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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArizRider View Post
    The diesel doesn't necessarily have worse performance than the gas. The VW Sportwagen is available with the TDI or 5-cyl. The TDI has way more torque which results in a much sportier feeling ride. I think the Golf is available with the 2.0T, which yes, would be 'faster', but not necessarily better 'performing' which is a very subjective measurement.

    I bought a TDI Sportwagen for three main reasons, A) it's nice not having to fill up as often B) better 'performance' than the 5-cyl and C) resale, which you don't account for in your math. I still think the life cycle cost of a diesel vs gas is a wash though since a diesel is typically more expensive to maintain and IF (fingers crossed) you have a problem, it's BIG $$$.
    Totally agree performance is very subjective. I should have said the gas is quicker (as in 0-60 in less time). Also you're right about me missing the resale.

    One of the big reasons a lot of car companies don't just bring their Euro diesel to the US is cause of the tighter emissions in the US. It needs a lot more investment and I guess the majority of companies don't think it's worth it.\

    EDIT: Just looked at the VW website and it has performance defined as 0-60 - 8 on gas 9.1 on TDi

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbco1975 View Post
    Totally agree performance is very subjective. I should have said the gas is quicker (as in 0-60 in less time). Also you're right about me missing the resale.

    One of the big reasons a lot of car companies don't just bring their Euro diesel to the US is cause of the tighter emissions in the US. It needs a lot more investment and I guess the majority of companies don't think it's worth it.\

    EDIT: Just looked at the VW website and it has performance defined as 0-60 - 8 on gas 9.1 on TDi
    Never actually looking myself, it does surprise me the diesel is slower 0-60 since it has so much torque.

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArizRider View Post
    Never actually looking myself, it does surprise me the diesel is slower 0-60 since it has so much torque.
    That only matters initially. If the engine can maintain the power curve for longer then it will end up being faster, even if it may not feel like it is.

  4. #304
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    Subaru XV Crosstrek

    What I want to know is when somebody is going to get off their rump and make a diesel electric hybrid.

  5. #305
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    A diesel hybrid doesn't really work, while I won't say it's impossible, it's not very practical. A diesel engine does NOT lend itself well to starting and stopping. The engine must be kept hot for combustion to occur. There are no spark plugs, rather it uses compression to ignite the fuel, but if the engine has been shut down for a while, it uses "glowplugs" to help reach that temperature where it would ignite the mixture and they suck a lot of energy, but again, if it's not really at that operating temperature, it's not working very efficiently. Gas engines on the other hand, if you just "look" at gas vapors wrong they explode! Very small displacement diesel engines are also difficult to engineer due to heat dissipation. They have to be hot enough to do the above, but not so hot that they melt or break down. They often need turbos to help aid that compression (more heat!), so when you look at the materials and engineering involved, it ends up not being worth it. Remember that diesel is more "dense" than gasoline and less of it comes out of a barrel of oil. It's not some magic solution to anything, if more people are using diesel then there's gobs of gasoline that's not being used and the price for the gas will drop. I'd love a 335d, but there are many reasons you don't see hybrid diesels.
    Last edited by Jayem; 03-30-2013 at 10:57 AM.
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  6. #306
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    Subaru XV Crosstrek

    Maybe you should talk to the folks who build diesel electric locomotives.

    That type of system works a bit differently than you described above...namely there is no start/stop. The diesel engine runs constantly producing electricity for propulsion

    Yes, the size/heat issues you mention are still there but those are not insurmountable problems

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    Maybe you should talk to the folks who build diesel electric locomotives.

    That type of system works a bit differently than you described above...namely there is no start/stop. The diesel engine runs constantly producing electricity for propulsion

    Yes, the size/heat issues you mention are still there but those are not insurmountable problems
    Haha, the diesel electric locomotive is exactly why it's not a good fit for a car. The diesel electric uses a massive diesel engine with banks of cylinders and such, and then it uses the electric motor to step up the power to what will get a locomotive and all of it's incredible weight, moving. The diesel engine here basically doesn't stop and start at all, it turns on and the train goes. The electric motor also makes up for the fact that there's no "transmission" to select gears, so again, it can deal with the massive weight at low and higher speeds. Cars have no such problems, as internal combustion engines are well suited for the weight of cars and what has to be moved. The type of diesel engine that would actually supply the necessary power to move the car at highways speeds would be very small, maybe 100hp or so, requiring something like 1.5L at the most and a turbocharger, but even if the materials and engineering can overcome the heat issues, there's the issue of cool-down when it's not in use and restarting. Just like many new cars, there's no reason to run the engine while the car is stopped in traffic, so the engine would have to shut down if it's really going to save gas, but diesel can't instantly start back up, it's got to warm and that sucks a lot of energy from the battery to heat up the glowplugs, energy that has to be replaced by the engine.

    I mean, yeah, all sorts of boats are diesel-electric too. These aren't hybrids though with batteries intended to power them at various speeds and then the engine kick on when the correct operating speed is reached. The operating principle is vastly different.

    In the car world, a "hybrid" is one that uses a battery and electric motor, in conjunction with a gas motor. Energy is recovered (but some are plug in too) from braking and the engine usually kicks in at higher speeds. Depending on the capability of the hybrid, this may be at 10mph or 50mph, but the idea is the same and it's that initial movement that is very inefficient for a regular combustion engined-car. These cars can also combine the electric and combustion drives for a "total horsepower" figure. Very different from a diesel-electric drivetrain.

    Again, are these insurmountable problems? Probably not. But impractical to design and build? Yep. I don't see any benefit here.
    Last edited by Jayem; 03-30-2013 at 10:58 PM.
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  8. #308
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    Note that there are different types of hybrids, some start and stop the engine and some don't. Using a small diesel engine that runs continuously with an electric motor providing added power for acceleration and regenerative braking would probably be the way to do it. You get the efficiency of the diesel cycle with a low displacement, but you have the power to accelerate when needed. Diesels consume very little fuel at idle so you wouldn't see a big mpg gain by shutting the engine off at stoplights.

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbikerTi View Post
    Note that there are different types of hybrids, some start and stop the engine and some don't. Using a small diesel engine that runs continuously with an electric motor providing added power for acceleration and regenerative braking would probably be the way to do it. You get the efficiency of the diesel cycle with a low displacement, but you have the power to accelerate when needed. Diesels consume very little fuel at idle so you wouldn't see a big mpg gain by shutting the engine off at stoplights.
    But those places are where the efficiency would be improved significantly. I'm not sure if regaining the brake energy is going to do much by itself when you're adding all the weight associated with the hardware (battery, motor, etc) of an electric drivetrain at the same time. Gas used while at a stop is wasted, gas used in between/while shifting is also wasted. Even gas engines don't use "very much fuel" while idling, but that's the point, that's where we are making gains. If it can't make up in these areas, you might as well just have a 2.0 turbodiesel with no "hybrid" drivetrain, it'll be significantly lighter. Now, if the hybrid has a battery and actually tries to act like a hybrid, then we'd see better mileage and the benefits of a hybrid diesel system.

