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  1. #1001
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    Quote Originally Posted by AWDfreak
    Sacrilege!!!

    Subaru doesn't make a V6, it's a flat-6!!! (AKA H6)


    Unfortunately for me, I have a flashing "CHECK ENGINE" light, so I won't be driving my Outback anytime soon. So no trail riding for me Just urban bike paths...
    LOL, yes, yes, boxer 6, I know. Forgive my momentary disconnect between brain and fingers.

    Looks like I'll be waiting til the 2012s come out either way. The one I test drove sold and the dealers said they stopped taking orders on 2011s ~ a month ago and couldn't find a Premium w/ a stick and the HK any where in the country.

  2. #1002
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sid Nitzerglobin
    LOL, yes, yes, boxer 6, I know. Forgive my momentary disconnect between brain and fingers.

    Looks like I'll be waiting til the 2012s come out either way. The one I test drove sold and the dealers said they stopped taking orders on 2011s ~ a month ago and couldn't find a Premium w/ a stick and the HK any where in the country.
    Wow, Subaru's already making model year 2012s! Sucks you can't find a Premium with a manual and the (presumably) Harman Kardon audio system.

    Hope you find what you want soon though, sucks that in the USA, it's extremely difficult to find a manual

  3. #1003
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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by zombinate
    greetings all. I have a '99 Legacy Outback, and am looking to install a hitch. Ideally I would like a 2" receiver for car rack compatibility (like the Thule revolver which is 2" only), but I am only finding the 1 1/4 size. I know that the car is not rated for the towing capacity that goes with the 2" hitch, but was hopeful that someone has a lead on one.
    Try www.etrailer.com for a hitch. It is where I bought mine and they ship fast too. No affiliation just a happy customer. If they don't have it than either you may need to use an adapter to go from 1 1/4" to 2" for the rack, or keep looking...
    The 1 1/4" hitch size is usually for cars that aren't designed to tow much if anything at all....
    Current ride(s) 2011 Santa Cruz Blur LT and a Norco Threshold SL with Di2

  4. #1004
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    Most Subaru 4 cylinders are only rated to tow 2000 or so pounds, so even getting a class III 2" hitch won't change your tow rating. Tongue weight is roughly 200 pounds as well. The only good reason to get a 2" is compatibility with most hitch accessories, like racks and platforms. That, and they are way cheaper than the OEM version by far. I hate the way the aftermarket ones hang down, so I'm going to have to pony up for an OEM ($385 is the cheapest I could find) for my new Forester.

  5. #1005
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    Quote Originally Posted by AWDfreak
    Sacrilege!!!

    Subaru doesn't make a V6, it's a flat-6!!! (AKA H6)


    Unfortunately for me, I have a flashing "CHECK ENGINE" light, so I won't be driving my Outback anytime soon. So no trail riding for me Just urban bike paths...
    Actually it's a boxer-6, which is quite a different animal than a flat-6.

  6. #1006
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAL9000
    Actually it's a boxer-6, which is quite a different animal than a flat-6.

  7. #1007
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    Hey just as a heads up to anyone looking to buy a 2011 Impreza, we learned recently that dealers are NOT getting any more allocations of them... which means that whatever is on dealer lots, aside from a few straggler units not delivered yet but in shipment, is ALL they have until the 2012 Impreza drops, which is supposedly "Fall 2011". Which sucks. We have like 8 in stock and are getting in an STI at the end of the month, and that was a factory order.

    I say that because I notice that this is also driving up the prices of 1 or 2 year old Imprezas as well. And it's not going to get any better, so if you want a 2009-11 Impreza and don't want to wait for the all new 2012, buy now!

  8. #1008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sid Nitzerglobin
    LOL, yes, yes, boxer 6, I know. Forgive my momentary disconnect between brain and fingers.

    Looks like I'll be waiting til the 2012s come out either way. The one I test drove sold and the dealers said they stopped taking orders on 2011s ~ a month ago and couldn't find a Premium w/ a stick and the HK any where in the country.
    Factory orders ended about 2 weeks ago. Your best bet is to wait, like you said, if you're super particular about little options or colors.

    But, I just did a search and there are allegedly ten BDC-05's (2.5i 6 speed Premium with all-weather pkg and HK) available nationwide. NJ, TX, MI, IA, IN, IN, OR, OR, CA, MT.

    You live in any of those states?

    There's also allegedly eight BDC-09's (same thing but also w/moonroof) nationwide. NY, NY, NJ, NJ, OH, IL, CO, NV. And if you don't need the HK radio there's maybe 45 of those cars showing nationwide.

    If you want more info on those cars PM me with what state you're local to and I'll give you the dealer contact info. Edit: I looked in your profile and saw you're from Ohio, I don't know how far of a drive it is to Indianapolis from you but there is one dealer there showing an Azurite Blue BDC-05, and also a Steel Silver, in inventory, and they both have recent invoice dates, so they may actually still be in stock.

    The thing about factory ordering is when the new model year rolls out, they don't always go crazy with the stick shift cars right away it seems, so if you wait for one to pop up on a lot somewhere it might be a while. Plus I ordered a few stick shift Outback Premiums over the past year for clients and it seems like those orders take a bit longer than the automatic cars. So I'd recommend a road trip for a 2011!
    Last edited by XJaredX; 05-07-2011 at 06:50 PM.

  9. #1009
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    I was actually hoping to get one w/ 6MT, ULEV, All Weather, HK, and moonroof (along w/ protection package and a bunch of the other accessories/port installed add ons.). With a few exceptions, I never met a bell or whistle I didn't like, unfortunately. I am pretty particular about options and was just resigned to ordering if I wind up doing the Scooby. I'm a little more flexible on color.

