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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    There are quite a few in my town and the nearest dealer is more than 100mi away
    I know but come to NH, ME or VT and you will see nothing but subbies there. I would think the harsher climate states would be the primary market and that dark interior would be more fitting for that climate and road conditions.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    I know but come to NH, ME or VT and you will see nothing but subbies there. I would think the harsher climate states would be the primary market and that dark interior would be more fitting for that climate and road conditions.
    I have not found it to matter much in the cold. My Fit is black all around. Sucks in TX but winters up north it is just as cold as my last car that had tan cloth.

    My dealer told me that subie tends to alternate the exterior and interior colors to appease different people in the next model year because I think some of the exterior colors would look better with dark interior than tan. For me it's mostly aesthetics. Esp since I am moving north in about a month and won't be worrying about the heat anymore

  3. #103
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    Picking up a Venetian Red Pearl 5 speed in about a month or so. I was looking for something good on gas, standard transmission, AWD, and could tow my motorcycles/dirtbikes. Everything had only 1 or 2 of the 4, but the XV has everything I'm looking for. Very excited to pick it up. I got the optional cross bars and trailer hitch. I plan on tossing the mountain bike and snowboards on the roof.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Are not Subarus more likely so be seen in colder places with a lot of snow and ice rather than in the heat of the South?
    Loads of Subies around here in the NorCal Bay Area. Lots of folks around here like to go to Tahoe for the weekend in winter.

    It never snows here more than a very light dusting once a decade, but we do get crazy rain.

  5. #105
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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Are not Subarus more likely so be seen in colder places with a lot of snow and ice rather than in the heat of the South?
    Plenty of Subie's down here in S.Florida too. Lot's of WRX and Fozzy's and the new OB is gaining momentum also...
    Current ride(s) 2011 Santa Cruz Blur LT and a Norco Threshold SL with Di2

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    Also, no air suspension, which was the coolest thing about the A6 Allroad.

    That said, the A4 Allroad will be like 800 pounds lighter than the A6 Allroad.
    Google "Audi Allroad reliability air suspension" and it's is the #1 "issue" with that car.

    It kept me far away from buying one way back when. Lexus has/had the same issues with their Land Cruiser version LX470 with "AHC" system. Extremely expensive to fix once you develop issues.

    Bring over the TDI version A4 Allroad - then we're talking!

  7. #107
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    Oh, I fully get that

    Quote Originally Posted by GSJ1973 View Post
    Google "Audi Allroad reliability air suspension" and it's is the #1 "issue" with that car.

    It kept me far away from buying one way back when. Lexus has/had the same issues with their Land Cruiser version LX470 with "AHC" system. Extremely expensive to fix once you develop issues.

    Bring over the TDI version A4 Allroad - then we're talking!
    Not to mention, most owners drive it at full height all the time. What happens is when the car hits 30 mph, it drops to the lowest setting, then lifts back up when it stops, putting loads of wear on the system.

    There are aftermarket bags that last way longer than stock, as well. One company has a lifetime warranty on the bags. You wear them out, they send you new ones, you send the dead ones back. They're actually pretty easy to change out for anybody with moderate wrenching skills.

    Heh... did you know you can lower the Allroad in software? You can use the VAG.COM to fool the computer into thinking the car is higher than it is, so the computer dumps it down lower than stock.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    ^ your best bet is to simply ask your salesperson again. They shouldn't mind giving you an update if you ask. Ask if there's a VIN yet in addition to the VON. That's a good sign if there is
    They keep telling me they don't have the VIN. Does this mean the car hasn't shipped yet or is the salesman just being lazy?

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by gravitylover View Post
    They keep telling me they don't have the VIN. Does this mean the car hasn't shipped yet or is the salesman just being lazy?
    If they don't have the VIN it means I highly highly doubt your car will be there before the end of the month like they said. I doubt its laziness, it takes like 10 seconds to check your order status; I'm just not sure why they told you it would arrive so quick. Factory order times on XV's have been horrible like I mentioned earlier.

  10. #110
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    Here it is




    I'll get some more pics of it tomorrow with bikes on it.

  11. #111
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    Awesome car! Wheels somewhat remind me of my 12' Focus at a glance.

    Post your impressions later on.

    Btw-you have a ghost in the back seat

  12. #112
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    Nice car!! Looks good in that color.
    Current ride(s) 2011 Santa Cruz Blur LT and a Norco Threshold SL with Di2

  13. #113
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    Here are a few pics of my Venetian red pearl 5 speed. They are from the dealer that is shipping the car to my current dealer. Hoping to pick it up in a couple weeks. They need to ship it and then order/install a hitch.





  14. #114
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    Just saw one of these yesterday being driven around! Pretty sharp car if I do say so myself.

  15. #115
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    Ahhhh, nice to see more XV owners now that are also fellow MTBers


    I'll have one for sure.. in 2 years

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Alberto_ View Post
    Awesome car! Wheels somewhat remind me of my 12' Focus at a glance.

    Post your impressions later on.

    Btw-you have a ghost in the back seat
    She's a cute ghost that will outride most 13 year old girl ghosts

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarW View Post
    Nice car!! Looks good in that color.
    As soon as I saw that color I knew if I got the car it had to be in Khaki. I like the blue too but the thought of getting into the car after a muddy ride and having that tan interior made me shiver. There was just no way I could do orange and the dark grey is just kinda meh

    Impressions - It's much quieter inside than I expected. I've had Subies for fifteen years and have been in a few of the new Imprezas so I expected the typical drone on the highway but it's not there. This car has an almost full plastic skid plate underneath and the exhaust is under that so it's isolated from the cabin and there is a bunch of sound dampening material under the hood, on the firewall and the underbody has a rubbery undercoating that seems to help some too. Unfortunately the tires are noisy but I'll burn through them in year and come up with something better for 8 month use. The steering, for electric rather than otherwise, has a really good feel. On center is good and as you are cornering there is a fair bit of resistance that my Outback doesn't have and the electro-hydraulic that I had in my Challenger definitely didn't have. I like it.

