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  1. #2501
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    Not nearly as cool as the Levorg though. Levorg just says performance. Outback says...lets load up the family and go camping. Still a nice car though...don't get me wrong.

  2. #2502
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    Looks good. How will you be hauling bikes? Roof or hitch? Not at all? I might see if I can test drive an XT this weekend and see how the lower level trim fits in the budget. That would be somewhat of a compromise I guess...good power but AT which stinks...gas mileage that's not terrible...good looks...might have a winner if the price works out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    Honestly I like the hood scoop. It's one of my favorite things about the WRX styling. But I guess the Forrester isn't a performance vehicle so I guess they don't feel all the air getting to the intercooler is needed like it would be on the WRX.
    The XT is a performance vehicle. It has the same 0-60 and 1/4 mile as the VW GTI. It is faster than the Subaru FRS as well. They did eliminate the hood scoop but they integraded a cowl system from the grille to the underside of the hood. Obfiously a hood scoop is mor functional but my engine temps seem to be fine, even in the 90 degree weather we have already experienced down here in SoCal this year.

  3. #2503
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    We bought a 2014 XV Crosstrek Hybrid 2 weeks ago. It's the pearl-green color.
    Traded in a 2-year Honda Fit Sport that, while practical, we could not stand- so-so mileage, excrutiatingly slow, massive reflections from dash (even w/ cover) and poor visibility due to huge A-pillar.
    The new Subie is great; tons more visibility, TONS more power, killer turning radius, AWD of course, and just as practical. Better/more upscale interior, more doo-dads, etc.. Also set up for a hidden hitch, which I had installed- looks killer. (Will post pics soon). Also has a roof rack from our Honda. (Honda Fit has absolutely ZERO provision for roof rack of any kind- so Rack Attack installer had to drill into the roof! Yikes.)

    The Crosstrek isn't fast- but it sure feels like it compared to that slug of a Honda!
    (All the good reviews of the Fit are for the 5-speed manual, which I wanted, but was unable to find at the time).

  4. #2504
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    Quote Originally Posted by RRRoubaix View Post
    We bought a 2014 XV Crosstrek Hybrid 2 weeks ago. It's the pearl-green color.
    Traded in a 2-year Honda Fit Sport that, while practical, we could not stand- so-so mileage, excrutiatingly slow, massive reflections from dash (even w/ cover) and poor visibility due to huge A-pillar.
    The new Subie is great; tons more visibility, TONS more power, killer turning radius, AWD of course, and just as practical. Better/more upscale interior, more doo-dads, etc.. Also set up for a hidden hitch, which I had installed- looks killer. (Will post pics soon). Also has a roof rack from our Honda. (Honda Fit has absolutely ZERO provision for roof rack of any kind- so Rack Attack installer had to drill into the roof! Yikes.)

    The Crosstrek isn't fast- but it sure feels like it compared to that slug of a Honda!
    (All the good reviews of the Fit are for the 5-speed manual, which I wanted, but was unable to find at the time).
    Oh- and when I really need to go fast, I have a hugely modified 2004 WRX STi, cranking out 470- 490 hp at the crank.
    Although, I must confess, having been modified for track use in Portland, it is now relagated to street use, for which it is, well, Awful.

  5. #2505
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    Quote Originally Posted by Island20v View Post
    They did eliminate the hood scoop but they integraded a cowl system from the grille to the underside of the hood. Obfiously a hood scoop is mor functional but my engine temps seem to be fine, even in the 90 degree weather we have already experienced down here in SoCal this year.
    I'm not an auto mech., but I think that the hood scoop only cools the engine through passive heat escape (i.e., a vent when the vehicle is at a stop). When the car is in motion, the scoop only provides cooled air directly to the turbo for more rapid compression. Engine cooling is done through a standard radiator behind the grill . . . . I think
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  6. #2506
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    Quote Originally Posted by RRRoubaix View Post
    Oh- and when I really need to go fast, I have a hugely modified 2004 WRX STi, cranking out 470- 490 hp at the crank.
    Although, I must confess, having been modified for track use in Portland, it is now relagated to street use, for which it is, well, Awful.
    I currently have a 2013 wrx hatch and have contemplated a stage 2 tune + supporting mods and some suspension work (start with stiffer sways, eventually springs and struts) but am worried that its going to make the car less "driveable" for daily use.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  7. #2507
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    Quote Originally Posted by 007 View Post
    I'm not an auto mech., but I think that the hood scoop only cools the engine through passive heat escape (i.e., a vent when the vehicle is at a stop). When the car is in motion, the scoop only provides cooled air directly to the turbo for more rapid compression. Engine cooling is done through a standard radiator behind the grill . . . . I think
    Actually on the Subaru the turbo intercooler is behind the scoop. It's not an air intake nor a means to cool the engine, just the air that's entering the motor from the turbo.