    I'd think being able to skip a few shifts/have the engine kick on after a decent amount of speed has been reached and stopping when it's no longer needed would get good gains, otherwise I'd think the benefits would be too marginal.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  10. #310
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    The increase in MPG is due to being able to run a smaller engine. As you know on level ground at highway speeds the amount of power required to keep the vehicle moving is significantly lower than the power required to get said vehicle up to highway speed. So you size your diesel engine to have enough power for highway speeds with a moderate incline and then you supplement that with an electric motor when required for acceleration/grades. With a CVT there is no shifting, and diesels use quite a bit less fuel while idling than their gasoline counterparts. Though if you wanted to incorporate a "stop/start" feature that could be done, the ECM would just make sure the engine is up to operating temperature first. This approach would be optimized for "highway" driving, while the hybrid system you're talking about would be optimized for "city" driving.

    Another alternative would be to run the diesel engine at it's peak efficiency RPM attached to a generator and use wheel motors. Bypass the transmission entirely. There are of course many other options.

    What we really need are batteries that charge in seconds while weighing nearly nothing and storing enough energy to give a 1000 mile range, all while being smaller than a space saver spare tire... Or the technology to use ALL of the energy from burning fuel to move a vehicle.

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbikerTi View Post
    What we really need are batteries that charge in seconds while weighing nearly nothing and storing enough energy to give a 1000 mile range, all while being smaller than a space saver spare tire... Or the technology to use ALL of the energy from burning fuel to move a vehicle.
    hehe, the energy density is what scares me and at the same time it's what's needed. We haven't had too many terrible battery accidents yet, but I wonder what will happen when we reach that kind of energy density, such as what will happen in a crash or due to a manufacturing flaw (think boeing, but many times worse).
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    hehe, the energy density is what scares me and at the same time it's what's needed. We haven't had too many terrible battery accidents yet, but I wonder what will happen when we reach that kind of energy density, such as what will happen in a crash or due to a manufacturing flaw (think boeing, but many times worse).
    That really depends on what the ignition trigger point or energy release is. In theory just because the battery has extreme density doesn't mean that it will be highly reactive under normal atmospheric conditions in an accident. NiMH batteries are not, and they were, and still are used in some hybrid cars. However, lithium batteries on the other hand, are extremely reactive, due to the component qualities of lithium and it's natural reactivity in a high energy state, especially if it comes in contact with other lithium cells. As it stands now, the worst that could happen is a small, but very hot, self contained fire, as these batteries can't really explode. Who knows what future batteries will do however.

  13. #313
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    What do you good folks think about the Crosstrek interiors (leather vs cloth)? We've got the tan leather in our '11 Outback and it's really nice. Does the Crosstrek use the same material?
    Another concern is that the exterior colors I'm considering all come with dark interiors, and I'm worried that black leather would be blistering hot in the summer.
    Option-wise, I don't need the Limited; I'm not a fan of the Outbacks nav/bluetooth, but have grown pretty fond of the heated seats.

  14. #314
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    Anyone got any pics of their bike inside the hatch? Are two bikes in the hatch possible without loading them on top of each other?

    All I see are pics of bikes hanging out back or on top.

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toff View Post
    Anyone got any pics of their bike inside the hatch? Are two bikes in the hatch possible without loading them on top of each other?

    All I see are pics of bikes hanging out back or on top.
    I have a L Stumpjumper FSR 29er and it won't stand up even if I slam the seatpost with the front wheel off. It will fit if I lay it down with front wheel off.

  16. #316
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    Subaru XV Crosstrek

    My XV has an anticipated delivery in May still. When it arrives I will be able to check interior bike carrying with my M FSR (26) and my wife's S Rockhopper.

  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinker View Post
    What do you good folks think about the Crosstrek interiors (leather vs cloth)? We've got the tan leather in our '11 Outback and it's really nice. Does the Crosstrek use the same material?
    Another concern is that the exterior colors I'm considering all come with dark interiors, and I'm worried that black leather would be blistering hot in the summer.
    Option-wise, I don't need the Limited; I'm not a fan of the Outbacks nav/bluetooth, but have grown pretty fond of the heated seats.
    through my research, they all come with heated seats(cloth or leather)

  18. #318
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    The interior isn't that big. I don't think I'd get my XL 29er in there without taking off the front wheel and putting two bikes in there would just cause damage.

    As far as leather quality, it's as nice or nicer than the leather I had in a couple Fords and 3 Dodges. Not complaints. It is black though and yes, it gets hot.

    Get the limited but without the Nav. I have used the Nav in other Subaru's and all the reviews say it isn't worth it, I agree. I'll use my smartphone or install a good aftermarket one when/if I need to.
    I'm a mountain bike guide in southwest Utah

  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinker View Post
    What do you good folks think about the Crosstrek interiors (leather vs cloth)? We've got the tan leather in our '11 Outback and it's really nice. Does the Crosstrek use the same material?
    Another concern is that the exterior colors I'm considering all come with dark interiors, and I'm worried that black leather would be blistering hot in the summer.
    Option-wise, I don't need the Limited; I'm not a fan of the Outbacks nav/bluetooth, but have grown pretty fond of the heated seats.
    You can't get Nav or leather optioned with the manual, automatically disqualifying both options from my purchase decision. I'd rather have a proper transmission than leather any day.

  20. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Bringer View Post
    You can't get Nav or leather optioned with the manual, automatically disqualifying both options from my purchase decision. I'd rather have a proper transmission than leather any day.
    It totally sucks that you can't get a good set of options with a manual. Automatic blows. I have a Manual Honda Civic and an Automatic Tacoma. Each car makes the other one more fun to drive. The Civic is more fun because the Taco is an automatic. The tacoma is more fun because it's waaay faster than the civic and it can off road like the civic only dreams of ( the civic is oddly capable off road, you just need to keep the momentum up).
    I like to ride bikes.

  21. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by otis24 View Post
    It totally sucks that you can't get a good set of options with a manual. Automatic blows. I have a Manual Honda Civic and an Automatic Tacoma. Each car makes the other one more fun to drive. The Civic is more fun because the Taco is an automatic. The tacoma is more fun because it's waaay faster than the civic and it can off road like the civic only dreams of ( the civic is oddly capable off road, you just need to keep the momentum up).
    Yeah, I've found this to be really limiting in my own car choices lately as well - I won't own an auto either. And my girlfriend bough her Crosstrek specifically because it's the only thing in its class and price range which actually comes with a manual *and* AWD.

    Also, I've driven both the automatic and the manual Crosstrek - while I'm rather spoiled as far as power goes, and I know it's all subjective, the manual absolutely feels more powerful and fun to drive. And I'm the type who feels there's more to driving than just transportation

  22. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael573114 View Post
    Yeah, I've found this to be really limiting in my own car choices lately as well - I won't own an auto either. And my girlfriend bough her Crosstrek specifically because it's the only thing in its class and price range which actually comes with a manual *and* AWD.

    Also, I've driven both the automatic and the manual Crosstrek - while I'm rather spoiled as far as power goes, and I know it's all subjective, the manual absolutely feels more powerful and fun to drive. And I'm the type who feels there's more to driving than just transportation
    You guys speak my language!