    I only have 140 miles on it so a little more time and I'll get back to ya with some more thoughts. For now here's some pics -


    Hi Thelma



  17. #117
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    aftermarket upgrades

    So with the lack of power being one of the biggest complaints in reviews i've been reading. I wonder if there be third party performance chip upgrades and what not to squeeze out more HP?

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by summud View Post
    So with the lack of power being one of the biggest complaints in reviews i've been reading. I wonder if there be third party performance chip upgrades and what not to squeeze out more HP?
    There is no lack of power unless you are trying to compensate for something.

  19. #119
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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    There is no lack of power unless you are trying to compensate for something.
    True that
    Everything is relative and if you want power than Subaru is not really a brand associated with that, the WRX STi excepted of course..
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  20. #120
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    My small penis aside, I don't see anything wrong with having a little more horsepower in a car that I plan on loading down with gear and driving through the mountains. Besides some of the chips I was looking at claim to increase horsepower as well as gaining a few MPG, how is that a bad thing?

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by summud View Post
    So with the lack of power being one of the biggest complaints in reviews i've been reading. I wonder if there be third party performance chip upgrades and what not to squeeze out more HP?
    That isn't really going to do jack squat. If you had a turbo and could simply up the boost, take more air in, mix it with more fuel from the injectors, then yes, but "chip upgrades" are ridiculously unhelpful with a NA engine. Some people think if they put on an intake, flash the computer, and put on an exhaust, they can turn a 150hp engine into a 250hp engine. It doesn't work like that, and about the only place it does is with turbo stuff, but even that would be too big of a jump to maintain any kind of volumetric efficiency and the injectors would likely not support it. You can't get something from nothing.

    And tunes that 'increase mileage" are suspect as well. If the manufacturer knew of a quick and easy way to "increase mileage", don't you think they'd do that? Some of the ECU upgrades for cars are reported to increase mileage and power. How? By leaning out the mixture and allowing it to burn hotter. Realize that some of these engines (especially turbo) run very hot and need the extra fuel for cooling. So when a tuner looks at the mixture and see's how "rich" it is, sometimes they don't fully consider WHY it's so rich, and soon you end up wrecking the engine because they squeezed too much from it.


    BTW, I would flash and tune my WRX all the time. It was fun. But that was a different animal (with mods) and it's not the same thing.

    Some cars like 335s and others have fairly mild tunes that can be "turned up", again due to the turbo-nature of the car. Others still have "chips" for people to buy, but those are more for suckers.

    You want to make the car faster? Put in stiffer anti-sways. You can usually do that easily under the cost of a ECU flash/chip. You can often get an entire stage-1 kit for suspension under that. Then save up for coil-overs or go with an inexpensive coil-over package. Lots of people chop springs because they like the "look", but it doesn't do nearly as much for traction and handling compared to the above, and of course you'll be far quicker in corners with a stage-1 handling package, heck, just the sways along usually.
    Last edited by Jayem; 12-03-2012 at 11:27 PM.
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  22. #122
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    maybe the dude that posted the side by side pics of his car could edit to post them beneath each other and then subsequent posts would be readable?
    https://get.google.com/albumarchive/...127?source=pwa

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  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    I got to test drive one yesterday with the cvt. i liked it. Plenty peppy for me, and the space was good. i like the ergonomics, the light/wiper controls are the same as my Honda. I don't think my xm skydock will fit in the car, but I've been thinking about dropping that service anyway. The handling is much better than I expected. It felt pretty sporty railing it around a roundabout. Also very quiet in the rough road situations. The seat back protectors are going to be an essential accessory for bike hauling.

    I wish there were some dirt roads around where I could have gotten a feel for that part of it, so I'll have to trust that it's pretty capable there. I like the standard seat/wiper/mirror heaters. Makes it a good winter vehicle.

    We are gonna order one and were told that lead time for orders is now 4mo because some dealers were abusing the 6wk order lead times before. 7500mi oil change intervals are nice. Engine layout is also nice. Oil filter setup is the best I've seen (minor, but after owning an 88 Toyota tercel that required getting under the car to change the oil filter I notice these things).

    My car will be paid off in April so right now I'd like to have the house sold before we order. Might be a tall order but I don't want too much on our plate at once. Moving halfway across the country is expensive.
    NateHawk - I'm looking into replacing my ooooold Civic with 220k miles and leaking like a Fox fork. I've narrowed down the choice to the Fit, Crosstrek and Mazda3. I've not driven the Crosstrek, but the Fit was really nice. Ample cargo, excellent MPG and Honda reliability. The wife got a new Outback recently and I'm really impressed. Can you do a quick comparo between the two? Just trying to see if the $5k premium would be worth it on the Subaru.

  24. #124
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    Hello All,

    New to the group. I have had my Crosstrek for three weeks and driven it over 1,500 miles in various conditions. It's a great little SUV, with great road feel, performance and mpg. My previous car was a 2005 Subaru Outback 2.5XT turbo. It went like a rocket (250hp), but got about 19mpg mixed. The Crosstrek obviously does not have that power, but gets WAY better gas mileage and uses regular gas (my turbo was premium only). Ignore the negative reviews that slam the Crosstrek for poor power. Yes, it's not an SRX (duh), but guess what, it's very peppy off the line and only lags a *little* in mid-range acceleration, but not nearly enough to make you think it cannot handle all conditions. I have had zero problems in traffic, up hills, merging, passing, etc. And it is also fun to drive, with good cornering and a sporty look that does not make you feel you are driving a stodgy compact. All in all, I am very happy with the Crosstrek. Oh, one minor point: the suspension is indeed stiff, real stiff. You will feel the road. For me, this took some getting used to, because I am not the spring chicken I once was. But it really does not detract from the overall high marks for the car, and no doubt will pay off when I go off-road. Well worth a test drive.

