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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcaino View Post
    The Outback is a couple grand more, gets worse gas mileage, and is frankly more space than I need for my wife, myself, and our dog.

    If I had children, I'd probably go for an Outback, but the Impreza is the more practical car for us.

    Different strokes....
    Exactly. I like theXV but my next vehicle will be an outback. Will need the extra space.
    It's easy to make a buck, it's much harder to make a difference."

  2. #52
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    Is it just me or did the Forester start out a lot like the XV Crosstrek before it turned into the monster it is today?
    I like to ride bikes.

  3. #53
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    Was I the only one who grew up just fine in a family with small cars? We made long road trips annually in Cavalier-sized cars. I don't understand why people think a kid or two requires a big vehicle.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    Was I the only one who grew up just fine in a family with small cars? We made long road trips annually in Cavalier-sized cars. I don't understand why people think a kid or two requires a big vehicle.
    Seriously. The only thing that I will say that goes against this theory, is that if you haven't really experienced them in the past few years, modern infant and child car seats are absolutely massive. A lot of people move to midsize cars simply because they can't fit a child seat behind them (mostly taller people if we're talking modern cars of the past few years). Especially when the convertible seats are still rear facing and reclined.

    I had to give up my beloved SF Forester (which was in shockingly wonderful condition) when we found out baby # 2 was on the way, because at only 6 ft tall my seat was all the way back in that car and my knee would still be against the dash, so I could make zero concessions to a child seat behind me.

    Baby seats aside, the magical solution to not having to buy a larger car for the 3 times a year you actually need a larger car, is a cargo box for the roof. We have a Thule Atlantis and it's only like 16 cu. ft. and is amazing how much we can fit in there.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    Was I the only one who grew up just fine in a family with small cars? We made long road trips annually in Cavalier-sized cars. I don't understand why people think a kid or two requires a big vehicle.
    Bigger vehicles do tend to make long trips easier. For example...my wife, 21 month old, and I loaded up my 3-door Rabbit to head up to North GA for 4 or so days. Cargo space inside gets sucked up quickly so I end up putting quite a bit on the roof in a cargo bag (mainly the stroller and a few of my biking things). It is kind of tedious getting the bag up there, loading it, strapping it down, etc. Then when I get to the destination I have to unload and unstrap it so the empty bag doesn't flap around when I drive. Thankfully I am tall so I don't need a step stool or whatever but I can see it being a pain in the ass for shorter folks. MPG on the highway suffers quite a bit as well. I averaged around 21mpg highway cruising at or just below the speed limit.

    In the past we had done a longer road trip in my Passat wagon with way more crap. The interior swallowed it all and there was no change in fuel economy.

    Long story short...a larger vehicle does make things easier but it isn't a necessity. If you don't do a ton of long road trips then the overall advantage goes to going with the smaller car. If you are on the road a ton with your family then it may be advantageous to go with a larger car.
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    Was I the only one who grew up just fine in a family with small cars? We made long road trips annually in Cavalier-sized cars. I don't understand why people think a kid or two requires a big vehicle.
    I had to go look up dimensions on the car I grew up in (1988 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight). That was a boat (and underpowered... 160HP? really?) back then, but now I see that that car was just about the same size (interior space) as my current car (2012 Mazdaspeed 3). I think cars, in general, have gotten rather fat in recent history for my car to be considered "midsize" yet be as big as a former "full size." We did road trips every summer in that car and we NEVER had a problem with space. I think people today think they need to bring more than they actually need when traveling. I mean my wife and I hauled all of our vacation crap and 13 cases (156 bottles) of wine back home last year in her 3 and were still not crowded....
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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by mopartodd View Post
    Too much money for that small of a car...You can get an Outback which IS a superior vehicle to the Impreza...
    Size doesn't have much to do with quality and price. You can get big crappy cars new if you really want.

    I'd rather have smaller higher quality cars that are well designed, well built and well equipped.


    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    Was I the only one who grew up just fine in a family with small cars? We made long road trips annually in Cavalier-sized cars. I don't understand why people think a kid or two requires a big vehicle.
    Seriously. I hate driving big cars. I drive an F550 13,000 pound truck for work all the time. I get enough 'big' in my life.