  23. #323
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    Subaru XV Crosstrek

    Down with autos!

  24. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Down with autos!
    And down with power windows, too! I just feel like I'm more in control when I can crank them up myself; I can decide how fast or slow I want to go, I don't need a stupid machine doing it for me! ;-)

  25. #325
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    Subaru XV Crosstrek

    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Down with autos!
    Werd

    I literally feel like I'm falling asleep driving an auto.

  26. #326
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    I love manuals and really wanted one but my whole point of buying this car was the utility combined with good fuel economy. I don't lose any utility by going with the automatic but I gain mpg. No brainer. Someday I'll have a fun car with a manual again, it just isn't going to be this one. This car isn't any less fun for having the CVT and the paddle shifters are a lot of fun. I use them every trip.

    Oh, I just did a 90 mile round trip with 3 bikes on top on 3 guys in the car. Averaged 29.1 mpg and it took about 3 gallons of gas. Cost me just over $10. My '05 F350 I sold to get this car would have done that trip with over 6 gallons of diesel and cost me over $37! I don't miss my truck at all.
    I'm a mountain bike guide in southwest Utah

  27. #327
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    Some people like Subaru, some people don't. I've had an Impreza and I can't say I liked it much.

    Pros:
    ** Handling
    ** Gas mileage
    ** Snowbird

    Cons:
    ** Terrible paint
    ** Terrible seats
    ** Windows wouldn't roll up in cold weather
    ** Local dealer took forever on warranty issues
    ** Wiring issue with all front lighting
    ** Conti tires were terrible

    ??? Cheap car = cheap sh!t.
    - The only thing that keeps me on a bike is happiness.

  28. #328
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    Subaru XV Crosstrek

    Quote Originally Posted by OmaHaq View Post
    Some people like Subaru, some people don't. I've had an Impreza and I can't say I liked it much.

    Pros:
    ** Handling
    ** Gas mileage
    ** Snowbird

    Cons:
    ** Terrible paint
    ** Terrible seats
    ** Windows wouldn't roll up in cold weather
    ** Local dealer took forever on warranty issues
    ** Wiring issue with all front lighting
    ** Conti tires were terrible

    ??? Cheap car = cheap sh!t.
    Sounds like a lemon, what year was it? I have a 2002 that's never been waxed, yes never, and the paint looks perfect. Both of ours have been great with zero issues at all. Subarus are considered very reliable in general.

  29. #329
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    Subaru XV Crosstrek

    Just got the email yeaterday. Our crosstrek has a vin and looks to arrive the first week of may!

  30. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    Just got the email yeaterday. Our crosstrek has a vin and looks to arrive the first week of may!
    Why so long? I ordered mine on 27 Feb and it arrived on 23 Mar. Did you get something super custom?
    I'm a mountain bike guide in southwest Utah

  31. #331
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    Subaru XV Crosstrek

    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    Why so long? I ordered mine on 27 Feb and it arrived on 23 Mar. Did you get something super custom?
    Nothing outrageous. A few port-installed accessories and a dealer installed one on a premium xv in blue. It is about the right amount of time we were quoted.

    Our dealer has been selling most of their xv's off of the incoming models list where folks had to wait a short amount of time for something already on the way. My wife wanted to order one that had not yet been built so she could choose color and options specifically rather than buy whatever they had on the way already.

  32. #332
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    Trade in values are full retard right now. I'm really eyeing the XV Crosstrek. With the high trade in values, and low interest rates on loans, it's hard to resist. I'll probably wait a couple of months until the feeding frenzy dies and get one. Five speed, of course. Why, because it's the proper thing to do.

    I've got a question though. I work as a valet, so I've hopped in quite a few of the current Outbacks and Foresters. That's actually where my admiration of Subaru blossomed. At 6'4" tall, one thing I love about the current batch of Subarus it that the seats go really far back. Even with a telescope wheel, the seats will go far enough back that I feel disconnected from the controls. The spec page said the XV has the same about of legroom as the Outback and Forester. In the real world, is the cockpit on the XV as roomy as the Outback/Forester? Haven't come across one at work yet.

  33. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    A diesel hybrid doesn't really work, while I won't say it's impossible, it's not very practical. A diesel engine does NOT lend itself well to starting and stopping. The engine must be kept hot for combustion to occur. There are no spark plugs, rather it uses compression to ignite the fuel, but if the engine has been shut down for a while, it uses "glowplugs" to help reach that temperature where it would ignite the mixture and they suck a lot of energy, but again, if it's not really at that operating temperature, it's not working very efficiently. Gas engines on the other hand, if you just "look" at gas vapors wrong they explode! Very small displacement diesel engines are also difficult to engineer due to heat dissipation. They have to be hot enough to do the above, but not so hot that they melt or break down. They often need turbos to help aid that compression (more heat!), so when you look at the materials and engineering involved, it ends up not being worth it. Remember that diesel is more "dense" than gasoline and less of it comes out of a barrel of oil. It's not some magic solution to anything, if more people are using diesel then there's gobs of gasoline that's not being used and the price for the gas will drop. I'd love a 335d, but there are many reasons you don't see hybrid diesels.
    Nonsense. I drive an F550 crane truck at work. I have a remote start/stop switch in the crow's nest, and start and stop the engine all the time... and that is with a traditional electric gear motor starter. Granted, it does take a lot more energy to turn a diesel engine around to start it, but it's well within the amount of energy the traction motor can do... especially considering that the traction motor has to be strong enough to pull 3500 pounds of car from a dead stop. The glow plugs only come into play if the engine is stone cold. Most of the time, you don't even need those, unless it's below 40F outside, and the car/truck has been sitting overnight. I knew folks who had Rabbit Diesels back in the 70s and 80s, and the glow plug systems would fail on those all the time, and many wouldn't even notice.

    IIRC, Audi has a hybrid diesel they are close to production on.

    Also, a hybrid doesn't have to have a start/stop engine. The original Honda Insight and Civic hybrids were 'mild hybrids', where the traction motor just boosts the gas motor when needed, and takes energy back off to charge the batteries when coasting down. The gas engine still spins all the time, as long as the car is moving.

    *edit*

    Heh... Peugeot has a diesel full hybrid, out now. (not that I would personally want to own a Peugeot)

    3008 HYbrid4 - Cars Peugeot - Peugeot Motion & Emotion
    Last edited by pimpbot; 04-08-2013 at 11:19 AM.

  34. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    Nonsense. I drive an F550 crane truck at work. I have a remote start/stop switch in the crow's nest, and start and stop the engine all the time... and that is with a traditional electric gear motor starter. Granted, it does take a lot more energy to turn a diesel engine around to start it, but it's well within the amount of energy the traction motor can do... especially considering that the traction motor has to be strong enough to pull 3500 pounds of car from a dead stop. The glow plugs only come into play if the engine is stone cold. Most of the time, you don't even need those, unless it's below 40F outside, and the car/truck has been sitting overnight. I knew folks who had Rabbit Diesels back in the 70s and 80s, and the glow plug systems would fail on those all the time, and many wouldn't even notice.

