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Thread: Build Questions

  1. #1
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    Build Questions

    I'll preface the post by saying I did search the site first to make sure I'm not duplicating entries. So, with that said...

    A year ago I got a screamin' deal on a used 2010 18" Big Dummy complete. The frame is too small, but it's been fine as an around town grocery getter. I want something to tour the back roads of the mountain west, so I need a better fit. The other day I plunked down the plastic for a 2011/2012 22" BD frameset. It should be here in a couple days. In preparation, I've been looking on-line and talking to friends about how I should go about the build. So, here are my questions:

    1. If I cannibalize the parts off the 18", what's a good asking price for a used 2010 frame?

    2. If I swap part between 2010 and 2011 frames does anyone know if there are any compatibility issues?

    The rest of the questions pertain if I decide to do a build up:

    1. Surly site says 36 hole rims. Mandatory? Would thicker gauge spokes work on a 32 hole rim. The majority of the wheelsets I see on-line are 32 hole and there are a lot of DH rims that are 32H - I'd think they're strong enough, no?

    2. Brakes - rim, hydraulic disc or mechanical disc? I will be in the back woods with this bike, so I want dependable but I'll also be descending a lot so I want efficient. I'm not going to have crazy heavy loads while touring - 50ish lbs plus me and the bike.

    For anyone running hydraulics on the rear brake, any issues other than long brake lines? For anyone running mechanical discs, any issues with the long cable?

    It seems like there is a wider selection of rims if I put disc brakes on, especially used/affordable wheelsets.

    3. 650b would work on the BD wouldn't they?

    4. What's should I expect to spend on middle of the line components group for this build?

    Any other words of wisdom welcome.
    Last edited by Bong_Crosby; 10-08-2012 at 10:42 AM.

  2. #2
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    the old bike was a BD too?

    I'll answer the questions that I think I know the answer to.

    1. I'm not sure, but I would say check ebay. if it's got the curved top tube, some may consider it more desireable. My guess: $450.
    2. I'm pretty sure all will be the same. you may need new, longer cables, possibly a piece or two of housing

    1. good luck finding high quality <14 gauge spokes. cheapo 13 gauge spokes might be strong at first, but they are likely to fail much earlier from fatigue due to crappy materials and production. You could use dt alpine spokes, but you might as well spend that money on higher spoke count and stick with straight 14 ga (2mm) spokes.
    More spokes would be good, but it depends on your budget, your intended load, and intended trails, as well as your own weight, how you ride it, etc. If you weigh 120lbs and you're carrying 30lbs of gear and you go slow down every hill, you might get away with a 28 spoke wheel. If you're 225lbs and you have 150lbs of gear and you plan on flying down huge hills with tons of bumps, you might want to go with 48 spoke wheels and huge tires.

    2. both will work. disc brakes are a huge advantage when the rim is wet or muddy or the rim is likely to suffer some damage. Rim brakes will rub a damaged rim and might slow you down substantially if its bad enough. Rim brakes are everywhere and you are more likely to find replacement parts. Even some huffy that's been abandoned on the side of the road will very likely have some useful rim brake parts.

    Rim brakes wear out your rims over time.

    disc brake front wheels are weaker due to narrower flanges and uneven spoke tension from left to right.

    if you go hydraulic, back country fixes will be terribly difficult.

    3. if you go 650b, the wheel is effectively weaker with everything else held the same. If you want the momentum, put on some huge tires. Tires are also harder to find. I recommend you stick with 559 iso 26" wheels

  3. #3
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    Used frame/fork I'd expect would be around $500.

    For the wheels, I'd run 36 hole unless you have a good reason not to, like a rohloff or dyno hub. Gives you a little extra security. Mine were built with DT competition butted spokes and brass nipples, and I haven't touched them in almost 2 years, probably 6,000 miles. My freehub will probably give out before anything. If you really want beefy spokes, look for Sapim Strong or Tandem spokes (I've seen them called both). I used them on a tandem 650b wheel set and they are very burly.