    I'm still waiting for my MINI dealer to get an MT Countryman S ALL4 in so I can do a comparo and test bike fit. Drove one w/ an auto a few weeks ago and it felt almost identical to my MCS handling-wise driving it at ~ 6-7/10ths or so, albeit a little bigger/heavier and w/ the additional fun of the rotate, point, and shoot cornering technique opened up by the Haldex. I wouldn't get nearly the clearance, space, or light duty off-road ability of the Outback w/ the Countyman, but it was approaching an order of magnitude more fun on pavement and my best guess is that it would probably get me another 4-5 mpg in mixed driving. It would probably wind up running me another $ 4-5K over the Outback though. Need to do the bike hauling test to see if it's a viable option for me or I can mark it off the list.

    I'm actually in OH, I'm wondering if the Outback examples you listed just came in over the past few weeks. I had a couple different dealers do inventory searches, maybe they were just being lazy or trying to move their existing inventory. Last one I was at was the one who told me that they weren't taking any more orders on 2011s, ~ a week after the earthquake/tsunami. I'd be really interested in the info on the 2 in IN and one in OH if you don't mind firing it my way.

    Thanks man!

  10. #1010
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    The ending of factory orders usually happens a few months before the 2012's start being produced.

    A few of the cars I listed showed up at dealers towards the end of April, but also maybe these cars were just too far away for your dealer to bother with. As a general rule of thumb, I try to stay within 200 miles when I trade cars with other dealers for my clients. Outside that, it gets to be a logistical pain in the ass, which ends up costing the customer money. So that could be why. But that could also just mean a nice little road trip for you equals a new car. I'll PM you the info in a few.

  11. #1011
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAL9000
    Actually it's a boxer-6, which is quite a different animal than a flat-6.
    Boxer-6 it is, as it is not a 180 degree V6. The boxer-6 has 6 crankpins rather than the 3 crankpins of a 180 degree V6? Or something?

  12. #1012
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    New to this forum. Have a 2009 Legacy. Looking to equip it with an El Mariachi as soon as our LBS gets a small in.

  13. #1013
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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by biketowork101
    New to this forum. Have a 2009 Legacy. Looking to equip it with an El Mariachi as soon as our LBS gets a small in.
    Your Soobie will appreciate that!!
    Current ride(s) 2011 Santa Cruz Blur LT and a Norco Threshold SL with Di2

  14. #1014
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    Forester question (I tried a search)

    Can a DH bike (long travel, long wb, dual crown fork) fit in the rear with seats down, standing up, front wheel removed? I'd like to be able to fit 2 DH bikes plus gear bags in back. I'm hoping the hatch entry and roof are high enough; and the space is long enough.

    Thx and sorry if this has already been asked.
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  15. #1015
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpet View Post
    Forester question (I tried a search)

    Can a DH bike (long travel, long wb, dual crown fork) fit in the rear with seats down, standing up, front wheel removed? I'd like to be able to fit 2 DH bikes plus gear bags in back. I'm hoping the hatch entry and roof are high enough; and the space is long enough.

    Thx and sorry if this has already been asked.
    I believe this will depend largely on the individual measurements of your sled(s), saddle height (if you need to keep it at usual height), etc.

    Don't have the measurements for the Forester specifically, but the 2011 Outback had a minimal vertical hatch clearance of somewhere in the neighborhood of 33" IIRC. I've got a sheet for the Outback at home listing out all specific clearance measurements that the dealer gave me that I can dig up to verify if you want. Not sure if this would be directly applicable to the Forrester, but it's been my impression that they aren't that far off.

  16. #1016
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    My sled is grand.

    I think my question is ludicrous, after casually inspecting a few Foresters parked on my block just now. Doesn't look much bigger than my '02 WRX wagon on the inside.
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  17. #1017
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpet View Post
    My sled is grand.

    I think my question is ludicrous, after casually inspecting a few Foresters parked on my block just now. Doesn't look much bigger than my '02 WRX wagon on the inside.
    I hadn't done an actual test fit, but based on measurements of my 21" Rockhopper (tallest bike me or my friends have) it should fit upright in the back of the Outback w/ the rear passenger seat dropped and the front wheel removed and seat post dropped w/ enough room to spare to use a DiY fork mounting system w/ a 3/4" plywood base.

    Dropping the seat post on your DH bikes might be a bit more of a PITA if you don't have a QR collar though. I'd do a max height measurement of the bikes you want to throw in there and see.

    The new Foresters I looked at seemed to have at least as much vertical hatch clearance and length when you drop one of the rear seats as the Outbacks by my eyeball. I could be wrong though.

  18. #1018
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    The 09+ Foresters have a slightly taller cargo area, but it is a few inches shorter, and a tad narrower.

    Plus they are wayyyyyyyy roomier than a GD Impreza

    With that said, I dunno about standing a DH bike upright. I know if you laid them on their sides one on top of the other (blanket in between?) they would fit, as my '01 does this and the 09+ cars are bigger

  19. #1019
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    2006 Outback XT


  20. #1020
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    Thought I would post a pic of my WRX with the EDM (Mont Blanc) Rack.


  21. #1021
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    Quote Originally Posted by RSBiker View Post
    She's sittin at 171K miles and goin strong. It had the head gasket recall done before I got it. No autocross done with it but I do have a 14 acre field that I run it around in every once in a while.

    Overall its been a great car. Its my second RS, I had a 2000 a few years back and then an '05 STI.




    Wish I still had that car.
    nice wheels but get rid of that back trunk whale tail fixture.

  22. #1022
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    Did you scan it?

    Quote Originally Posted by AWDfreak View Post
    Sacrilege!!!

    Subaru doesn't make a V6, it's a flat-6!!! (AKA H6)


    Unfortunately for me, I have a flashing "CHECK ENGINE" light, so I won't be driving my Outback anytime soon. So no trail riding for me Just urban bike paths...
    Most of the time, Check Engine lights are on because the driver didin't screw the gas cap on tightly enough, or the seal is bad on the gas cap. Super easy fix.

  23. #1023
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    Quote Originally Posted by roc865 View Post
    nice wheels but get rid of that back trunk whale tail fixture.
    That wing and the wheels both came stock on an STi from the factory.

  24. #1024
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    Can't tell by the photo, but it was suffocatingly hot out on the home trail this weekend.