    IIRC, Audi has a hybrid diesel they are close to production on.

    Also, a hybrid doesn't have to have a start/stop engine. The original Honda Insight and Civic hybrids were 'mild hybrids', where the traction motor just boosts the gas motor when needed, and takes energy back off to charge the batteries when coasting down. The gas engine still spins all the time, as long as the car is moving.

    *edit*

    Heh... Peugeot has a diesel full hybrid, out now. (not that I would personally want to own a Peugeot)

    3008 HYbrid4 - Cars Peugeot - Peugeot Motion & Emotion
    Well true, but I haven't seen any practical ones yet. If it takes "a lot of energy" to start, due to the high compression, etc, you lose the hybrid benefit to a large extent. If it doesn't shut off, you lose some of the mileage benefit. That peugeot got 46mpg in magazine testing, not quite prius territory, but maybe it will get better. A 2.0L diesel engine seems too big to really take advantage of it and offer something over gasoline hybrids. That's my point, the technology needs to advance to the point where it actually gives you something better. Should probably be a 1.5L diesel with a bigger electric motor and battery. When it really starts pulling 65mpg (rather than claiming it), then we might have something.
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  35. #335
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    2009... from what I hear it wasn't a lemon. The bad paint is a talked about a lot on line. The wiring in the front lights ended up being a recall.

    I didn't mention that the rear windsheld wiper came off. That was also a recall item.



    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Sounds like a lemon, what year was it? I have a 2002 that's never been waxed, yes never, and the paint looks perfect. Both of ours have been great with zero issues at all. Subarus are considered very reliable in general.
    - The only thing that keeps me on a bike is happiness.

  36. #336
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    I will say the resale / trade-in value was pretty good. Bought it for $17600 new, traded it off with 35K on it for $14400. Pretty happy with that.


    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Sounds like a lemon, what year was it? I have a 2002 that's never been waxed, yes never, and the paint looks perfect. Both of ours have been great with zero issues at all. Subarus are considered very reliable in general.
    - The only thing that keeps me on a bike is happiness.

  37. #337
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    Subaru XV Crosstrek

    Quote Originally Posted by OmaHaq View Post
    I will say the resale / trade-in value was pretty good. Bought it for $17600 new, traded it off with 35K on it for $14400. Pretty happy with that.
    Was it a premium? That's great resale. We have a 2009 and it is perfect and the paint is great and it's never been waxed or garaged.

  38. #338
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    "pretty good" resale value is actually "best out of any manufacturer".

    The paint, that's not Subaru- that's like everyone. I have owned two modern Mazdas, and the hood chipped on both if you so much as looked at them. I think it's just "such is a modern car".
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  39. #339
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    Well I just traded in my 11 outback for a 2013 crosstrek premium that is loaded!!

    Got the Tangerine Orange Pearl Paint scheme, Moonroof everything accept leather and gps

    They even threw in a hitch!!

    Lowered My payments by a hundred bucks!

    Just have to wait till mid may for it to be delivered!

  40. #340
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    i currently drive an 02 f150 getting about 15mpg, and have driven over 50k miles in the last 6 months. i was initially wanting a tacoma to replace it, but then i started looking deeper into the more economical vehicles and came back across the Crosstrek and i am sold! took a limited out for a test drive today and was pretty stoked. i was concerned going in about the power, and it really wasnt an issue. the feel of the CVT was a little strange NOT feeling it shift, but i will get over it, and the thing handled great. on the highway, 2 clicks on the Down paddle to make a pass, then 1 click Up and back to where you were, pretty cool feature.

    This car makes absolute sense for me as business decision by potentially yielding over $700 more Profit a month.

    my local dealer has a DGM limited with sunroof and nav that should be showing up at the end of the week. hopefully the keys land in my hands!

    question about the audio... has anybody gone with the Kicker speaker upgrades? was it worth it, or should i just upgrade them myself if i really feel the need?
    Juice

  41. #341
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    Before you spend the money on the kicker "upgrade" use the hidden audio menu to adjust the factory settings. We have the base radio in our Impreza Sport so it only turns off the loudness but still a nice trick.

    Hidden menu for 2011+ "premium" head unit? - NASIOC

    For speakers DIY the Kicker upgrade is over priced for the door speakers. The dealer I work for has sold a few and I wasn't impressed by them. you can do a lot better for the money getting your own speakers.
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  42. #342
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    The kicker upgrade when paired with the hidden audio options sound amazing. Everyone who gets in the car immediately notices that the audio is not stock.

  43. #343
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    It rolled off the truck today (while we were out mountain biking).

    We pick it up Wednesday.

    Subaru XV Crosstrek-image.jpeg

  44. #344
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    Re: Subaru XV Crosstrek

    At the top of the Horse thief switchbacks after a long day on the White Rim trail in Moab. Love this car!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Subaru XV Crosstrek-uploadfromtaptalk1367198707475.jpg  

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  45. #345
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    picked up our Crosstrek today! Marine Blue Pearl Premium

    Subaru XV Crosstrek-dscf1231_800.jpg

    Will get the Thule rack on it soon, will be used primarily for our canoe. I intend to get a hitch for it and hopefully a Kuat NV later this year.

  46. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    picked up our Crosstrek today! Marine Blue Pearl Premium

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Will get the Thule rack on it soon, will be used primarily for our canoe. I intend to get a hitch for it and hopefully a Kuat NV later this year.
    Nice! We don't get that colour option in Canada for some reason
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  47. #347
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    Looking at this hitch. At $250, it's a bit more than the Curt version, but it uses the hitch hole in the bumper and maintains the ground clearance and clean lines.

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/gDYCpBhYhKM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    Torklift Central Eco-Hitch Invisi 2" Subaru XV Crosstrek Trailer Hitch | Torklift Central

    I can't remember if this one was posted in here or not and I didn't feel like digging through all the pages to find it. Considering what needs to be done to fit it in there, with dropping the exhaust out of the way (and with me not having the space I'd need to do that), I'd probably try to find a shop willing to do the install for me.

  48. #348
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    Nice NateHawk! I have yet to see one of these on the road but probably best as I would be jealous.

  49. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    Looking at this hitch. At $250, it's a bit more than the Curt version, but it uses the hitch hole in the bumper and maintains the ground clearance and clean lines.

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/gDYCpBhYhKM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    Torklift Central Eco-Hitch Invisi 2" Subaru XV Crosstrek Trailer Hitch | Torklift Central

    I can't remember if this one was posted in here or not and I didn't feel like digging through all the pages to find it. Considering what needs to be done to fit it in there, with dropping the exhaust out of the way (and with me not having the space I'd need to do that), I'd probably try to find a shop willing to do the install for me.
    Now that is a slick install. I love it. I scrape my hitch receivers all the time on steep departures, even without the rack installed.

  50. #350
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    Got My Crosstrek last Friday, Freakin Love it! Second Subaru!



