic of a bad breakup).

    J.
    You keep saying things like "it was and is Cal's business". Go read that article, it literally has a quote from Cal endorsing Robbie. Robbie didn't just "take over" Cal's business without Cal's permission. He bought into it. They were in business together. Cal must have sold majority ownership to Robbie somewhere along the line and for years the company continued to operate under the original 1upusa name using the 1upusa.com domain.

    From the article:
    Cal Phillips, of rural Dickeyville, formed the company 12 years ago in a garage. It moved to a small building, to a site in the Platteville Business Incubator and then to its present location.

    ...

    In summer 2011, Lange took over as general manager and owner. Phillips maintains a share in the company. He met Lange several years ago when Lange worked for Fastenal, an industrial products supplier.

    "For such a young guy, he's brilliant, he's smart, he has the contacts locally and really has a handle on things," Phillips said. "He's a real go-getter. I'm happy with the way he's running the company that offers a really top-notch product, and sales keep growing and growing."

    Controlling a domain name means next to nothing in a trademark dispute. As to who owns the trade name, I'm going to wager it was either not addressed or left nebulous in the original agreement to sell ownership.

    I'm sure there are a lot of facts we don't know, but it bugs me that you keep painting Robbie and the original 1upusa (now 1up-usa.com) as the bad guys. It really feels like you are pushing an agenda.

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    What is everyone seeing at 1UPUSA.com :: Home now? I just looked at it again and it seems to have reverted back to the "old style" site, showing the standard Quik Rack. If you try and order one, it tells you to go to the 1up-usa.com sight.

    The plot thickens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jminus View Post
    What is everyone seeing at 1UPUSA.com :: Home now? I just looked at it again and it seems to have reverted back to the "old style" site, showing the standard Quik Rack. If you try and order one, it tells you to go to the 1up-usa.com sight.

    The plot thickens.
    Wft is going on? This sure has everyone discussing these racks. Hopefully they'll join back together and make improvements where needed so everyone benefits.

  70. #170
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    Yep it's now gone back to the old site. Contact info is the same on both. The non-hyphenated one still seems a little suspect to me, as there has been no real good explanation from the owner (or anyone else) other than "IT'S MINE I SWEAR". He is either absolutely terrible at PR or has something to hide.

    I will probably go ahead and buy another add-on from 1up-usa.com in case this gets ugly with a legal battle.

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    1UPUSA.com About Us

    About Us
    1up USA was founded by Cal (Corky) Phillips in the year 2000. Cal has 19 patents, and 2 patents pending. Most of the products sold by 1up USA, were designed and patented by Cal Phillips. A newly desighed patent pending 1up USA Quik-Rack is comming soon!

    Weird!! This might be a publicity stunt.
    Last edited by joshtee; 3 Weeks Ago at 09:44 PM.

  72. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by jminus View Post

    You keep saying things like "it was and is Cal's business". Go read that article, it literally has a quote from Cal endorsing Robbie. Robbie didn't just "take over" Cal's business without Cal's permission. He bought into it. They were in business together. Cal must have sold majority ownership to Robbie somewhere along the line and for years the company continued to operate under the original 1upusa name using the 1upusa.com domain.
    I didn't say "it was Cal's business". I said

    And you probably nailed the the key point: "Robbie had taken over the operation of Cal's business."
    as a direct quote of EastCoastroots (hence the quotes). I was simply agreeing that that was probably correct. Note "probably."

    And the state of Wisconsin things he owns it too. How they split the stock is unknown, but apparently Cal owns the name and corporation. Robbie owns the corporation named "1UPUSA.COM LLC". So they are going to have to fight over that name. Spectacularly stupid to be sold a business and to not own the name and trade/servicemarks.

    From the article:



    Controlling a domain name means next to nothing in a trademark dispute. As to who owns the trade name, I'm going to wager it was either not addressed or left nebulous in the original agreement to sell ownership.
    Agreed. But I do think it's telling that Robbie changed his domain name. Maybe he wins that one eventually. I sure wouldn't have changed it if I had a claim to it and especially not if it were my registered corporate name.