    I can pile my wife, two kids two adult bikes, two kid bikes, and a week's worth of gear for a road trip vacation in our Audi A4 Avant wagon, and it's fine, and that was before I bought a roof box. I'm not exactly sure why folks think they need three times that cargo room for just themselves for a weekend, but some do. I guess if I were into sea kayaking or kiteboarding I might want more room.

    Some folks just grew up in Chevy Suburbans, and think that you can't do with less room than that, or something.

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  8. #58
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    Waiting for this...


    Bit larger than Impreza, probably similar to Outback but with an actual functional full length roof rail system instead of that butt ugly and totally useless piece of shiite on the Outback. Much as I love Subarus, this may have too many pluses ( including diesel) to pass up.

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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCanoeDog View Post
    Waiting for this...


    Bit larger than Impreza, probably similar to Outback but with an actual functional full length roof rail system instead of that butt ugly and totally useless piece of shiite on the Outback. Much as I love Subarus, this may have too many pluses ( including diesel) to pass up.

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    If they offered that in the states in 4motion TDI, i'd buy that.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by aircooled View Post
    I would not buy a first model year car. Too many problems. Plus, Subie's are known for head gasket issues.
    The former is outdated info by about 25 years and the latter outdated by about 10 years.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raymo853 View Post
    The former is outdated info by about 25 years and the latter outdated by about 10 years.
    Actually that's wrong, first year model cars are plagued with various issues. Most of the time the design is solid, but parts components from suppliers are usually at fault. New extensive accelerated lab have been a major improvement in reliability, but even today the first and second year warranty claims are usually a cars fine tuning platform. Warranty claim numbers are reviewed, the problems with the highest amount of claims take top priority. The manufacturer then investigates and usually it means going to a supplier to have them make their part a little different.

    The subuaru head gasket problem of the late 90's and early 2000's is a classic example of this. The suppliers promised this awsome new head gasket which some car companies tested and switched too. But then after a few years problems started to arise, subaru finally switched to a new composite head gasket around 2003ish which has proven much better. Subaru axed the old part and now if you go to the dealer for a new head gasket, the parts system shows the updated part.

  12. #62
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    I would want more real world time on the new 2.0 powerplant before I buy. Let the early adopters work out the bugs.

    The Golf/Jetta Allroad thing looks pretty cool...although it is extremely lame to even offer that in FWD.
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  13. #63
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    The roof rails on the OB have been changed for MY 2013 and the crossbars are further apart than before. I don't use the roof rails on my OB so I could care less, but I see the problem for those who do, as the crossbars are too closely spaced together on the 2010/11/12 models.
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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by OscarW View Post
    The roof rails on the OB have been changed for MY 2013 and the crossbars are further apart than before. I don't use the roof rails on my OB so I could care less, but I see the problem for those who do, as the crossbars are too closely spaced together on the 2010/11/12 models.
    That's only one problem with that abomination. Worse is that one cannot fit aftermarket rail grabbers which is what one needs for water sports. Carry 2 canoes and you need 72" bars, ideally widely spaced. Roof rails like what Mercedes and VW and (formerly older Subaru Outbacks) are far more versatile for this and everything else. For some one that as you say doesn't use the rack no big deal. For those like me, its a deal breaker.
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  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCanoeDog View Post
    Waiting for this...
    Is that an Allroad resurrect for the masses? If built in NA thank you I am going to pass...

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCanoeDog View Post
    That's only one problem with that abomination. Worse is that one cannot fit aftermarket rail grabbers which is what one needs for water sports. Carry 2 canoes and you need 72" bars, ideally widely spaced. Roof rails like what Mercedes and VW and (formerly older Subaru Outbacks) are far more versatile for this and everything else. For some one that as you say doesn't use the rack no big deal. For those like me, its a deal breaker.
    My mom has the previous Gen3 OB and those rails are nicer. The only thing you can do on the new OB is to take the rails of and fit, IIRC, Thule towers in their place and than fit wider cross rails on them. Subaru missed the boat with their "clever" design..
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  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by OscarW View Post
    Subaru missed the boat with their "clever" design..
    Exactly! 'Too clever by half " I think is the expression. They should try KISS.
    Oddly enough, the current Tribeca has a very nice set of roof rails!
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  18. #68
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    Yes and the Tribeca is an outgoing model if I heard it right..For the American market SOA feels the need to make the OB look more like an SUV while in Europe the OB looks more like the VW with similar roof rails as the VW too. The OB sits also lower to the ground and has self leveling rear suspension...
    For us car nuts in the US we get the short straw...
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  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Is that an Allroad resurrect for the masses? If built in NA thank you I am going to pass...
    I would guess hecho en Mexico like all the other current Jettas...unless it is on the new MKVII platform then MAYBE we will get a German made version. If memory serves the MKIV Jetta wagon was manufactured in Germany. Crossing my fingers with this new Allroad thing.
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  20. #70
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    I agree