    650b wheels fit, tires up to 40mm have plenty of clearance, but 2.35's rubbed. A 2.1 would probably fit with minimal clearance, maybe not room for fenders.

    I'm running hydros, 180 f&r, two years no issues. It won't be any more problematic than a traditional ingle bid hydro setup. I'm not a fan of mechanicals anyway, andte long cable run would just compound my gripe. I have mechanicals on my tandem and they're ok, just not as nice as hydros. For me, the hydros feel the same every time, all the time.

    If I were buying a new group, I would buy an SLX kit or maybe the new lower cost DH stuff from shimano, which is reportedly around the SLX quality level. Serviceable stuff without being too expensive to replace.

    My drivetrain, brake pads, rotors are destroyed every year after the winter, so it all gets replaced. Good timing for the bike swap in January for replacement rings and such. My tires go about 15-18 months before wearing out. My schwalbes were a year old in August and I don't think they'll make it all winter..

    Plum
    This post is in 3B, three beers and it looks good eh!

  4. #4
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    I'd say go to your LBS and ask them how much they charge for building wheels for you, if you like me lack the equipment to do so yourself.

    The problem with the DH-wheels you see with fewer spokes is that they probably come fitted with beefy hubs (thru axles and all) that won't fit your Dummy, which runs ordinary QR-hubs. Finding super solid wheels with QR-hubs might prove to be a challenge if you browse off the shelf wheels.

    I would say that a more practical solution is to have your LBS find some cheap end of summer sale on solid rims (I am currently waiting for a 36h wheelset with Mavic EX729 rims) as well as cheap and reliable hub with QR (I went for the budget option with Deore m595-hubs).

  5. #5
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    I'm still a newbie, but I've been researching a BD for myself. Waiting for it come in at the LBS now....
    Quote Originally Posted by Bong_Crosby View Post
    1. If I cannibalize the parts off the 18", what's a good asking price for a used 2010 frame?
    Probably depends on the buyer. The new 2011 frames are going for 950. I'd think 500-750 is in the ballpark, if the frame is in good shape.

    2. If I swap part between 2010 and 2011 frames does anyone know if there are any compatibility issues?
    No idea on this one.... sorry

    1. Surly site says 36 hole rims. Mandatory? Would thicker gauge spokes work on a 32 hole rim. The majority of the wheelsets I see on-line are 32 hole and there are a lot of DH rims that are 32H - I'd think they're strong enough, no?
    I've seen any number of people put on 32H rims; usually due to a Rohloff or something similar. Given that it's a cargo bike, I'd go with 36H unless you have a hub that's 32H only.

    2. Brakes - rim, hydraulic disc or mechanical disc? I will be in the back woods with this bike, so I want dependable but I'll also be descending a lot so I want efficient. I'm not going to have crazy heavy loads while touring - 50ish lbs plus me and the bike.

    For anyone running hydraulics on the rear brake, any issues other than long brake lines? For anyone running mechanical discs, any issues with the long cable?

    It seems like there is a wider selection of rims if I put disc brakes on, especially used/affordable wheelsets.
    Heavy loads mean need good braking. It sounds like you're likely fine either way, provided you have good breaks. Your LBS can probably give you some help here.

    3. 650b would work on the BD wouldn't they?
    I would ask Surly on this one... it's rated as 26".

    4. What's should I expect to spend on middle of the line components group for this build?
    The complete bike from Surly is $1800, so I would expect in that ballpark. The LBS I ended up at, which has built and ridden a bunch of BDs, said that they strongly recommended the complete bike, as it would be hard to match equal quality for the money for a full-up build. I ended up adding new handlebars (Jeff Jones Loop H-bars) to mine, but I would have needed another bar for the stoker anyways, so this didn't really leave me with extra components. The only thing I really ditched in the stock build was the tires; I spent $60 to get Big-Apples put on.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by evandy View Post

    I would ask Surly on this one... it's rated as 26".
    Regarding 650b wheels, I have personally fit them. A 2.1 is maxing out clearance and may not allow fenders. A 2.3 did not fit inside the rear cross members, but very close.

    Plum
    This post is in 3B, three beers and it looks good eh!

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