  25. #1025
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    Just posted in the dirty/clean thread but figure I'd post here too. Just finally picked up a bike off craigslist. Its a haro hardtail(dunno the actual model). Sorry for the crappy iphone pic. Hopefully I can eventually get a roof rack so it can be shown off properly. Get better pics tomorrow in the day light when I go out for a ride.


  26. #1026
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    ^^ Yay! Another bugeye WRX wagon

  27. #1027
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    I know very little about subaru other than what i read in comsumer reports. are they super reliable and good for outdoors? i would be looking at possibly a new forester.

  28. #1028
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    Yes and yes

  29. #1029
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    Quote Originally Posted by 012.5RS View Post
    Yes and yes
    i've read a few consumer reviews that say they are noisy. any truth to this?

  30. #1030
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    Ive never driven a new forester but, I have 3 subarus and have owned 4. And will continue to buy them.

  31. #1031
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    Quote Originally Posted by 012.5RS View Post
    Ive never driven a new forester but, I have 3 subarus and have owned 4. And will continue to buy them.
    do you own any foresters and if so what's your opinion about the noise level?

  32. #1032
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    No I don't subarus tend to have some wind noise due to lack of window frame.

  33. #1033
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    Quote Originally Posted by 012.5RS View Post
    No I don't subarus tend to have some wind noise due to lack of window frame.
    you mean the window frames are the weak point or are poorly built?

  34. #1034
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    There is no frame at all.

  35. #1035
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    2011 WRX Sedan, Dark Gray Metallic. Love it, debating roof rack but wife has an SUV for bike transport.

  36. #1036
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    '05 WRX and my Pivot about to have it's cherry broken on Gooseberry Mesa.


  37. #1037
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    Quote Originally Posted by 012.5RS View Post
    There is no frame at all.
    i wonder why.

  38. #1038
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    Quote Originally Posted by roc865 View Post
    i wonder why.
    Why is there no window frame on the door?

    I'm guessing because Subaru has a thing about A-pillar strength. That really is a guess, some cars have them, some don't.

  39. #1039
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    FWIW, the new foresters (09+) do have window frames.

    I test drove one a while back and didn't notice it being any noisier than anything else in it's class. Your opinion on the noise level will depend on what you're used to though. It's not a Lexus, but it didn't seem any louder than the CRV, Element or Rav4.
    Those who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither. - Ben Franklin

  40. #1040
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    Thx for input. I'm a more old school suby fan. Subies are like big legos. You can take almost any part from one year car and put it on another year. Plus if u get a second set of wheels with blizzak tires you'll run through snow likes it's not even there in the winter. Here's a link to a bunch of lifted and rally prepped subies.

    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1228188


    Here are my current 3 and my old one(better pics of my legacy when new wheels are on).
    Weekend off road toy:

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    Old wrx swapped RS:

  41. #1041
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Idea View Post
    FWIW, the new foresters (09+) do have window frames.

    I test drove one a while back and didn't notice it being any noisier than anything else in it's class. Your opinion on the noise level will depend on what you're used to though. It's not a Lexus, but it didn't seem any louder than the CRV, Element or Rav4.
    i'm sure it's quieter than the beater i'm driving now. my drivers side door has had damage to it for 6 years and it sounds like a wind tunnel in my car.

  42. #1042
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    Quote Originally Posted by 012.5RS View Post
    No I don't subarus tend to have some wind noise due to lack of window frame.
    It was more that as the age of the car got up there, the window seal tended to dry up over time.

    In any event, all new Subarus have window frames, as of 2009.

    Also, the 2009 Forester is within a fraction of a dB in terms of interior noise level as a CRV. One of them is quieter at idle, the other quieter at speed, but the difference is negligible.

    Now, my '01 on the other hand...

  43. #1043
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    When I showed up at the trail head in my 11 WRX and only a single bike carrier on it, I was called a selfish bastard by the shuttlers. They were right.

    Quote Originally Posted by richde View Post
    '05 WRX and my Pivot about to have it's cherry broken on Gooseberry Mesa.
    Slow-core. -.. .-. .. -. -.- .... --- -- . -... .-. . .--

  44. #1044
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    ^^^^ that swapped RS must absolutely haul ass.
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  45. #1045
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    ^^
    TBE
    UP with 38mm ewg
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    It did... right into a deer

  46. #1046
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    A boxxer-6 is a type of flat 6...and by far the most common type.

    Have you guys heard about the steering wheel shake issue on the 2010+ Outbacks and Legacys? Subaru is throwing all kinds of band-aids on as TSBs, but many times it doesn't go away. Many are fine, but often the shakes don't show up for thousands of miles, so this could affect quite a few in the future. I'm ready to get one, but don't want to risk buying something with an irrepairable problem!

    Any word if the Outback will get the FB engine next year? It's supposed to drive about the same, but be 10% more efficient, have a timing chain, and have seperate cooling systems for the block and head, making for a closed-deck and solid head gasket.

  47. #1047
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    ^
    I sell Subarus... with that said, being as how I'm not trying to sell YOU one, I will say you should just buy one without worrying. The problem affects so FEW, it's just been blown out of proportion because of the internet forums. There were bandaids at first, but this far in, they've got the fix down.

    There is zero word at this point about the FB25 engine. Initial dealer deliveries of '12 Outbacks will supposedly be in late September. I typically have to source my info from the internet, as if I were to wait for announcements from SoA to the dealers, that happens like 5 minutes before the cars show up.

    The FB engine seems to be doing good in the Forester so far. Frankly, I don't really care about timing chain vs belt, but the other changes (and there are many) are very cool.

    I personally am excited about the 2012 Impreza with the FB20. I may be replacing my '01 Forester S with a 5-speed '12 Impreza.

    Also, from a sales standpoint, I really wish that 2012 is the year that the Forester gets the CVT! Haters gonna hate on the internet but in Real Life, people love the CVT, it's sooooo much better in every way compared to the 4EAT.

