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  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    This car is pretty darn capable and quick around town so it is a good package.

    If you like to drive fast, live in high elevation where engines suck or need to do a lot of passing on country roads, then a turbo option would be nice. Maybe put that Subaru BRZ engine in it.
    Actually, the direct-injection motor from the BRZ would be a wise addition. This would provide even better fuel economy.
    Oh noes. I'm going to drink the Kool-Aid.

  2. #227
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    Subaru XV Crosstrek

    Quote Originally Posted by JustMtnB44 View Post
    Thanks for the review francois. This does look like a really good car for mountain bikers. How is the handling on paved roads? Is it noticeably worse than an Impreza due to the increased ground clearance, or not bad? Is it still fun to drive on twisty mountain roads?

    I haven't driven one yet, but I think for now I will have to agree with the needs a turbo comment. Coming from an Audi allroad with a 320hp V8, a 150hp 4 cylinder is not going to feel very inspired, even if it does weigh 1000lbs less. Maybe that will be an option in the future? However the XV is rated at basically double the mpg's I currently get in the allroad, so maybe it's a worthwhile tradeoff. But the Forester XT still gets decent mpg's as well.
    I'd like a comparison too. I have a Forester and Impreza - the Impreza out handles the taller car no problem. The Forester has zero percent interest right now as an FYI. I happen to like free money a lot!

  3. #228
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    Here's the off road capabilities.
    Driving Sports TV - 2013 Subaru XV Crosstrek Tropical Test and Review - YouTube

    Should be better than most SUVs!!!

    Ride quality on the street is good. Same as any other car. I don't think they increased the travel or firmed up the suspension.

    Handling is awesome. There's a bit of tire squeal at the limit but the car is composed.

  4. #229
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    The handling is shockingly similar to a normal Impreza Sport. I daresay one can notice the Geolandars more than they can notice the suspension changes over a normal Impreza.
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  5. #230
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    Subaru XV Crosstrek

    Subaru has a history of noisy OEM tires for sure, good news about the handling. If my Subarus ever wear out, I may have to check one out.

  6. #231
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    Considering it's the same wheel and tire size as the Forester, I'm curious to see if some General Grabbers would fit. Not that they would be my choice if I had an XV, but they'd probably look pretty *****in'
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  7. #232
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    Aren't they all direct injection these days... like since 2005? I mean, that is a big gas saver and emissions saver.

    Quote Originally Posted by jcaino View Post
    Actually, the direct-injection motor from the BRZ would be a wise addition. This would provide even better fuel economy.

  8. #233
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    Here's a better one... and with a Manual transmission:



    Wow... I gotta say, I'm impressed.

    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Here's the off road capabilities.
    Driving Sports TV - 2013 Subaru XV Crosstrek Tropical Test and Review - YouTube

    Should be better than most SUVs!!!

    Ride quality on the street is good. Same as any other car. I don't think they increased the travel or firmed up the suspension.

    Handling is awesome. There's a bit of tire squeal at the limit but the car is composed.

  9. #234
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    Subaru XV Crosstrek

    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    Here's a better one... and with a Manual transmission:

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/H1ZkZU85sE0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    Wow... I gotta say, I'm impressed.
    Not too bad ... although it could take a lot more. The color would even match one of my bikes.

  10. #235
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    Re: Subaru XV Crosstrek

    Putting a deposit down on an orange limited tomorrow. Dealer said it'll be about 30 days. Pretty stoked. I needed good gas mileage, ground clearance and decent cargo space. I think this'll be a great car.
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  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    Putting a deposit down on an orange limited tomorrow. Dealer said it'll be about 30 days. Pretty stoked. I needed good gas mileage, ground clearance and decent cargo space. I think this'll be a great car.
    uhhhh....I wouldn't bank on that 30 day estimate. We ordered ours on Jan 5 and still do not have the call that it's arrived in Seattle.

    unless your dealer is getting you one that's already here and shipping it from another Subaru dealer.

  12. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    uhhhh....I wouldn't bank on that 30 day estimate. We ordered ours on Jan 5 and still do not have the call that it's arrived in Seattle.
    Might depend upon location. Local dealer in Albuquerque NM had 5 of them over the past two weeks. Went into look at the XV as we are considering replacing a SUV with something utilitarian yet fuel efficient.