  25. #125
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    For those wondering about lead times--Not long ago I read an interview with the US ceo of Subaru - A few things stood out-He said he does not hold very many days of inventory compaired to industry standard/other car makes keep months of inventory available - Subaru does not - Subaru has a very small part of the market but a very dedicated customer base
    Interesting stuff if you like that sort of thing...Sorry I could not find the original article but found this one:
    INTERVIEW: Fuji Heavy Bets on US Market to Drive Subaru Sales Growth - WSJ.com

  26. #126
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    Fun fact: I think this is on other forums but I just learned from a Subaru tech that I work with that the Forester OEM hitch (09-13) works with the XV. I say this because if you go OEM it's a bit cheaper than the XV hitch for some strange reason. By learn, I mean saw him do it

  27. #127
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    Just got word today that my wife's XV is en route. Still 6-8 weeks out, though. Gray, Limited, loaded. Can't wait!

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    Fun fact: I think this is on other forums but I just learned from a Subaru tech that I work with that the Forester OEM hitch (09-13) works with the XV. I say this because if you go OEM it's a bit cheaper than the XV hitch for some strange reason. By learn, I mean saw him do it
    Any 2" options that will work on XV. I'm new to this Subaru stuff.

  29. #129
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    Hitch

    Quote Originally Posted by in the trees View Post
    Any 2" options that will work on XV. I'm new to this Subaru stuff.
    Curt has a new Crosstrek specific hitch with a 2" receiver.

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  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by stremf View Post
    NateHawk - I'm looking into replacing my ooooold Civic with 220k miles and leaking like a Fox fork. I've narrowed down the choice to the Fit, Crosstrek and Mazda3. I've not driven the Crosstrek, but the Fit was really nice. Ample cargo, excellent MPG and Honda reliability. The wife got a new Outback recently and I'm really impressed. Can you do a quick comparo between the two? Just trying to see if the $5k premium would be worth it on the Subaru.
    It is hard to make too many comparisons. I have owned the fit Since 07 and drove the xv for 20min. i like the fit. It is great but it feels cheaper inside than the xv. I also have the manual which is quicker than the auto. The xv is WAY quieter than the fit. Def worth 5k

  31. #131
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    I know the urge to compare the Crosstrek to the 3 is there but don't bother doing it.

    I am really impressed with my XV. It's a surprisingly pleasant car to drive, a little noisier on the highway than I'd like but most of that is the OE tires. The mpg is pretty good, I have a little over 1k miles on the car now and am running 28 going round trip in and out of NYC. I'm hoping to bring that up a bit after I change the diff fluids, oil and when we go to summer gas next year. I have already seen 35+ mpg on the road though and for a car with the "wind cheating" profile this has I think that's pretty good!

    Anybody that whines about the lack of power just needs to learn to use what's available, don't be afraid to wind the motor up a bit because most of the torque in this thing is between 4200 and 5k.

    I can't wait for it to snow

  32. #132
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    Finally got to drive one!...

    These thing shave been flying off the shelves her in Vegas and after two failed attempts the dealership was able to keep one on the ground long enough for us to drive. I have to say, after all the talk of no power, (my own concerns included) I felt it was plenty peppy enough. Now, we are just waiting for them to find or order us one with everything we want on it.

  33. #133
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    Cute little car that resembles a Volvo XC60 (IMO) but shorter. Not a bad thing (for me anyway) as I love the looks of that little XC60.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  34. #134
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    I'm happy
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Subaru XV Crosstrek-uploadfromtaptalk1355716136611.jpg  


  35. #135
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    I think the wife and I are going to put our deposit down for one after the new year. delivery will overlap well with paying off my car so we'll still only have one car payment. I think we're going to wind up getting the Limited. Pricing out the builds we want with the Premium vs Limited leaves only a $1500 price difference between the Premium and Limited models. kinda makes sense to just do the upgrade.

  36. #136
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    Finally picked up my venetian red pearl 5 speed yesterday! I'll try and get some pictures up later. First impression; it drives like a tall car instead of an SUV type feel which I was expecting. The car is pretty peppy down low and has plenty of passing power on the highway. I am very pleased so far and can't wait to put some more miles on it. For those with the stock stereo who thinks it sounds like ****: With the unit OFF pres 1+4+tune to put it in through mode which sounds MUCH better. Some people have found turning loudness off sounds better, but I prefer the sound with it on. To turn that off with the unit ON press 1+6+tune.

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    I think the wife and I are going to put our deposit down for one after the new year. delivery will overlap well with paying off my car so we'll still only have one car payment. I think we're going to wind up getting the Limited. Pricing out the builds we want with the Premium vs Limited leaves only a $1500 price difference between the Premium and Limited models. kinda makes sense to just do the upgrade.
    I did the same upgrade with my outback. It made no sense to a-la-carte stuff I wanted in my car when a package deal offered more for almost the same $$..
    Enjoy your new ride!
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  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech420 View Post
    Finally picked up my venetian red pearl 5 speed yesterday! I'll try and get some pictures up later. First impression; it drives like a tall car instead of an SUV type feel which I was expecting. The car is pretty peppy down low and has plenty of passing power on the highway. I am very pleased so far and can't wait to put some more miles on it. For those with the stock stereo who thinks it sounds like ****: With the unit OFF pres 1+4+tune to put it in through mode which sounds MUCH better. Some people have found turning loudness off sounds better, but I prefer the sound with it on. To turn that off with the unit ON press 1+6+tune.
    Also, a lot of people test the stock radio and think it sounds like crap solely based off the FM radio. It sounds wayyyyy better with BT-a or iPod
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  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    Also, a lot of people test the stock radio and think it sounds like crap solely based off the FM radio. It sounds wayyyyy better with BT-a or iPod
    Coming from a 2010 Golf with Dynaudio system...the XV system does sound very muffled to me. Also, the bass can only be adjusted so far before rattling the door panels.

    My planned upgrades are a Pioneer avic-x940bt navigation system with steering wheel controls, upgraded speakers, and underseat subwoofer.

    I've already added a hitch and bike rack...will post pics later.

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by trrubicon06 View Post
    Coming from a 2010 Golf with Dynaudio system...the XV system does sound very muffled to me. Also, the bass can only be adjusted so far before rattling the door panels.

    My planned upgrades are a Pioneer avic-x940bt navigation system with steering wheel controls, upgraded speakers, and underseat subwoofer.

    I've already added a hitch and bike rack...will post pics later.
    Do what I just said and switch the EQ to through mode. With the unit OFF press 1+4+tune to switch to through mode.