  48. #1048
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    I have a 2000 Legacy GT 2.5L 5 speed wagon. I've had it for about 2 years and like it so far. it has 115K on it. I don't have a rack for hauling my bike so I use my truck for bike hauling. I have a hard time buying a 600 dollar Yak-rack to carry a 500 dollar bike.
    The only things that bug me about my Subie is that it is a little weak on the power side, I have big feet and the pedals are WAY too close together. When I have my work boots on I find myself stomping all over my own feet and usually nailing the clutch and brake pedal at the same time if I'm not careful.
    I also don't like the windows.....not having a frame all the way around the windows is stupid. Driving down the highway my vehicle sounds like a wind tunnel thanks to the crappy seal around the window edges.

    However....those are fairly minor dislikes when you look at the big picture. My subaru was kind of an impulse buy. Wife and I were cruising through town and it just happened to catch my eye. So I bought it. For 4,500 bucks I'm happy with it. I'll probably drive it till the wheels fall off then who knows what I'll buy next.

  49. #1049
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    I personally am excited about the 2012 Impreza with the FB20.
    +1

    I REALLY hope the STI rumors floating around NASIOC are true . . . . if they are, then they will be out just as my Forester lease is up.

  50. #1050
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    My 2011 WRX



  51. #1051
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFYFZX View Post
    My 2011 WRX


    which hitch adapter did you use?
    WHEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!
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  52. #1052
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    Quote Originally Posted by OO7 View Post
    +1

    I REALLY hope the STI rumors floating around NASIOC are true . . . . if they are, then they will be out just as my Forester lease is up.
    link for those of us too lazy to google?
    WHEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!
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  53. #1053
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  54. #1054
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    Quote Originally Posted by oo7 View Post
    but will they make a hatch???
    WHEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!
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  55. #1055
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    Quote Originally Posted by laxman2001 View Post
    but will they make a hatch???
    I'm guessing yes, but who know's . . . sales of the new body style (08+) hatch have been good for the Impreza line in general, and I would be surprised if they abandoned it. But then again, starting with 2012 the rumors are that the WRX and STI will no longer be based on the Impreza.

  56. #1056
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    Well, they've been trying to separate the Impreza from the WRX/STi models even though they're all built on the same platform. It would be interesting to see how they proceed if they truly want to differentiate the two.

  57. #1057
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    Quote Originally Posted by laxman2001 View Post
    which hitch adapter did you use?
    No adapter. Are you asking, what hitch did I use? This one: http://www.curtmfg.com/index.cfm?eve...ductCode=11120

    Made by Curt. Product #111200. The Saris Thelma rack comes in 1 and 1/4" OR 2" tongue versions. I obviously have the 1 and 1/4" model for a Class 1 hitch. The rack comes with an adapter to use on 2" hitches so I can also use it on my wife's 4Runner

  58. #1058
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    I was curious this morning on my trip home from where I stayed last night. I have had my Subaru for damn close to two years and realized that I've never put the hammer down and let 'er eat so to speak. Kind of a surprise because normally a full throttle balls-out run is part of the test drive before I buy a vehicle. (no the salesmen usually don't approve but by the time they realize what is happening it's too late they are along for the ride)
    Pretty impressed I got just a needle width under 120mph out of the little bugger. If I would have not been hauling camping/fishing stuff with me, and shut the A/C off I probably could have gotten 125 out of it. However the speedo only goes to 120. The little puke surprised me....I figured it wouldn't hit much more than 105-110 at best.

  59. #1059
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    2011 Outback, 3.6R Limited with all the trimmings; will pick up in the 'morrow.

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    2010 wrx hatch world rally blue




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  61. #1061
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    Can I say something here? ... WTF did Subaru do to the roof rails on the new Outback? Dayum, the car looks nice... except for beating it senseless with an ugly stick around the roof racks!! Kinda ruins the whole car for me.

    No offense to any new Outback owners here, but dayummmm. Kinda turned me off of it.

  62. #1062
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFYFZX View Post
    No adapter. Are you asking, what hitch did I use? This one: http://www.curtmfg.com/index.cfm?eve...ductCode=11120

    Made by Curt. Product #111200. The Saris Thelma rack comes in 1 and 1/4" OR 2" tongue versions. I obviously have the 1 and 1/4" model for a Class 1 hitch. The rack comes with an adapter to use on 2" hitches so I can also use it on my wife's 4Runner
    Never mind, just realized you had a WRX.
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  63. #1063
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haligan78 View Post
    I have had my Subaru for damn close to two years and realized that I've never put the hammer down and let 'er eat so to speak.


    Man, when I had my WRX . . . a wide-open-throttle-bounce-the-tach-off-the-rev-limiter pull was part of my daily commute!!! 2nd gear was always the best for those

    Damn I miss that car

  64. #1064
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    Can I say something here? ... WTF did Subaru do to the roof rails on the new Outback? Dayum, the car looks nice... except for beating it senseless with an ugly stick around the roof racks!! Kinda ruins the whole car for me.

    No offense to any new Outback owners here, but dayummmm. Kinda turned me off of it.
    i dunno. i'm not an outback owner but i don't see what you're seeing. looks fine to me.

  65. #1065
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    Quote Originally Posted by roc865 View Post
    i dunno. i'm not an outback owner but i don't see what you're seeing. looks fine to me.
    Me neither; granted, the Thule crossbars I just installed (I just picked her up and dayum, she's a hotty) are a bit closer together, otherwise the side rail design is fine.

  66. #1066
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    Quote Originally Posted by TraumaARNP View Post
    2011 Outback, 3.6R Limited with all the trimmings; will pick up in the 'morrow.
    Cha Ching!

  67. #1067
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    Squaring the circles.

  68. #1068
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    Can I say something here? ... WTF did Subaru do to the roof rails on the new Outback? Dayum, the car looks nice... except for beating it senseless with an ugly stick around the roof racks!! Kinda ruins the whole car for me.

    No offense to any new Outback owners here, but dayummmm. Kinda turned me off of it.
    In the North American market, Subaru had the ingenious idea of coming up with swivelling crossbars. They tuck in along the sides when you're not using them to cut down on wind noise, and when you are using them, they swing horizontally. They are chunkier to accomodate the swivelling/storage aspect.