  13. #238
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    Re: Subaru XV Crosstrek

    Yeah. They are pouring in to Utah. I've already test driven several and I'm getting one that the dealer already had on order. It's not a special order. He seemed to think 30 days was a generous estimate.
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  14. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    Aren't they all direct injection these days... like since 2005? I mean, that is a big gas saver and emissions saver.
    On the one hand, Subaru offers AWD cars and some of their stuff is pretty dead reliable, impressive especially when considering how many moving parts they got and the extra driveshafts/differentials.

    On the other hand, they are often one of the last to entertain new technologys.

    4EAT? Seriously? That should have been gone at least 5 years ago, if not more.

    Tiny TD04 turbo for so long, shoulda been using something a little bigger and giving the WRX a good bump like it finally got in 2009, took way too long to get to that point though. The power issue is one where they seem to fail across multiple fronts. Effectively about 250hp for the LGT models? That's kind of pathetic given today's cars with 300hp V6s, and the Subarus are losing a lot more of their power to parasitic drivetrain losses due to the AWD. Same thing with the WRX and even STi. Sure, you can launch from a standstill faster than nearly everything else, which is hugely bad for your transmission and drivetrain, but if you ever try to hang with something that only has to send 300hp to two wheels you'll be smoked. The handling is good, but they should have been following the natural progression of technology and embracing:

    twin-scroll turbos (available in JDM market)

    Direct Injection

    High compression normally aspirated engines with advanced timing controls.

    Minimum of 6spd auto and manual transmissions for LGT models.

    So while I love the cars and will likely get another one at some point in the future, there are weak points too and subaru could do with better R&D/application of technology. The BRZ is a good example of what they can do if willing. All too often much of the good-stuff never makes it to the US market, but it exists in the JDM.
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  15. #240
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    Subaru XV Crosstrek

    So whats the real world gas mileage from owners in this thread? We're looking to potentially replace our 06 civic.
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  16. #241
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    Curious about this as well. Getting the new car bug and this is on my list.
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  17. #242
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    How are the CVT transmissions? I love every aspect of this car except the dreaded CVT transmission that 90% of new cars are getting....

    I know Fords and Nissans with CVT's commonly have problems before 100k and are very costly to fix ($4k-5k according to my neighbor and his ford freestyle).

    Don't really feel like getting the manual and dealing with chicagoland traffic either...
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  18. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    On the one hand, Subaru offers AWD cars and some of their stuff is pretty dead reliable, impressive especially when considering how many moving parts they got and the extra driveshafts/differentials.

    On the other hand, they are often one of the last to entertain new technologys.

    4EAT? Seriously? That should have been gone at least 5 years ago, if not more.

    Tiny TD04 turbo for so long, shoulda been using something a little bigger and giving the WRX a good bump like it finally got in 2009, took way too long to get to that point though. The power issue is one where they seem to fail across multiple fronts. Effectively about 250hp for the LGT models? That's kind of pathetic given today's cars with 300hp V6s, and the Subarus are losing a lot more of their power to parasitic drivetrain losses due to the AWD. Same thing with the WRX and even STi. Sure, you can launch from a standstill faster than nearly everything else, which is hugely bad for your transmission and drivetrain, but if you ever try to hang with something that only has to send 300hp to two wheels you'll be smoked. The handling is good, but they should have been following the natural progression of technology and embracing:

    twin-scroll turbos (available in JDM market)

    Direct Injection

    High compression normally aspirated engines with advanced timing controls.

    Minimum of 6spd auto and manual transmissions for LGT models.

    So while I love the cars and will likely get another one at some point in the future, there are weak points too and subaru could do with better R&D/application of technology. The BRZ is a good example of what they can do if willing. All too often much of the good-stuff never makes it to the US market, but it exists in the JDM.
    There is that much drag for the AWD? They're pretty much doing the same thing as Audi/VW, layout-wise. On the VAG B chassis cars (Passat, A4, A5, Q5, Quantum, Audi 80/90, Skoda Octavia) and they only get 1mpg hit for the AWD versions (EPA estimates) over the FWD versions of their cars. It only adds 150 pounds to the whole system. Then again, they are using low drag roller bearings on everything inside the gearbox, and using roller bearing style CV Joints everywhere outside except the propeller shaft (which is only there to allow some chassis flex), and maybe Subaru isn't doing that.