    I'm sure there are a lot of facts we don't know, but it bugs me that you keep painting Robbie and the original 1upusa (now 1up-usa.com) as the bad guys. It really feels like you are pushing an agenda.
    Sure there are facts that we don't know. I have been careful to couch my replies as opinion. Apparently my opinion bugs you - but is it a great country or what since we all get to have one? If mine bugs you, then sounds to me like you've got a problem. We disagree. So what? Really not a concern of mine. FWIW, i have no opinion on yours but thought it an interesting discussion.

    Again, between the two of them, they've managed to make some really spectacularly bad business decisions in this. Hopefully, they survive this. Many small businesses in this situation don't. And the old design and the upcoming new design both are good or look good. Be a shame to lose them.


    J.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    Agreed. But I do think it's telling that Robbie changed his domain name.
    To be honest, I just took that to mean that Cal controlled the original domain name and wouldn't transfer it over....

  74. #174
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    I guess coming from my background in sales and owning and operating a business, I would go to court over that issue before Iíd walk away from a longstanding trademark and component of my branding. The only reason I wouldnít do that is if I had legal advice that it was a pointless fight. Therefore,I interpret the change as telling. But Iíll guess weíll see and itís time to get out the popcorn and watch the drama.

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    The only thing more valuable than the patent is the brand.

    This entire $hit show is tarnishing that brand in the very niche market that made it successful. Make no mistake, this is a niche product. Normal people don't shell out $500 for a bike rack. I purchased my 1Up many years ago, sight unseen. It has been and continues to be a phenomenal piece of kit that just works. If something happens to it, I will investigate my options but probably go back to one of these two companies and get another because no one else has anything better. However, as soon as that happens, I suspect that most will leave this drama behind them and never look back.

  76. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by jminus View Post
    What is everyone seeing at 1UPUSA.com :: Home now? I just looked at it again and it seems to have reverted back to the "old style" site, showing the standard Quik Rack. If you try and order one, it tells you to go to the 1up-usa.com sight.

    The plot thickens.
    Thatís what happened in August when I bought my rack. Shopped on the non-hyphenated name, but when I added to cart it took me to the hyphenated one to complete the order.

  77. #177
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    it looks like the new site (1upusa) doesn't show the 1up name anymore.....the company name shows as "Quik-Rack", not 1up .

  78. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by utr View Post
    it looks like the new site (1upusa) doesn't show the 1up name anymore.....the company name shows as "Quik-Rack", not 1up .
    I watched the new video and while it does have a lot of nice features, I sure as heck hope it's just a prototype at this point. There are a lot of issues with it that would make me very uncomfortable using it as a regular rack. That being said, if it is just a prototype, it would be a minor miracle if they could turn it from prototype to final production model in the 2-3 months they have before their scheduled release date.

  79. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Algernon View Post
    Normal people don't shell out $500 for a bike rack..
    Really?

    $699: https://www.rei.com/product/871129/t...ount-bike-rack
    $499: https://www.rei.com/product/110969/r...orm-hitch-rack

    In fact, there are 7 racks from $500-$700 at REI right now.

    https://www.rei.com/search.html?q=bi...ks+hitch-mount

    I think the whole thing is a sh*t-show too. But $500 is what a quality rack costs these days.

  80. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldFly View Post
    I watched the new video and while it does have a lot of nice features, I sure as heck hope it's just a prototype at this point. There are a lot of issues with it that would make me very uncomfortable using it as a regular rack. That being said, if it is just a prototype, it would be a minor miracle if they could turn it from prototype to final production model in the 2-3 months they have before their scheduled release date.
    So what are some of the issues that you see with the new rack? I do see one but what else am I missing?
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  81. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by utr View Post
    it looks like the new site (1upusa) doesn't show the 1up name anymore.....the company name shows as "Quik-Rack", not 1up .
    Yup, and they updated the contact email to quikrackmach2@gmail.com. The only thing that retains 1UP USA is the URL, which I would expect to change if he isn't or can't use the 1UP USA name.

  82. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by utr View Post
    it looks like the new site (1upusa) doesn't show the 1up name anymore.....the company name shows as "Quik-Rack", not 1up .
    And, quikrack.com auto-redirects back to 1upusa.com.

    I'm guessing he officially changed the company name to Quik-Rack now.

  83. #183
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    I almost bought one of the current style racks, several times. But the way it mounts to the hitch, with the ball, and the difficulty in lowering the rack with 3 or 4 bikes on it turned me off time and time again. The Quik-Rack does solve these exact issues. The add-on ability with no wrench, that's great too.