    In theory, this is a neato idea, and I've noticed it appeals to everyone who never uses their rack.

    In reality, rack-o-philes (and there are a lot of them who drive Subarus) seem to not like the setup very much, for various reasons.

    Thule (Maybe also Yakima too now) has a workaround which has horizontal bars that clamp to the stored OEM crossbars, and this is a good thing, unless you need your bars to be further apart than this setup allows.

    Notice how I said "in the North American market" ...

    Here's a UK spec Outback, notice the normal rails, to which normal crossbars can be attached anywhere along them:


    ...I likely will be getting a 2012 Outback at some point over the next year, and I'm sort of considering having one of the technicians here at work take apart the OEM rack and seeing if i can import a UK rail to fit without major modification. The investigating will involve removing the headliner and some other stuff, but in theory it should be a clean swap.

    Of course, this isn't really necessary, so I may never do it, but I'm throwing this out there in case anyone is frustrated with their rack. Most of my customers who've had complaints about the North American rack have found workarounds that have satisfied them (mainly the Thule adapters). The only people who are really frustrated are those with certain cargo boxes and such that require crossbars spaced further apart.

    In any event, the rack should not be a deal-breaker, the Outback is a fantastic car.

  69. #1069
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    [QUOTE=XJaredX;8263246]^
    I sell Subarus... with that said, being as how I'm not trying to sell YOU one, I will say you should just buy one without worrying. The problem affects so FEW, it's just been blown out of proportion because of the internet forums. There were bandaids at first, but this far in, they've got the fix down.
    /QUOTE]

    Really? I think not. My 11 OB developed the "shakes" after 8K and a friends 10 OB after 11K.
    From what I hear and read, the major TSB is NOT a guaranteed "fix." This is REALLY sad. But I love my car and its is a very minimal shimmy. I am brining it to the dealer next weeks and will jump through all their hops and one "fix" is applied before I can get the TSB done. I hope it only needs the RFB and that's it.

    But its a great car and I would recommend it to anyone, shakes, shimmy and all.

    Sadly SOA have not been upfront and honest about this fix and SHOULD issue a recall.
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  70. #1070
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    In the North American market, Subaru had the ingenious idea of coming up with swivelling crossbars. They tuck in along the sides when you're not using them to cut down on wind noise, and when you are using them, they swing horizontally. They are chunkier to accomodate the swivelling/storage aspect.

    In theory, this is a neato idea, and I've noticed it appeals to everyone who never uses their rack.

    In reality, rack-o-philes (and there are a lot of them who drive Subarus) seem to not like the setup very much, for various reasons.

    Thule (Maybe also Yakima too now) has a workaround which has horizontal bars that clamp to the stored OEM crossbars, and this is a good thing, unless you need your bars to be further apart than this setup allows.

    Notice how I said "in the North American market" ...

    Here's a UK spec Outback, notice the normal rails, to which normal crossbars can be attached anywhere along them:


    ...I likely will be getting a 2012 Outback at some point over the next year, and I'm sort of considering having one of the technicians here at work take apart the OEM rack and seeing if i can import a UK rail to fit without major modification. The investigating will involve removing the headliner and some other stuff, but in theory it should be a clean swap.

    Of course, this isn't really necessary, so I may never do it, but I'm throwing this out there in case anyone is frustrated with their rack. Most of my customers who've had complaints about the North American rack have found workarounds that have satisfied them (mainly the Thule adapters). The only people who are really frustrated are those with certain cargo boxes and such that require crossbars spaced further apart.

    In any event, the rack should not be a deal-breaker, the Outback is a fantastic car.
    Swap out the rail system.

  71. #1071
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    [QUOTE=DIRT BOY;8275874]
    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    ^
    I sell Subarus... with that said, being as how I'm not trying to sell YOU one, I will say you should just buy one without worrying. The problem affects so FEW, it's just been blown out of proportion because of the internet forums. There were bandaids at first, but this far in, they've got the fix down.
    /QUOTE]

    Really? I think not. My 11 OB developed the "shakes" after 8K and a friends 10 OB after 11K.
    From what I hear and read, the major TSB is NOT a guaranteed "fix." This is REALLY sad. But I love my car and its is a very minimal shimmy. I am brining it to the dealer next weeks and will jump through all their hops and one "fix" is applied before I can get the TSB done. I hope it only needs the RFB and that's it.

    But its a great car and I would recommend it to anyone, shakes, shimmy and all.

    Sadly SOA have not been upfront and honest about this fix and SHOULD issue a recall.
    They won't do a recall for a shimmy, it will never happen because it does not affect every car, and it is not a safety issue.

  72. #1072
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    It has to do with how they mounted the steering column. It picks up more harmonic vibrations the way they've mounted it in the 2010+ generation. That is why one of the fixes is to put a weight inside the steering wheel, mounted in a way that it counters the vibrations.

    They ARE upfront and honest, in that if it happens to the car, your service department should be explaining what it is and how they will fix it- they (Subaru) are as proactive as much as they can be, so I wouldn't go to slander them like that- it took them a while to figure out the cause (as the vibrations are slight and vibrations in the steering wheel can be caused by a number of things), and they even added like 0.2 hours or something into the PDI time paid to the mechanics to drive each car to test for it. The problem is, the vibrations typically don't occur until about 75-80 mph, and service departments can't exactly ask their technicians to drive over the speed limit.

    Essentially, to completely get rid of the problem, they would have to redesign quite a lot of the car, methinks.

    Anyways, like I said, I will still gladly buy one over the next year, even after seeing the TSB's and the fixes and whatnot. That's how little this concerns me.

    Subaru takes care of their customers. I see it all the time. I see SoA go above and beyond to make the customer happy.

    To the guy who said he and his friend have the problem- assuming it's not something else like unbalanced tires or anything- the warranty rep in our area told me how many actual cases have been verified thus far, and it is a shockingly small percentage to the number of 10-11 Legacy and Outbacks that have been sold. I think in two years we've had like 3 cases at our dealership.