    Got My factory hitch installed today at the dealer

    Putting together my Kuat NV tomorrow



    So I can safely and securely transport this:



    The Total Package

  51. #351
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    Can you guys post up some highway MPG figures? Not interested in city, as there are took my variables. Still trying to decide between this and 14 Forester.

  52. #352
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    Can anyone comment on road noise/wind noise/cvt noise at highway speeds. I only drove XV for 15 min at about 25 - 45 and the noise did not seem to be too obtrusive. I currently drive 2003 forester and it is a loud car at highway speeds. On the other hand, when I rented '12 legacy and drove it for 10 days in the mountains of CO and UT, the car performed really well and I thought it was quiet and the cvt behaved similarly to standard automatic.
    I'd just love to have a quieter car compared to my '03 forester.

    Thanks.

  53. #353
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    Subaru XV Crosstrek

    The xv is a ton quieter than my Fit. Makes sense since the doors and whatnot are thicker-more space for noise insulation. Can't comment on noise relative to other cars, but it is plenty comfy and quiet for me.

    My wife is getting about 28 in mixed driving mostly highway. It is kinda easy to go too fast compared to her previous car and compared to my Fit so I think that contributes to the lower economy than listed highway economy.

    I think part of it for me is that I am used to more engine noise and particularly to higher rpms. I think as we get more comfortable with it we will get better at managing the speed and keeping fuel economy up.

  54. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kameha View Post
    I'd just love to have a quieter car compared to my '03 forester.
    Thanks.
    I think any other car ever made will be quieter than an '03 Forester!

  55. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinker View Post
    I think any other car ever made will be quieter than an '03 Forester!
    If any has insight into how to remedy this...spill! I love my '03 fozzy but the wind nows is a bit annoying...

  56. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyle_vk View Post
    If any has insight into how to remedy this...spill! I love my '03 fozzy but the wind nows is a bit annoying...
    try this:

    Soundmat - Pyrotek Noise Control

  57. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyle_vk View Post
    If any has insight into how to remedy this...spill! I love my '03 fozzy but the wind nows is a bit annoying...
    Do a quick google search and you will find many suggestions on various subaru forums. I've tried most of them with no success.

  58. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    The interior isn't that big. I don't think I'd get my XL 29er in there without taking off the front wheel and putting two bikes in there would just cause damage.

    As far as leather quality, it's as nice or nicer than the leather I had in a couple Fords and 3 Dodges. Not complaints. It is black though and yes, it gets hot.

    Get the limited but without the Nav. I have used the Nav in other Subaru's and all the reviews say it isn't worth it, I agree. I'll use my smartphone or install a good aftermarket one when/if I need to.
    I had black leather seats in my Scirocco. It was pretty dang brutal in summer. I used to just keep white towels on the seat bottoms, and that helped.

    I gotta say, those seats were amazing. I love huggy sporty seats.

  59. #359
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    Hello All.

    I have a 1 year old BMW 320 wagon/estate car (BMW call it 'Touring'). It is a really good car to drive, has a nice engine (euro spec 320d pushing out about 170+ bhp and very torquey). Even in the snow it managed to get me home, (which being an automatic rear wheel drive was some kind of minor miracle, but it did have winter tyres fitted).

    Has anyone gone from a beemer 3 series to an XV? How does the space inside compare (we have a new baby and I like to haul my mountain bike gear, although I have a roof rack)? How does the driving experience differ? I am probably lucky with my current car, as they have a reputation for being good to drive and it certainly seems to handle well.

    I am just itching for an excuse to buy a Subaru, I have wanted one for quite a while - I like the utilitarian look.

  60. #360
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    ^ you would be losing a lot of cargo space, going from a wagon to a hatchback. I'd venture you would be losing passenger interior room too.

    A more direct comparison would be the Legacy wagon (not sure if there is an Outback trim level in your market, or what they call it). Edit: looks like you're from the UK, so Outback is definitely there.
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  61. #361
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    I was watching the evening news and it looks like it was an orange XV Crosstrek that took the plunge from the Skagit River bridge collapse.

  62. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by gribble View Post
    Hello All.

    I have a 1 year old BMW 320 wagon/estate car (BMW call it 'Touring'). It is a really good car to drive, has a nice engine (euro spec 320d pushing out about 170+ bhp and very torquey). Even in the snow it managed to get me home, (which being an automatic rear wheel drive was some kind of minor miracle, but it did have winter tyres fitted).

    Has anyone gone from a beemer 3 series to an XV? How does the space inside compare (we have a new baby and I like to haul my mountain bike gear, although I have a roof rack)? How does the driving experience differ? I am probably lucky with my current car, as they have a reputation for being good to drive and it certainly seems to handle well.

    I am just itching for an excuse to buy a Subaru, I have wanted one for quite a while - I like the utilitarian look.
    I'd think this would be really hard. Unless you are getting the x-trek for moderate off-road work where you need the ground clearance, the body roll and excessive wheel-travel without refined shocks is going to be hard to to live with. If you drove an impreza for the last few years this would be easy, but it was hard going back to my WRX after driving my brother's 2010 328. That bottom-of-the-line 328 had anti-sway bars miles stiffer and shocks so much more refined it just was no comparison. Keep in mind the X-trek will body-roll far more than my WRX.

    Lots of people have rear wheel drive BMWs here in Anchorage. They get around just fine in the winter because they get studded tires. No big deal. Lots of people have X-drives too, but not as many as you'd think. Unless you are going up significant inclines in inclimate weather OR need the ground clearance, I'd say it's not worth considering, and then there's the issue of the fact that the x-trek will be far smaller inside (it's based on the impreza).
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  63. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by gribble View Post
    Hello All.

    I have a 1 year old BMW 320 wagon/estate car (BMW call it 'Touring'). It is a really good car to drive, has a nice engine (euro spec 320d pushing out about 170+ bhp and very torquey). Even in the snow it managed to get me home, (which being an automatic rear wheel drive was some kind of minor miracle, but it did have winter tyres fitted).

    Has anyone gone from a beemer 3 series to an XV?
    Don't do it! That 320d has a honey of an engine - broad torqueband and amazing mileage - and drives like a BMW should. I think that it's a downgrade to go to a Crosstrek for all of the reasons that Jared mentions, in addition to interior quality and handling.

  64. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiddyHitch View Post
    Don't do it! That 320d has a honey of an engine - broad torqueband and amazing mileage - and drives like a BMW should. I think that it's a downgrade to go to a Crosstrek for all of the reasons that Jared mentions, in addition to interior quality and handling.
    Thanks Jared and Giddy for your input. Will probably hold off then. BMW is one of the nicest cars I have driven, although reliability seems to be just behind the VW Rabbit/Golf TDI I had a few years back. I have to say that the economy seems to be impressive too, even with the roof rack on it is about double the mileage my Nissan Juke turbo used get and just as quick.

    One thing I was wondering is if anyone had tried Thule Wing bars on their car? I have a pair do Thule Aero bars, but there is lots of wind noise. I do leave the bike carriers on all the time too (Euro spec side arm Pro Ride 951). Was wondering if a change in bars would help stop the whistle?