    If the final product in black looks more finished, less prototype, I'd probably go with the new one for sure.

  84. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyride1 View Post
    So what are some of the issues that you see with the new rack? I do see one but what else am I missing?
    The more I watch the video the better I feel about it, but I'm still not super happy about the quick releases on the wheels. Also, maybe he just didn't tighten something enough for the video, but there appears to be a lot of side-to-side play in it when he is moving it or when he bumps into it.

    Some may argue that appearance doesn't matter as long as it is functional, but to me it does matter to a certain extent. I would like to see it look a little more polished before it goes on the back of my car.

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    I agree with you about the hitch - that to me is the only thing that is not entirely bullet proof with this design. Some have had an issue with that ball and has been acknowledged can develop a divot over time leading to it becoming an issue. 1Up has responded that if that happens it can easily be replaced. I like the design change proposed by Quik-Rack but in my opinion from all I have read, I believe Cal will not win this battle. Who knows what the result will be... I'm really torn by all of this as I need a new rack now and currently sitting on the sidelines.

  86. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by bessms View Post
    I agree with you about the hitch - that to me is the only thing that is not entirely bullet proof with this design. Some have had an issue with that ball and has been acknowledged can develop a divot over time leading to it becoming an issue. 1Up has responded that if that happens it can easily be replaced. I like the design change proposed by Quik-Rack but in my opinion from all I have read, I believe Cal will not win this battle. Who knows what the result will be... I'm really torn by all of this as I need a new rack now and currently sitting on the sidelines.
    I just bought the original 1up rack from the 1up-usa site and I couldn't be happier. I replaced a yakima rack and while I read about differences actually seeing them side by side made me a believer. The rack is rock solid and my favorite part is it folds up and takes up zero space in my garage. Now I will admit I have only used the rack once so far but it was a 45min ride over some nasty roads and the bikes moved less than yakima and the rack is much easier to use. It also got the nod of approval from my wife who hated using racks and would always have me make sure the bikes were locked down properly.

    I am happy with the purchase and will keep people updated on my full review coming after at least a month of use but the initial review is happy. I am also wary of vaporware so with the mach2 not out and not actually in use I am not willing to wait for someone to actually put enough miles on one to give a proper review. And if it does wind up being much better the 2nd hand market on racks around here is excellent and I am sure I could sell the original in a matter of days and get a new mach2 but I seriously doubt I would head in that direction because like I said I am happy for now. BTW ordered rack on Sunday night and had it in my hands on Weds by noon and went for a ride 10minutes later since I didn't have to put anything together.
    Progression is fine just remember to respect your roots.

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    Thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bessms View Post
    I agree with you about the hitch - that to me is the only thing that is not entirely bullet proof with this design. Some have had an issue with that ball and has been acknowledged can develop a divot over time leading to it becoming an issue. 1Up has responded that if that happens it can easily be replaced. I like the design change proposed by Quik-Rack but in my opinion from all I have read, I believe Cal will not win this battle. Who knows what the result will be... I'm really torn by all of this as I need a new rack now and currently sitting on the sidelines.
    I needed a new rack but with all of this drama, ended up getting a Yakima Dr Tray. In the future I may get a 1UP USA or a Mach II in the future when the smoke clears as I do like a lot of the features.

    The main reason I didn't go with currently available 1UP USA rack was mainly cost though. Plus it doesn't seem like they are willing to improve the original rack. The new release lever seems like a bandaid rather than a well engineered solution, one that would work no matter the rack capacity. Every rack has its pro's and con's (even the almighty 1UP) and while it is a great rack, with wanting to carry 3 bikes the base price was way higher than than other options. Plus would want to add on locks for everything and if I wanted the new release lever I would have to add that plus the parts to make it work when upsizing or downsizing the rack capacity. All of that would be included in other racks for a lot less. With the Yakima Dr Tray last as long as the current 1UP USA? Probably not. But at the price point, if it lasts a couple years I will be happy. Hopefully by then things will be sorted out with the 1UP and Mach II.

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    Thanks for your comments. I'm interested where similarly situated people end up so thank you for sharing. I have to admit though, I didn't see much if any price difference between the 1up and Yakima Dr Tray. Unless I'm missing something: the Yakima with the added EZ+1 is going to be well over $700. The 1Up double is $529 plus an additional tray of $199... You're in the same ball park range.