  73. #1073
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    In the North American market, Subaru had the ingenious idea of coming up with swivelling crossbars. They tuck in along the sides when you're not using them to cut down on wind noise, and when you are using them, they swing horizontally. They are chunkier to accomodate the swivelling/storage aspect.

    In theory, this is a neato idea, and I've noticed it appeals to everyone who never uses their rack.

    In reality, rack-o-philes (and there are a lot of them who drive Subarus) seem to not like the setup very much, for various reasons.

    Thule (Maybe also Yakima too now) has a workaround which has horizontal bars that clamp to the stored OEM crossbars, and this is a good thing, unless you need your bars to be further apart than this setup allows.

    Notice how I said "in the North American market" ...

    Here's a UK spec Outback, notice the normal rails, to which normal crossbars can be attached anywhere along them:


    ...I likely will be getting a 2012 Outback at some point over the next year, and I'm sort of considering having one of the technicians here at work take apart the OEM rack and seeing if i can import a UK rail to fit without major modification. The investigating will involve removing the headliner and some other stuff, but in theory it should be a clean swap.

    Of course, this isn't really necessary, so I may never do it, but I'm throwing this out there in case anyone is frustrated with their rack. Most of my customers who've had complaints about the North American rack have found workarounds that have satisfied them (mainly the Thule adapters). The only people who are really frustrated are those with certain cargo boxes and such that require crossbars spaced further apart.

    In any event, the rack should not be a deal-breaker, the Outback is a fantastic car.
    That explains the huge plastic pods at the front and rear. I figured they were a way for Subaru to guarantee more factory rack/accessory sales. I guess in a way I was right. If I get an OB I'll probably look into the Euro rail setup. It seems that there isn't enough open space between the existing plastic bits to nicely space Yakima rack setup.

  74. #1074
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    Our 2007 Impreza on a trip to Smokehole, WV to ride the North Fork Mountain Trail. Four adults, a baby, and 2 dogs - two bikes out back and all the gear on the roof. Even managed to get in some off-roading fully loaded, though it did require minding the line quite closely. Would have definitely liked to have had some "saggy butt" spacers in the rear, but the car still managed quite nicely in some hairy off-camber situations without scraping. If the struts start making noise, the plan is to swap 'em out for fozzy replacements w/ trailing arms - should yield about a 2.5" lift.
    Oh noes. I'm going to drink the Kool-Aid.

  75. #1075
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    We have a winner!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by Lambdamaster View Post

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  76. #1076
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    ^
    I sell Subarus... with that said, being as how I'm not trying to sell YOU one, I will say you should just buy one without worrying. The problem affects so FEW, it's just been blown out of proportion because of the internet forums.
    Subaru has not been very up front about the root cause. They usually start by requiring road force balancing, complaining about your tires, etc. Not all the TSB's are effective on all cars. What really scares me off though is that a lot of cars develop the shakes later in life, and there is no firm root-cause fix. The TSB's, if they're effective on your car, may only be enough to get you through warranty, at which point you'll risk having a shaking car that can't be fixed.

    I don't think it's as isolated as you think. Even Car & Driver is having the problem on their car. Also, I think most people are complete idiots when it comes to cars and don't even notice if they throw a wheel weight, so their are likely many out there driving their shaking Outbacks without a complaint.

    There were bandaids at first, but this far in, they've got the fix down.
    The fix simply isn't down. Even you say as much in a later post....

    Essentially, to completely get rid of the problem, they would have to redesign quite a lot of the car, methinks
    So, which is it: is the fix down, or does the car require a redesign to get rid of the problem?
    Also, from a sales standpoint, I really wish that 2012 is the year that the Forester gets the CVT! Haters gonna hate on the internet but in Real Life, people love the CVT, it's sooooo much better in every way compared to the 4EAT.
    The 4EAT is a pretty antiquated design, so almost anything is an improvement. I like the idea of the CVT, and like how it offers taller gearing than the stick. It's kind of thrashy and noisy though, and there have been some reports of it being difficult to apply a lot of power from a standstill, especially in reverse. This could lead to problems if you have to rock yourself free, or back up a tight, rough road that's too narrow to turn around on. It also has not proven itself yet, reliability-wise.

    My ideal setup would be a direct injection turbo with about 230 hp coupeled to a 6-spd manual with a lower first, 2nd, and R, and a taller 6th.

  77. #1077
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    2000 subaru forester here, it's my old war horse. Rocky mounts makes good, inexpensive racks that bolt onto the factory rails.

    Sent from my HTC Glacier

  78. #1078
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    In the North American market, Subaru had the ingenious idea of coming up with swivelling crossbars. They tuck in along the sides when you're not using them to cut down on wind noise, and when you are using them, they swing horizontally. They are chunkier to accomodate the swivelling/storage aspect.

    In theory, this is a neato idea, and I've noticed it appeals to everyone who never uses their rack.

    In reality, rack-o-philes (and there are a lot of them who drive Subarus) seem to not like the setup very much, for various reasons.

    Thule (Maybe also Yakima too now) has a workaround which has horizontal bars that clamp to the stored OEM crossbars, and this is a good thing, unless you need your bars to be further apart than this setup allows.

    Notice how I said "in the North American market" ...

    Here's a UK spec Outback, notice the normal rails, to which normal crossbars can be attached anywhere along them:


    ...I likely will be getting a 2012 Outback at some point over the next year, and I'm sort of considering having one of the technicians here at work take apart the OEM rack and seeing if i can import a UK rail to fit without major modification. The investigating will involve removing the headliner and some other stuff, but in theory it should be a clean swap.

    Of course, this isn't really necessary, so I may never do it, but I'm throwing this out there in case anyone is frustrated with their rack. Most of my customers who've had complaints about the North American rack have found workarounds that have satisfied them (mainly the Thule adapters). The only people who are really frustrated are those with certain cargo boxes and such that require crossbars spaced further apart.