    The A chassis cars use a viscous coupling on the older cars (pre 1998), or a Haldex clutch on the newer cars.

    I can't imagine Subaru is doing anything much different.

    Point is, I think the AWD is a very minimal efficiency suck. Of course, you can't compare it to anything. The only 2WD Subaru in recent memory is the BRZ.

    With the impressive efficiency numbers on the 2.0 Subaru VX engine, I would be surprised if they weren't using direct injection. Geez, even Nissan has direct injection on their $12k Versa.

    Quote Originally Posted by HondaMotocross View Post
    How are the CVT transmissions? I love every aspect of this car except the dreaded CVT transmission that 90% of new cars are getting....

    I know Fords and Nissans with CVT's commonly have problems before 100k and are very costly to fix ($4k-5k according to my neighbor and his ford freestyle).

    Don't really feel like getting the manual and dealing with chicagoland traffic either...
    The CVT Audi A4/B6 on the FWD cars (2002-2005) was a disaster. Those things failed at 80k like clockwork. They run them on the Prius and Highlander, and they seem to be holding up just fine. I personally have two friends with 120k+ mile Priuses (Prii?) with no issues.

    It's probably too soon to tell for Subaru, but they are usually pretty durable in the drivetrain department... unless you're a 20 year old driving a WRX trying to impress your friends with AWD burnout clutch dumps.
    Last edited by pimpbot; 02-27-2013 at 08:04 PM.

  19. #244
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    Yes, there is absolutely that much drag for an AWD system like subaru that is fully engaged. Have you ever tried to run with something like a bmw 328 on the highway? They'll smoke a "230hp" WRX because they are putting much more power to the drive wheels. Those WRXs were lucky to dyno 170hp to the wheels, sometimes less. That's a huge loss and typical. STIs dynoed around 230 or so stock, again, to the wheels. That's the real difference right there.

    I think you were quoting those figures a few years back and the entire audi car is on the heavy side, WRXs are around 3200lbs or so, anything crosstrek, impreza or forester wise isn't going to be far from that range. Some cars are geared differently too, some are shorter for more acceleration, some are longer to allow for lower RPMs when cruising, and so on. There's unlikely to be excessive magic going on here, but the point was that subaru doesn't embrace technology all that well. 6spd transmissions should be standard for just about everything they have, and 7spds in the LGT auto models. They kind of get by with their 5000rpm clutch drops for the 0-60 figures though, so at lower speeds they can be quick.
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  20. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Yes, there is absolutely that much drag for an AWD system like subaru that is fully engaged. Have you ever tried to run with something like a bmw 328 on the highway? They'll smoke a "230hp" WRX because they are putting much more power to the drive wheels. Those WRXs were lucky to dyno 170hp to the wheels, sometimes less. That's a huge loss and typical. STIs dynoed around 230 or so stock, again, to the wheels. That's the real difference right there.

    I think you were quoting those figures a few years back and the entire audi car is on the heavy side, WRXs are around 3200lbs or so, anything crosstrek, impreza or forester wise isn't going to be far from that range. Some cars are geared differently too, some are shorter for more acceleration, some are longer to allow for lower RPMs when cruising, and so on. There's unlikely to be excessive magic going on here, but the point was that subaru doesn't embrace technology all that well. 6spd transmissions should be standard for just about everything they have, and 7spds in the LGT auto models. They kind of get by with their 5000rpm clutch drops for the 0-60 figures though, so at lower speeds they can be quick.
    My B6 Audi A4 quattro 5speed manual sedan weighs in at 3400 pounds. My wife's B5 A4 Avant 5 speed manual (all Avants have Quattro) is 3300 pounds, so it's right on par with the WRX. FWIU, the automatic adds 100 pounds, adn the V6 version another 100 pounds.