  41. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech420 View Post
    Do what I just said and switch the EQ to through mode. With the unit OFF press 1+4+tune to switch to through mode.
    I did what you said, and it sounds a bit better. The quality of speakers and especially tweeters in the dash, hold it back. Thanks for that though. Any other tweaks like that?

  42. #142
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    Here she is with hitch and rack...






  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by trrubicon06 View Post
    I did what you said, and it sounds a bit better. The quality of speakers and especially tweeters in the dash, hold it back. Thanks for that though. Any other tweaks like that?
    I have the 4 speaker Kicker upgrade and they sound GREAT. I do want to add the tweeters also though. I have found at higher volume it sounds a bit muffled with loudness on. To turn loudness off with the unit ON press 1+6+tune

  44. #144
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    Nice!

    Quote Originally Posted by trrubicon06 View Post
    Here she is with hitch and rack...





    The DGM is my favorite color on the XV...looks great!
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  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCanoeDog View Post
    The DGM is my favorite color on the XV...looks great!
    Thanks! I originally wanted an orange XV, but the only one local was a MT. This one has really grown on me. Makes the XV look classy, but tough at the same time.

  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by trrubicon06 View Post
    Thanks! I originally wanted an orange XV, but the only one local was a MT. This one has really grown on me. Makes the XV look classy, but tough at the same time.
    Just saw you post this bike over on the subaruxvforum.com forum . I really like the orange for some reason, but wanted dark grey or venetian red. I ultimately decided on the red despite the stupid light colored interior

  47. #147
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    You can't go wrong with DGM or Graphite Gray on any Subaru.

    My current favorite, after finally seeing it in person, is the Desert Khaki. Not sure if I would choose it tho if I bought an XV but I love that they offered it.
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  48. #148
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    My wife and I ordered our XV yesterday super happy as it will be my car and she gets our Outback. This also means I was allowed to pick an Orange one The frustrating thing will be the 3 month wait for it to arrive Will post pictures once it arrives.
    Would rather be out riding!

    It's not just about a bike

  49. #149
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    Warning

    If you like to control your car and slide it around, look elsewhere.

    I have the manual. When you let off the gas the engine revs stay up. This means that if you get stuck in the snow you can't do the forward-back thing to work it out because it grinds when going from 1st to reverse.

    Furthermore the traction control does NOT turn off, even when the disable button is active. It robs the power. So when you're in the snow it cuts power, eliminating the benefits of AWD.

    Basically the care works against you. Its a huge disappointment.

    Subaru messed up the drive train on this car IMHO.
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  50. #150
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    I think your viscous setup is a little different from the one in the CVT equipped cars. I too found the nanny systems to be more intrusive than I like because you can't even force a drift to get through plow piles at corners, you just point the car straight into the pile and muscle through. I stopped in the middle of my hill and put my foot to the floor and the car wouldn't go anywhere after all the power was cut but when I just eased into it she walked right up like the road was dry. You are right about it killing the fun though, I even started a thread on the XV forum about it.

  51. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post

    My current favorite, after finally seeing it in person, is the Desert Khaki. Not sure if I would choose it tho if I bought an XV but I love that they offered it.
    Of course you would

  52. #152
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    We got the news that ours had been assembled a lintel before Christmas. Still awaiting its arrival in port. DGM, sunroof, Nav, etc.

  53. #153
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    I see gravitylover posted 35+mpg freeway already. Anyone else have highway MPG to report? Not interested in city mileage as there are just too many variables. Thanks.

  54. #154
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    31mpg with snowboards on the roof and the 5speed model.

  55. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by boudy View Post
    If you like to control your car and slide it around, look elsewhere.

    I have the manual. When you let off the gas the engine revs stay up. This means that if you get stuck in the snow you can't do the forward-back thing to work it out because it grinds when going from 1st to reverse.

    Furthermore the traction control does NOT turn off, even when the disable button is active. It robs the power. So when you're in the snow it cuts power, eliminating the benefits of AWD.

    Basically the care works against you. Its a huge disappointment.

    Subaru messed up the drive train on this car IMHO.
    What in the hell?

    Engine revs stay up? Doesn't that simply mean it has a heavy flywheel or something? Just let the revs go down before shifting gears?

    The VDC off disables most of the power-robbing properties of the VDC, but it is still active to make sure the car's AWD system is always transferring power efficiently and effectively. (Only the WRX STI, model years 2008 onwards, is the sole Subaru that has the ability to defeat VDC entirely without pulling a fuse)

    In your case, that meant killing the fun of getting the rear-end around. Might wanna look into what fuses may be able to disable the VDC entirely, but I would consult the advice of an expert before attempting that.


    Subaru didn't mess up the drive train...(or did they?) In your case, the VDC just seems too intrusive for you. Maybe a rear LSD may help get the car more spirited once you find a way to disable VDC?

  56. #156
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    Does the 2.0 manual feel underpowered compared to the older 2.5 manuals in other like cars? This car has like 22 HP less than my 2009 Impreza.

  57. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by AWDfreak View Post
    What in the hell?

    Engine revs stay up? Doesn't that simply mean it has a heavy flywheel or something? Just let the revs go down before shifting gears?

    The VDC off disables most of the power-robbing properties of the VDC, but it is still active to make sure the car's AWD system is always transferring power efficiently and effectively. (Only the WRX STI, model years 2008 onwards, is the sole Subaru that has the ability to defeat VDC entirely without pulling a fuse)

    In your case, that meant killing the fun of getting the rear-end around. Might wanna look into what fuses may be able to disable the VDC entirely, but I would consult the advice of an expert before attempting that.


    Subaru didn't mess up the drive train...(or did they?) In your case, the VDC just seems too intrusive for you. Maybe a rear LSD may help get the car more spirited once you find a way to disable VDC?
    I think its the programming of the throttle control that keeps the rev up. Its drive by wire so they can do whatever they want. The dealer tech told me it was deliberate.

    There are threads on NASIOC and on Forrester forums about this whole TC/VDC thing and how it neuters the car's ability to be driven through snow. The fuse that disables it also affects ABS and a few other things.