  65. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by gribble View Post
    One thing I was wondering is if anyone had tried Thule Wing bars on their car? I have a pair do Thule Aero bars, but there is lots of wind noise. I do leave the bike carriers on all the time too (Euro spec side arm Pro Ride 951). Was wondering if a change in bars would help stop the whistle?
    I have Thule AeroBlades and they are pretty darn quiet with two Pelotons mounted on there. I had a whistling problem before I installed the rubber strips with the wind breakers into the slot on top of the blades though. I'm contemplating replacing one of the Pelotons with a SideArm now that I have a 15TA bike, but I'm a bit concerned about additional wind noise.

  66. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by thatdrewguy View Post
    I was watching the evening news and it looks like it was an orange XV Crosstrek that took the plunge from the Skagit River bridge collapse.
    Interesting. I only saw a still image but I was thinking the same thing.

    As a follow up to the previous gas mileage question. I have 3500 miles on mine now and I think it is starting to get settled. For the first few thousand miles I was averaging about 28ish mpg. Now, I am consistently getting 30ish mpg. I've been on several MTB road trips with it. Always with a buddy, back seats folded to make space for all of our gear and two bikes on top. I averaged about 26 over four hours of 65+ mph.

    One more quick thing. I have the Curt 2" hitch on mine. It is great and I've never even come close to scraping it on the ground and I've done some hairy roads in Moab. I can't imagine the head ache you'd have trying to put a hitch pin or bolting in a bike hitch pin on the hidden hitch. Yes, it may look cool but not worth it IMO.
    I'm a mountain bike guide in southwest Utah

  67. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    Interesting. I only saw a still image but I was thinking the same thing.

    As a follow up to the previous gas mileage question. I have 3500 miles on mine now and I think it is starting to get settled. For the first few thousand miles I was averaging about 28ish mpg. Now, I am consistently getting 30ish mpg. I've been on several MTB road trips with it. Always with a buddy, back seats folded to make space for all of our gear and two bikes on top. I averaged about 26 over four hours of 65+ mph.

    One more quick thing. I have the Curt 2" hitch on mine. It is great and I've never even come close to scraping it on the ground and I've done some hairy roads in Moab. I can't imagine the head ache you'd have trying to put a hitch pin or bolting in a bike hitch pin on the hidden hitch. Yes, it may look cool but not worth it IMO.
    Good to hear your mpg improve some after about 3500mi.

    The guys over here haven't been having problems getting hitch pins in, nor with the safety chains for a small trailer. It's not right out in the open, but it's not difficult to access, either. A ratcheting socket seems to deal with threaded hitch pins well, too.

    I will be ordering the torklift hitch on my next paycheck, I think. The no drill install sounds like the way to go (report on that on page 4), as the bumper removal/reinstall only takes a few minutes each and some folks have done the install without getting the crosstrek in the air, so I may be able to pull it off at home, saving some of that cash for the hitch rack itself.

  68. #368
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    ordered the Torklift hitch today.

  69. #369
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    I looked at all the other hitch options (for my Outback), but in the end, went with a Uhaul. $220 installed with a lifetime warranty. It's fairly well-hidden (5" from the end of the bumper). Has worked well for the last 6 months. Just one other option to consider, especially if you don't want to install yourself. When I was considering this, it was 20 degrees outside and snowing, so made it much easier to decide.

  70. #370
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    I test drove an XV Crosstrek on Wednesday. 2.0 Premium with a couple of extras like sport grille, spoiler, auto dimming mirror, etc. I opted for the five speed. You know, almost every review said this car is a dog, but I thought it was plenty peppy with the five speed. It was a little loud on the highway, and it was spinning at around 3k at 65, but that's the only real complaint I have.

    Just waiting to see if the financing comes through that I want. If I get the green light, I'd go with it. It'd be a big trade up from the '06 Ranger I currently drive.

  71. #371
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    My Crosstrek Sport...

    just got it










    Sold my 2002 WRX wagon privately...hands down best car I ever had!!!
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  72. #372
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    I couldn't get a good enough deal on the financing for an XV so I walked out. Mostly, it came down to the fact that I work as a valet and over half of my income is unreported tips. Even though the payment schedule we worked out would be almost what I pay on my current vehicle(with no problems, btw), once I showed them my stubs, the deal went sour.

    They came back with a final payment schedule and interest rate that was $13 a month more than I said I'd pay, and I walked out. I really wanted a new car, but hey, gotta have some principles. It felt awesome to walk out though. They had me in a loaner car for four days, we had a deal all hammered out, it was the next thing to sold, I mean literally all I had to do still was sign one more time and it was mine, and I walked out on them over $13 a month. That was two days ago and I still feel awesome. I bet that sleazeball sales guy already had the commission check spent.

    I'm just waiting to see how long it takes for them to call me back with their new "best offer." Gonna tell them to shove it the next time too.

  73. #373
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    Subaru XV Crosstrek

    Why not try and get financing thru your bank or a credit union? Almost always going to be better then a dealer

  74. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilikemtb999 View Post
    Why not try and get financing thru your bank or a credit union? Almost always going to be better then a dealer
    I did a little shopping around too. It wasn't looking markedly better than at the dealer. While I'd really like to have a new car and not have to worry about it for a few years, I'm going back to college this fall, so going all in on a brand new vehicle probably isn't the best move right now.

    I'll probably just shop around for a nice used one. A local dealer has a 2005 Impreza wagon that I might look at. I'd be a good enough college beater. Plus, if I can get a good enough price on it, I could do a couple of mods like a 1" lift and some skid plates to make it more offroad capable. We'll see....

  75. #375
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    Subaru XV Crosstrek

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilikemtb999 View Post
    Why not try and get financing thru your bank or a credit union? Almost always going to be better then a dealer
    In our case, it wasn't even close. The dealer offered us nearly a whole percentage point less. We still tried and knew what our options were. We used it as something of a bargaining chip

  76. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy_E View Post
    I couldn't get a good enough deal on the financing for an XV so I walked out. Mostly, it came down to the fact that I work as a valet and over half of my income is unreported tips. Even though the payment schedule we worked out would be almost what I pay on my current vehicle(with no problems, btw), once I showed them my stubs, the deal went sour.

    They came back with a final payment schedule and interest rate that was $13 a month more than I said I'd pay, and I walked out. I really wanted a new car, but hey, gotta have some principles. It felt awesome to walk out though. They had me in a loaner car for four days, we had a deal all hammered out, it was the next thing to sold, I mean literally all I had to do still was sign one more time and it was mine, and I walked out on them over $13 a month. That was two days ago and I still feel awesome. I bet that sleazeball sales guy already had the commission check spent.

    I'm just waiting to see how long it takes for them to call me back with their new "best offer." Gonna tell them to shove it the next time too.
    Wow, you sound like a dick. If they had a "new best offer", you would have heard it by now, but instead, you assume that they were being *******s, when in reality they were probably struggling to get you bought because of your work history. Let me guess, you don't claim taxes on those tips, right? You're not exactly someone banks are jumping up and down to get financing for.