    The A4 Quattro system is fully engaged all the time (on the B5-B7 with a Torsen center diff, on B8 and later cars with a variable open diff with a clutch lock-up), not that it really makes a difference in drag. The clutch based systems (like on the A3) are always turning too. The rear wheels will turn the driveshafts, rear diff, and propeller shaft whether or not the center clutch (to engage the AWD) is closed or open. So, as long as the car is moving, the motor is still turning the rear driveline... it's just connected by road and tires instead of directly, so it is still using the same energy.

    Heh... somehow, I thought WRXs were lighter. They're quite a bit smaller, but I know they make those bodies super stiff and very crash worthy. There's a lot of 14ga steel in those things. I read somewhere that Subaru actually sends special instructions out to first responders to show them how to cut through the car bodies to cut people out in a bad crash.
    Last edited by pimpbot; 02-27-2013 at 11:48 PM.

  21. #246
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    Subaru XV Crosstrek

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Yes, there is absolutely that much drag for an AWD system like subaru that is fully engaged. Have you ever tried to run with something like a bmw 328 on the highway? They'll smoke a "230hp" WRX because they are putting much more power to the drive wheels. Those WRXs were lucky to dyno 170hp to the wheels, sometimes less. That's a huge loss and typical. STIs dynoed around 230 or so stock, again, to the wheels. That's the real difference right there.

    I think you were quoting those figures a few years back and the entire audi car is on the heavy side, WRXs are around 3200lbs or so, anything crosstrek, impreza or forester wise isn't going to be far from that range. Some cars are geared differently too, some are shorter for more acceleration, some are longer to allow for lower RPMs when cruising, and so on. There's unlikely to be excessive magic going on here, but the point was that subaru doesn't embrace technology all that well. 6spd transmissions should be standard for just about everything they have, and 7spds in the LGT auto models. They kind of get by with their 5000rpm clutch drops for the 0-60 figures though, so at lower speeds they can be quick.
    I bet I can give the BMW a run for the money on dirt, otherwise known as the Subaru's preferred terrain. I also bet the BMW could not handle the beatings I give my cars in the national forest.

  22. #247
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    Subaru XV Crosstrek

    Wrx's are quick for their hp levels....I don't know what this dude is talking about. The 227hp models run low 14's. show me another car with that much weight and that little hp running that. The new ones are mid 13 cars.
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  23. #248
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    Go look at the passing times and compare to other cars, that really tells the tale. The WRX is fun and fast at low speeds, but the drag and lack of hp really affects them at high speed, to really see this, look up the 0-60 time from a roll, very telling. I think these cars are practically fast, vs some others that can go 200mph and there's nowhere to drive that illegally, but again, the WRX and Subaru times are due to awd and clutch drops or brake+gas for the auto models. I know, I owned a "227hp" model for 5 years, modded for 280-300hp. At low speed I could easily outrun a 300hp v8 mustang gt (previous generation), as speeds got past legal limits they'd start pulling ahead. Much more hp going to the rear wheels.

    http://www.modularfords.com/threads/174421-2011-Mustang-V6-Slower-than-2011-WRX

    This is the 265hp WRX no less.

    There's also a good article on a V6 Camry vs the WRX, showing the Camry is just as fast, if not faster. Do the searches and you'll see.

  24. #249
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    Subaru XV Crosstrek

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Go look at the passing times and compare to other cars, that really tells the tale. The WRX is fun and fast at low speeds, but the drag and lack of hp really affects them at high speed, to really see this, look up the 0-60 time from a roll, very telling. I think these cars are practically fast, vs some others that can go 200mph and there's nowhere to drive that illegally, but again, the WRX and Subaru times are due to awd and clutch drops or brake+gas for the auto models. I know, I owned a "227hp" model for 5 years, modded for 280-300hp. At low speed I could easily outrun a 300hp v8 mustang gt (previous generation), as speeds got past legal limits they'd start pulling ahead. Much more hp going to the rear wheels.http://www.modularfords.com/threads/...-than-2011-WRX

    This is the 265hp WRX no less.

    There's also a good article on a V6 Camry vs the WRX, showing the Camry is just as fast, if not faster. Do the searches and you'll see.
    What happens when you go around a corner? Does that 1950s rear end hinder the Ford?

  25. #250
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    Subaru XV Crosstrek

    This should probably all be in the subaru general thread instead of the xv thread
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