    All it takes is one wheel slipping abit and the the computer kills power to ALL of the wheels. The disable button seems to have a very slight affect.

    The point of driving a manual is to have fine grained control of the drive train.
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  58. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by stremf View Post
    I see gravitylover posted 35+mpg freeway already. Anyone else have highway MPG to report? Not interested in city mileage as there are just too many variables. Thanks.
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  59. #159
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    Just ordered a Satin White Premium 5-speed!

    Planning on installing a Curt hitch:
    Trailer Hitch by Curt for 2013 XV - C11286

    Onto which I'll mount a Kuat Beta rack:
    Products » Beta | Küat

    My question: If I'm only ever going to carry a 2-bike rack on this hitch is there any reason that I should go with a 2" rack and receiver rather than the 1.25" rack and receiver? I think the 1.25" receiver looks cleaner when the rack is not attached.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by Zirkel; 01-17-2013 at 11:11 PM.

  60. #160
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    Zirkel - I just got my hitch installed tonight on my 2013 Outback. $230 out the door at uhaul. It's tucked away really well and I can't even see the receiver unless I crouch down. Lifetime warranty, too, even if I mangle it up in an accident.

    I'd go for a 2". The 1.25" tends to sway too much for me. Plus you'll have more hitch accessory options. Also, if you ever decide to tow, well, you're already set up.

  61. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by boudy View Post
    I think its the programming of the throttle control that keeps the rev up. Its drive by wire so they can do whatever they want. The dealer tech told me it was deliberate.

    There are threads on NASIOC and on Forrester forums about this whole TC/VDC thing and how it neuters the car's ability to be driven through snow. The fuse that disables it also affects ABS and a few other things.

    All it takes is one wheel slipping abit and the the computer kills power to ALL of the wheels. The disable button seems to have a very slight affect.

    The point of driving a manual is to have fine grained control of the drive train.
    Aw... that's disappointing to be honest...

    So I guess if one wants to turn VDC off for good, gotta get a WRX STI... *sigh*


    I heard the same fuse that affects VDC and ABS will even affect the speedometer

    Drive-by-wire throttle for the lose? This is why I want to have multiple Subarus for specific applications. One of those Subarus will be a carbureted mid 1980's 4WD Subaru GL wagon with a dual-range manual transmission.

  62. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zirkel View Post
    Just ordered a Satin White Premium 5-speed!

    Planning on installing a Curt hitch:
    Trailer Hitch by Curt for 2013 XV - C11286

    Onto which I'll mount a Kuat Beta rack:
    Products » Beta | Küat

    My question: If I'm only ever going to carry a 2-bike rack on this hitch is there any reason that I should go with a 2" rack and receiver rather than the 1.25" rack and receiver? I think the 1.25" receiver looks cleaner when the rack is not attached.

    Thanks!
    No need for a 2" period as the car is only meant to tow up to 1500 lbs. Have you thought of going with the factory hitch? It is a very clean fit and you can only see the tip.

  63. #163
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    Tech420: From what I've read, and after reviewing the pdf installation instructions, the factory hitch requires the entire bumper to be removed in order to be installed. It's quite an extensive job that your dealership would need to complete. The Curt hitch is simple 4-bolt installation to the existing frame (that requires slightly enlarging 2 holes with a dremel tool) that even I could do at home. It also looks very clean and low profile in photos that I've seen.

    My question is whether to go with the 2" or 1.25" rack & receiver to carry two XC bikes? Is the 1.25" sufficiently stable enough for the job?

    Thanks!

  64. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zirkel View Post
    Tech420: From what I've read, and after reviewing the pdf installation instructions, the factory hitch requires the entire bumper to be removed in order to be installed. It's quite an extensive job that your dealership would need to complete. The Curt hitch is simple 4-bolt installation to the existing frame (that requires slightly enlarging 2 holes with a dremel tool) that even I could do at home. It also looks very clean and low profile in photos that I've seen.

    My question is whether to go with the 2" or 1.25" rack & receiver to carry two XC bikes? Is the 1.25" sufficiently stable enough for the job?

    Thanks!
    I had the dealer do mine There is no need for a 2" hitch when the car can't tow over 1500lbs. 2 bikes won't cause any type of issue at all. I had a hitch rack with 2 bikes on it for a few days before switching to my roof rack and it was perfectly fine.

  65. #165
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    I guess my experience is different. 1.25" swayed too much for me with one bike on the back. I was using a Thule Apex rack. 2" provided better stability, especially when going over rough roads to get to some of the trailheads. 2" has way more attachment options and doesn't hinder ground clearance. If anything, it would protect your rear bumper from getting torn apart.

    My dealer wanted $700 for the factory rack (1.25"). Uhaul charged $230 out the door. It's recessed about 2" from the end of the bumper so can't even tell it's there.

  66. #166
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    Walked into the dealer today to get an impreza 5 door for my wife. Did not want to order and wait for a crosstrek. Just so happens a crosstrek came in a few hours before and it was not spoken for! Traded her car in for 20% more than carmax offered so we pulled the trigger right away! Dark gray w/ black cloth interior. Will post pics soon.

  67. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    Also, a lot of people test the stock radio and think it sounds like crap solely based off the FM radio. It sounds wayyyyy better with BT-a or iPod
    Agree---the FM is cr+p in my new outback. Especially the HD stations as the volume continuously goes down, up or cuts out. At least not that way on regular stations.

    The iPOD does sound good.

  68. #168
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    Curt 2" hitch




  69. #169
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    Nice, just ordered one off amazon, easy install?

  70. #170
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    RideUT: Check out the installation video near the bottom of this page:

    Trailer Hitch by Curt for 2013 XV - C11286

    Trrubicon: That is one sweet looking ride (and I'm not talking about the bike!).

  71. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideut View Post
    Nice, just ordered one off amazon, easy install?

    Only tough part is enlarging the rear holes. I used a stepped drill bit, but you can use a metal file to make notches on each side of the holes. Just enough to allow the rear carriage bolt and plate to go through.

    I would suggest having a second hand or a rolling Jack to lift the hitch up while bolting up.