    Subaru's current finance offerings are typically better or equal to credit unions- assuming the dealers aren't marking their rates up. So it is indeed always good to have something like a credit union so you can use that as ammo to get the best rate possible, be it from one source or the other, but in the case of this dude, his job is what effed him. If he reported his tips on his taxes and was otherwise good credit-wise, I imagine he could have gotten where he wanted to be.

    But yeah, it's always the shady car dealership. Pfffft
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    Wow, you sound like a dick. If they had a "new best offer", you would have heard it by now, but instead, you assume that they were being *******s, when in reality they were probably struggling to get you bought because of your work history. Let me guess, you don't claim taxes on those tips, right? You're not exactly someone banks are jumping up and down to get financing for.
    Whatever, dude. I drew a line in the sand and they were over it, so I walked out. I could care less if I was seeing their "best" or not.

    And yeah, I know the fact that I have significant cash income could be seen as problematic. Seriously, no waitress, casino dealer, valet, self employed, barista, or other primarily cash based earner has ever walked in to buy a car? What do they do? I know NINJA loans are out of vogue these days, but buying a car is hardly an unsecured loan.

    I know nothing happens at a dealership that's to the customer's benefit, but at the end of the day, I felt the new deal they were talking was exceptionally outside of my favor so I took the pass. If that makes me the bad guy, I'll live with it.

  78. #378
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    Subaru XV Crosstrek

    In reality you sound like a high risk loan so they probably gave you the best they could given that.

    Imba members gets some nice deals on new subarus FYI

  79. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilikemtb999 View Post
    In reality you sound like a high risk loan so they probably gave you the best they could given that.

    Imba members gets some nice deals on new subarus FYI
    When I was shopping, the XV was excluded from most of those discount programs. My wife had a professional organization discount with Subaru better than IMBA's discount, and the XV (and a couple other models) were expressly excluded from the promotion. Same deal with the XV and the IMBA discount when I looked.

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    On paper, I can see the high risk thing, but in reality, I don't get it. If I have a history of making a $320/month car note on time, what's the problem with me getting a loan with a schedule of $360/month(the original deal we settled on.) Just because I make most of my money as cash, that means I'm high risk and that entitles them to hit me for 2-4% more on the APR? And again, it's not like I walked in and asked for an unsecured signature loan.

    I can see their logic, but there's also a couple of other factors that come into play too. I'm not losing sleep over it. They can keep it.

  81. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickK View Post
    On the side note, I think Subaru is really out of touch design wise. It really saddens me.
    I'm not going to say that they're always the hottest looking cars around, But they're handsome in their own plain way, and the design is long-lived. (my 2001 Outback wagon is still a nice looking car.) They look rugged enough.

  82. #382
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    So, I walked out of the dealership on Saturday. Today(Tuesday) and they've called me twice by 1:30. See? I'll probably wait until tomorrow and call them back and see what they've got this time. I'm kind of over this whole thing, but if they can sweeten the pot significantly, I might still be down.

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    See, your "line in the sand" is completely arbitrary. If you are lucky, it will be realistic enough that they can make it happen. But frequently people say "oh I want to be at $200 a month for 5 years on this $30,000 car with no money down" and they just pulled that number out of their ass, basically.

    They are probably calling you to see why they went through all that trouble to get you bought and now you just disappeared. Granted, they could be a totally shady dealer, I dunno. But whenever we have people who are waitresses, valets, etc, we typically have to work super hard to get them bought and not at heinous rates. All I know is that regardless of how much you make, unless you can prove that income, you are going to not have an easy time getting an awesome rate on a loan. I understand that tons of careers are largely tip based. That is all well and good until things like loans and taxes come into play.

    It just irks me when people are like "lol I walked on that shady car salesman, I bet they are scrambling now to come up with a better offer", because I am never nothing but straightforward with my clients, and when I say "this is the best I can do for you", I mean it. That terms shouldn't be thrown around lightly- I get that as a whole, the industry is shady, but that is changing.

    Unless you know exactly what your selling price was in relation to true cost, incentives, etc, trade value if you have a trade, and the buy rate of the loan they have worked to get you, you shouldn't really assume that they are holding out on you. If they are, well screw them then, but it isn't always the case.

    The best thing you can do is go through a local credit union to see what kind of rate they can do for you, and use that as ammo. If you want, PM me the MSRP and what the selling price is and I'll see if I can help.
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  84. #384
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    Well, they came back with a payment that was $50 a month less than their previous best, and I got them to agree to come up $200 on my trade so I don't have to roll any negative equity into the new one.

    One thing that I thought was shady was they called me back with their newest offer "without an extended warranty." Huh? I never asked for an extended warranty or even was told I was being up sold one. How much did those snakes stand to make on that little side deal? I should have walked out and stayed out just on that, but the deal did cross over into "favorable" and XVs with manual transmissions and the options it has aren't really falling out of trees.

    Getting $7200 in trade out of a 2006 Ford Ranger that had $6500 worth of front end collision damage five months ago, along with a few other nagging problems(rotors are warped, AC is weak, and the heater suddenly quit working) isn't that bad, IMO. Lot easier than trying to sell it on Craigslist.

    Between the new payment and insurance, I'll be into the new one for roughly $50 a month extra. For a brand new car, I can live with that.

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    Ohh, so they were just shady then. That sucks you had to go through that. I don't know of any dealer who tries to automatically pad a payment with an extended warranty, that is really crappy of them. Also, it sounded like a freaking expensive one if it dropped your payment by that much. Yeesh
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    Ohh, so they were just shady then. That sucks you had to go through that. I don't know of any dealer who tries to automatically pad a payment with an extended warranty, that is really crappy of them. Also, it sounded like a freaking expensive one if it dropped your payment by that much. Yeesh
    I went through something very similar. I was at a Subaru dealership that refused to let me talk to financing guy (I was buying a used subaru) until I had signed some paperwork agreeing to buy the car and put down the deposit...then they let me see him...and he promptly told me that in order to get financing for a used car through their dealership, I had to:
    1) Get an extended warranty (on a used car)
    2) take an absurdly high interest rate that he would look up in a little book he had on his desk.
    He then proceeded all sorts of veiled threats about witholding my deposit or delaying giving me the keys and how the car could be a death trap in New England unless I agreed to finance through them and buy the extended warranty.

    Literally he said to me: "Without this warranty, we can't guarantee that you wont break down and get stuck somewhere in the middle of winter...and it gets pretty nasty in New England in the winter, pretty dangerous to break down somewhere."

    I told him I was having none of it, told him that I was not financing through the dealer because of him and his behavior and walked out. He actually yelled at me out across the floor that I was jeopardizing my deposit on the car if I couldnt come up with $x,000 by the next day.

    I went straight from dealership to a credit union, got a loan that was 6 percentage points lower than theirs, went back to dealer a few hours later, gave them check and picked up my car the next day. On my way out I gave them a letter telling them why I would:
    1) never buy a car from them again
    2) dissuade any friends from eveyr buying a car from them
    3) never bring my car in for service there


    Moral of the story: If you are buying a Subaru in Massachusetts, PM me and I can tell you where not to go. And just because Subaru's are great cars, does not mean that Subaru dealers are nice people.