    In any event, the rack should not be a deal-breaker, the Outback is a fantastic car.
    In fact it is a deal breaker for me, and you can call me a rack-o-phile. I notice Australia also gets same rail system as UK, and no doubt the diesels too!! My current Suby will be my last I'm afraid unless they dump this usless and (you said it) butt-ugly NAmerican roof rack!
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  79. #1079
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    Let Subaru know how you feel as you aren't the only one. The rack works for me but I also don't use it that much either. I could have lived with the more aerodynamic Euro rails also, but a deal-breaker?? Not really.
    Current ride(s) 2011 Santa Cruz Blur LT and a Norco Threshold SL with Di2

  80. #1080
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    Quote Originally Posted by OscarW View Post
    Let Subaru know how you feel as you aren't the only one. The rack works for me but I also don't use it that much either. I could have lived with the more aerodynamic Euro rails also, but a deal-breaker?? Not really.
    Exactly, its designed for people who don't or rarely use racks. Just like many SUV racks these days. Trust me, I have whined to the local dealership staff numerous times. Also about the lack of diesels. Meanwhile I will just keep driving my lovely old '02 bugeye WRX wagon. There's just nothing on the N.A. market I would rather have. Its been reliable, fun, and rough around the edges, ie a car with personality lol
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  81. #1081
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    Subarus suck. I hate mine.

  82. #1082
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    A rather broad statement....Why does yours suck??
    Current ride(s) 2011 Santa Cruz Blur LT and a Norco Threshold SL with Di2

  83. #1083
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    Curious myself

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilikebmx999 View Post
    Subarus suck. I hate mine.
    I'm loving my Audis, apart from the maintenance. It's not so bad I wanna dump it, but it is bad enough that I'm considering other options.

    I'm casually thinking about a Subie as the next car, since Subaru seems to be the only other make with a good AWD system (not a clutch based part time kinda thing) and manual tranny. I'm not digging 1wd systems (that is, FWD using ABS based traction control... which bites).

  84. #1084
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    I had a '97 Outback Limited... Bought it new and put 389,686mi on it before it blew a head gasket last year!

    I was gonna fix it but I had three cars so I just donated it to the local Vo-Tech school...

    I really miss that wagon...

    I'll buy a Tribeca once I sell the Audi though!
    Quote Originally Posted by William Blake
    Great things are done when men and mountains meet. This is not done by jostling in the street .

  85. #1085
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    The Tribeca isn't made anymore and it is a good thing too as it is a gas hog with a small tank... My OB gets much better miles with the same engine it....

    Audi makes nice cars but they don't hold their value as well as Subaru and will develop gremlins that are $$$ to fix. We have had a few that weren't all that great..
    Initially all is well, but my dad's A8 had new rotors put in every 3k miles and when Audi told him that they weren't going to warrantee this anymore he traded that car for a MB E 320 CDI. The Merc got a solid 37 mpg on the highway, twice the mileage the A8 got on it's best day. The Audi needed premium gas too and diesel is about the same price..
    Current ride(s) 2011 Santa Cruz Blur LT and a Norco Threshold SL with Di2

  86. #1086
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    Quote Originally Posted by OscarW View Post
    The Tribeca isn't made anymore and it is a good thing too as it is a gas hog with a small tank... My OB gets much better miles with the same engine it....

    Audi makes nice cars but they don't hold their value as well as Subaru and will develop gremlins that are $$$ to fix. We have had a few that weren't all that great..
    Initially all is well, but my dad's A8 had new rotors put in every 3k miles and when Audi told him that they weren't going to warrantee this anymore he traded that car for a MB E 320 CDI. The Merc got a solid 37 mpg on the highway, twice the mileage the A8 got on it's best day. The Audi needed premium gas too and diesel is about the same price..
    They still make the Tribeca... At least 2011's
    Subaru Tribeca | Tribeca Features and Specs

    The Audi A4 S-Line I bought a few years back has been nothing but problems... I bought it new so warranty covers it but still. The convertible top stuck down a few times, the car wouldn't start intermitantly (sic), the HID headlights would burn out every 3mo.... Etc etc.

    The Tribeca works for me size wise and gets better MPG than my Dodge Magnum w/ 500HP so it's a win/win for me...

    Hopefully my next Subaru will be as good to me as the OB was!
    Quote Originally Posted by William Blake
    Great things are done when men and mountains meet. This is not done by jostling in the street .

  87. #1087
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    Heh...

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarW View Post
    The Tribeca isn't made anymore and it is a good thing too as it is a gas hog with a small tank... My OB gets much better miles with the same engine it....

    Audi makes nice cars but they don't hold their value as well as Subaru and will develop gremlins that are $$$ to fix. We have had a few that weren't all that great..
    Initially all is well, but my dad's A8 had new rotors put in every 3k miles and when Audi told him that they weren't going to warrantee this anymore he traded that car for a MB E 320 CDI. The Merc got a solid 37 mpg on the highway, twice the mileage the A8 got on it's best day. The Audi needed premium gas too and diesel is about the same price..

    One of the reasons I got into buying Audis is because they don't hold their value well. See, I buy my cars used. I paid like $5500 for my wife's '99 Avant that needed a new clutch and timing belt service (like a $2100 job altogether, they do all the belts, front seals, replace the water pump, etc). , but it's been flawless ever since. She only drives like 5k miles a year, so I figure we'll get 10 years out of that car.

    The thing drives like a big fat wet dream, I gotta say. Her car is why I bought my A4. It drives so nicely that I'm willing to overlook some of the other issues. My only real issue is that I have the 'possessed sunroof' issue, which from what I read is an easy fix I just haven't gotten around to. My oil cooler is also starting to leak a bit, but that is an easy $100 fix I can do myself.

    Sounds like your dad took his A8 to a lame dealer. I would have brought it up with Audi USA. Audi USA is pretty responsive to customers, but their dealer tech training is sometimes lacking. Sounds like he had a stuck caliper (or maybe drove around with his foot on the brake all the time? ... doubt it). Audi brakes are way mega powerful, so I doubt he was overheating them in normal driving.

    My mo-inlaw has a 97 Legacy wagon. It drives like crap, but it's pretty thrashed on top of being in a bad accident and fixed. One thing that scares me is that she only has 100k miles on that car, but it looks worn out enough to be 300k miles. It's plastic-y and cheezy feeling to me.