    Quote Originally Posted by Zirkel View Post
    Trrubicon: That is one sweet looking ride (and I'm not talking about the bike!).
    Thanks! I love it

  72. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmySlowRdr View Post
    Agree---the FM is cr+p in my new outback. Especially the HD stations as the volume continuously goes down, up or cuts out. At least not that way on regular stations.

    The iPOD does sound good.
    Is it because it is fading in and out of HD?

    Anyways, check this out- this applies to you because you have the display audio system, this may help you:

    ('11+) Impreza Limited "Hidden" Audio Menu - NASIOC
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  73. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by AWDfreak View Post
    What in the hell?

    Engine revs stay up? Doesn't that simply mean it has a heavy flywheel or something? Just let the revs go down before shifting gears?

    The VDC off disables most of the power-robbing properties of the VDC, but it is still active to make sure the car's AWD system is always transferring power efficiently and effectively. (Only the WRX STI, model years 2008 onwards, is the sole Subaru that has the ability to defeat VDC entirely without pulling a fuse)

    In your case, that meant killing the fun of getting the rear-end around. Might wanna look into what fuses may be able to disable the VDC entirely, but I would consult the advice of an expert before attempting that.


    Subaru didn't mess up the drive train...(or did they?) In your case, the VDC just seems too intrusive for you. Maybe a rear LSD may help get the car more spirited once you find a way to disable VDC?
    I've seen a lot of engines do this for emissions. Sorta like, it's trying to burn off the unburned gas in deceleration.

  74. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    I've seen a lot of engines do this for emissions. Sorta like, it's trying to burn off the unburned gas in deceleration.
    What unburned gas? Injectors shut off when your car is coasting and just using engine compression. Modern engines are very good in this regard, in that they don't put fuel into the cylinders that isn't going to be burned (except during start/warmup, which has other methods to help alleviate this).
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  75. #175
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    I think your car is effed,boudy- I've been in plenty of manual Subarus with the VDC turned off and it does not rob power, and I've been able to rock the car back and forth in the snow. They didn't really screw up the drivetrain, as it's been largely unchanged for about a decade now. I think you should get that looked at.

    One thing- when you tried rocking the car, was the engine still warming up? They intially idle at like 1500 for a while.
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  76. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    I think your car is effed,boudy- I've been in plenty of manual Subarus with the VDC turned off and it does not rob power, and I've been able to rock the car back and forth in the snow. They didn't really screw up the drivetrain, as it's been largely unchanged for about a decade now. I think you should get that looked at.

    One thing- when you tried rocking the car, was the engine still warming up? They intially idle at like 1500 for a while.
    My 09 appears to turn off ... my 02 doesn't have it and is all about power-slides on national forest roads.

  77. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    I think your car is effed,boudy- I've been in plenty of manual Subarus with the VDC turned off and it does not rob power, and I've been able to rock the car back and forth in the snow. They didn't really screw up the drivetrain, as it's been largely unchanged for about a decade now. I think you should get that looked at.

    One thing- when you tried rocking the car, was the engine still warming up? They intially idle at like 1500 for a while.
    I was thinking something similar. I have a 2013 Impreza and in the snow with vdc off I can do donuts and drifts all day long. Even some powerslides with enough space. The VDC does turn on at extreme angles but doesn't really straighten out the car, its more like its trying to keep the donut in check and prevent a complete spin, at least I think that's what I felt (brakes grabbing on the side going into the slide. Either way it takes some pretty extreme angles to get it to kick in and engine rpm's were not affected at all, in fact it sat happily around 5 or 6k rpm and spun like crazy. I'm not sure if the programming for the Crosstrek is different, but I wouldn't imagine it would differ greatly.

  78. #178
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    Invisible Hitch from Torklift!

    They are making a hitch that utilizes the knock-out on the rear bumper. you can replace the knock out cover when not in use. pretty sweet!

    Torklift Central Eco-Hitch Invisi 2" Subaru XV Crosstrek Trailer Hitch | Torklift Central

    Installation video:

    2013 Subaru XV Crosstrek Invisi/Hidden Ecohitch Trailer Hitch Installation-Torklift Central - YouTube

  79. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by summud View Post
    They are making a hitch that utilizes the knock-out on the rear bumper. you can replace the knock out cover when not in use. pretty sweet!

    Torklift Central Eco-Hitch Invisi 2" Subaru XV Crosstrek Trailer Hitch | Torklift Central

    Installation video:

    2013 Subaru XV Crosstrek Invisi/Hidden Ecohitch Trailer Hitch Installation-Torklift Central - YouTube
    Nice find. Too bad I just bought a Curt hitch, on the upside it was $100 cheaper.

  80. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by summud View Post
    They are making a hitch that utilizes the knock-out on the rear bumper. you can replace the knock out cover when not in use. pretty sweet!

    Torklift Central Eco-Hitch Invisi 2" Subaru XV Crosstrek Trailer Hitch | Torklift Central

    Installation video:

    2013 Subaru XV Crosstrek Invisi/Hidden Ecohitch Trailer Hitch Installation-Torklift Central - YouTube
    OK...here's my question. Where the f@$% do you put the retaining pin at? Get on your hands and knees, or possibly on your back just to insert a pin? Don't get me wrong...its very sweet, but I'd be happy if it stuck out of the hole and allowed me to insert a pin like normal.

  81. #181
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    Ours arrived at the dealership on Thurs. Picking it up this AM!!! Psyched!!!

  82. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by in the trees View Post
    Ours arrived at the dealership on Thurs. Picking it up this AM!!! Psyched!!!
    Congrats it is an awesome car. What model did you get and any extra add-ons? Post up a pic or two.

  83. #183
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    Why not get the 2014 Forester instead?

    I was pretty interested in getting a Crosstrek to replace my 1997 Honda Fit. The Crosstrek only gets 2-3 miles less per gallon than the Fit. I was nearly sold on the Crosstrek until I started looking at the 2014 Forester. The Forester starts at nearly the same price as a Crosstrek, and gets almost as good mpg (24/32 vs 25/33.) They have alot more space inside for passengers and cargo. The Forester has the same ground clearance as the Crosstrek.