    So anyways, I drove a few Subarus today. A Crosstrek, Impreza, and WRX. Of course the Impreza and Crosstrek are essentially the same car but I kinda like the styling and lift of the Crosstrek more. But the WRX...wow...what a machine. I wish the interior was a little nicer for use as a DD...but I understand the WRX is a performance car first and everything else second. I didn't buy anything today...I need time to think about it and let my brain take over and not act on pure emotion. If I did, there'd be a WRX in the driveway right now with temp tags on it.
    Last edited by Nubster; 03-23-2014 at 07:14 PM.

  8. #2508
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    Actually on the Subaru the turbo intercooler is behind the scoop. It's not an air intake nor a means to cool the engine, just the air that's entering the turbo.
    Actually, on my wrx, and every other one I've seen, the hood scoop serves the purpose of sending cooling air to both the turbo and the intercooler (which is the air charge that has heated up due to compression of the turbo), and after there, it passes around the transmission, most likely taking a bit of heat out of the engine as it passes through. When stopped though, it would always operate in reverse, with a visible heat-stream coming out of the hood. Given the fact that it's a turbo engine, it relies heavily on the intake charge being cooled, the fuel-air mixture going rich under turbo boost, and the radiator. These three things contribute greatly to controlling the temp. I did have it go into "limp mode" a few times due to excessive heat, even with a bigger intercooler to deal with the desert.

    The air going to the turbo (intake air) came from just below the hood, on the left side. An intake goes left (looking at the car head-on) into the wheel well, where there is a silencer chamber for the turbo, and then back into the engine bay and to the turbo.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  9. #2509
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    Turbo blanket FTW. My 04 would feel like I was towing a 20ft boat till I got to 30mph+, now I have to be gentle on the throttle from a stop. We get high humidity and 90 degree+ in the summer.

  10. #2510
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebbles View Post
    Turbo blanket FTW. My 04 would feel like I was towing a 20ft boat till I got to 30mph+, now I have to be gentle on the throttle from a stop. We get high humidity and 90 degree+ in the summer.
    Like a snuggie?
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  11. #2511
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    Who else here drives a Subaru?

    Cold air to the intercooler is cold air to the turbo

  12. #2512
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    Quote Originally Posted by Island20v View Post
    Cold air to the intercooler is cold air to the turbo
    I thought the intercooler held pressurized air from after the turbo?? The turbo is so hot, that it heats the air it's pressurizing, and the act of pressurizing also heats the air as well. So the intercooler is necessary to cool the air down before it goes into the engine. Denser air means more HP.

  13. #2513
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neseth View Post
    I thought the intercooler held pressurized air from after the turbo?? The turbo is so hot, that it heats the air it's pressurizing, and the act of pressurizing also heats the air as well. So the intercooler is necessary to cool the air down before it goes into the engine. Denser air means more HP.
    This is correct.

  14. #2514
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    Re: Who else here drives a Subaru?

    Quote Originally Posted by 007 View Post
    I currently have a 2013 wrx hatch and have contemplated a stage 2 tune + supporting mods and some suspension work (start with stiffer sways, eventually springs and struts) but am worried that its going to make the car less "driveable" for daily use.
    If you're worried about warranty I'd understand, but otherwise all those things will drastically improve the car. My friend did an accessport, full exhaust and an intake on his dd sti and picked up a few mpg and substantial improvement in all driveability. More torque, better throttle response and no more bs bucking at light load. Mine is my daily driver so I'm keeping the engine and drive train warranty intact as I have another car to play around with.

    I have the race comp engineering sway bars on my 11 sti sedan. The only thing it dislikes a little more are sharp speed bumps but it isn't even noticeable to be honest. The benefits are very noticeable however, the car is flatter and much more crisp turning in. Should have come this way from the factory. The differential bushing inserts made a much larger difference than I would ever have guessed as well, took a lot of slack out of the drive train for sure and they were just the cheap inserts, not even the complete bushing kit, and were like $35


    Intercoolers are excellent aids in pump gas knock resistance as well. Help keep charge air temps down and prevent pre ignition detonation so the car can run more aggressive timing advance and make more torque and power as well as run a bit leaner safely.
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  15. #2515
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    Omg 1st gear at a crawl is like a mechanical bull sometimes. Drives me nuts. I didn't think that would go away with an AP.

    For now I'm under warranty and would like to keep it, so any power mods are out of the question for now. Suspension though is on the agenda.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  16. #2516
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    Hah. Yes. My car is a second gear ordeal if I'm moving at all, it is obnoxious sometimes. To me, it seems as if they have calibrated the throttle/tps/avcs or davcs and ignition timing to make up for the drive line drag that results from all wheel drive. As if to say, we realize lots of you idiots haven't driven awd cars before so we will help smooth it out for you for acceleration. When you expect it though, it's a bit annoying! I think it lies largely in cam phasing with the avcs in wrx and davcs in sti. I'm just guessing though and have no hard facts, but the car surges in and out of off idle power without any boost, seems too aggressive for just an ignition adjustment. Mine surges ahead sometimes in first and second gear with the same exact throttle position. It clears up every time they service the car, only for a few weeks. Maybe it just hates dirty crap pump gas, but I do know the AP out of the box tune was a pretty solid improvement in low speed driveability for my friends car, and we had similar mileage, both 2011 sedans with the factory reflash and filled up at similar places. Too few variables for it not to be the ap in my opinion. Plus his car would give mine the business, so there's that, too.