    I agree. The outback keeps getting bigger and bigger. I think it's gotten too big to be quite honest. If it continues to grow then the XV will be my next vehicle instead of an outback.
    It's easy to make a buck, it's much harder to make a difference."

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNickels View Post
    I agree. The outback keeps getting bigger and bigger. I think it's gotten too big to be quite honest. If it continues to grow then the XV will be my next vehicle instead of an outback.
    It's like a half an inch shorter than the 2005-09. Granted, it is wider, and a little taller. But usually bigger = less efficient. In this case, it's bigger but more efficient and faster. The only sucky thing is yeah, the handling isn't as brisk as the 05-09. And styling, I always liked the 05-09, but the 2010 plus styling is the result of modern crash regulations, so I guess such is a modern car.

  22. #72
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    ... and if we just ...

    The big improvement in the new OB is the interior space, as it is much bigger inside while keeping the dimensions on the outside within inches of the previous model. The new OB just looks bigger than it is, as it actually is an inch shorter than the Gen3.
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  23. #73
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    I would love to snatch one


    But no can do at this time!!

  24. #74
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    video review

    Here is a video i found that has some decent info on the Crosstrek.

    2013 Subaru XV Crosstrek exposed: Everything you&#39;ve ever wanted to know - YouTube

  25. #75
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    We might be looking at one of these VX crosstrek things to replace my wifes truck in year or two.

    It'll be a nice compliment to the JK I have. The crosstrek looks like it'll be able to handle some decently bad forest service roads and it gets decent mileage for a fulltime awd system. The big issue will be if there is enough leg/head room. The previous gen Imprezas were too tight and we ended up passing on them because of that.

  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by rho View Post
    We might be looking at one of these VX crosstrek things to replace my wifes truck in year or two.

    It'll be a nice compliment to the JK I have. The crosstrek looks like it'll be able to handle some decently bad forest service roads and it gets decent mileage for a fulltime awd system. The big issue will be if there is enough leg/head room. The previous gen Imprezas were too tight and we ended up passing on them because of that.
    I strongly urge you to go check out the new ones...way more room that the previous model years...
    Oh noes. I'm going to drink the Kool-Aid.

  27. #77
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    UPDATE...sorta

    i was in contact with our local subaru dealer and they told me they had 3 coming in, i asked them to give me a call when they came in, but apparently they arrived on a friday evening and were all gone on saturday!! Dang! looks like its gonna be harder to get ahold of one of these things than i thought! On a good note they have one they are saving back for some local car show, so i can go check it out in person, but cant test drive it or try to purchase it til after the show.

  28. #78
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    What state do you live in? I'm the internet sales guy for my dealer, we have like 3 in stock with another 3-4 showing up over the next two weeks. I'm in eastern PA, if you are remotely nearby, you're welcome to PM me for more info!

  29. #79
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    I got to test drive one yesterday with the cvt. i liked it. Plenty peppy for me, and the space was good. i like the ergonomics, the light/wiper controls are the same as my Honda. I don't think my xm skydock will fit in the car, but I've been thinking about dropping that service anyway. The handling is much better than I expected. It felt pretty sporty railing it around a roundabout. Also very quiet in the rough road situations. The seat back protectors are going to be an essential accessory for bike hauling.

    I wish there were some dirt roads around where I could have gotten a feel for that part of it, so I'll have to trust that it's pretty capable there. I like the standard seat/wiper/mirror heaters. Makes it a good winter vehicle.