    I need to go drive a more modern Subie, if for nothing else, to compare. I rented a base trim Impreza for work a couple years back, and that was better. I couldn't really push it on the road because it was an automatic (and a pretty bad auto at that). I would probably be looking at the wagon (Outback? I thought 'Outback' was a trim level) or Forrester.

  88. #1088
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    I had a 2010 outback but grew to hate it. very uncomfortable front seat and door armrest. cheap interior altogether (I had the 3.6R with cloth). traded it in for a toyota 4runner which for not much more is a vastly better vehicle.

  89. #1089
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    Quote Originally Posted by OscarW View Post
    A rather broad statement....Why does yours suck??
    i little sarcasm there.

  90. #1090
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoutcat View Post
    I had a 2010 outback but grew to hate it. very uncomfortable front seat and door armrest. cheap interior altogether (I had the 3.6R with cloth). traded it in for a toyota 4runner which for not much more is a vastly better vehicle.
    two different kinds of vehicles. 4runner is definitely more expensive and eats alot more gas.
    i'm not a fan of the new 4runners but the older ones.

  91. #1091
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    Quote Originally Posted by @dam View Post
    Subaru has not been very up front about the root cause.
    This is the history of Subaru of America. Period. End of story. They have NEVER been very forth coming or honest about problems with their cars. They have a nasty reputation of acting like MAJOR problems aren't problems at all. I had a 2001 Impreza 2.5RS and I LOVED driving the car.... but 6 wheel bearings (driver side rear) and 3 sets of rotted head gaskets (Subaru denying any real problem with either), I had to call it quits on the brand. It is sad really... I would love to drive a new WRX, but I doubt I would love to own one again.

    Any SOA salesman will deny the problems ever existed... I have known of at least one person that spent big money suing SOA over the wheel bearing issue and their denial of the issue... SOA settled the case for a large, undisclosed sum of money to keep from having to admit anything under oath.

    Like I said... driving one is great.... owning one is less than great.
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  92. #1092
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    I moved to CO 4 yrs ago, had my Honda stolen, and picked up a 96 legacy outback. Best decision ever.

    Thule box on top, bike easily fits in the back. I bought it as a known fixer upper, and it's been reliable since. Plows through snow and doesn't leave me white knuckled when skating down I-70 for snowboarding in the winter.

    It's a beater for sure...I've had a few sweet off-road excursions in Moab and through CO. The only time I got stuck was when I attempted to get through about 100 yards of loose gravel...turned to sand within the last 10 yards and got done in...in the cars defense we were loaded up for a 3 week national parks road trip.

    I love my bullet-proof 2.2

  93. #1093
    Muskoka
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    02 bugeye WRX wagon...

    hauling 3 fatbikes
    <table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/PhgNqWT3yuRHqVsm-BkkQA?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-1s_hQ9Sfa6g/TZ-2FDfSC0I/AAAAAAAAFRA/vdE_WcaQOfo/s800/TBL2484.jpg" height="538" width="800" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/BlackCanoeDog/TorranceBarrensLove?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsite"> Torrance Barrens Love</a></td></tr></table>
    <table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/0kn4LnBGDmdF52JHn9UZEQ?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-OhBFV6biQXc/TZ-2F56XTqI/AAAAAAAAFRE/qQ6YIiE-mHc/s800/TBL2487.jpg" height="538" width="800" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/BlackCanoeDog/TorranceBarrensLove?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsite"> Torrance Barrens Love</a></td></tr></table>
    https://get.google.com/albumarchive/...127?source=pwa

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  94. #1094
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    2004 Impreza RS

  95. #1095
    Tossin the salad.
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    I just recently purchased another Subie

    I now own a 08 WRX Sedan. Reason's of why I got this one is because:
    A: I wanted to turbo and it sure does scoot.
    B: I got this body style since it has a more luxury class look and not a "Look, lets race for rice" look.
    C: AWD is something I truly miss and love having it again.
    D: Great on Gas even when I am on Turbo (minus premium fuel cost), but it does good on Mid-Grade (not using Turbo of course).
    C: A very safe and fun all around ride.
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  96. #1096
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    Quote Originally Posted by TX_Shifter View Post
    I just recently purchased another Subie

    I now own a 08 WRX Sedan. Reason's of why I got this one is because:
    A: I wanted to turbo and it sure does scoot.
    B: I got this body style since it has a more luxury class look and not a "Look, lets race for rice" look.
    C: AWD is something I truly miss and love having it again.
    D: Great on Gas even when I am on Turbo (minus premium fuel cost), but it does good on Mid-Grade (not using Turbo of course).
    C: A very safe and fun all around ride.
    But why did you get an 08 vs. the 09? Same on the outside, but many upgraded bits on the 09.

  97. #1097
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    for the 6cyl the gas mileage isnt that different, 4-5mpg. and the 3.6 v. the mid range 4runners arent a huge price difference. if you can buy a 3.6R then you can and should buy a 4runner. i've owned other subarus that were better but the new outbacks have ridiculously cheap interiors...

  98. #1098
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    2001 Outback Wagon. Still gets 28mpg on the highway and has 185K on the odometer. With 4 bikes on top the mileage drops to about 25mpg. Fits a 29er with wheels on, in the back with the seats down. AWD has been great.

    May repalce it with the new impreza coming out this fall. (AWD and 36mpg!)

  99. #1099
    I <3 dirt
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    My junk Wrx wagon.

  100. #1100
    ballbuster
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    Dang!

    Quote Originally Posted by qa_bugfinder View Post
    2001 Outback Wagon. Still gets 28mpg on the highway and has 185K on the odometer. With 4 bikes on top the mileage drops to about 25mpg. Fits a 29er with wheels on, in the back with the seats down. AWD has been great.

    May repalce it with the new impreza coming out this fall. (AWD and 36mpg!)
    New Impreza is rated at 36 mpg freeway? Impressive, as long as that number isn't fudged too much. I may have to look into that.

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