    So what does the Crosstrek have going for it over the Forester? Is it style? Do you think the Crosstrek will offer a better driving experience than a 2.0 Forester? Do they use the same type AWD system, or is the Crosstrek better in dicey conditions?

    I'm not trolling, I really want to hear what people think when comparing the Crosstrek to a 2014 Forester? The upper end Foresters get expensive, but the base ($23,800) and premium ($25,800) 2.0 Foresters with CVT are the same price as the premium and limited Crosstrek.
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  84. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch View Post
    I was pretty interested in getting a Crosstrek to replace my 1997 Honda Fit. The Crosstrek only gets 2-3 miles less per gallon than the Fit. I was nearly sold on the Crosstrek until I started looking at the 2014 Forester. The Forester starts at nearly the same price as a Crosstrek, and gets almost as good mpg (24/32 vs 25/33.) They have alot more space inside for passengers and cargo. The Forester has the same ground clearance as the Crosstrek.

    So what does the Crosstrek have going for it over the Forester? Is it style? Do you think the Crosstrek will offer a better driving experience than a 2.0 Forester? Do they use the same type AWD system, or is the Crosstrek better in dicey conditions?

    I'm not trolling, I really want to hear what people think when comparing the Crosstrek to a 2014 Forester? The upper end Foresters get expensive, but the base ($23,800) and premium ($25,800) 2.0 Foresters with CVT are the same price as the premium and limited Crosstrek.
    There are a few differences.

    One, the size. Now both are compact vehicles, but the Forester offers more space, and a larger engine. (The XV has the 148HP FB20, the Forester has the 170HP FB25). However, the XV is lighter which means it may be able to handle better than the Forester.

    Both have the same AWD systems. The AWD system you get depends on your transmission choice. (Continuous AWD for manual transmission, Active AWD for CVT Lineartronic).
    If you want a manual transmission, the Forester might be better as it has a 6-speed manual, rather than the XV's old 5-speed manual.

    The XV has an advantage in urban maneuvering over the Forester as it is smaller. If you live in an urban area, the XV would be better for parking. If you don't worry much about size for parking, go for the Forester.

    However, one key advantage the non-turbo Forester may have over the XV is Subaru's newly-developed X-MODE. It's a mode for the VDC, CVT, and other related-systems to work together in harmony for low-traction situations (such as off-roading, snow, etc), in addition to having a hill-descent control.


    Here's a video of a Subaru of America representative elaborating about the new X-MODE

    2014 Subaru Forester: Everything you wanted to know about the car and the new X-Mode AWD - YouTube

  85. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch View Post
    I was pretty interested in getting a Crosstrek to replace my 1997 Honda Fit. The Crosstrek only gets 2-3 miles less per gallon than the Fit. I was nearly sold on the Crosstrek until I started looking at the 2014 Forester. The Forester starts at nearly the same price as a Crosstrek, and gets almost as good mpg (24/32 vs 25/33.) They have alot more space inside for passengers and cargo. The Forester has the same ground clearance as the Crosstrek.

    So what does the Crosstrek have going for it over the Forester? Is it style? Do you think the Crosstrek will offer a better driving experience than a 2.0 Forester? Do they use the same type AWD system, or is the Crosstrek better in dicey conditions?

    I'm not trolling, I really want to hear what people think when comparing the Crosstrek to a 2014 Forester? The upper end Foresters get expensive, but the base ($23,800) and premium ($25,800) 2.0 Foresters with CVT are the same price as the premium and limited Crosstrek.

    Welcome to my dilemma.
    Oh noes. I'm going to drink the Kool-Aid.

  86. #186
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    I can't comment on the Forester, but my XV drives more like a car than an SUV. That may turn out to be the biggest difference between the two. One as more of a tall car and the other is a mid-size SUV. If you're in no rush I would wait it out so you can compare the two. You can't go wrong either way.

  87. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech420 View Post
    Congrats it is an awesome car. What model did you get and any extra add-ons? Post up a pic or two.
    No pics yet....but Limited loaded - sunroof, Nav, all-weather mats, wheel locals, Homelink, bumper cover. Very nice car!

  88. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by AWDfreak View Post
    There are a few differences.

    One, the size. Now both are compact vehicles, but the Forester offers more space, and a larger engine. (The XV has the 148HP FB20, the Forester has the 170HP FB25). However, the XV is lighter which means it may be able to handle better than the Forester.

    Both have the same AWD systems. The AWD system you get depends on your transmission choice. (Continuous AWD for manual transmission, Active AWD for CVT Lineartronic).
    If you want a manual transmission, the Forester might be better as it has a 6-speed manual, rather than the XV's old 5-speed manual.

    The XV has an advantage in urban maneuvering over the Forester as it is smaller. If you live in an urban area, the XV would be better for parking. If you don't worry much about size for parking, go for the Forester.

    However, one key advantage the non-turbo Forester may have over the XV is Subaru's newly-developed X-MODE. It's a mode for the VDC, CVT, and other related-systems to work together in harmony for low-traction situations (such as off-roading, snow, etc), in addition to having a hill-descent control.


    Here's a video of a Subaru of America representative elaborating about the new X-MODE

    2014 Subaru Forester: Everything you wanted to know about the car and the new X-Mode AWD - YouTube
    X-MODE, previously known as viscous differentials, low range and driver skill. All no longer required.

  89. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Bringer View Post
    X-MODE, previously known as viscous differentials, low range and driver skill. All no longer required.
    Yeah, seems Subaru doesn't want to bother with installing the viscous limited-slip differentials anymore.. I also wish we could get the low-range manual gearboxes too...

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    The times, they are a'changin'. I would prefer mechanical diffs, but the electronic aids are advancing in such a way that it is simply cheaper to have the electronics take over. At least I assume this is the case when I saw the rear LSD's disappearing from Outbacks and such around '09 when VDC was standardized on all models.
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  91. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Bringer View Post
    X-MODE, previously known as viscous differentials, low range and driver skill. All no longer required.
    Yup, keep dumbing down the driver. Can't let driving the car interfere with an all important phone call or text message.