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  17. #2517
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    Like a snuggie?

    Yes, but without all the color choices.

  18. #2518
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    Well, after much thought I have decided that I'm likely going to get a Crosstrek. That is unless I can squeeze a great deal out of the dealer on a WRX. I found an area dealer that has one for $25,800 which from what I can tell is a pretty good deal...but still with my trade will put payments just out of reach. If I can get them to go a little less than $25K I might be in business. Regardless...I'll be happy with the CrossTrek Limited I have picked out.

  19. #2519
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    It would be nice if some of these cars would just come with a big 'ol FMIC to begin with. That's usually one of the bottle necks in performance with a stock car. I mean I guess I understand kinda why they don't, but at the same time...a car like a WRX is going to get modded anyways by many people that own one. If nothing else, make it an option. I know that I wish I had one when I had my Focus ST. The IC on those are ridiculous and I know I don't get into modding enough to drop $800-1000 on a FMIC.
    I've only seen a few FMICs on the hundreds of turbo'd Subarus I've seen here in CO. BTW, a FMIC will kill spool time on the tiny stock turbos compared to a TMIC. These motors are complete dogs out of boost, or at least the old 2L/2.5L motors were.

  20. #2520
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    Well, after much thought I have decided that I'm likely going to get a Crosstrek. That is unless I can squeeze a great deal out of the dealer on a WRX. I found an area dealer that has one for $25,800 which from what I can tell is a pretty good deal...but still with my trade will put payments just out of reach. If I can get them to go a little less than $25K I might be in business. Regardless...I'll be happy with the CrossTrek Limited I have picked out.
    Nice, I think you'll like the Crosstrek though you'll feed into the whole notion that American's only buy CUVs and SUVs and don't want a wagon *levorg* here in the States... Seriously though, the Crosstrek does seem like a great car. Are you going with pumpkin orange?

  21. #2521
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    Yes, superorb has it correct.

    The other thing is that to harness a big intercooler, you of course need a bigger turbo, but your "pull" is going to start at higher and higher RPMs. This isn't crazy higher, but whereas you might make decent boost below 2500rpm, putting those big turbos that rely on lots of exhaust feeding them will require more RPMs, so you end up chasing your tail to some extent.

    I had the STI intercooler on my wrx, but even that wasn't as optimal, it lowered the peak boost the turbo could hit. It was a tradeoff due to the extremely hot temps I drove in. I did a lot of high-altitude driving as well. You can tell when you are pushing a turbo past it's volumetric efficiency. Boost drops off the higher your RPMs go. All in all, a big FMIC is a waste unless you've got the mods to support it, bigger turbo, bigger injectors (good way to fry an engine without these), better fuel pump, fuel rails, and the management that goes along with it.

    I've seen lots of FMIC STIs and WRXs. These usually have the supporting mods. If you think you want/need a FMIC, you better know what you are doing and better be dropping the money necessary for all the supporting mods. At that point, $800 for the FMIC is nothing. Other way to say it, if you are looking at a FMIC, you are probably looking at 350-400whp. You are going to drop around $10K in the engine. A stock STI makes about 235whp. You can get some dramatic quick gains with full exhaust+tune. After that, you start dumping lots of money in there. If these amounts seem expensive, then I suggest dropping the FMIC idea.

    If you want to have some fun though, look up in NASIOC and other site's threads about stuff that subaru owners have found in their hood scoops/on their TMIC, some pretty hilarious stuff.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  22. #2522
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    This may be true on the WRX cars but with the Focus ST which is the only turbo car I have experience with...heat sink is a huge issue and the intercooler that's stock is a joke. So in that case, at mild upgrade with out a bunch of other mods does help. Of course there aren't many people that throw a FMIC on a car and nothing else. I'm sure there are, but most I see at least have a CIA and exhaust upgrade as well as some ECU tuning done as well.

  23. #2523
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrands View Post
    Nice, I think you'll like the Crosstrek though you'll feed into the whole notion that American's only buy CUVs and SUVs and don't want a wagon *levorg* here in the States... Seriously though, the Crosstrek does seem like a great car. Are you going with pumpkin orange?
    Yeah, but what can you do? I'm not going to not buy what's available for fear of sending the wrong message to the car makers. I'd much rather have something like a Levorg but if we don't have it when I'm ready to buy a new car, I'll have to make do with what we do have...such as the XV.

    And orange...yeah...if they have it. If not I'm wanting the silver.

  24. #2524
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    Yeah, but what can you do? I'm not going to not buy what's available for fear of sending the wrong message to the car makers. I'd much rather have something like a Levorg but if we don't have it when I'm ready to buy a new car, I'll have to make do with what we do have...such as the XV.

    And orange...yeah...if they have it. If not I'm wanting the silver.
    The Outback is essentially a Legacy Wagon and they sell a bunch of them, FWIW.

    The new Crosstrek color (desert khaki) is pretty sharp in person too...

  25. #2525
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    The Outback is a grocery getter whereas the Levorg is more of a performance car aka WRX wagon.

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