  90. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by bessms View Post
    Thanks for your comments. I'm interested where similarly situated people end up so thank you for sharing. I have to admit though, I didn't see much if any price difference between the 1up and Yakima Dr Tray. Unless I'm missing something: the Yakima with the added EZ+1 is going to be well over $700. The 1Up double is $529 plus an additional tray of $199... You're in the same ball park range.
    Was able to get discounted pricing on the Yakima through Experticity.

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    you got me there... I don't even know what that is but it glad it benefited you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bessms View Post
    you got me there... I don't even know what that is but it glad it benefited you.
    Should definitely look into Experticity. Tons of discounts on mtb stuff as well as other stuff. Have to have a membership to show that you are an "expert" within your field. Membership to IMBA counts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bessms View Post
    Thanks for your comments. I'm interested where similarly situated people end up so thank you for sharing. I have to admit though, I didn't see much if any price difference between the 1up and Yakima Dr Tray. Unless I'm missing something: the Yakima with the added EZ+1 is going to be well over $700. The 1Up double is $529 plus an additional tray of $199... You're in the same ball park range.
    Keep in mind the premium charged if you want black.
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    Finally pulled the trigger on buying a 1Up - ordered it Sunday.

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    I am a 1up fanboy. I had a T2 before. Two things I see people complaining about are the price. I think this is justified if you own a couple townies. But in this world of carbon fiber the price reflects what quality things cost.
    The other complaint is the add on locks. They are not the best but I have looked at Thule and Yakima built in locks and as a word of advice please don't trust them either.
    If you are on the fence about a 1up then hit your local riding area during a busy time and hopefully there will be one in the parking lot. You will see what everyoneis talking about.

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    That's exactly how I came to know 1UP - at my sons MTB race a couple of months ago and have talked with others at subsequent races and rides. I was vacillating between the 1Up and Kuat NV and there really is no comparison. I don't necessarily like the hitch mechanism of the 1Up but I've gotten over that. I think most are making more of the cost than should be. It's similarly priced to the Kuat NV and the top line Thule and Yakima's.

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    http://www.1upusa.com now redirects to http://www.quikrack.com.

    I see mention of the 'original' Quik-Rack but after a short look I don't see 1Up mentioned anywhere.

  98. #198
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    Ordered from 1up-usa.com on Sunday and had the rack in my hands on weds used it Friday, Saturday, and Sunday and I couldn't be happier. I have had a couple racks and this one even got the wife's seal of approval which is a win/win. Ordering an add on rack next month so my Daughter's bike doesn't have to go in or on the car.

    1UP-USA.COM vs 1UPUSA.COM....who knows what?-a2njndk.jpg
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    Here's my speculative 2 cents: seems to be a pretty clear case of a business relationship gone sour. That article linked above states that Robbie took over as GM and owner in 2011, and Cal maintained a share of the company. Strange that Cal seemingly maintained control of the domain and legal entity name, 1UP USA, LLC, if he was no longer the owner. His statements that he never sold the company seem to be directly contradicted by this too. I'm guessing the two ran into some disagreements about updating an already successful product line or money... probably money, and Robbie started the new entity 1UP USA.com, LLC and new 1up-usa domain while keeping all the old operations. Looks like Cal has thrown in the towel on the name for now since the old domain now just links to Quickrack.

    Hard to say who's in the right, but seems difficult to say Robbie as owner of 1UPUSA since 2011 did anything wrong except not make sure he had control of the domain and legal name as well.

    Now the hard part... I need a new rack. I was all settled on 1UPUSA before realizing all this was going on. I think some of those improvements on the Mach II look pretty solid. The question is should I get the older, tried and true version now, or wait for the less expensive, possibly new and improved version?

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    Personally, I will be buying the rock from Robbie. His company has a track record and I have used that rack and been treated well when I had a question or concern. The rack is also very solid. I don't have near as much faith in the new design or the new company...not till they have been around for a year, at least. That's just me. It also seems like Cal is not being 100% transparent nor is he answering specific questions. I don't like that at all. Some of the new design features look interesting, as you say. However, I'm wondering if Robbie will address some of them in the near future, now that he has some direct competition. Since my rack has served me well for 4 years and still looks new, I know which one I will be ordering. That's my reasoning.

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