    Just wait until all of this electronic ******** starts showing up on bicycles (ABS, traction control, ...).
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    Seems like the Crosstrek will drive more like a Forester than an Impreza anyway because of the increased ride height? I still don't like the loss of HP and engine displacement. Our 09 Impreza blows the doors off our Forester since it's lighter and still has 170 HP; handling is better too with way less body lean. Are all the new model going to be made in the USA?

  93. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch View Post
    I was pretty interested in getting a Crosstrek to replace my 1997 Honda Fit. The Crosstrek only gets 2-3 miles less per gallon than the Fit. I was nearly sold on the Crosstrek until I started looking at the 2014 Forester. The Forester starts at nearly the same price as a Crosstrek, and gets almost as good mpg (24/32 vs 25/33.) They have alot more space inside for passengers and cargo. The Forester has the same ground clearance as the Crosstrek.

    So what does the Crosstrek have going for it over the Forester? Is it style? Do you think the Crosstrek will offer a better driving experience than a 2.0 Forester? Do they use the same type AWD system, or is the Crosstrek better in dicey conditions?

    I'm not trolling, I really want to hear what people think when comparing the Crosstrek to a 2014 Forester? The upper end Foresters get expensive, but the base ($23,800) and premium ($25,800) 2.0 Foresters with CVT are the same price as the premium and limited Crosstrek.
    This is a similar situation I was in a few months ago choosing between the Forester and Outback. Outback had much bigger rear storage and fit our family better. MPG was nearly identical (Outback was actually better at 30MPG), so looking at it from that standpoint, it didn't make sense to go with the Forester. From a financial perspective, the Outback was $2-3k more, but we felt it was worth it.

    Between the Crosstrek and Forester, I think it highly depends on your situation. Do you need the extra room? Do you have kids/family? If not, I'd pick the Crosstrek. Cheaper, lighter/nimble, and (IMO) cooler looking. But if you need the room (now or in the near future), the Forester is the better choice. I really like the headroom and the front driver's and passenger room feels bigger due to the higher roof (like vaulted ceilings). Heavier than Crosstrek, yes, but that also has advantages. It rides better on-road due to the extra heft, which helps on longer trips. Granted I haven't driven the Crosstrek, but if it's anything like my sister's Impreza, it does have the small car feel to it and longer road trips did take more of a toll on the body.

    Size wise, I really can't see a scenario where the Crosstrek would fit and Forester wouldn't. Even in an urban setting. I don't think this would be an issue either way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Seems like the Crosstrek will drive more like a Forester than an Impreza anyway because of the increased ride height? I still don't like the loss of HP and engine displacement. Our 09 Impreza blows the doors off our Forester since it's lighter and still has 170 HP; handling is better too with way less body lean. Are all the new model going to be made in the USA?
    I promise you that the XV is almost imperceptibly different from the normal Impreza in driving- I was shocked at how little body roll there is. The main difference is the feel of the tires, as the XV is on 17" Geolandars like the Foresters. But seriously, it handles way more like an Impreza than a Forester.
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    I promise you that the XV is almost imperceptibly different from the normal Impreza in driving- I was shocked at how little body roll there is. The main difference is the feel of the tires, as the XV is on 17" Geolandars like the Foresters. But seriously, it handles way more like an Impreza than a Forester.
    That's good to here, how about the power loss over the older units?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    That's good to here, how about the power loss over the older units?
    Absolutely blown out of proportion! People were just looking at the drop of HP from 170 to 148, yet for some reason nobody mentions that the new car is actually slightly faster than the 08-11 Imprezas, or that the 12+ weigh like 150-180 lbs less than the 08-11. It's stupid, every time I see someone whine about that on the internet I bang my head on the desk.

    Now, yeah, it would have been sweet if they kept the 170 hp on the 12+ cars with the less weight and such, but they wanted fuel economy, so to increase fuel economy by a full 30% while not making the car slower is quite a nice balance, methinks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    Absolutely blown out of proportion! People were just looking at the drop of HP from 170 to 148, yet for some reason nobody mentions that the new car is actually slightly faster than the 08-11 Imprezas, or that the 12+ weigh like 150-180 lbs less than the 08-11. It's stupid, every time I see someone whine about that on the internet I bang my head on the desk.

    Now, yeah, it would have been sweet if they kept the 170 hp on the 12+ cars with the less weight and such, but they wanted fuel economy, so to increase fuel economy by a full 30% while not making the car slower is quite a nice balance, methinks.
    That's nice to hear, I haven't driven one and wanted to know. I have two growing boys, so it'll be Outback next time anyway for us. I like my 09 and 02 for the time being and will drive them until they blow. We average 28 mpg on the 09 Impreza, no way the new ones have an extra 30 percent on that as it would be 36 overall.

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    ^ For the normal Impreza, the highway on the automatic went from 27 to 36. Most people get like 38ish at 70mph.

    City driving went from 20 on the 08-11 to 27 on the 12+. I haven't really paid attention to what people typically get in pure city driving, as usually the people worried about fuel economy drive mostly highway.

    For you to be getting an average of 28 on your 09 is really good- do you do mostly highway/backroads?

    In any event, going from 27 to 36 is a 30% increase, without even factoring in that the highway average on the 2012+ are rather underrated. And that is awesome.
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    ^ For the normal Impreza, the highway on the automatic went from 27 to 36. Most people get like 38ish at 70mph.

    City driving went from 20 on the 08-11 to 27 on the 12+. I haven't really paid attention to what people typically get in pure city driving, as usually the people worried about fuel economy drive mostly highway.

    For you to be getting an average of 28 on your 09 is really good- do you do mostly highway/backroads?

    In any event, going from 27 to 36 is a 30% increase, without even factoring in that the highway average on the 2012+ are rather underrated. And that is awesome.
    I never learned how to drive an automatic. We get 28 with a 50/50 mix of driving. Our 02 Forrester is much worse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    I never learned how to drive an automatic. We get 28 with a 50/50 mix of driving. Our 02 Forrester is much worse.
    Just as a reference point of how much more efficient these new cars are, we're getting 27MPG on our bloated Outback, mixed driving. Highway-only returns 33MPG. We get slightly better MPG's than lowlander folks (I'm at 4500 ft elev) due to leaner burning engines and less air resistence.

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