    We are gonna order one and were told that lead time for orders is now 4mo because some dealers were abusing the 6wk order lead times before. 7500mi oil change intervals are nice. Engine layout is also nice. Oil filter setup is the best I've seen (minor, but after owning an 88 Toyota tercel that required getting under the car to change the oil filter I notice these things).

    My car will be paid off in April so right now I'd like to have the house sold before we order. Might be a tall order but I don't want too much on our plate at once. Moving halfway across the country is expensive.

  30. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    What state do you live in? I'm the internet sales guy for my dealer, we have like 3 in stock with another 3-4 showing up over the next two weeks. I'm in eastern PA, if you are remotely nearby, you're welcome to PM me for more info!
    thanks for the offer but im in Las Vegas.

  31. #81
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    No problem.

    Also, for anyone who is thinking of ordering one: the wait time for factory orders is bumped up to at least 4 months now. So if you find one in stock you like, snag it!

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    I test drove one the other day. Like everyone else said it could use a little more power. Comfortable interior that makes sense. INot really nough rooom for me to sleep in the back. I didn't actually try though. It had a little stiffer/sportier suspension than what I am looking for do 300mile trips for work.

  33. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    No problem.

    Also, for anyone who is thinking of ordering one: the wait time for factory orders is bumped up to at least 4 months now. So if you find one in stock you like, snag it!
    Ugh! I hope that is not true. We test drove one today for my wife, and were told much shorter lead times. We really liked it. But no order placed yet, though.

  34. #84
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    Very true. Sorry. If your dealer has one in stock that isn't what you are looking for, you can ask them to trade with another dealer. There's a decent amount out there, at least in my area, that I've been doing that with success for most clients.

    Factory orders usually take 5-8 weeks. But they changed that like a week ago to 4 months, and I definitely believe that. If you were told otherwise either your salesperson didn't get the memo or he/she is being less than truthful.

    We have customers who pre ordered XV's before they were released, who are still waiting for cars. The crazy thing is we've seen identical cars to these ordered cars being delivered as stock vehicles to other stores! Its ridiculous. Their distribution system is effed- I'm not sure why, other than the company is growing so fast that they can't keep up? But that isn't an excuse for neglecting faithful customers who pre ordered without even seeing one in person.

    Anyway, this may be a no no for me as an employee to say on a public forum, but I figured it is best said so that none of you are disappointed. If your dealer doesn't want to try to dealer trade for you, try another dealer before factory ordering.

  35. #85
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    Thanks, XJaredX. Good info to know.

    I found two of the exact models that we are looking for within New England. We'll see what happens.

  36. #86
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    Hey guys, I'm new to this forum and fairly new to the mtb scene, but I actually just purchased an xv crosstrek a couple days ago from a dealer in NJ but they had to get it from another dealer so I'm waiting for the arrival of my new car! I've been looking for a car that could fit all my needs as a commuter, biker, drummer, and a good road trip car and this fit the bill! They are out there if you do your research and find one like I did! I suggest if you are ready to buy and find one that you jump on it asap because I've been seeing the crosstreks leave my local dealer within one day upon arrival! good luck to anyone else looking for one! ill be sure to post pics or answer any questions when mine comes in!

  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdrchuck View Post
    I test drove one the other day. Like everyone else said it could use a little more power.
    Not like everyone else. I think it's fine. It's an economy car.

  38. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Is that an Allroad resurrect for the masses? If built in NA thank you I am going to pass...
    Audi is bringing the Allroad back to the US, but it will be an A4 Avant, not an A6. Also, no air suspension, which was the coolest thing about the A6 Allroad.

    That said, the A4 Allroad will be like 800 pounds lighter than the A6 Allroad.



    Getting off topic here. The Allroad is probably a $45k car, compared to the Subie which is half that.

  39. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    Not like everyone else. I think it's fine. It's an economy car.
    Heh... 20 years ago, a car that went 0-60 in 9.5 seconds was considered to be pretty dang peppy. An 8 second car was considered fast.

    Now we whine if our cars don't go 0-60 in 8 seconds.

  40. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    No problem.

    Also, for anyone who is thinking of ordering one: the wait time for factory orders is bumped up to at least 4 months now. So if you find one in stock you like, snag it!
    What configurations have the huge wait time? Manual transmissions? Option packages?