  87. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    Ohh, so they were just shady then. That sucks you had to go through that. I don't know of any dealer who tries to automatically pad a payment with an extended warranty, that is really crappy of them. Also, it sounded like a freaking expensive one if it dropped your payment by that much. Yeesh

    I know, right? I don't care if you try to sell me an extended warranty that you get a fat commission on. I know it's mostly a hose job, so I'll say no and we'll move on. The fact that the finance guy just added it in without saying he did, that's what pisses me off. I'll say something about it when I go in there. Trying to pull a stunt like that just reinforces the perception that every car dealer is a thief unless they can explicitly prove otherwise. It sucks, for sure.

    Honestly, if you got a look at the finance guy they trotted out to talk to me a couple of times, he looks exactly like the type of guy who would be an armed robber if he had a spine, but instead, he gets to do the same thing and wear a suit and tie to work instead. At the end of the day, I'm getting a car I want and a deal I can live with, so I'm cool, but it's just been a lame experience.

    If you're an honest car dealer, I applaud you, it's just that your business is full of thieves and liars and it's a lot safer to assume everyone is until they can prove differently.

  88. #388
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    Moral of the story: If you are buying a Subaru in Massachusetts, PM me and I can tell you where not to go. And just because Subaru's are great cars, does not mean that Subaru dealers are nice people.
    Why do we need a PM? Lets hear who the dealer is.

    I'm in eastern MA and my GF is considering a new Subaru Outback or Forester so if we have a crappy dealer that's still up to old dealer tricks call em out right here for everyone.
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  89. #389
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    Disclaimer:
    This was 3 years ago and the finance guy was pretty old, I was at Subaru of Wakefield. That one guy ruined the entire dealership for me. Now when I need an dealership work done, I go to cityside.

  90. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    When I was shopping, the XV was excluded from most of those discount programs. My wife had a professional organization discount with Subaru better than IMBA's discount, and the XV (and a couple other models) were expressly excluded from the promotion. Same deal with the XV and the IMBA discount when I looked.
    Just copied and pasted from the IMBA website: Subaru's VIP Program allows IMBA individual/family members and IMBA member clubs to purchase or lease any new Subaru saving $1,300 - $3,300 off the manufacturer's suggested retail price, without haggling. The program is open to all Subaru models including the WRX, STI, BRZ and XV Crosstrek models.

    So if the dealership is not honoring this there is some miscommunication somewhere. I just emailed IMBA for the letter needed to take to dealerships asking for the invoice price on a XV for my wife.

    Josh

  91. #391
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    Subaru XV Crosstrek

    That policy has changed since i started shopping. My membership had lapsed and i wanted to know if i needed to renew last summer/fall. I renewed after we bought it so what it says now is irrelevant

  92. #392
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    Well, all is well that ends well. Picked up my XV Crosstrek yesterday morning. It was a PIA, but I'm glad it's over with.

    That POS finance guy tried like hell to sell me an extended warranty, but I told him no. He even tried to liken it to having health insurance. LOLwut? I know that's how he gets a fat commission, so it felt good to say no.

    Anyway, I wound up getting 4.25% on the loan, a hell of a lot better than their previous best of almost 8%. At 4%, that's almost the rate of inflation, so I'm okay with that.

    One thing, mine is the five speed manual, and the dashboard computer is showing 35.1 MPG average. That was on a 100 mile round trip on the highway with AC and the cruise at 65 or so. Can that be accurate? I'll calculate the next tank by hand, but it's it's legitimately getting 35 MPG on the highway, I'm hella happy with that, especially since it's brand new.

    Planning on a skid plate and a trailer hitch in the near future. Maybe a short throw shifter and STI pedals too, but that can wait.

  93. #393
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    Got the Torklift hitch installed over the weekend and got the vehicle back this morning. Can't tell that the hitch is even there when the cover is on the bumper port. Wife is absolutely thrilled about that part. Looking underneath, there's plenty of space for hitch pins and such, but you have to do all of that inside the bumper. May not be the best system if you're towing a utility trailer a lot, but more than fine for bike racks and stuff. And it maintains the vehicle's ground clearance.

    I'll buy a wiring harness at some point later. I do plan to use it for a small utility trailer at some point, but not in the near future. I have been thinking of attaching a set of trailer lights to the bike rack I buy. I've seen it done on a couple of racks, presumably because those folks have been ticketed by small town officers trying to meet their quota or some such.

  94. #394
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    I went ahead an ordered a Curt trailer hitch from Amazon. Decided to go with the $4 overnight shipping with Prime. For a large/bulky item like that, why not, right?

  95. #395
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    Lets see some pics of the new car. Gas mileage still looking nice for you?

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    Well, it's highly unlikely, but it is possible. It's been mostly confirmed that some of these engines get higher mileage than they really should and most do, so you may have gotten one of the golden ones. Try comparing your speed with a gps tracking tool on your phone or nav device. Some cars have been known to clock their speed differently and give inaccurate readings, so either that's whats going on, and your best option is to just be aware of it, or you got hella lucky and you should go smile.

  97. #397
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    I bought the Crosstrek XV, installed a hitch and documented it.

    Review: Subaru XV Crosstrek ? Able Mountain Biker Vehicle? | Mountain Bike Review

    Next step, Rubicon trail or Rally course.

    fc
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  98. #398
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    I bought the Crosstrek XV, installed a hitch and documented it.

    Review: Subaru XV Crosstrek – Able Mountain Biker Vehicle? | Mountain Bike Review

    Next step, Rubicon trail or Rally course.

    fc
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  99. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    I bought the Crosstrek XV, installed a hitch and documented it.

    Review: Subaru XV Crosstrek – Able Mountain Biker Vehicle? | Mountain Bike Review

    Next step, Rubicon trail or Rally course.

    fc
    Very nice! I love that color the best... Looks great with the bikes on it.

  100. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by Live2rideUtah View Post
    Lets see some pics of the new car. Gas mileage still looking nice for you?
    No pics yet. I need to wash it first. You know how it is.....

    Gas mileage has more or less settled down on 33 MPG average or so. That's mostly just doing a 15 mile one way commute with about equal city and highway driving. For a car that should max out at 30 on the highway, I'm pretty happy. I got that trailer hitch on it and with a Santa Cruz Tallboy LT hung off the back, it still showed 34ish average for a 200 mile round trip.

    Now that I'm off the break in period, I can goose the engine a little bit. Once you get north of about 3500 or so, you can really feel it come alive. That stuff about boxer engines being balanced well is true too. Letting it run out to 5000 RPM, you'd never know unless you looked down at the tach. It gets louder, of course, but there's no extra tactile feedback like vibration that I'm used to.

    One thing I know, that car is rampage beast God mode in the rain. I had a chance to drive it through some pretty ugly storms lately and it feels really well planted. It just chews through puddles like they aren't there. Symmetrical AWD is legit.

    Overall, I'm happy. Hell, if current trends continue, which I assume they will, I can keep it for five years, put 100K on it, and sell it for what I paid for it. Used car values are a joke.

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