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  1. #1
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    This one's on test

    Hi,

    I've build this prototype and now it's on test in Montreal.

    The rear racks are missing on the pics but you get the idea. There's a few things that will change for sure in the "production" model but not much for now.

    Cycles Golem: Vélo cargo en essai / Cargo bike on test







    Let me know what you think.
    Guillaume

    Cycles Golem

  2. #2
    biking where I'm going
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    I can't tell from the images, but it appears that the front rack is frame-mounted rather than fork-mounted. YAY!

    twenty-inch wheels (I'm assuming 406mm)--ought to be just about bomb-proof!

    Hope it works well for you!
    Getting where I'm going--by bicycle!

    1996 Ryan Vanguard
    2010 Globe Vienna 3 Disc
    2012 Surly Big Dummy

  3. #3
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    Yep, the front rack is frame mounted. On the next bikes it will be a little different and bolted so I'll be able to make diffrent racks for different uses.

    Also the lower rear racks were not on the pictures but they are telescopic. I'm not sure how it will behave on long term but the next ones will be on hinges.
    Guillaume

    Cycles Golem

  4. #4
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    Very, very nice! I want one!

  5. #5
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    Thanks Owven, let me workout the little bugs and by next spring I'll have a few available.
    Guillaume

    Cycles Golem

  6. #6
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    Nice design. I've been thinking alot about the best design for a town/cargo bike as well. Your design is a lot like what i've been thinking. Are you familiar with the Xtravois 2? It also is very similar and is one of the best implementations i've seen so far. Good luck with yours, i think you're onto a great bike!

    I like: small wheels (stronger and lower cargo height), step through frame, frame-mounted front rack, xtra-compatible (or similar anyway) rear racks. Make sure it will easily accommodate electric assist kits as well. That is critical for any cargo bike in my opinion.
    Last edited by TroyS600; 07-09-2012 at 07:06 AM.
    Bend, OR

  7. #7
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    Broken link?

    Quote Originally Posted by TroyS600 View Post
    Nice design. I've been thinking alot about the best design for a town/cargo bike as well. Your design is a lot like what i've been thinking. Are you familiar with the Xtravois 2?...
    The link didn't work for me, but I assume that you meant (link in next post - YAY!)

    Being a cargo bike fan I always enjoy seeing new designs. Good work Guillaume!

  8. #8
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    Having lurked about here for a very long time I hadn't posted enough to include links, but now I've reached the magic number 10!

    Here is the link: https://clevercycles.com/blog/2011/0...manifest-bike/

  9. #9
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    Mikva, yes that is the page i meant to link to, thank you. I fixed my link also.
    Bend, OR

  10. #10
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    Golem, how does that kick stand work? It looks like both sides must operate together, but i don't see anything attaching them.
    Bend, OR

  11. #11
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    I've seen the Xtravois 2 while I was drawing mine. I was a little bummed that our designed were similar but then I thought I was on the right path.

    The kickstand is, well... special. The tester for the prototype asked for a lever actuated kickstant à la rolling jackass. The cables were not installed when I took the pictures. Let's say that I should have been more persuasive and did my own design. Next one will be a lot better and simpler.
    Guillaume

    Cycles Golem

  12. #12
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    Golem Builder, what is the triangle on the seatstays for? Nice design btw.

  13. #13
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    Midship electric assist mounting point? Say yes! :-)
    Bend, OR

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by inoy View Post
    Golem Builder, what is the triangle on the seatstays for? Nice design btw.
    In this case it's a reinfocement for the telescopic upper rack which you can see there :



    But it can serve as an electric assist mount I guess.

    Speaking of electric assist, I'm not a big fan myself but I can understant it can benefit other people. That said, do you guys know which are the most popular devices?

    I know the stoke monkey seems to be popular but is there anything else?
    I have access to the BionX units too but I think the motor hub will be too big for a 20'' wheel.
    Guillaume

    Cycles Golem

  15. #15
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    My opinion, for what its worth, is that any cargo bike MUST be made with electric assist in mind. It is such a wonderful feature. And if you don't want it, you don't have to have it, but some people will want it and making your bike work well with it will make it more competitive in the market place.

    Electric assist is what converts a cargo bike into a truly viable option for car-replacement for those riders who are not already bicycle fanatics. It makes the bike much faster and much less physically demanding. I'm a fairly strong cyclist and when i'm on a mt bike ride and i intend to work hard and get sweaty, then i don't mind working hard and getting sweaty. When i need to run some errands mid-day and it's hot outside, I don't want to work hard and get sweaty. I might often take my car. But with the E-assist, i don't have to get so hot and sweaty, and i can get my errands done more quickly.

    The stokemonkey is no longer in production but people are making their own. Personally, i believe the midship design is probably the best (compared to hub motors in the wheel) but not really worth the extra cost/complexity unless you live somewhere really hilly.

    My wife and I each have longtail cargo bikes with front hub motors (non-geared) and they work very well even on moderately steep hills. On the very steep hills, geared hub motors would be better and a mid-drive would be better yet. But the only hills we encounter regularly that are that steep are pretty short, so they're still not much of a problem.

    Anyway, back to the point, regarding designing a bike to be e-friendly, there isn't a lot that you have to do. Basically, just making a convenient place for the battery is about all that's necessary for hub motor kits. For mid-drive kits it's more complicated and you'll need a place for the batter and a place to attach the motor. Although, some of the mid drive kits are just made to attach to a conventional seat tube and may not require any special design considerations as long as your frame isn't wildly unconventional.
    Bend, OR

  16. #16
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    Troy,

    I share your thoughts about the electric assistance.

    Thanks for the pointers, I think it would be easy to fit a battery somewhere on the frame.

    That said, there are pretty good hills in my city so if I want local people to get into this I must propose the best motor I can find to haul loads up these hills.
    Guillaume

    Cycles Golem

  17. #17
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    Top speed usually isn't terribly important (or in some cases legal) and geared hub motors have a nice appearance and are fairly hi-torque. They are also cheap and very easy to work with compared to mid-drives. I suspect they will provide enough power at 36 or 48 volts to satisfy customers even in hilly areas with all but the most extreme loads and hills.

    I'm excited to hear how your bike performs and see it enter production. It's a great time for cycling. I was talking to my wife about cargo bike designs like yours and the xtravois 2 and she was concerned that they "look funny" with the front rack and 20" wheels. If a person doesn't have experience using cargo bikes, they may not understand the advantages of a design like yours and may be prone to buy something else that looks more traditional. I hope that's not the case, but it seems a legitimate concern.
    Bend, OR

  18. #18
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    Indeed, top speed is not really important.

    Funny look or clown bike is usually what people think of small wheeled bikes. But once they try it, they understand the merits of it.

    I'll do one more prototype this fall and probalby will build 5 units over the winter/spring to sell them for summertime. Then I'll see if there is enough demand for it.

    Thanks!
    Guillaume

    Cycles Golem

  19. #19
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    I have often thought such a bike might be nice. When I have loaded up my Mundo on both ends (I have the frame mounted " bread basket" on the front) I notice a potential problem that needs consideration. When you have a significant load attached to the frame at both ends, you have a textbook mechanical oscillator. The loads have a large moment of inertia, and the frame is a low loss torsion spring. Any sudden steering input excites this oscillator, and results in a shimmy. On my Mundo, this damps out without too much drama, but if it were to interact with the steering in phase, it could be a real issue.

    This is in contrast to my experience with fork mounted front racks, which give heavy steering when loaded up, but feel very stable.

    I think to make this work well, the frame will need to have exceptionally high torsional stiffness.

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