  41. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    What configurations have the huge wait time? Manual transmissions? Option packages?
    ALL of them. As far as XV's go, I mean. It's ridiculous. All Japanese-made cars (except Forester, which you can't factory order anymore for '13 due to switchover to '14 production soon) are listed at 4 month ETA, all Indiana-made stuff 3 months. Oh, BRZ's are all listed as May 2013 ETA!

    This was just announced October 25th so I have no idea how accurate it is- my hope is that the cars will show up earlier than anticipated. And again, it only affects people who special order a car. I just wanted to spread the word on here- if you see an XV you like, jump on it, unless you can wait til near springtime.

    They don't give us a reason- which lends credence to my theory that maybe they are purposely overstating the estimates, as that may be better than telling a customer "6-8 weeks" and then having it turn into 16 weeks.

    They are consistently outselling themselves at least every year since I've been selling them, so I think maybe they are at a point where they are in need of more production capabilities. The '14 Forester being built in Indiana should help that, I hope. And yes, I sell them and would gladly buy an Indiana-made Subaru. I don't know why people get all weird about that.
    Last edited by XJaredX; 11-12-2012 at 11:48 AM.

  42. #92
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    I ordered my Crosstrek just before they bumped it out to the 4 month wait time. Heard back from the salesman a few days after that and the order had been accepted and a few days later that it was approved. Now they're telling me it will be in before the end of the month but they can't give me any better info than that. I have the VON and was wondering if there's any way to use that to get more details from SOA. I had to order one because it seems to be just about impossible to get a Limited with the black interior and moonroof. Why would Subaru even consider a car like this with that light tan interior?

    Being carless SUX! I have only ridden once since my Challenger got wrecked by an oblivious woman running a stop sign at double the speed limit at the end of September

    Heh, if you need a BRZ my dealer has three of them waiting for a new home.

  43. #93
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    ^ your best bet is to simply ask your salesperson again. They shouldn't mind giving you an update if you ask. Ask if there's a VIN yet in addition to the VON. That's a good sign if there is

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    It should not be that hard to buy an economy car in 2012.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    It should not be that hard to buy an economy car in 2012.
    Um, it is if the manfacturer can't keep up with demand

  46. #96
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    Obviously....

    Quote Originally Posted by gravitylover View Post
    Why would Subaru even consider a car like this with that light tan interior?
    ... you don't live in a place that gets a lot of sun and heat.


    I had a Scirocco with black leather interior, and it sucked every time I got in that thing, even with towels on the seats. My behind -> Those things left barbecue grill marks on my legs when I wore shorts.

    Now, my car has tan pleather, and it's a lot better, but still sometimes singes my behind. At least the pleather cleans up really easily. If I get in my car with a muddy skunk stripe from riding, I either change my clothes, or put a towel down.

  47. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    They don't give us a reason- which lends credence to my theory that maybe they are purposely overstating the estimates, as that may be better than telling a customer "6-8 weeks" and then having it turn into 16 weeks.
    my dealer told me that part of the wait time increase was because some dealers were abusing the special order and ordering a popular model themselves before the customer came in and asked for one.

  48. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by gravitylover View Post
    Why would Subaru even consider a car like this with that light tan interior?
    You should hear how pissed people are at Ford for NOT offering light cloth upholstery in Texas for their c-max hybrid. My wife's jeep has tan leather and while it's not as bad as black leather it will still burn your skin. And 4yrs in Texas really took its toll on the stuff. Lots of cracking on the seats and door panels, the steering wheel wrap is floppy. Heat is not friendly to leather. My Fit has some leather accents. The leather on my shift knob is falling off. Thankfully I can replace it easily.

    When we get an xv crosstrek, I am thinking of getting some high quality washable seat covers. Maybe a neoprene or something. Just because sometimes I do get wet or muddy and don't have a change of clothes with me.

  49. #99
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    Are not Subarus more likely so be seen in colder places with a lot of snow and ice rather than in the heat of the South?

  50. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Are not Subarus more likely so be seen in colder places with a lot of snow and ice rather than in the heat of the South?
    There are quite a few in my town and the nearest dealer is more than 100mi away

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